Super Smash Bros. Ultimate |OT2| Everyone Is Here!

Mar 26, 2018
1,435
I have been having trouble with Villager's Pocket special in that for some projectiles I Pocket, I send them back out immediately. I guess I have a habit of double tapping B to Pocket and the game just treats it as me throwing projectiles.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
Can you really call this an exaggerated example when this is basically what happened to Kid Icarus?

After Brawl released, if you told people that there should be more KI characters, they'd call you crazy. And I saw more than one person saying that Pit shouldn't stick around for too long because his series was dead. But as soon as KIU was announced, suddenly it became a foregone conclusion that Palutena should get in at minimum.
Oh I know, but I specifically picked Ice Climber because it's very unlikely Nintendo ever will release a sequel to it haha.
Though I do think they could if they put their mind to it.

No Wonder Red? Booooooo!
I never played the game, and since it's only on Wii U, unless it gets a port, I likely never will. Plus it's not a genre I'm particularly into.
Hence not on the wishlist section. :P

I will accept a Metal Mario echo of Doc and Meta Crystal for the 20th anniversary if they want.

And/or the return of the Fan item
All of these please!
 
Oct 27, 2017
87
Can anyone recommend me a gamecube controller from Amazon USA please? I've been reading some reviews about the Horipad and some others but they complain about the analogs registering run instead of tilt and the L-R not being analog.
 
Oct 29, 2017
760
Los Angeles
You’re not only one. Maybe you should try to set your stick sensitivity to high and see what happens.

I have few weird errors like sometime when I tried to recover and it occasionally turns my character to face the opposite direction.
You know what my official black Gamecube controller(with Smash branding) that I purchased when Smash Wii U came out seems to be the issue. I'm going to do more tests but I think it's the main issue.

I had 2 of them but gave one away several years ago when I didn't think I needed any more. I will buy another and test it out and compare it with the pro controller and my super old gamecube controllers.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,785
Can you really call this an exaggerated example when this is basically what happened to Kid Icarus?

After Brawl released, if you told people that there should be more KI characters, they'd call you crazy. And I saw more than one person saying that Pit shouldn't stick around for too long because his series was dead. But as soon as KIU was announced, suddenly it became a foregone conclusion that Palutena should get in at minimum.
Right after Brawl released, I ran some polls on whatever site I was using at the time, where people would nominate a character (limited to 1st party characters), and the rest of the users would vote simply "yes" or "no" (could give reasons too, for discussion), and we ran through like a hundred characters (many obscure random things too).

I'd love to still have the results, but I remember Palutena was in the top 10, and I think Medusa too (this was before KI:U of course). I know Ridley, Isaac, K. Rool, Dixie, Black Shadow, and Lip were in the top 10 too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,566
Still kinda disappointed Daisy, Dark Samus, and Richter weren't really any different in serious, tangible ways from their progenitors. If I were in charge of changing them up (but still keeping them Echoes), I think I might do these:

Daisy
--Has another midair jump instead of floating as a reference to her double jump from Super Mario Run. Her air speed is increased to slightly faster than Peach's to compensate for no floating. This... might not be balanced at all, but I'm going for it.
--No Toads at all. She has Peach's old grab, pummel, and throws. Her neutral special now has her protected by a black and white Gameboy Super Mario Land sprite of Bombshell Koopa, Goombo, or Tokotoko, each with their own differing counterattack--Goombo would have the weakest, Tokotoko with the strongest, and the Bombshell Koopa's counterattack is an explosion that can more easily hit other players as well.
--Maybe replace her Vegetables with these enemy sprites as well, spawning one in her hands to be thrown. Goombo would be the most common by far, being little different from a normal Vegetable. Bombshell Koopa would be less common and explode on impact, and Tokotoko would be very uncommon and very strong when thrown, perhaps even go through enemies. Her equivalent of the stitch-faced vegetable. She'd need a new animation to spawn them, as pulling them from the ground seems kinda bizarre.

Dark Samus
--Change normal Samus's up smash attack to the melee counter attack from Samus Returns, a quick get off me type move with a hitbox similar to Cloud's up-smash, while Dark Samus's up smash remains Samus's old cover fire move (though buff it so it's not completely overshadowed by Samus's improved up-smash).
--A new up special that's functionally close to Fox or Falco's up specials, based on her Shinespark like divebomb move from her fights in Metroid Prime 2 and 3. She charges up phazon energy around her before rocketing in the chosen direction. Probably closer to Falco's distance than Fox's to balance her in comparison to Samus, who can't choose her direction with the Screw Attack.
--Highlight the tiny range differences between their forward smash attacks more. Increase the range on Samus's some (it honestly looks like it has more range than it actually does) and decrease the range on Dark Samus's some but make it slightly stronger to compensate.
--Just as some additional visual differences, have her shoot her Grapple Beam from her left hand as Samus does in the Prime games (this would require reanimating her pummel and throws as well) and have her Missiles and Bombs explode with Phazon energy instead of normal explosions, the normal explosions feel like weird vestiges in her current moveset.

