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Zarzolaon

Member
Mar 16, 2018
2,282
OH
A level up gimmick could be interesting and balanced when only considering the competitive ruleset, but it could never be completely balanced in a game like Smash. It would end up overpowered in increased/max stock matches and the opposite for decreased stock and squad matches.

There's still technically a way around that, but it seems like a hassle to me.
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,177
A level up gimmick could be interesting and balanced when only considering the competitive ruleset, but it could never be completely balanced in a game like Smash. It would end up overpowered in increased/max stock matches and the opposite for decreased stock and squad matches.

There's still technically a way around that, but it seems like a hassle to me.

Yeah, I'm aware of how complex it could be in Smash Bros but it wouldn't stop me from dreaming! I remember I made a list of gimmicky characters right before smash 4 got announced. I had like 6-10 different gimmicks that haven't previously existed in Smash Bros. Some of them actually happened in Smash 4 in their own way but I accepted them regardless.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,588
A level up gimmick wouldn't be terribly different from something like rage/Lucario's aura or even Cloud's Limit Break. And if you're talking smaller increases (5-10% per stat) and you start off relatively weaker it would be fine.
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,473
Australia
So, what's the common speculation for the new mode(s) teased for 3.0? I've seen Stage Builder mentioned a lot, but couldn't it easily be Stadium instead?

Just a reminded (because not everyone was keeping up with the pre-release spoiler thread); there are gaps in an internal listing of modes for one Smash mode and two Games and More modes (and A LOT of Online modes, but I think those are just a leftover from them initially using Smash 4's Online mode selections; that's just a prediction though).
 
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OwOtacon

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 18, 2018
2,394
I feel like if it was a Dragon Quest character, that last direct would have been too early yes, but also perfect timing with two mega announcements for Dragon Quest.

#TeamBravelydefaultcharacter
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I feel like if it was a Dragon Quest character, that last direct would have been too early yes, but also perfect timing with two mega announcements for Dragon Quest.

#TeamBravelydefaultcharacter
There not even showing Joker gameplay yet. No way they'd reveal another character this soon.

I'm betting with the people thinking we'll get a mini Smash Direct with Joker gameplay, 3.0 details, and a new reveal.

(Plus I don't need another RPG to play right now.)
 

Zarzolaon

Member
Mar 16, 2018
2,282
OH
Yeah, I'm aware of how complex it could be in Smash Bros but it wouldn't stop me from dreaming! I remember I made a list of gimmicky characters right before smash 4 got announced. I had like 6-10 different gimmicks that haven't previously existed in Smash Bros. Some of them actually happened in Smash 4 in their own way but I accepted them regardless.
It's a shame because it's a fitting gimmick and sounds simple enough to add.

A level up gimmick wouldn't be terribly different from something like rage/Lucario's aura or even Cloud's Limit Break. And if you're talking smaller increases (5-10% per stat) and you start off relatively weaker it would be fine.
If it doesn't reset after losing a stock it becomes more complicated to balance. So it's either only balanced for 3-stock, or they put extra time into making it work differently under adjusted settings.
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,473
Australia
So we're thinking a Smash Mini-Direct for March might happen? If so, I could see it covering
  • Joker gameplay/full details.
  • Mii Costume Wave 1 reveal.
  • Update 3.0 details; including new mode(s) details and other features.
  • Smash World details.
  • Release dates for all of the above.
  • Final reveal is a teaser for the next fighter after Joker.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,590
So we're thinking a Smash Mini-Direct for March might happen? If so, I could see it covering
  • Joker gameplay/full details.
  • Mii Costume Wave 1 reveal.
  • Update 3.0 details; including new mode(s) details and other features.
  • Smash World details.
  • Release dates for all of the above.
  • Final reveal is a teaser for the next fighter after Joker.

March or April sounds about right. They didn't say when in April we can expect Joker, but I'm thinking it will be towards the end.
 

Deleted member 2669

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
I don't think Joker needs a realistic gun, and for all we know they might have lightened up on the whole thing since knives also used to be off limits.

I'm really hoping his specials are tied to Personas and he can switch them like Pokemon Trainer. Three sounds good. Arsene is a lock, Jack Frost would be likely, but I can't think of a third.

