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Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,287
Houston, TX
I'm not taking Spring Man as a next Smash lock because it's so far out we won't even know the state of Nintendo 1st party by then.

Olimar isn't as good a comparison because Brawl's project plan was made in 2005 which was 1 year after the release of Pikmin 2. If ARMS 2 manages to get released somewhere around 2021 to 2023 then I think Spring Man has a great chance. Else I don't think Sakurai would be revisiting 2017 games for what would be like a 2025 Smash game. (Heck the next Pokemon rep may be from Gen 10 at that point. lol)
I'd imagine that ARMS will get a sequel on the next Nintendo system. If Sakurai (or whoever is directing the next Smash game) is made aware of the sequel, he'll likely take ARMS into consideration for the next Smash game. Though as was the case with Splatoon in Smash Ultimate, they'd mostly pull from the first ARMS game in Smash 6/7 in this scenario.

As for Pokémon, it could end up being the Gen 9 rep if there's a 4-year gap between generations going forward. If it's 3 years between each new generation, then yeah, it'll probably be Gen 10.
 

Red Arremer

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
12,259
He has a cool theme too.



In his secret video for beating a Grand Prix cup on the hardest difficulty with him as pilot, he basically prescribed himself a few too many medications.


ZSS's implementation in Brawl wasn't really fun, though. I prefer playing her over armored Samus, but tying her into Samus's FS was obnoxious. That's far worse than Zelda/Sheik using Down+B as the transform move.

You could select her individually without having to use Samus and her Final Smash, but it was roundabout kind of like Sheik in Melee was.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,685
Elysium
I know people constantly say to not expect a Xenoblade 2 rep but honestly Rex with Pyra/Mythra, KOS MOS, and Te LOS as his Blade set would be badass.

Granted that's like the least likely interpretation of Rex and well who's to say how likely he is to begin with

I'd much rather have KOS-MOS standalone. But I guess this is a close 2nd.
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,288
She made sense in Brawl as an end game transformation -- it was clever and faithful to Zero Mission (and Other M) -- but standalone ZSS with rocket boots is dumb. I know people generally dislike transformations, but separating ZSS from Samus defeats the point of her inclusion in the first place.
Ryce gets it. She's so far removed from both her Smash origins and what she's actually representing in Metroid that she feels like a Smash Bros. original character in a way not even Captain Falcon and his ilk do.

Zero Suit Samus is emergency mode Samus stripped of her actual weapon (her suit), getting by with her wits, athleticism, and pluck. Brawl got this. Stripping out all of this and giving her go go rocket boots just makes her into this sexy space girl in a blue jump suit.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
She made sense in Brawl as an end game transformation -- it was clever and faithful to Zero Mission (and Other M) -- but standalone ZSS with rocket boots is dumb. I know people generally dislike transformations, but separating ZSS from Samus defeats the point of her inclusion in the first place.
Smash wouldn't be a true fighting game if we didn't have multiple versions of the same character.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
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Oct 27, 2017
35,527
You could select her individually without having to use Samus and her Final Smash, but it was roundabout kind of like Sheik in Melee was.
You could, but ZSS's FS would then force you to use armored Samus.

Isn't posting fakes standard procedure for the Smash community?
The Grinch Effect.

Ryce gets it. She's so far removed from both her Smash origins and what she's actually representing in Metroid that she feels like a Smash Bros. original character in a way not even Captain Falcon and his ilk do.
Now that's some hyperbole. While Smash ZSS has abilities that she never had in Zero Mission or Other M, she has more in common with those counterparts than the in-game origin game representations of a character like Captain Falcon.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,120
Zero Suit Samus would be better if she had actual rocket boots and not glorified heels.

