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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread | The Wild Ride is still on!

Oct 29, 2017
1,353
USA
But again, the problem with Scorpion is that his franchise is banned from being sold in Japan, thus making Mortal Kombat region-exclusive these days (& Smash has moved away from such characters post-Lucas). Unless Nintendo is funding a censored version of MK11 for Japan, I don’t see any reason why they’d choose a Mortal Kombat character.
This is why I'm not entirely sure about Scorpion, but he's not entirely off my list. They're doing MK11 for Switch, and if WB wanted someone in they'd for sure have to go with the MK stuff. Having a call back to the original title being less violent could be done for both Japan and Smash, and be a good way for the series to grow bigger in Japan and other places where the hyper violence isn't so welcomed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
697
Honestly DQ would have been popular in the West by now if they'd stop fucking it up. Their big push with DQIX was a valiant effort, but at the end of the day a handheld game focused around local multiplayer was never going to be a smash hit like it was Japan because people in the West prefer to play online. So what did they do with their slam dunk sequel that would have offered full online multiplayer? Why, not localize it, of course!

And then you have the 3DS remakes where they literally made us get on our knees and beg like dogs for years-late ports. Embarrassing all around, but maybe the three-hit-combo of DQ in Smash + DQXIS + Builders 2 will be enough to get the series back on track over here, hopefully supplemented by localizations of DQX and the upcoming Monsters game.
DQ would be popular in the west if it wasn't just a least-common-denominator amalgam of boring JRPG tropes...intentional or not.

Although Builders is pretty fantastic, definitely picking up the sequel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
697
This is why I'm not entirely sure about Scorpion, but he's not entirely off my list. They're doing MK11 for Switch, and if WB wanted someone in they'd for sure have to go with the MK stuff. Having a call back to the original title being less violent could be done for both Japan and Smash, and be a good way for the series to grow bigger in Japan and other places where the hyper violence isn't so welcomed.
I'd prefer Scorpion but I think Sub-Zero has a pretty decent shot. It seems like it would be a lot easier to implement his moveset without going overboard on violence.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,211
I've heard the argument that Sub-Zero is less inherently violent than Scorpion (mainly from Max), but I don't agree at all.

People say that Scorpion's chain-spear is too violent, but it's literally just a longer version of Link's hookshot. The hookshot doesn't create a bloody mess in Smash, and neither would Scorpion's spear.

And hell, his classic Fatality is less violent than Sub-Zero's.
 
Jan 10, 2018
8,340
Sydney, Australia
Sora's Valor Form from KH II is literally "Brave Form" in the Japanese version.
That isn't really any better than the Erdrick-Brave connection, and Sora doesn't have the backing of people like Tansut.

I get that most people on here want Sora more (though personally i'm indifferent between him and Erdrick; they're both my least-wanted Square reps) but you shouldn't get your hopes up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,954
That isn't really any better than the Erdrick-Brave connection, and Sora doesn't have the backing of people like Tansut.

I get that most people on here want Sora more (though personally i'm indifferent between him and Erdrick; they're both my least-wanted Square reps) but you shouldn't get your hopes up.
It was really this tweet from the guy who datamined "Brave" and modded his stats in the first place that made some people take another look at Sora.

https://twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1082781827629223936

 
Jan 10, 2018
8,340
Sydney, Australia
It was really this tweet from the guy who datamined "Brave" and modded his stats in the first place that made some people take another look at Sora.

https://twitter.com/_Mizumi/status/1082781827629223936

Putting Brave's parameters over Ike isn't really enough to determine which character he is. Also, if we're talking about those parameters, wouldn't Sora have a wall-jump? Because "Brave" doesn't have one.
 
Dec 28, 2017
5,307
All we know is what Sakurai said in his Tweet, which says nothing about Nintendo providing Sakurai with a list.
"The selection was made entirely by Nintendo"

Don't know where people are getting any list from, seems pretty clear what he means to me.


Also, if these are all 3rd party characters, there is no shot in hell Sakurai had chance way to veto that. Those are characters that need to be negotiated first. Once they're locked in, they're locked in. Saying no after being negotiated seems like a good way to royally piss off a 3rd party
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,530
Putting Brave's parameters over Ike isn't really enough to determine which character he is. Also, if we're talking about those parameters, wouldn't Sora have a wall-jump? Because "Brave" doesn't have one.
Not really, plenty of characters in Smash that you'd think would have wall jumps don't have them. It also assumes his moveset would be based of of DDD.

I mean, I get it - DQ makes the most sense. But if we never had the benefit of bias in this case, "Brave" would ideally only be used as a codename for a character where using an English word for their character makes the most sense. At least two Square characters have some prominence of that word which DQ does not, and at least one of them is a more "obscure" codename similar to Jack.
 
