Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread | The Wild Ride is still on!

[Apopheniac]

re: Xenoblade's future, it doesn't look good for more Elma to me

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/xenoblade-chronicles-2-postmortem-breaking-down-the-inaugural-switch-rpgs-success-with-tetsuya-takahashi

"Is there a chance we'll see a port of the Wii U's Xenoblade Chronicles X on the Switch?" Like many excellent games on the failed console, Xenoblade Chronicles X faded into relative obscurity and is deserving of new life on the Switch.

"Well, the future at present is unclear," Takahashi says, which is the same answer I received when I ask about the possibility of a Xenoblade Chronicles 3. "Personally speaking, I'd love to play the game on the Switch, but it would be really difficult to make it."

When it comes to roadblocks that stand in the way of Xenoblade Chronicles X on the Switch, Takahashi's answer is simple.

"Money," he laughs. "It's a massive game. Re-creating it would be really difficult."

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https://www.usgamer.net/articles/xe...apan-far-exceeded-monolith-softs-expectations

Though Takahashi says he's not yet ready to talk about what we might see in a future installment of Xenoblade Chronicles, I asked him if there's a chance the series will return to the harder science fiction setting we saw in Xenoblade Chronicles X for the Wii U—i.e. will we return to exploring planets and piloting mechs instead of travelling on the backs of the huge, living Titans that define Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Takashi says it's possible, but a "third option" isn't off the table, either.

"I'm someone who gets bored of whatever it was I did last," he says. "If the [Xenoblade Chronicles] series continues, you just might see it take a third option. It might go down a path it hasn't gone down before."

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[CyberWolfBia]

following the post I made about our current guest fighters and their presence in Nintendo systems, so I thought that would be fun also bring out the same thing for the characters of my personal predictions. This time I tried to make it simpler with just the games and all of them in a singular image, but of course, if feel free to ask away if you have any questions.

Also.. the image below may contain spoiler from the Dragon Quest series;

Spoiler: Predictions

 

[stan423321]

that's Battlefield 2

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Spoiler: Betafield 2? I can't wait for some waltzalikes!

 

[Subconian Dreamer]

I think Master Hand/Crazy hand will be DLC and in fact the last DLC in the fighter pass. Perfect way to cap off Ultimate.

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Glover echo fighter or no deal

 

[Gartooth]

I remember hearing that XCX on the Wii U required more disk space than is available on a Switch cart, though not sure if that could stop them from porting since they could require a digital download.

 

[Clefargle]

There still might be a chance, Monolith has noticed Elma is a fan favorite, including her in Xenoblade 2 DLC. Not to mention Xenoblade X will most likely get a sequel with her playing a prominent role in it.

I could even see them tying her with a Switch re-release of Xenoblade Chronicles X.

Fingers crossed.

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I could still see it happening. There is a conspicuous absence of almost all Xenoblade X content in Smash Ultimate. It's only represented by a couple of spirits and that's it.

 

[MondoMega]

I mean, if we're being real, Master Hand and Crazy Hand would probably be free additions (probably in new Special Smash and Mob Smash modes or something).

It would be pretty scummy to make people pay for them when the former is already playable in Ultimate. Other fighting games may do that a bunch, but I could never see it from Smash.

 

[Clefargle]

I remember hearing that XCX on the Wii U required more disk space than is available on a Switch cart, though not sure if that could stop them from porting since they could require a digital download.

Click to shrink...

Never Give up

 

[MondoMega]

I remember hearing that XCX on the Wii U required more disk space than is available on a Switch cart, though not sure if that could stop them from porting since they could require a digital download.

Click to shrink...

All of the Wii U ports so far have been reduced in file size compared to their original counterparts (and even Ultimate has a smaller file size than Smash 4 does, due to new music compression magic). They could get it to fit. Worst case, they make people download parts of the game again (like on the Wii U).

 

[stan423321]

I remember hearing that XCX on the Wii U required more disk space than is available on a Switch cart, though not sure if that could stop them from porting since they could require a digital download.

Click to shrink...

EU download version is ~21GiB, but I have to imagine 16 GiB is reachable. This involves both new compression tech, hardware load balancing (as decompressing stuff takes time), and language splitting. Rayman Legends went down a half, though that involved some loading. Tropical Freeze lost a third, that one had a lot of duplicates for one reason or another - hard to say if XCX has some too.

 

[Smash Kirby]

All of the Wii U ports so far have been reduced in file size compared to their original counterparts (and even Ultimate has a smaller file size than Smash 4 does, due to new music compression magic). They could get it to fit. Worst case, they make people download parts of the game again (like on the Wii U).