The idea of her stomping around in big ass Varia boots is hilarious to me.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,440
In 2005, ZSS would've made a lot of sense to include. She was a big new feature in Zero Mission which was only a year old, and Ridley was still too big back then.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
I've been playing Theatrhythm lately and it pains me so much to hear all this awesome Final Fantasy (and Chrono Trigger) music that will never make it into Smash. :(
 

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,288
Now that's some hyperbole. While Smash ZSS has abilities that she never had in Zero Mission or Other M, she has more in common with those counterparts than the in-game origin game representations of a character like Captain Falcon.
I disagree. Captain Falcon and Fox/Falco had never been seen outside of their ships in any meaningful way prior to their first Smash appearances, whereas Zero Suit Samus is an actual playable character. Whatever they did had to be made up, so whatever, but Zero Suit Samus is like the one player character who's had full pieces of her arsenal (not just moves) made up wholesale. It'd be like just giving Mario a jet pack.
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,474
Australia
I disagree. Captain Falcon and Fox/Falco had never been seen outside of their ships in any meaningful way prior to their first Smash appearances, whereas Zero Suit Samus is an actual playable character. Whatever they did had to be made up, so whatever, but Zero Suit Samus is like the one player character who's had full pieces of her arsenal (not just moves) made up wholesale. It'd be like just giving Mario a jet pack.
Star Fox 64's multiplayer mode isn't a meaningful way for Fox and Falco?
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
I disagree. Captain Falcon and Fox/Falco had never been seen outside of their ships in any meaningful way prior to their first Smash appearances, whereas Zero Suit Samus is an actual playable character. Whatever they did had to be made up, but Zero Suit Samus is like the one player character who's had full pieces of her arsenal (not just moves) made up wholesale. It'd be like just giving Mario a jet pack.
ZSS's arsenal wasn't made up wholesale, though? She has her stun blaster and is depicted as more agile than her armored counterpart. Yes, the rocket heels were a wacky addition, and they made her blaster double as an energy whip, but it's not like Sakurai pulled a moveset for her completely out of nowhere.
 

Red Arremer

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
12,259
To say Zero Suit Samus is super far removed from her appearances in Zero Mission and Other M is kind of wrong though.
Captain Falcon was a 100% original creation - until Brawl introducing the Blue Falcon as Final Smash, there was 0 references to his series beyond him being fast, not even any references to the comic that came with the SNES game, like the gun he had in that one.
Zero Suit Samus still heavily references what she does in Zero Mission (both with the stun gun and the crawl, for instance), and a lot of her moves aren't that far removed from what a suitless Samus could do either. Remember that she's a super athlete with Chozo genes in her body. The only things that are completely original to her Smash incarnations are the laser whip and the rocket boots, and the rocket boots aren't even out of character for her either, even though people don't like the design.
The whip is the one thing I'm probably the iffiest on from a Metroid series representation standpoint, but I also understand that Zero Suit Samus didn't have a lot to work with, and a character with a whip didn't exist prior to Brawl, so I don't fault Sakurai for taking a few liberties with it. It's probably the least believable out of all of Zero Suit Samus' abilities and gadgets, but it's still feasible for a sci-fi series.

Also, let's not forget that the rocket heels were introduced specifically in Smash 4 when pure tether recoveries got kicked into the bin. In Brawl she had another whip move.
 
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MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,474
Australia
Wait, how much of an easter egg was it? I honestly don't remember unlock requirements. All I do remember was playing SF64 multiplayer and being on foot.
You had to earn a medal on every planet (kill a certain amount of enemies without dying) in normal mode, and then get a medal on Venom in Hard Mode.

It really wasn't worth it.
 

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,281
It's incredibly unlikely that Samus would be wearing rocket boots under her power suit. ZSS is supposed to be Samus at her most vulnerable. But there's no point in complaining about it.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
You had to earn a medal on every planet (kill a certain amount of enemies without dying) in normal mode, and then get a medal on Venom in Hard Mode.

It really wasn't worth it.
Huh. That figures. My brother and I put so much time into SF64 that we could both play the game in our sleep, so I guess we unlocked everything.
 

Red Arremer

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
12,259
It's incredibly unlikely that Samus would be wearing rocket boots under her power suit. ZSS is supposed to be Samus at her most vulnerable. But there's no point in complaining about it.

Under her power suit - of course not.
But there probably could be situations where bringing the suit isn't feasible. In those situations, boots with rocket jets would be very helpful. I could see her putting those on. Obviously she never uses these things in the actual games, or is put in a situation where the Zero Suit is specifically preferable over the armour, but I don't think it's as outlandish as you're making it out to be.
And Samus is basically a weapon on her own, so she's still a handful even at her most vulnerable.

Plus, as said, the heels were specifically introduced to offset the tether up B from Brawl getting removed. I don't like the way the jets look either, mind you.
 

