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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate had an offensive stereotype regarding Native Americans (Update: Removed)

Oct 25, 2017
7,380
#1
Update:

Good work on raising awareness team!
Original post:


Credit to everyone in the Smash thread for finding it. For reference:
The old Game and Watch game Fire Attack saw a guy defending an old west fort against racist Native American guys trying to burn the fort down. It was already referenced in the old forward smash, but by making his animations much closer to the original art they've brought forward the original's racism

I know there are Treehouse people in here, so hopefully this reaches them soon.
 
Last edited:
Oct 24, 2017
2,460
#6
Probably unintentional but still yikes... hoping it's getting patched out
I don't think it's unintentional in that they didn't realize what the image was, but they were probably referencing an already racist thing without realizing that attitudes about it have mostly changed.

Which, I mean

I suppose from the outside looking in, if you wanted to see if America still made fun of native americans and googled, you'd probably come away with the impression that we're all pretty fine with it.

Still a bad look and I hope they change it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,870
#7
Yeah, that's not acceptable.

Hopefully this thread or Twitter or something reaches Nintendo and they remove it.
 
May 22, 2018
2,484
#9
This kinda reminds me of that class in Bravely Second that got changed for the international version. If Nintendo's localization team hasn't already caught this (I'd be shocked if they haven't) I'm sure it'll be fixed in no time.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,544
#11
Is it the charicatures that makes this racist? Or the fact they’re burning the fort? Cause the cowboy on the fort doesn’t look any better/worse tbh. Honest question
 

Dyle

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,621
Wisconsin
#14
Glad my post in the main thread could be useful here. I get why they would think to do it, but I don't understand how the idea could make it this far. For better or for worse Smash isn't set up to treat subjects like racism with the respect they deserve and the idea of this being part of a celebration of the Game and Watch's role in Nintendo's history really strikes me the wrong way.

patch that out and include Misango as an apology to all natives people
Yes please
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,414
#16
I doubt they'd remove it from the Japanese version but I could see that being problematic in the NA version, yeah. If people tweet at Bill it might be possible to have it cut out in a day 1 patch or something.
 

TheOGB

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,802
#17
When keeping it real goes wrong

It's really unfortunate that Mr. Game & Watch appears to have gotten so much better between the changes in his moves' functionality and appearance, but this one... should have just stayed the way it was.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,290
#18
It'll most likely be patched in the west, replacing the native with someone else
They'll likely revert it back to standard Game & Watch design like you saw in past games. There's no other Game & Watch game that uses fire sticks or the like.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,256
#19
They'll likely revert it back to standard Game & Watch design like you saw in past games. There's no other Game & Watch game that uses fire sticks or the like.
Game & Watch Gallery 4 removed the feather and presented the characters as just being generic "bandits." They might go that route.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,151
#20
They'll likely revert it back to standard Game & Watch design like you saw in past games. There's no other Game & Watch game that uses fire sticks or the like.
In the main smash topic a user pointed out that they removed the feather in one of the G&W gallery games.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,046
Panama
#25
it's rather weird when they had a working version with no problems in past games and then they fall into this kind of problem.

luckily it should be an easy patch due to how G&W works.
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,728
#30
I doubt they'd remove it from the Japanese version but I could see that being problematic in the NA version, yeah. If people tweet at Bill it might be possible to have it cut out in a day 1 patch or something.
it doesn't work that way. most of nintendo's games are one build on all regions. they have the same code, they just play in different languages based on your system's settings. so a patch would be pushed to all carts from all regions.
i think the only nintendo games with different builds across different regions are splatoon 2 which has 3 (japan, NA ane europe) and xenoblade 2 (one for japan, one for the rest of the world, likely due to them being unable to include both japanese and english VA on the cart)

I don't see that as racist.
are you native-american?
 
Last edited:
Jul 2, 2018
16
#32
Is it the large cartoon teeth that are the primary problem? I'm unsure of which is old and which is new. Just looking for specifics
 
Last edited:
Nov 1, 2017
228
#37
It's worth noting that the character video for Pikachu has G&W old forward smash, without the sprite changes.
https://youtu.be/7LfEvnLc3mI?t=13

They either updated the sprite recently, or it's a regional difference in the Japanese version.

Either way they should switch it back to the old version. It would take very little effort to revert it and avoid the controversy.
 

Deleted member 46641

User requested account closure
Member
Aug 12, 2018
3,494
#38
Yeah, I'm wondering this too.

"Native American holding a torch" isn't enough for me, but the specific style could be offensive.
The style's stereotypical, but the game it's from is the main reason people don't like this. That game has a (presumably white) person fighting off hordes of Native American people trying to burn a fort down.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,284
Florida
#39
Holy fuck, so it was lowkey racist this entire time?

I thought is was like a match or just a torch without any real context. Even if they remove the feather it will forever be ruined for me lol.

That G&W game itself is insanely racist, holy hell, imagine if that came out today.
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,920
#41
I posted a cringed gif in the Smash thread when this first came up. And I stand by that reaction.

Hopefully this is patched out quickly.
 
May 1, 2018
563
#43
The style's stereotypical, but the game it's from is the main reason people don't like this. That game has a (presumably white) person fighting off hordes of Native American people trying to burn a fort down.
I mean... no one would know that just from this animation in Smash. I feel like it would be more conspicuous in an odd seemingly-lack-of-care put into the move if they replaced it with the old animation.
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,728
#44
They either updated the sprite recently, or it's a regional difference in the Japanese version.
there's no difference between regions. them announcing all versions have the 11 languages confirms the game is the same build across all regions. would be REALLY fucked up if the had a specific japan build just to include a racist reference
 

LOCK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
365
#45
Uh it’s not that big of a deal. Should they change it, hmm I guess so. I don’t see them intentionally being racist. But to be safe they should patch it out.

I’m Native American FYI.
 
#47
This is such a difficult issue. I'm not sure that pretending that something doesn't exist, and never did, is the way to resolve it. Perhaps a disclaimer on boot up, stating that this is a product of the time, that such a thing wouldn't be considered right today but that it has been included to highlight attitudes of that time for historic reasons (like with the old Tom and Jerry cartoons) would be better?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,037
#49
I’m not trying to de disingenuous or funny but I don’t see it. And by “I don’t see it” I mean i can’t even understand what’s going on in that second picture. Is Mr. game and watch getting strangled by a white mallet? Help me understand what’s wrong here!

I don't understand what's the problem with that image, can someone explain the context and why is offensive? First time seeing it.
You and me both!
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,728
#50
I’m not trying to de disingenuous or funny but I don’t see it. And by “I don’t see it” I mean i can’t even understand what’s going on in that second picture. Is Mr. game and watch getting strangled by a white mallet? Help me understand what’s wrong here!
I don't understand what's the problem with that image, can someone explain the context and why is offensive? First time seeing it.
isn't it explained itt? it references mr. game&watch from a game he was in where the game itself has a racist premise.