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The lack of Trophies helps with that.

 

[MondoMega]

The lack of Trophies helps with that.

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Yeah, but Ultimate has a lot of extra models (due to the almost x2 increase in stages, plus a lot more Assist Trophies, Pokemon, Items and other things). It probably becomes fairly balanced all things considered.

 

[Apopheniac]

The data packs for XCX were optional and only to aid load times for disc players, though I imagine making part of the game download-only for a Switch port wouldn't be too bad, given how relatively space it would take up compared to some other mandatory downloads

 

[HeroR]

There still might be a chance, Monolith has noticed Elma is a fan favorite, including her in Xenoblade 2 DLC. Not to mention Xenoblade X will most likely get a sequel with her playing a prominent role in it.

I could even see them tying her with a Switch re-release of Xenoblade Chronicles X.

Fingers crossed.

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So far, no Xenoblade sequel star a returning character outside of cameo. Even Xenoblade Chronicles 2 which:

Spoiler

Was a parallel of the first game and we only got Shulk's voice.

 

[MondoMega]

The data packs for XCX were optional and only to aid load times for disc players, though I imagine making part of the game download-only for a Switch port wouldn't be too bad, given how relatively space it would take up compared to some other mandatory downloads

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I think Nintendo are avoiding mandatory downloads for their own games (while giving the option for third parties). Closest they have on the Switch are a few games (Fire Emblem Warriors, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, maybe one or two more) with free language pack DLC, but those aren't really mandatory.

 

[Smash Kirby]

Yeah, but Ultimate has a lot of extra models (due to the almost x2 increase in stages, plus a lot more Assist Trophies, Pokemon, Items and other things). It probably becomes fairly balanced all things considered.

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Probably, I'm sure there is a even level of sorts. Still saved a bit by bit having them. I just wished the spirits had descriptions, the ones in Smash 4 were amazing.

 

[V_ac]

So far, no Xenoblade sequel star a returning character outside of cameo. Even Xenoblade Chronicles 2 which:

Spoiler

Was a parallel of the first game and we only got Shulk's voice.

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True, but something not happening before doesn't stop it from happening in the future. Hell, if they do decide to make a future Xenoblade a direct sequel to a previous one then X is prime bait for a sequel - it leaves several questions unanswered and the artbook teases multiple things too.

We're probably not gonna see whatever the next Xenoblade is for a while anyways, though. Monolith Soft's new IP is certainly coming first. I just hope the next Xenoblade doesn't miss the planning period for the next Smash.

 

[Hailinel]

Just wait until E3, when Nintendo announces that they've come to an agreement with Square Enix to produce a Switch-exclusive Xenogears remake and Fei Fong Wong is coming to Smash.

 

[BGBW]

We'll get Lin and Tatsu together as the next Xenoblade rep.

If people can argue for Slime to be the Dragon Quest rep cos they're the mascot, I can argue for the Nopon. Meh meh.

 

[r_n]

All of the Wii U ports so far have been reduced in file size compared to their original counterparts (and even Ultimate has a smaller file size than Smash 4 does, due to new music compression magic). They could get it to fit. Worst case, they make people download parts of the game again (like on the Wii U).

Click to shrink...

You know I never did compare any of the file sizes of the music between Wii U & Ultimate, I wonder just how much magic is being worked

Lets see the ground theme remix in Wii U was 6,022,176 while Ultimate is.... 1,361,376 ?
I assume this is in bytes and not kb, haha, so that's about 6mb to 1.3mb?

 

[Wonderrade]

The only nopon who deserves to be in smash is berryjammy

 

[MondoMega]

Lets see the ground theme remix in Wii U was 6,022,176 while Ultimate is.... 1,361,376 ?

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Yeah, I just checked the file sizes for that track; according to my PC Wii U is 5.75 MB while Ultimate is 1.29 MB.

 

[TimeFire]

Astral Chain Boy and Girl for Smash.

They could get in as a promo spot, depending if Sakurai had access to pre-announcement design docs or talked it out with Platinum games. Could be a cool first party newcomer

 

[r_n]

Yeah, I just checked the file sizes for that track; according to my PC Wii U is 5.75 MB while Ultimate is 1.29 MB.

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there's probably some misc compression going on from converting formats, but still that's definitely impressive, especially since sound quality is maintained.

 

[TheDinoman]

Astral Chain Boy and Girl for Smash.