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,281
Under her power suit - of course not.
But there probably could be situations where bringing the suit isn't feasible. In those situations, boots with rocket jets would be very helpful. I could see her putting those on. Obviously she never uses these things in the actual games, or is put in a situation where the Zero Suit is specifically preferable over the armour, but I don't think it's as outlandish as you're making it out to be.
And Samus is basically a weapon on her own, so she's still a handful even at her most vulnerable.

Plus, as said, the heels were specifically introduced to offset the tether up B from Brawl getting removed. I don't like the way the jets look either, mind you.
I just think Smash For/Ultimate ZSS goes against the character's original concept. The Zero Suit wasn't intended to be a badass alternative to the Varia Suit like some of her other suits -- it's literally just the bodysuit she wears beneath her armor. I do enjoy playing as ZSS, but whenever I use her I can't help but think how bizarre and random she is as a standalone fighter.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
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Oct 27, 2017
35,527
I just think Smash For/Ultimate ZSS goes against the character's original concept. The Zero Suit wasn't intended to be a badass alternative to the Varia Suit like some of her other suits -- it's literally just the bodysuit she wears beneath her armor. I do enjoy playing as ZSS, but whenever I use her I can't help but think how bizarre and random she is as a standalone fighter.
Bizarre and random compared to characters like Mr. Game & Watch or Lucina being made a distinct fighter from Marth at the last minute just because?

At least ZSS has more in common with her original appearances than Falcondorf.
 

Lady Bow

Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,277
I just think Smash For/Ultimate ZSS goes against the character's original concept. The Zero Suit wasn't intended to be a badass alternative to the Varia Suit like some of her other suits -- it's literally just the bodysuit she wears beneath her armor. I do enjoy playing as ZSS, but whenever I use her I can't help but think how bizarre and random she is as a standalone fighter.
Yea the whole point was that she's "naked" without her power suit and had to rely on her stun gun. Adding heels in Smash 4 was just making another already problematic design even worse unfortunately. :/
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,616

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,281
Bizarre and random compared to characters like Mr. Game & Watch or Lucina being made a distinct fighter from Marth at the last minute just because?
Yes. ZSS and Sheik don't feel like characters who would have been included as standalone newcomers without their respective transformation mechanics.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,218
Rochester, New York
She was clearly not balanced to be worse than Samus, even in Brawl, but she's supposed to be worse than Samus, so her entire gimmick hasn't worked since she was added as a character.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,218
Rochester, New York
Yeah, no. They're not making ZSS a joke character. She's a skilled, competent fighter. Not a Dan-style comic joke.
She's a last resort survival suit for Samus. She died to one hit in Zero Mission

Smash has never represented her well. Unless she's specifically balanced to be a punishment last resort character you only use until you can use Samus again, then her entire premise doesn't work
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,120
Zero Suit Samus was added because Sakurai wanted another Metroid character but chickened out on Ridley. Kind of funny now that we're at Ridley and 3 Samuses.
 

Hailinel

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Oct 27, 2017
35,527
She's a last resort survival suit for Samus. She died to one hit in Zero Mission

Smash has never represented her well. Unless she's specifically balanced to be a punishment last resort character you only use until you can use Samus again, then her entire premise doesn't work
Smash as a series has had Ganondorf as a slow punching man for decades.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
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Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Zero Suit Samus' entire existence is to be a bad Samus
OK. And R.O.B.'s entire existence is as a generally unwieldy accessory that is more fondly remembered for nostalgia than when used to play his games. Hell, Sakurai completely reinvented Pit for Brawl and then carried over his revised design into Uprising.

There's also nothing preventing NIntendo from making a game entirely about Zero Suit Samus.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,120
Kinda surprised Shovel Knight got a full 3D model Assist Trophy but Shantae just got a Spirit. I figured when I saw the SK AT she would get one as well.

I guess Shovel Knight already had a 3D model from Yooka-Laylee?
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,108
Kinda surprised Shovel Knight got a full 3D model Assist Trophy but Shantae just got a Spirit. I figured when I saw the SK AT she would get one as well.

I guess Shovel Knight already had a 3D model from Yooka-Laylee?
Thinking about it the models do look similar but I think they did make a new model for each unless if Yacht Club Gad the model to lend. Kind of like how Ubisoft had the Rayman model they gave Sakurai which ended up as a trophy
 
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