Jan 10, 2018
8,340
Sydney, Australia
At least two Square characters have some prominence of that word which DQ does not, and at least one of them is a more "obscure" codename similar to Jack.
Dragon Quest has a very direct connection to the word "Brave", so I don't really understand what you're getting at here. I'll give you that second point though, as I guess Brave = Sora would be more in line with Jack = Joker (though the Brave-Sora connection is a bit more obscure than the Jack-Joker one).
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,424
Putting Brave's parameters over Ike isn't really enough to determine which character he is. Also, if we're talking about those parameters, wouldn't Sora have a wall-jump? Because "Brave" doesn't have one.
Sora doesn't have a wall jump in any of his games. Some later games have a "Dash into the wall and bounce off it" sort of ability, but it's not really the same thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,530
Dragon Quest has a very direct connection to the word "Brave", so I don't really understand what you're getting at here. I'll give you that second point though, as I guess Brave = Sora would be more in line with Jack = Joker.
The word, Brave, isn't what's used to refer to DQ Hero specifically is what I'm saying. They use the word Yuusha. While yes, it translates to Brave, Smash traditionally uses Japanese names to identify characters (such as Koopa, Robot, Packun, etc). Jack makes sense for Joker because that's Jack Frost's name even in Japanese. Obviously while it wouldn't be unheard of for them to start using English translations as identifiers, it would be a break from their naming convention.

Basically what I'm getting at is if you use, say, "Brave" to refer to something like Sora, or maybe even Bravely Default, that would be more accurate to the way other characters are referred to - because even in Japanese they specifically have references that employ said word directly, while DQ's Hero is never referred to as Brave directly, not even in English.
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,259
Houston, TX
"The selection was made entirely by Nintendo"

Don't know where people are getting any list from, seems pretty clear what he means to me.


Also, if these are all 3rd party characters, there is no shot in hell Sakurai had chance way to veto that. Those are characters that need to be negotiated first. Once they're locked in, they're locked in. Saying no after being negotiated seems like a good way to royally piss off a 3rd party
Or they run it by Sakurai before the negotiations.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,530
Is Joker actually reffered to as Jack in the Japanese version of Persona 5? Because every source I can find refers to him as Joka. Even if he is called Jack in the Japanese version of P5:
You misunderstand. "Jack" is believed by most people to be a reference to Jack Frost. That gives the codename some value, as it was obvious they went for something obscure to hide the character's identity from dataminers. The word still makes sense to use in Japanese because Jack Frost is still called "Jack" in that language. Basically, if you want to hold Brave under a similar scrutiny, it presumably has to be a character where using the word "Brave" makes sense even in Japanese.
 
Jan 10, 2018
8,340
Sydney, Australia
You misunderstand. "Jack" is believed by most people to be a reference to Jack Frost. That gives the codename some value, as it was obvious they went for something obscure to hide the character's identity from dataminers. The word still makes sense to use in Japanese because Jack Frost is still called "Jack" in that language. Basically, if you want to hold Brave under a similar scrutiny, it presumably has to be a character where using the word "Brave" makes sense even in Japanese.
Yeah, I know this. I misinterpreted what you meant in your original post.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,211
You misunderstand. "Jack" is believed by most people to be a reference to Jack Frost. That gives the codename some value, as it was obvious they went for something obscure to hide the character's identity from dataminers.
This seems kinda dumb to me.

If they wanted to hide the identities of characters from data-miners, wouldn't they just call them "Fighter Pack Character #1" or something else that's 100% vague?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,299
Obviously while it wouldn't be unheard of for them to start using English translations as identifiers, it would be a break from their naming convention.
Young Link is called Young Link in the Japanese version of the game (announcer, HUD) even though the hiragana in his name reads kodomo.
 
Jan 10, 2018
8,340
Sydney, Australia
Young Link is called Young Link in the Japanese version of the game (announcer, HUD) even though the hiragana in his name reads kodomo.
To add on to this, even internally they still use the name "Young Link" when other characters use Japanese names.

It's probably because "Young" isn't a name, but a title, something that would also be the case for the Dragon Quest heroes.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
11,530
Young Link is called Young Link in the Japanese version of the game (announcer, HUD) even though the hiragana in his name reads kodomo.
That would make sense as to why he's codified as Young Link then, though. The Japanese version still uses that instance.

Nonetheless, it's a fair point.
 
Dec 28, 2017
5,307
The word, Brave, isn't what's used to refer to DQ Hero specifically is what I'm saying. They use the word Yuusha. While yes, it translates to Brave, Smash traditionally uses Japanese names to identify characters (such as Koopa, Robot, Packun, etc). Jack makes sense for Joker because that's Jack Frost's name even in Japanese. Obviously while it wouldn't be unheard of for them to start using English translations as identifiers, it would be a break from their naming convention.