Possible Arsene specials:
Neutral: Eiha, a short pillar of darkness appearing at a fixed distance. Can be held to use the medium Eiga, and even longer for the heavy Eigaon.
Side: Dream Needle. Shoots needles that may put the target to sleep.
Up: Cleave. Arsene somersaults to slice the foe with his bladed heels and helps Joker glide. Something similar to Metaknight's up special.
Down: Persona switch.

These are all three of Arsene's offensive moves from P5 along with a Persona switch command.
 

lambdaupsilon

Member
Apr 17, 2018
1,211
I'm really hoping his specials are tied to Personas and he can switch them like Pokemon Trainer. Three sounds good. Arsene is a lock, Jack Frost would be likely, but I can't think of a third.
1485137218705.png
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
As long as Home-Run Contest (plus more Mob Smash modes) are also included, I wouldn't mind.

Deal.

Ya know, I've been thinking they should include a soccer minigame since they have that item. Either make it take place on its own stage, or take those biggified versions of 8-player FD stages and put a goal on either end. I think it'd be fun!
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,213
Rochester, New York
So we're thinking a Smash Mini-Direct for March might happen? If so, I could see it covering
  • Joker gameplay/full details.
  • Mii Costume Wave 1 reveal.
  • Update 3.0 details; including new mode(s) details and other features.
  • Smash World details.
  • Release dates for all of the above.
  • Final reveal is a teaser for the next fighter after Joker.
Sounds about right, this is what I'm expecting
 

Woylie

Member
May 9, 2018
1,849
Isn't the Switch Online App supposed to work with Smash Bros eventually? I remember that being announced at some point in one of the direct. I could see details about that being part of a new Smash direct, but I hope it wouldn't be considered "the big new thing."
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
1,454
TBH up until Brave leaked (who has a height stat reconfirming it's likely a human-type character), I would've assumed Slime would've been the Dragon Quest character). It's more iconic than any individual protagonist, it actually has a large number of moves available due to spin-offs, it'd be able to reference several entries of the series at the same time (including the spin-offs), and Rocket Slime is just way better than anything in the main series.

Like, it's not a Goomba scenario since Goomba isn't the protagonist of its own game, doesn't represent several monsters in a Pokemon type game, and doesn't ever carry a knight's armor or other items allowing for it to easily represent the whole series.

The whole slime vs DQ protagonist always felt like the argument where people would argue that the black knight was a better fit than cloud for smash.
Sure, they're unique and do provide a completely different playstyle...but in the end of the day people just want to play as the most popular (in this case, the protagonist) character. Especially moreso for third-party characters where you can only choose one.

Anyway, have we seen any characters (who use summons, like peach and Zelda) use more than one summon? I'm personally feeling that Joker will only use arsene as his only persona in smash.
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,107
I think we'll get the potential Smash Direct in April.

I think they want to focus everything on Yoshi for March and April will be closer to when they promised 3.0's release so they can drop it after the Direct.
 

TheFireman

Banned
Dec 22, 2017
3,918
The whole slime vs DQ protagonist always felt like the argument where people would argue that the black knight was a better fit than cloud for smash.
Sure, they're unique and do provide a completely different playstyle...but in the end of the day people just want to play as the most popular (in this case, the protagonist) character. Especially moreso for third-party characters where you can only choose one.

Anyway, have we seen any characters (who use summons, like peach and Zelda) use more than one summon? I'm personally feeling that Joker will only use arsene as his only persona in smash.

I mean, Edrick's no Cloud. I get the comparison, but I think Slime's a character a more casual audience would recognize compared to any Dragon Quest protagonist.
 

Zarzolaon

Member
Mar 16, 2018
2,282
OH
I don't think Joker needs a realistic gun, and for all we know they might have lightened up on the whole thing since knives also used to be off limits.

I'm really hoping his specials are tied to Personas and he can switch them like Pokemon Trainer. Three sounds good. Arsene is a lock, Jack Frost would be likely, but I can't think of a third.

Possible Arsene specials:
Neutral: Eiha, a short pillar of darkness appearing at a fixed distance. Can be held to use the medium Eiga, and even longer for the heavy Eigaon.
Side: Dream Needle. Shoots needles that may put the target to sleep.
Up: Cleave. Arsene somersaults to slice the foe with his bladed heels and helps Joker glide. Something similar to Metaknight's up special.
Down: Persona switch.

