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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread | The Wild Ride is still on!

Oct 27, 2017
11,351
I'm not sure that Disney would be eager to let a character they own, one associated with their family-friendly brand by his very conception, cross over with characters from primarily M-rated series like Metal Gear, Bayonetta, or Persona.
Sora appears in a game with Jack Sparrow. Being associated even slightly with Johnny Depp should be seen as far worse than Snake, Bayonetta, or Joker.
 
Dec 4, 2017
1,193
Going to go on a limb and say we won't get Joker until the first Nintendo Direct (which I imagine won't be until late February/early March). If this is indeed the case, then Nintendo will no doubt reveal the second fighter at the end of their Smash segment.

(Reckon that'll be Erdrick.)
Why would the Direct be in February/March when there’s hardly any games announced for February/March?

Also, Erdrick is too predictable of a choice.

So you think the January Direct will be another mini one?
Doubt it. If there was one, we probably would have gotten one yesterday on YouTube.
Probably, unless there's some rumour/leak that I have missed?

Unlike last year we don't really have anything for Jan/Feb aside from Mario Bros. U DX (?)
That’s why we’re due for a General Direct this month.
 
Jan 8, 2019
24
When people talk about Erdrick's rights being problematic, what they're really talking about are the music rights to Dragon Quest. The DQ composer owns the rights to the DQ music. And he's an asshole (to put it mildly).
Yeah, 2/3rds of DQ's rights-holders probably don't care at all and would be happy to see the franchise get exposure in just about anything.

If it came to it, they'd probably just use the recurring tracks that they have for spinoff games that they seem to be able to use freely, but... who knows.
I'm willing to bet that if Nintendo really wants Erdrick, they would still take him without the accompanying music, which would be sad, but I don't think that would completely put a halt on things. They would just have to find a different way to fill those music slots.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,001
Again, I don't know why everyone assumes DQ is going to be full of rights fuckery when Nintendo has literally done multiple DQ crossovers with Nintendo IP (Mario) before. I have also yet to see anyone explain why Sugiyama would deny the use of DQ music in Smash beyond "he's a dick so obviously he will put up a fight". Why would he care? He'll get free money for letting them reuse the same MIDIs they use in Heroes, Builders, and the mobile remakes. Getting DQ on board would be far easier than getting Disney of all companies to play ball.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,333
The guy who datamined / modded Brave's stats said this the other day


And I laughed it off at first but then I realized that "Valor Form" is literally called "Brave Form" in Japanese

Whoops
It seems kind of weird to me though. I'd assume the average speed and floatyness would be to make up for him using tons of spells and/or secondary weapons to differentiate himself from other sword characters, but if it's Sora we'd have a mostly melee focused character, who I'd expect to be faster.

There's also the lack of wall jumps. Unless there were some news correcting that?
 
Again, I don't know why everyone assumes DQ is going to be full of rights fuckery when Nintendo has literally done multiple DQ crossovers with Nintendo IP (Mario) before. I have also yet to see anyone explain why Sugiyama would deny the use of DQ music in Smash beyond "he's a dick so obviously he will put up a fight". Why would he care? He'll get free money for letting them reuse the same MIDIs they use in Heroes, Builders, and the mobile remakes. Getting DQ on board would be far easier than getting Disney of all companies to play ball.
Yeah I think a fair, realistic outcome would be a bunch of ripped music from various DQ games. Getting even one remix would be considered a miracle. At WORST it'll just be another FFVII deal.

It's really hard to say. Sugiyama reminds me of those really picky fan artists on Tumblr. You know the kind that are VERY particular on how their art is viewed. Watermarks plastered all over. And that's before his other crap.
 
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Jan 8, 2019
24
Again, I don't know why everyone assumes DQ is going to be full of rights fuckery when Nintendo has literally done multiple DQ crossovers with Nintendo IP (Mario) before. I have also yet to see anyone explain why Sugiyama would deny the use of DQ music in Smash beyond "he's a dick so obviously he will put up a fight". Why would he care? He'll get free money for letting them reuse the same MIDIs they use in Heroes, Builders, and the mobile remakes. Getting DQ on board would be far easier than getting Disney of all companies to play ball.
I'm also unsure about this, but tbh, I don't know much about the situation. Seems like some pretty easy cash for him though.

I'd be down for Brave being Sora. My stretch dream is still someone from Bravely Default, but I'll take almost anyone over DQ tbh.
Imagine they use the Bravely Default battle system to create a unique moveset.
Maybe it'd be something like Incineroar, where you can press down special and build up a number (up to 3 of course), and then you can choose to use side special to do a crazy multi-hit move, like Limit Cross Slash, but much better. Or you can choose to do up to 4 of your moves, one right after the other, no cooldown.

