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DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,485
which is absolute bullshit. makes absolutely no sense if you think about it for five seconds. the game awards aren't so important that nintendo and sakurai are going to reorganize their entire development schedule for DLC around them.
Yeah, that sounds super fishy.

Almost, pretty much every leak regarding the development schedules/pipelines/cycles/etc. are bullshit.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,604
He and Hitagi both believe in Erdrick and Minecraft stuff being DLC. Yesterday, he said this:

Which is definitely referring to Dragon Quest. He seems to be pushing the idea that Erdrick is further along than Joker, but the latter was pushed out first in order to tie into the Game Awards.

https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...ate-jokers-reveal-getting-some-rest-and-more/

As for the character himself and how we're going about it, there'll probably be another time where I can touch on it; for now, though, it's a secret. What I'd like to talk about first is his reveal.

Nintendo had first approached me with a request: "We want you to reveal that Joker's in development at The Game Awards 2018." The timing wasn't bad at all, it really was what made the flower that was Ultimate's release bloom. Of course, I hadn't even started on development at that point, so there wasn't any gameplay we could show off.

To that end, I thought that we could reveal him through an animated cutscene.

After seeing The Game Awards' venue, I thought about how I could make the reveal interesting. I'd eventually reach the idea that Joker would infiltrate the venue and steal its "treasure" – an invitation to Smash.

I'm familiar with P5, so writing dialogue that suited the character wasn't much of an issue. Scheduling with Joker's voice actor – who's quite popular – was a different story. We had fun recording the lines, though; the atmosphere in the recording studio was pretty cheerful. We only ended up with a few lines of dialogue, though… What a waste…

I'm not sure about whether or not we'll do reveal movies for the other DLC fighters, but I'd like to do what I can (within the realm of possibility) to make sure you all enjoy them.

I don't think it's just him; I think some insiders on Smashboards are also convinced about Erdrick. Not entirely sure about that though.

Erdrick/Loto may be in. But I don't see any evidence that any of these folks actually know anything just yet.
 

Maximum Spider

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,966
Cleveland, OH
Duck Hunt has become one of my faves. The Dalmatian skin is ❤️

Also messing around with Corrin after having dismissed her as a nonsense character last game. Her animations are so absurd.
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,474
Australia
To be clear, are you referring to the 5chan leak from about two weeks back, or something else?
That's a pretty safe assumption. I personally don't buy that leak, especially after Sakurai's comments about Joker not being in a playable state yet. It's strange that some random guy would know about his stage and Jack Frost's presence in the game before Joker is even able to function.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
That's a pretty safe assumption. I personally don't buy that leak, especially after Sakurai's comments about Joker not being in a playable state yet. It's strange that some random guy would know about his stage and Jack Frost's presence in the game before Joker is even able to function.
Characters & their stages are probably developed in tandem and, at the very least, planned out. I could easily see knowing Mementos is a stagea nd that Jack Frost is planned to appear there to do a thing, without the stage being far along.

That's not to say the rumor is true or false, just that with such light details given ,it's not out of the realm of possiblity.
 

ShinobiBk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 28, 2017
10,121
Anything saying something about a character being further along than Joker is full of shit. Sakurai already told you none of the Fighter Pass was worked on before the game released. They didn't even fully decide on them until less than 2 months ago.

Vergeben grasping at straws trying to save any last bit of relevance he has.

Persona wasn't any more releavnt to Game Awards 2018 than Dragon Quest XI, which was actually nominated for an award at this exact show.
 

Maximum Spider

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,966
Cleveland, OH
Anything saying something about a character being further along than Joker is full of shit. Sakurai already told you none of the Fighter Pass was worked on before the game released. They didn't even fully decide on them until less than 2 months ago.

Vergeben grasping at straws trying to save any last bit of relevance he has.

Persona wasn't any more releavnt to Game Awards 2018 than Dragon Quest XI, which was actually nominated for an award at this exact show.
I dunno if I totally believe what Sakurai is saying especially with regards to 3rd party characters.
 

TheFireman

Banned
Dec 22, 2017
3,918
I can't really believe that part. A lot of negotiation would have been required for all of the third-party characters part of the pass.

They said all, they probably didn't have the last 1 or 2 fully negotiated yet. Non-echo characters seem to take less than a year, but more than 6 months, to develop. It seems very plausible that they didn't have all 5 decided then.
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
Heh, I'm pretty much beating everyone in my friend circle to a pulp and online ain't a problem either except a few times. My intensive Melee years are paying off!

Legit considering giving a shot at EVO next year, it would be the game I'd have the most chances not dying at round 1 and it's all kind of a dream to participate there at least once in my life.

Decisions...
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
So here's a gee-whiz. You know how spirits get a boost if the series matches the character you're using?
i was curious how the "Smash" series spirits functioned with that.
Turns out they only get the boost with the Miis, meaning Miis get to benefit from both "Mii" series (like the Dark Emperor) and "Smash" series spirits.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Hard pass on World of Light. I'll finish it eventually but the structure is boring and I don't really care much for the open world, which to me just feels like filler.