Basically what I'm getting at is if you use, say, "Brave" to refer to something like Sora, or maybe even Bravely Default, that would be more accurate to the way other characters are referred to - because even in Japanese they specifically have references that employ said word directly, while DQ's Hero is never referred to as Brave directly, not even in English.
Japanese names huh

There is a "Valor" hunting style in Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate.
You know what the original name was in the Japanese version Monster Hunter XX? "Brave" style 😉

Especially if this character properties wind up being something like Ike if I read correctly earlier. I could easily see a MH having properties like Ike.
 
Jan 10, 2018
8,340
Sydney, Australia
Especially if this character properties wind up being something like Ike if I read correctly earlier. I could easily see a MH having properties like Ike.
Brave doesn't really have properties like Ike; the dataminer who was testing Brave's parameters just chose Ike because everyone thinks that they are a swordfighter. They look a bit too fast to be Monster Hunter imo.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,247
U.S.
Duh, they’re saving that for his Cyclone Final Smash, silly!

Every time I environs a SEGA All-Stars fighting game, I imagine him being a mech character using a redesigned cyclone with arms. His ultimate would have the cyclone transforming into an airplane. I feel like having him be another physical character who punches and kicks would be a bit boring.
 
Jan 8, 2019
59
I think people are overestimating what kind of pattern they can find in the "codenames." Isn't Jack the only name in the code that isn't just straight up the character's actual name?

And from working with code for Japanese games, I feel like the DLC codenames can be a result of anything, from an elaborate thought process, to them just taking the first word that comes to mind that's not literally just the character's name.

It's not even possible to say whether they think of "brave" as a translation, a Japanese word, an English word, or whatever. It could've came from ブレーブ (bureibu), in which case, you might as well say it's still in Japanese since that's most likely the mindset of the Japanese people actually working on the game.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
11,530
I think people are overestimating what kind of pattern they can find in the "codenames." Isn't Jack the only name in the code that isn't just straight up the character's actual name?

And from working with code for Japanese games, I feel like the DLC codenames can be a result of anything, from an elaborate thought process, to them just taking the first word that comes to mind that's not literally just the character's name.
Whichever theory you want to subscribe with, the one thing that is known for certain is that Nintendo were burned hard with Smash when it came to datamining. Ryu and Roy were leaked months ahead, and Sakurai even made a playful acknowledgment of that fact when they were announced.

Given that, it's obvious that they're attempting to be more vague with the character names this time around. They obviously didn't need to obfuscate with Plant, given how it was revealed before the game was even out, but Joker and "Brave" were patched into the game around the time copies were entering the wild. Given that, it's a little strange that one of these names is so on-the-nose.
 
Jan 10, 2018
8,340
Sydney, Australia
but Joker and "Brave" were patched into the game around the time copies were entering the wild.
Small correction here: "Jack" was in the base version (as was Piranha Plant). "Brave" was added in in the day one patch.

It doesn't really mean much though (besides telling us that Joker is probably a bit further in development than Erdrick, which makes sense).
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,227
Are we expecting Joker and "Brave" to launch at the same time?
I'm expecting an April release for Joker and Brave to be announced and released at E3. Would be a 2 month gap between Plant (assuming he's in February), Joker, Brave, and a potential Evo reveal in August which would also be 2 months after E3
 
Jan 10, 2018
8,340
Sydney, Australia
Are we expecting Joker and "Brave" to launch at the same time?
Probably not. I think the reveal schedule will be:
  • March: Joker gameplay + release date / "Brave" teaser (in a Nintendo Direct).
  • April: Joker releases.
  • May: N/A
  • E3 2019: "Brave" gameplay / "Brave" releases / Pack 3 teaser.
  • Evo 2019: Pack 3 gameplay,
  • September: Pack 3 releases / November Smash Direct announcement.
  • November: Pack 4 reveal + gameplay / Pack 4 releases / Pack 5 reveal.
  • The Game Awards 2019: Pack 5 gameplay.
  • February: Pack 5 releases.
 
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Jan 8, 2019
59
Given that, it's obvious that they're attempting to be more vague with the character names this time around. They obviously didn't need to obfuscate with Plant, given how it was revealed before the game was even out, but Joker and "Brave" were patched into the game around the time copies were entering the wild. Given that, it's a little strange that one of these names is so on-the-nose.
Is "Jack" the one that's on the nose? I feel like there'd be a lot more speculation if we didn't know who it was already, but I guess the only other character I can think of is Raiden...
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,578
Not counting Piranha Plant.

I think one of the DLC characters is so going to be Available...today! March direct with Joker maybe (probably not)

(They did that 2 twice last time with Roy/Ryu/Lucas and Cloud).