OR they could use the job system to make the character change "stance" by pressing neutral special, kinda like Shulk. Unfortunately, every job they add would create a whole lot more work. They'd probably just make the character's moves from a bunch of different classes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
587
I feel like people overstate how difficult Disney would be to work with when it comes to getting Sora in Smash.
They don't seem very strict, just very particular with who they chose to work with.

And I don't think you'd really run into the same issues with Square being stingy considering Disney only seems to care about getting Nomura's blessings with any thing KH related, not the entire company. I just don't see any real roadblocks if all parties are down for it.
 
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Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,337
Houston, TX
I feel like people overstate how difficult Disney would be to work with when it comes to getting Sora in Smash.
They don't seem very strict, just very particular with who they chose to work with.

And I don't think you'd really run into the same issues with Square being stingy considering Disney only seems to care about getting Nomura's blessings with any KH related, not the entire company. I just don't see any real roadblocks if all parties are down for it.
Like I said, I feel like the issue is more of keeping Sora on the eShop permanently than getting him in the first place. On the flip side, the biggest issue for Erdrick would be the music. That plus Nintendo has to gain more from marketing Dragon Quest.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,351
Again, I don't know why everyone assumes DQ is going to be full of rights fuckery when Nintendo has literally done multiple DQ crossovers with Nintendo IP (Mario) before. I have also yet to see anyone explain why Sugiyama would deny the use of DQ music in Smash beyond "he's a dick so obviously he will put up a fight". Why would he care? He'll get free money for letting them reuse the same MIDIs they use in Heroes, Builders, and the mobile remakes. Getting DQ on board would be far easier than getting Disney of all companies to play ball.
People just hate Sugiyama (for pretty justifiable reasons) and would rather he didn't get money for Smash Bros. That people would rather a giant soulless corporation (other than Nintendo and the 3rd party companies that made deals with) got that Smash money says pretty much everything that needs to be said.
 

PMS341

Banned
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,056
I feel like people overstate how difficult Disney would be to work with when it comes to getting Sora in Smash.
They don't seem very strict, just very particular with who they chose to work with.

And I don't think you'd really run into the same issues with Square being stingy considering Disney only seems to care about getting Nomura's blessings with any thing KH related, not the entire company. I just don't see any real roadblocks if all parties are down for it.


Very true
 
but if it's Sora we'd have a mostly melee focused character, who I'd expect to be faster.
Not really. I can see him working with tons of spells and Goofy/Donald borrewed special moves, which would make up for his melee attacks. Think something like Robin, which excels at specials but have some rather awkward and disappointing melee attacks, at least when not Levin'ed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,907
Again, I don't know why everyone assumes DQ is going to be full of rights fuckery when Nintendo has literally done multiple DQ crossovers with Nintendo IP (Mario) before.
Point me to a single Dragon Quest related crossover (with Nintendo preferably) that wasn't developed or produced by Square themselves. That's the key difference here, Square didn't offer Nintendo to use Dragon Quest before; Nintendo offered Square to use Mario.

Getting DQ on board would be far easier than getting Disney of all companies to play ball.
Citation needed. Bamco and Nintendo have produced and developed Disney related titles already.
 
May 22, 2018
1,795
I don't think it's likely, but I'd be down for Sora instead of Erdrick. He would prove the rumor fake and I happen to like KH more than DQ anyway. We'd probably get more (and better) music as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,360
If you're invoking Mahvel Infinite and all the Disney fuckery surrounding it, there's a core difference between it and Fortnite that made Disney more hands-off in what the licensee could do.

And it's the same reason for why NFL license uniforms made their way into Fortnite (a game with guns in it) while NFL Blitz got recurrently screwed-over by the NFL until Midway outright got stripped of the license.

Money Talks. Fortnite's in-the-money. Fighting Games and Arcade-Sports aren't.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,001
Point me to a single Dragon Quest related crossover (with Nintendo preferably) that wasn't developed or produced by Square themselves. That's the key difference here, Square didn't offer Nintendo to use Dragon Quest before; Nintendo offered Square to use Mario.

Citation needed. Bamco and Nintendo have produced and developed Disney related titles already.
Why shouldn't it work the other way around then? The two companies obviously have a good relationship.