They could get in as a promo spot, depending if Sakurai had access to pre-announcement design docs or talked it out with Platinum games. Could be a cool first party newcomer

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Man

Imagine Astral Chain getting a playable character before ARMS

That'd be pretty wack

 

[TimeFire]

Man

Imagine Astral Chain getting a playable character before ARMS

That'd be pretty wack

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They were lucky they weren't around to be thrown in Assist Trophy hell like ARMS

 

[MondoMega]

Can't see Astral Chain happening in a 2019 Fighters Pass.

Maybe next Smash (if the game does well) or a 2020 Fighters Pass (if it exists and the game did well).

 

[Neoxon]

Astral Chain Boy and Girl for Smash.

They could get in as a promo spot, depending if Sakurai had access to pre-announcement design docs or talked it out with Platinum games. Could be a cool first party newcomer

Click to shrink...

As mentioned before, Sakurai usually waits for new IPs to prove themselves before adding them to Smash in case they end up bombing like The Wonderful 101 did (see Pikmin, Splatoon, & now ARMS). At best, we may get Astral Chain spirits in Ultimate & a newcomer in the next Smash game if it succeeds (Fighters Pass 2 is far from a guarantee right now).

Had DLC been 100% Nintendo's call, maybe we could get an AC character. But since Sakurai still has a sizable say, Astral Chain will likely have to wait.

 

[Okabe]

Ah damn double post....Uh

hope everyone's having a great day !

 

[Okabe]

I could see Astral Chain happening

In fighter pass 2 (if there is one)

 

[Zyrox]

I still believe Rex can happen. The costume always seemed more like an excuse for Rex not making the base roster to me, not a hard deconfirm.

 

[TimeFire]

As mentioned before, Sakurai usually waits for new IPs to prove themselves before adding them to Smash in case they end up bombing like The Wonderful 101 did (see Pikmin, Splatoon, & now ARMS). At best, we may get Astral Chain spirits in Ultimate & a newcomer in the next Smash game if it succeeds (Fighters Pass 2 is far from a guarantee right now).

Had DLC been 100% Nintendo's call, maybe we could get an AC character. But since Sakurai still has a sizable say, Astral Chain will likely have to wait.

Click to shrink...

While I do agree, we don't know who had the most authority in the DLC conversation, Sakurai or Nintendo. Could Nintendo bank on a promotional character and go against Sakurai's personal views on how to choose character? Maybe. Sakurai said he only responded if a character was possible or not. I think there's a chance maybe the Astral Chain dudes get in Fighter's Pass 1, even if it is an unlikely pick.

They're the best first party picks anyway 👀

 

[TheDinoman]

I still believe Rex can happen. The costume always seemed more like an excuse for Rex not making the base roster to me, not a hard deconfirm.

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No offense, but this kind of reminds me of when K. Rool and Inkling fans still thought those characters had a chance for Smash 4's DLC even after they got the Mii costume treatment.

We have evidence that they may have been working on Ultimate's DLC early as since September. I am 100% certain that if they knew Rex was gonna be DLC, they wouldn't of bothered making the Mii outfit.

 

[r_n]

As mentioned before, Sakurai usually waits for new IPs to prove themselves before adding them to Smash in case they end up bombing like The Wonderful 101 did (see Pikmin, Splatoon, & now ARMS). At best, we may get Astral Chain spirits in Ultimate & a newcomer in the next Smash game if it succeeds (Fighters Pass 2 is far from a guarantee right now).

Had DLC been 100% Nintendo's call, maybe we could get an AC character. But since Sakurai still has a sizable say, Astral Chain will likely have to wait.

Click to shrink...

OK question because this has been bugging me.

Has Sakurai ever, once, stated that he does this. Ever? Do you have a source, there's been a lot so maybe I've just missed it. The closest I remember is "characters from series without a future are rarely chosen" which is a very different thing.

Melee had a very short development cycle and we have no idea when in the project plan Sakurai might have found out about PIkmin. Assuming that information would be privvy to him anyway. Melee barely had anything past 2000 beyond some trophies (including the pikmin trophy, obviously).

Smash 4 project plan was..what...2012 ish? Splatoon didn't start prototyping until 2013 and at that point it was Tofu blocks and then eventually Rabbits and THEN squids which themselves wne through more timing.. It pretty clearly missed the project plan for not being in a presentable state. It didn't even have a trophy or mii costume until DLC.
DLC, which had other priorities and Inkling probably would have been super compromised thanks to 3DS and the wheels for Ultimate were likely about to be in motion by the time they chose Corrin anyway

And as for ARMS

Looking at how things are now, it may seem like a strange omission that there aren't any new fighters from "Xenoblade Chronicles 2" and "ARMS". However, this is because they needed to be included from the very beginning at the planning stages.

So it was an issue from a timing aspect?

Sakurai: It's not possible to decide to include one or two more characters when you're in the thick of development.