These are all three of Arsene's offensive moves from P5 along with a Persona switch command.
Pixie/High Pixie/Hua Po and Cu Chulainn/Tam Lin are options. Things that add variety plus aren't too high level (ex: for an SMT protag, I included Alice, but in Persona 5 she's ultimate, and Arsene already reps darkness). I feel like I'm missing an obvious pick, though, and I haven't watched the the animation yet.

Of course, it could just be Jack and Arsene. Or only Arsene.
 

Deleted member 2669

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
Only Arsene would be terrible. Even if there's precedent in P4 Arena (a missed opportunity there too, one nabbed by Margaret later on) Joker's whole thing is he can switch Personas and it would be a huge missed opportunity both in regard to Joker and in achieving what a demon summoner would be expected to do via a Persona protagonist. Hell, maybe Persona switching could even fill the void left behind by Rex to some extent. It would be a unique gimmick and it would be so disappointing if Sakurai passed up on it.
 
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Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
I'm really hoping his specials are tied to Personas and he can switch them like Pokemon Trainer. Three sounds good. Arsene is a lock, Jack Frost would be likely, but I can't think of a third.
100% chance no doubt in my mind his Final Smash is going to be an All-Out Attack with all the other members of the Phantom Thieves. He is definitely going to be fighting with his knife (and possibly his model gun). I can't see him being a Pokemon trainer character since there is too much going on with him alone.

And outside Arsene and game mascot Jack Frost the only notable Persona's Joker could have is his final Persona Satanael (which will probably not make it in because.. You know. Satan). Or smaller suggestions: Agathion the first fusion the game that forces you to Fuse Arsene.

Honestly, the perfect rep for me would be able to have a character that demonstrates owning/befriending multiple personas/demons and fusing them to make stronger Personas, and mixing that together with his fast/roguish/thief like combat.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,684
Elysium
Vergeben is on life support now isn't he?

Also, not giving up on my girl KOS-MOS. I want to believe.


The new figure is stunning of her. I can't wait to see it fully painted and I will spend for it. IDC she's my favourite character of all time.

https:///wp-content/uploads/2019/02/KOSMOSRe.jpg
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
1,454
I mean, Edrick's no Cloud. I get the comparison, but I think Slime's a character a more casual audience would recognize compared to any Dragon Quest protagonist.

Personally if you have the slightest interaction with DQ it'll probably be with the protagonist, and as a casual viewer the desire for slime would be a lot less enthusiastic compared to players who prefer Endrick.
Maybe a better comparison (if you played fire emblem), would be the call to include protagonists over other characters who have appeared over multiple series (anna) but with a much smaller role.

Back to the persona talk - reason why I thought they'll focus on arsene is because there's a lot of flexibility you can do with that one summon.
Over cluttering the moveset with multiple summons feels weird.
 

Zarzolaon

Member
Mar 16, 2018
2,282
OH
Only Arsene would be terrible. Even if there's precedent in P4 Arena (a missed opportunity there too, one nabbed by Margaret later on) Joker's whole thing is he can switch Personas and it would be a huge missed opportunity both in regard to Joker and in achieving what a demon summoner would be expected to do via a Persona protagonist. Hell, maybe Persona switching could even fill the void left behind by Rex to some extent. It would be a unique gimmick and it would be so disappointing if Sakurai passed up on it.
Well there's also Bayonetta, there was potential there (see MvC Dante). Maybe too much potential.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,369
Barcelona
To me , the lack of DQ Smash announcement after the long Direct section about XI S is practically a de-confirm. A good one, I don't want DQ in Smash tbh.
 

Zubz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,565
no
I still want Hayabusa, and it sucks seeing so many of you wanting the rumor to be deconfirmed. :(

(I don't think it's true anyway, but it still sucks.)

If it's any consolation, Ryu Hayabusa's not one of the reasons I want that rumor deconfirmed. Replace Steve? & Erdrick w/ Banjo & Crash, & I'm still down for some Ninja Gaiden action. And Doomguy was the one character on that list I actively wanted, so obviously he's still cool.