Spirit Board though? Fuck yes. It's World of Light with the fat trimmed, and just constant event matches streamed directly to my psyche. I love it, as it's so snappy and easy to get into while providing a great diversity in match-ups and rules. I like being surprised as to what's coming next.

Actually, with that in mind, that is something Smash Ultimate does over Smash 4 so well; snappiness and speed to matches. Smash 4, particularly for Wii U, fucking sucked at providing interesting stuff to with immediate accessibility. Shit was buried under convoluted menus, and classic mode was a structural mess. Smash is always at its best when it takes all of five seconds to find yourself already starting a match. Spirit Board is exactly that; single player challenges with interesting and unique themes, only a couple of menus in. Takes no time to boot it up and begin playing.
 

Tansut

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Dec 16, 2017
2,460
I don't know if all of the 5chan info is accurate, just the character and that apparently we get to choose a male and female version a la Robin and Corrin.
 

Earthstrike

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,232
So, What am I supposed to do with the playlists I made? Can I bind them to rulesets, levels? When it comes to modifications of levels music, I seem to only be able to change the frequency among a pre-selected set of songs. Why is this? Am I missing something with respect to how to utilize the sound functions within smash.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,216
Rochester, New York
So here's a gee-whiz. You know how spirits get a boost if the series matches the character you're using?
i was curious how the "Smash" series spirits functioned with that.
Turns out they only get the boost with the Miis, meaning Miis get to benefit from both "Mii" series (like the Dark Emperor) and "Smash" series spirits.
As soon as I saw "Mii" was its own series I thought that might have been the case, but I was too lazy to test it
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
Got to 1300 spirits on hand, missing the LGPE ones. Franklin Badge is absolutely hilarious against Dracula.
So here's a gee-whiz. You know how spirits get a boost if the series matches the character you're using?
i was curious how the "Smash" series spirits functioned with that.
Turns out they only get the boost with the Miis, meaning Miis get to benefit from both "Mii" series (like the Dark Emperor) and "Smash" series spirits.
Meanwhile, there's a number of characters that don't have any Legend-class primary spirits from their series to use (Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Villager and Isabelle, Wii Fit Trainer, Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, and of course, Cloud). Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Cloud don't have any primaries from their series at all, while Pac-Man and Duck Hunt only have one Advanced primary each. Wii Fit's sole primary spirit is Pet, a Novice.
 

Red Arremer

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
12,259
So, What am I supposed to do with the playlists I made? Can I bind them to rulesets, levels? When it comes to modifications of levels music, I seem to only be able to change the frequency among a pre-selected set of songs. Why is this? Am I missing something with respect to how to utilize the sound functions within smash.

Playlists are only for your own listening purpose if you bring the Switch on the go.
Stage music is pre-selected because it's music from the respective series. Mario music only goes on Mario stages, Zelda music only on Zelda stages, etc., and there's the massive "Other" category that goes on every stage that isn't tied to specific playable series (exception here are the Retro series' stages even if they do have a playable character).
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
As soon as I saw "Mii" was its own series I thought that might have been the case, but I was too lazy to test it
Their wanting to treat the Miis as both their own thing but also representative of the "mii" franchise is just ..on brand for the treatment of Miis, really.

imo the smash series spirits should get the boost with everyone. At least then Cloud could get the boost on something instead of Literally Nothing
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,735
NoVA
Their wanting to treat the Miis as both their own thing but also representative of the "mii" franchise is just ..on brand for the treatment of Miis, really.

imo the smash series spirits should get the boost with everyone. At least then Cloud could get the boost on something instead of Literally Nothing
it's kind of on brand for cloud to not work well with anyone, to be fair
 

Poody

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,440
Question. Trying to unlock all the characters with Picachu in Smash mode. I have about 30 charactersbut no new characters are appearing anymore. Do I need to unlock the rest in another game mode or play with a new character
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,735
NoVA
Question. Trying to unlock all the characters with Picachu in Smash mode. I have about 30 charactersbut no new characters are appearing anymore. Do I need to unlock the rest in another game mode or play with a new character
It becomes harder to unlock them over time, but you'll eventually get them all. Just keep at it and make sure to keep checking Games and More for Challenger's Approach if you missed any.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
Looking at the primaries, the Power seems to be a calculation of Attack + Defense + trait value.

Trait value seems like it's calculated as a percentage of the sum of Attack and Defense, though it seems like varies based on what the Trait for the primary is? Enhanceability doesn't count as a Trait, so with enhanceables and Traitless, wysiwyg.

Comparing Lv. 99s to Lv. 1s, Legends seem to have higher attack and defense values at Lv. 99 than at Lv. 1 by a factor of 2.5, while Aces improve from minimum to maximum level by a factor of 3. This factor also applies to the trait value.
 
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Stopdoor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,778
Toronto
Hard pass on World of Light. I'll finish it eventually but the structure is boring and I don't really care much for the open world, which to me just feels like filler.

Spirit Board though? Fuck yes. It's World of Light with the fat trimmed, and just constant event matches streamed directly to my psyche. I love it, as it's so snappy and easy to get into while providing a great diversity in match-ups and rules. I like being surprised as to what's coming next.