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https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...nha-plant-character-changes-online-much-more/
This does not read like sakurai passed on ARMS because it hadn't "proven itself", it is purely he didn't know about it during the project plan. honestly if i wanted tgo read more into it, it sounds like he probably would have, but there's so much going on with ultimate that's probably just me.

If I were to say anyone in this process is holding back, it's Nintendo or its assorted teams. And even then we don't know enough about ARMS' development to say how presentable that game was so it may not even be a "we don't know if this game is worth it."


Now none of this is to say that Astral Chain will be in the fighters pass or will ever be in a fighters pass. Just that, a game needing to "prove itself" is probably not the reason why it'd be passed over. What if it was something they wanted to keep under wraps? What if the game wasn't ready? What if Sakurai DID know but wasn't inspired by them? What if they just plain liked a different idea more or another game otherwise took priority?


now all that said if you have a quote or whatever I'll recant, it's not like I have all of sakurai's ramblings memorized so maybe it just flew under my radar

 

[Illusion]

As mentioned before, Sakurai usually waits for new IPs to prove themselves before adding them to Smash in case they end up bombing like The Wonderful 101 did (see Pikmin, Splatoon, & now ARMS). At best, we may get Astral Chain spirits in Ultimate & a newcomer in the next Smash game if it succeeds (Fighters Pass 2 is far from a guarantee right now).

Had DLC been 100% Nintendo's call, maybe we could get an AC character. But since Sakurai still has a sizable say, Astral Chain will likely have to wait.

Click to shrink...

The only exception to this so far has been Corrin but he still comes from an established franchise that was soaring in popularity because of its last title Awakening.

So there is some leeway here. But, I dont want to say things or persuade anyone to believe things are set in stone. There are no rules to what characters are chosen to be reps, but there are definitely patterns we can look at to make educated guesses.

Edit: Oh shoot the post above me when on a tangent about people making rules. I'm glad I wrote that second paragraph.

 

[Zyrox]

No offense, but this kind of reminds me of when K. Rool and Inkling fans still thought those characters had a chance for Smash 4's DLC even after they got the Mii costume treatment.

We have evidence that they may have been working on Ultimate's DLC early as since September. I am 100% certain that if they knew Rex was gonna be DLC, they wouldn't of bothered making the Mii outfit.

Click to shrink...

That's telling us very little.
I'm just not a fan of people ruling something 100% out when this fanbase has fallen on its face with such a stance many times before.

 

[Neoxon]

OK question because this has been bugging me.

Has Sakurai ever, once, stated that he does this. Ever? Do you have a source, there's been a lot so maybe I've just missed it. The closest I remember is "characters from series without a future are rarely chosen" which is a very different thing.

Melee had a very short development cycle and we have no idea when in the project plan Sakurai might have found out about PIkmin. Assuming that information would be privvy to him anyway. Melee barely had anything past 2000 beyond some trophies (including the pikmin trophy, obviously).

Smash 4 project plan was..what...2012 ish? Splatoon didn't start prototyping until 2013 and at that point it was Tofu blocks and then eventually Rabbits and THEN squids which themselves wne through more timing.. It pretty clearly missed the project plan for not being in a presentable state. It didn't even have a trophy or mii costume until DLC.
DLC, which had other priorities and Inkling probably would have been super compromised thanks to 3DS and the wheels for Ultimate were likely about to be in motion by the time they chose Corrin anyway

And as for ARMS

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...nha-plant-character-changes-online-much-more/
This does not read like sakurai passed on ARMS because it hadn't "proven itself", it is purely he didn't know about it during the project plan. honestly if i wanted tgo read more into it, it sounds like he probably would have, but there's so much going on with ultimate that's probably just me.

If I were to say anyone in this process is holding back, it's Nintendo or its assorted teams. And even then we don't know enough about ARMS' development to say how presentable that game was so it may not even be a "we don't know if this game is worth it."


Now none of this is to say that Astral Chain will be in the fighters pass or will ever be in a fighters pass. Just that, a game needing to "prove itself" is probably not the reason why it'd be passed over. What if it was something they wanted to keep under wraps? What if the game wasn't ready? What if Sakurai DID know but wasn't inspired by them? What if they just plain liked a different idea more or another game otherwise took priority?


now all that said if you have a quote or whatever I'll recant, it's not like I have all of sakurai's ramblings memorized so maybe it just flew under my radar

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True, both Splatoon & Pikmin had other stuff holding them back, but this also ties into what Sakurai said about avoiding franchises with no real future. Let's say for conjecture's sake that ARMS bombed, then Sakurai would have been stuck with a franchise with no future if he took a chance on it before knowing how it turns out. In a less morbid case, Sakurai's interpretation of Spring Man could have been from a much earlier point in ARMS's development had he gone for it. There's just too many things to consider, especially considering how early he locks in the roster.