Yeah, Nintendo has been playing the long game since publishing DQ in the West since DQ9 way back in 2009

2009? Nintendo Power constantly caped for Dragon Quest before then. Not to sound like a broken record, but they literally gave away the first game with new subscriptions for a time because Nintendo personally translated & published the game for a Western release & then got cold feet on a wide release. The reviews for the series' stateside return in the DS/Wii era always felt way too glowing with reviewers openly wondering why Americans weren't getting in on the series.

Vergeben is on life support now isn't he?

Vergeben was on life support the first time he went back & edited his "Mega Leak" when other leakers were contradicting him.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,863
What do you guys think about this schedule?

Mid March/Early April - Smash mini direct with Joker, 3.0 stuff, "Brave"'s announcement

E3: DLC Pack #3 is revealed, "Brave" is either dropped after the direct or gets a release date

September: DLC Pack #4 is revealed in a general direct. #3 gets released around then.

November/December: One last mini Smash direct. DLC Pack #4 gets released, and #5 gets announced.

Early 2020: DLC Pack #5 is released.

To me , the lack of DQ Smash announcement after the long Direct section about XI S is practically a de-confirm. A good one, I don't want DQ in Smash tbh.
Or they just didn't feel like announcing him then. The direct didn't even give us any Joker gameplay, so why would they bother to announce the next character without even showing off the first one beforehand?
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
as long as you don't want it in over regular Break the Targets

honestly I wish they'd bring back Smash 4 Classic Mode, it was a fun mode if you factor out how many challenges revolved about grinding your ass off in it

I'd adore the return of traditional Target Test, but I recognize that the 64/Melee approach would require a disproportionate amount of work. I'd settle for the Brawl approach but with like 10 instead of 5 stages. Or maybe they could do a single layout for each series and give them each unique, corresponding backgrounds?

It'd be amazing if they let us make our own break the targets courses.

Or there's this. Kind of integrating user-created target stages into the Stage Builder, which is probably the easiest solution.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,595
Joker will be missing some trademark stuff just like Bayonetta didnt have her animal transformations.
You'll probably be able to pick a persona similar to how Shulk can choose modes
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,369
Barcelona
Or they just didn't feel like announcing him then. The direct didn't even give us any Joker gameplay, so why would they bother to announce the next character there?
It makes sense considering they did a long DQ XI section. Maybe they want to announce the character when the game is closer, but to me it felt like a de-confirm (which is marvelous).
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
To me , the lack of DQ Smash announcement after the long Direct section about XI S is practically a de-confirm. A good one, I don't want DQ in Smash tbh.

Why would they show a new character when gameplay isn't even being shown of the first one.

You should probably at least hold out till April before writing off DQ in Smash.

Frankly I still think chances are high it'll be in there. I'd say you should expect it and hope you're pleasantly surprised.
Joker is defined by his Persona switching though. As it's called the Wild Card ability, it's even in his name! They did go the extra mile with Bayonetta.
So were Yu and Aigis in the Answer.

Arena still gave them a focus on just one Persona.

Frankly I hope it's just Arsene. Add anything else and his move set would just feel cluttered.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,369
Barcelona

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,473
Australia
It makes sense considering they did a long DQ XI section. Maybe they want to announce the character when the game is closer, but to me it felt like a de-confirm (which is marvelous).
Don't get your hopes up. Again, why would they show the next character when they still haven't shown gameplay for the previous one?
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
1,454
Anyway, I know we don't have any idea on the remaining 3 but who could they be (ignoring the fake leak)?
The fair assumption is that it'll be solely focused on series that Nintendo wants to promote, but could there be any other motivation? Maybe they might end up going for popularity instead of relationships?
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Anyway, I know we don't have any idea on the remaining 3 but who could they be (ignoring the fake leak)?
The fair assumption is that it'll be solely focused on series that Nintendo wants to promote, but could there be any other motivation? Maybe they might end up going for popularity instead of relationships?
I'm hoping we get at least 1 or 2 first party characters.

I'd love another Splatoon character for instance. Like have Off the Hook as an Ice Climber style character.

For promotions I wouldn't mind seeing the Astral Chain characters being Corin'd but I know some wouldn't like that.

For third parties it could go any way. I think having a Microsoft guest isn't unfeasible now though.
 
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