Actually, with that in mind, that is something Smash Ultimate does over Smash 4 so well; snappiness and speed to matches. Smash 4, particularly for Wii U, fucking sucked at providing interesting stuff to with immediate accessibility. Shit was buried under convoluted menus, and classic mode was a structural mess. Smash is always at its best when it takes all of five seconds to find yourself already starting a match. Spirit Board is exactly that; single player challenges with interesting and unique themes, only a couple of menus in. Takes no time to boot it up and begin playing.

Regular Smash and its forced "Rules" menu is kind of a weird damper though. And stage selection first might make sense but is also hard to adjust to. Feels like a lot of blockers before picking characters, which my brain sees as the "real" setup from years of Smash.

Backing out is also weirdly difficult since you have to do the long B press twice now?
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
Got to 1300 spirits on hand, missing the LGPE ones. Franklin Badge is absolutely hilarious against Dracula.

Meanwhile, there's a number of characters that don't have any Legend-class primary spirits from their series to use (Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Villager and Isabelle, Wii Fit Trainer, Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, and of course, Cloud). Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Cloud don't have any primaries from their series at all, while Pac-Man and Duck Hunt only have one Advanced primary each. Wii Fit's sole primary spirit is Pet, a Novice.
This got me curious to who has the most Legend Primary spirits to pull on

8 - Zelda, Pokemon
6 - Kirby, Fire Emblem
5 - Miis (1 from "Mii" and 5 from "Smash")
4 - Mario, Metroid, Earthbound, Metal Gear, Mega Man
3 - DK, Star Fox, Sonic, Street Fighter, Castlevania
2 - Yoshi, F-Zero, Kid Icarus, Punch-Out, Xenoblade, Bayonetta
1 - Game & Watch, Pikmin, Wario
0 - Ice Climber, Animal Crossing, ROB, Wii Fit, Duck Hunt, Splatoon, Pac-Man, Final Fantasy

Yoshi does not get to benefit from Mario Spirits and Mario doesn't get to use Yoshi spirits. Splatoon not having any legendary primary spirits surprised me.
 

Berordn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,735
NoVA
Regular Smash and its forced "Rules" menu is kind of a weird damper though. And stage selection first might make sense but is also hard to adjust to. Feels like a lot of blockers before picking characters, which my brain sees as the "real" setup from years of Smash.

Backing out is also weirdly difficult since you have to do the long B press twice now?
Rules menu is a change, but it's honestly the biggest QOL improvement the series has ever seen and it makes jumping in way more accessible than you'd think at first glance. If you're the type who just plays time matches with items on it's probably no better, but prior to Ultimate you had to pick Smash mode, go to the options screen, set it to Stock, change options, turn off items... now it's just a menu of last saved options and you can jump right in with way less effort.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
Comparing Lv. 99s to Lv. 1s, Legends seem to have higher attack and defense values at Lv. 99 than at Lv. 1 by a factor of 2.5, while Aces improve from minimum to maximum level by a factor of 3. This factor also applies to the trait value.
For Novice spirits, the value of this factor is 5. No maxed Advanced spirits for comparison on hand currently, gonna guess they improve by a factor of 4.

Effectively, lower-ranked spirits improve more from leveling up proportional to their base stats than higher-ranked spirits do. Higher-ranked spirits will still end up much better at Lv. 99 because their base stats are much higher to begin with, but the gap is less than I expected.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,278
Houston, TX
Must.....get to......Elite Smash

Every time I get close to the magical 2.5 million number, Chrom gets fucked up by a random Young Link.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
Advanced spirits do improve by a factor of 4, it looks like.

Based on the rounding errors I'm getting, I would say the actual "base stats" are those of the fully-powered, Lv. 99 spirit, with the stat values at lower levels scaled down from there.
Trait value seems like it's calculated as a percentage of the sum of Attack and Defense, though it seems like varies based on what the Trait for the primary is? Enhanceability doesn't count as a Trait, so with enhanceables and Traitless, wysiwyg.
Interestingly, even negative traits - such as a weakness to an element like water or fire, or traits that lower jumping power or movement speed - still increase the power rating of the primary spirit. I would've thought that taking a hindering trait would let the spirit have a lower power rating, but that is not the case.
 
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r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
Advanced spirits do improve by a factor of 4, it looks like.

Based on the rounding errors I'm getting, I would say the actual "base stats" are those of the fully-powered, Lv. 99 spirit, with the stat values at lower levels scaled down from there.

Interestingly, even negative traits - such as a weakness to an element like water or fire, or traits that lower jumping power or movement speed - still increase the power rating of the primary spirit. I would've thought that taking a hindering trait would let the spirit have a lower power rating, but that is not the case.
I can see the logic. You're already taking on a spirit with a weakness, having a rating debuff ontop of that is just insult to injury.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
I can see the logic. You're already taking on a spirit with a weakness, having a rating debuff ontop of that is just insult to injury.
Power rating in itself is meaningless except for determining what rewards you get from a fight. What (partially) determines power ratings is the spirit's attack and defense stats, which you want to be higher - the impossible ideal is high attack and defense stats with low power ratings for maximum rewards at minimum effort.
 
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