 

[Kinanza]

As mentioned before, Sakurai usually waits for new IPs to prove themselves before adding them to Smash in case they end up bombing like The Wonderful 101 did (see Pikmin, Splatoon, & now ARMS). At best, we may get Astral Chain spirits in Ultimate & a newcomer in the next Smash game if it succeeds (Fighters Pass 2 is far from a guarantee right now).

Had DLC been 100% Nintendo's call, maybe we could get an AC character. But since Sakurai still has a sizable say, Astral Chain will likely have to wait.

Click to shrink...

What really intrigues me is the DLC was decided in 2015 and P5 was released in 2016; why add Joker if they didn't know the game would succeed or not? A substitution character just in case?

 

[Pause]

True, both Splatoon & Pikmin had other stuff holding them back, but this also ties into what Sakurai said about avoiding franchises with no real future. Let's say for conjecture's sake that ARMS bombed, then Sakurai would have been stuck with a franchise with no future if he took a chance on it before knowing how it turns out. In a less morbid case, Sakurai's interpretation of Spring Man could have been from a much earlier point in ARMS's development had he gone for it. There's just too many things to consider, especially considering how early he locks in the roster.

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Ain't DLC a different story though?

 

[Neoxon]

What really intrigues me is the DLC was decided in 2015 and P5 was released in 2016; why add Joker if they didn't know the game would succeed or not? A substitution character just in case?

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DLC wasn't finalized until November 2018.

Ain't DLC a different story though?

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The entire Fighters Pass roster was still finalized before Astral Chain's release. There's no way of knowing if the game will bomb or not.

 

[MondoMega]

What really intrigues me is the DLC was decided in 2015

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It... wasn't? That's the base game, DLC was finalised shortly after the November Smash Direct.

 

[KtotheRoc]

What really intrigues me is the DLC was decided in 2015 and P5 was released in 2016; why add Joker if they didn't know the game would succeed or not? A substitution character just in case?

Click to shrink...

If the DLC were decided in 2015, we'd have gotten Yu Narukami (assuming we were still getting a Persona rep).

 

[Kinanza]

It... wasn't? That's the base game, DLC was finalised shortly after the November Smash Direct.

Click to shrink...

 

[Hikari]

Astral chain is new and can't get any characters right now I thought?

 

[TimeFire]

Astral chain is new and can't get any characters right now I thought?

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There's nothing inherently impossible about new games getting characters, it just depends if Sakurai had both access to early development information and interest in creating that particular character. It's obviously a rarer ocurrence.

 

[ned_ballad]

 

[MondoMega]

This book (Sakurai's fifth? I think?) will be real interesting. Shame that no one out there is interested in an official English localisation or release (but at least we have Push!).

 

[Neoxon]

There's nothing inherently impossible about new games getting characters, it just depends if Sakurai had both access to early development information and interest in creating that particular character. It's obviously a rarer ocurrence.

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But for all Sakurai knows, Astral Chain could bomb like The Wonderful 101 or Code Name: STEAM. There's just no way of knowing, especially as of November 2018 when he didn't have public opinion to go on. Plus it's not like the previous Nintendo-Platinum IP sold well.

If the DLC were decided in 2015, we'd have gotten Yu Narukami (assuming we were still getting a Persona rep).

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That actually brings up a good question, would they have called him Yu if he was the playable character? Granted, Smash didn't use any of the canon names (Ren, Yu, Makoto), but it's not like they can call a playable character "Persona 4 Protagonist".

 

[TimeFire]

But for all Sakurai knows, Astral Chain could bomb like The Wonderful 101 or Code Name: STEAM. There's just no way of knowing, especially as of November 2018 when he didn't have public opinion to go on. Plus it's not like the previous Nintendo-Platinum IP sold well.


That actually brings up a good question, would they have called him Yu if he was the playable character? Granted, Smash didn't use any of the canon names (Ren, Yu, Makoto), but it's not like they can call a playable character "Persona 4 Protagonist".

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I agree, but I was just explaining why it isn't an intrinsically impossible thing to happen.

 

[KtotheRoc]

That actually brings up a good question, would they have called him Yu if he was the playable character? Granted, Smash didn't use any of the canon names (Ren, Yu, Makoto), but it's not like they can call a playable character "Persona 4 Protagonist".

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*Shrug*

I suppose they could have called him something like "The Investigator," lol.