As for Disney, I just don't see them finding the prospect of Sora in Smash to be particularly appealing. There's no KH game on a Nintendo system for him to promote and Smash itself is basically a big promotion of Nintendo IP, which is currently being developed into theme parks and movies that will rival Disney's. We've also seen that Sora's DLC inclusion in World of Final Fantasy was short-lived and not even included in the otherwise complete Switch port, which suggests licensing issues regarding the character. Meanwhile Square has multiple DQ games coming to Switch and a huge opportunity to significantly increase the series' popularity in the West, where Smash has already turned Fire Emblem from an absolute nobody into a massive money maker.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,907
If you're invoking Mahvel Infinite and all the Disney fuckery surrounding it, there's a core difference between it and Fortnite that made Disney more hands-off in what the licensee could do.

And it's the same reason for why NFL license uniforms made their way into Fortnite (a game with guns in it) while NFL Blitz got recurrently screwed-over by the NFL until Midway outright got stripped of the license.

Money Talks. Fortnite's in-the-money. Fighting Games and Arcade-Sports aren't.
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate blitzed 5 million copies sold in the first three days
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,360
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate blitzed 5 million copies sold in the first three days
That's pocket-change to gigantic corporations like Disney and the NFL.

Smash might be the biggest Fighting-Game, but a mere five-million in three days isn't enough to sit at and be taken seriously by the big-boys table that Media-Giants like Disney and the NFL eat at.

"1% of China" ring a bell?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,907
That's pocket-change to gigantic corporations like Disney and the NFL.

Smash might be the biggest Fighting-Game, but a mere five-million in three days isn't enough to sit at and be taken seriously by the big-boys table that Media-Giants like Disney and the NFL eat at.

"1% of China" ring a bell?
You're literally making some of the biggest nonsensical equivalents. By this token, they shouldn't be using the Kingdom Hearts properties for video games given that its lifetime series sales is only 25 million - a number which Smash Ultimate's LTD is potentially poised to get close to on it's own.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,606
That's pocket-change to gigantic corporations like Disney and the NFL.

Smash might be the biggest Fighting-Game, but a mere five-million in three days isn't enough to sit at and be taken seriously by the big-boys table that Media-Giants like Disney and the NFL eat at.

"1% of China" ring a bell?
Okay sure that kind of mentality would make sense if we were talking about a character with popularity and relevance like Thanos who Disney would be careful in curating for.

But we're talking about a star of a popular JRPG series that Disney barely does anything with beyond the collaboration with Square who has shown a more invested interest in the series.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,578
That's pocket-change to gigantic corporations like Disney and the NFL.

Smash might be the biggest Fighting-Game, but a mere five-million in three days isn't enough to sit at and be taken seriously by the big-boys table that Media-Giants like Disney and the NFL eat at.

"1% of China" ring a bell?
Disney had no problem licensing Wreck-It Ralph out to Sega for a racing game that sold only 1.36 million copies.

I don't think Sora will be DLC, but it's not because Disney said no.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,907
Anyway is there a place to see the Brave parameters? Haven't looked too much into them and I would like to see how one can see Sora with them
Thread with the data


Brave's stats pasted over Ike


I'm gonna guess one could come to the conclusion that Sora would fit given that whoever the character is seems a little bit loose and floaty. KH characters usually have a lot of aerial suspension.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,606
It's hard to make a conclusion one way or another with what we know.

I still think it's rash to say Brave is Erdrick or a Dragon Quest character when Joker's parameters were similarly vague and cryptic. I don't think they would make a codename that obvious but it's hard to say at this point.

Then again saying Sora makes sense because Sora has a Brave form in KH2 is also a bit of a stretch to me. But at the same time tying Jack to Joker probably would've seemed similarly insane too so what do I know
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,222
USA
Joker
Sora
Doomslayer
Travis Touchdown
And a Nintendo character from a game coming this year not announced yet

Characters you wouldn't necessarily expect. Sora wouldn't be expected because he's a big deal. Doom is violent and Western, Travis is violent and small stuff, a Nintendo character that's somewhat new would really not be expected.

Though I'm still sitting on Scorpion, Banjo, Erdrick, and Sylux. All fit similar parameters.
 
Jan 8, 2019
24
People just hate Sugiyama (for pretty justifiable reasons) and would rather he didn't get money for Smash Bros. That people would rather a giant soulless corporation (other than Nintendo and the 3rd party companies that made deals with) got that Smash money says pretty much everything that needs to be said.
I think it'd be nice for Nintendo to distance themselves from people like this, especially being an international company. Japanese companies do tolerate quite a lot that others may find unacceptable though, which is unfortunate.

But I shall speak no more on the topic, since it got a significant amount of attention when the "brave" codename got datamined.

Edit: I guess "global" company would be a better term.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,775
"Brave's" stats could easily be placeholders and in no way final, anyway.

And I can't believe people still think Orange_Justice_Thanos.gif is a mic drop in debating Disney licensing.
 
Jan 8, 2019
24
Do people assume that SE and Nintendo think the marketing from Smash will help DQ sell overseas? They'd pretty much be beating a dead horse at this point, wouldn't they?

Definitely can't deny the numbers that DLC would sell in Japan though. Might move a significant number of Smash copies too, tbh.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,409
Do people assume that SE and Nintendo think the marketing from Smash will help DQ sell overseas? They'd pretty much be beating a dead horse at this point, wouldn't they?

Definitely can't deny the numbers that DLC would sell in Japan though. Might move a significant number of Smash copies too, tbh.
Nintendo's been trying (and failing) to get Dragon Quest to catch on in the West for like twenty five years, why stop now.
 
Dec 11, 2018
63
Disney had no problem licensing Wreck-It Ralph out to Sega for a racing game that sold only 1.36 million copies.

I don't think Sora will be DLC, but it's not because Disney said no.
Just curious ryce, why don't you feel that sora won't be in? Tbh i personally feel that endrick is kind of a lock but sora doesnt feel too much of a stretch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,907
Just curious ryce, why don't you feel that sora won't be in? Tbh i personally feel that endrick is kind of a lock but sora doesnt feel too much of a stretch.
Personally the main reason I don't think Sora would make it in is because Nintendo wouldn't want him to be in. Despite the franchise having a history with Nintendo, Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't coming to Switch (though Square have expressed interest in eventually attempting to port it).

It comes down to a question of whether Nintendo would want to include a character to help promote a franchise they have involvement in (something they've admitted to wanting to do), which would be Dragon Quest, or including a character just for the sake of pushing some high sales numbers, which Sora/KH has the advantage of in terms of worldwide appeal. The former seems like the more likely scenario, irregardless of whatever "Brave" is a hint at, but nonetheless I don't wanna count out any possibility just yet.

The only thing that's worth contesting about Sora is the question of whether there'd be trouble negotiating him, and I don't buy it. Disney and Nintendo could 100% work out a good deal (assuming they have Square's blessing), they've worked together multiple times in the past on several exclusives and projects, and Disney is guaranteed to see the upside of having one of their titles receive an awareness boost by being included in a game/franchise that's much bigger. Sora isn't some sacred character here, and it's much more likely that a character like Wreck-It Ralph (who is part of a media franchise Disney commonly actually utilize outside of video games) had far more red tape to deal with when he was included in Sonic All-Stars Racing.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,578
I just think it makes a lot more sense for Nintendo to personally choose someone from Dragon Quest, a series they've had a direct hand in publishing. Dragon Quest XI S is coming to Switch this year, whereas Kingdom Hearts III is only coming to PS4 and Xbox One.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,337
Houston, TX
Joker
Sora
Doomslayer
Travis Touchdown
And a Nintendo character from a game coming this year not announced yet

Characters you wouldn't necessarily expect. Sora wouldn't be expected because he's a big deal. Doom is violent and Western, Travis is violent and small stuff, a Nintendo character that's somewhat new would really not be expected.

Though I'm still sitting on Scorpion, Banjo, Erdrick, and Sylux. All fit similar parameters.
But again, the problem with Scorpion is that his franchise is banned from being sold in Japan, thus making Mortal Kombat region-exclusive these days (& Smash has moved away from such characters post-Lucas). Unless Nintendo is funding a censored version of MK11 for Japan, I don’t see any reason why they’d choose a Mortal Kombat character.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,606
I don't think putting a character in Smash to promote XI S would matter at all. Especially if they're choosing Erdrick to appear in Smash.

Even saying Joker got in because there might be a port of Persona 5 is a stretch considering that if they want to use a character to promote an Atlus title then using an SMT character would make way more sense as there's SMTV which is an actual Switch exclusive.

Maybe they just want more exciting characters to a general public and that's why they would look at a character like Sora rather than putting in a character to advertise a port.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,578
I don't think putting a character in Smash to promote XI S would matter at all. Especially if they're choosing Erdrick to appear in Smash.

Even saying Joker got in because there might be a port of Persona 5 is a stretch considering that if they want to use a character to promote an Atlus title then using an SMT character would make way more sense as there's SMTV which is an actual Switch exclusive.

Maybe they just want more exciting characters to a general public and that's why they would look at a character like Sora rather than putting in a character to advertise a port.
Erdrick wouldn't directly advertise XI S; it's more about Dragon Quest being one of the most prolific third-party series in Nintendo history. Nintendo loves DQ, and they're the ones picking the characters.