Richter
--Alter his forward smash to be the Flame Whip ability, his Item Crash when no sub-weapon was equipped in Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. The whip would be alight with fire and hit multiple times and do more damage, but to compensate it would have shorter range than Simon's more straightforward forward smash. This change could maybe be placed on all his Smash attacks, or maybe just his forward and up smashes (a shorter ranged Belmont down smash like this would be more difficult to read, visually, I think).
--Change his Holy Water functionality a bit. Have his come out a bit faster and have his fire move forward when it hits the ground, while sacrificing its duration and trapping abilities. Basically, make hit fewer times at the cost of moving forward and coming out faster, looking something like his Holy Water usage from Symphony of the Night.
--A new Final Smash, Hydro Storm, the Holy Water item crash from Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. Has him call a wide column of falling water to appear around him. Enemies caught in it would take a bunch of damage before being launched off when it ends in a bolt of lightning maybe? He can direct it slightly left and right, making it look like wind is pushing the rain about. Kinda like Ness/Lucas or Lucario's in functionality, maybe.

I think that would do it.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
17,733
Western New York
I wouldn't have minded if they had made Dark Samus' up special functionally the same as Screw Attack, but it's an electric based headbutt/tackle upwards

Screw Attack is one of the moves on DS that feels... wrong on Dark Samus because it's distinctly a Samus thing and DS cannot do it.

Probably could have made her slightly faster, but slightly lighter as well. She feels a bit too heavy for how she moves around compared to Samus.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,043
Still kinda disappointed Daisy, Dark Samus, and Richter weren't really any different in serious, tangible ways from their progenitors. If I were in charge of changing them up (but still keeping them Echoes), I think I might do these:

Daisy
--Has another midair jump instead of floating as a reference to her double jump from Super Mario Run. Her air speed is increased to slightly faster than Peach's to compensate for no floating. This... might not be balanced at all, but I'm going for it.
--No Toads at all. She has Peach's old grab, pummel, and throws. Her neutral special now has her protected by a black and white Gameboy Super Mario Land sprite of Bombshell Koopa, Goombo, or Tokotoko, each with their own differing counterattack--Goombo would have the weakest, Tokotoko with the strongest, and the Bombshell Koopa's counterattack is an explosion that can more easily hit other players as well.
--Maybe replace her Vegetables with these enemy sprites as well, spawning one in her hands to be thrown. Goombo would be the most common by far, being little different from a normal Vegetable. Bombshell Koopa would be less common and explode on impact, and Tokotoko would be very uncommon and very strong when thrown, perhaps even go through enemies. Her equivalent of the stitch-faced vegetable. She'd need a new animation to spawn them, as pulling them from the ground seems kinda bizarre.

Dark Samus
--Change normal Samus's up smash attack to the melee counter attack from Samus Returns, a quick get off me type move with a hitbox similar to Cloud's up-smash, while Dark Samus's up smash remains Samus's old cover fire move (though buff it so it's not completely overshadowed by Samus's improved up-smash).
--A new up special that's functionally close to Fox or Falco's up specials, based on her Shinespark like divebomb move from her fights in Metroid Prime 2 and 3. She charges up phazon energy around her before rocketing in the chosen direction. Probably closer to Falco's distance than Fox's to balance her in comparison to Samus, who can't choose her direction with the Screw Attack.
--Highlight the tiny range differences between their forward smash attacks more. Increase the range on Samus's some (it honestly looks like it has more range than it actually does) and decrease the range on Dark Samus's some but make it slightly stronger to compensate.
--Just as some additional visual differences, have her shoot her Grapple Beam from her left hand as Samus does in the Prime games (this would require reanimating her pummel and throws as well) and have her Missiles and Bombs explode with Phazon energy instead of normal explosions, the normal explosions feel like weird vestiges in her current moveset.

Richter
--Alter his forward smash to be the Flame Whip ability, his Item Crash when no sub-weapon was equipped in Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. The whip would be alight with fire and hit multiple times and do more damage, but to compensate it would have shorter range than Simon's more straightforward forward smash. This change could maybe be placed on all his Smash attacks, or maybe just his forward and up smashes (a shorter ranged Belmont down smash like this would be more difficult to read, visually, I think).
--Change his Holy Water functionality a bit. Have his come out a bit faster and have his fire move forward when it hits the ground, while sacrificing its duration and trapping abilities. Basically, make hit fewer times at the cost of moving forward and coming out faster, looking something like his Holy Water usage from Symphony of the Night.
--A new Final Smash, Hydro Storm, the Holy Water item crash from Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. Has him call a wide column of falling water to appear around him. Enemies caught in it would take a bunch of damage before being launched off when it ends in a bolt of lightning maybe? He can direct it slightly left and right, making it look like wind is pushing the rain about. Kinda like Ness/Lucas or Lucario's in functionality, maybe.

I think that would do it.
These are good ideas! For Daisy I think the best thing to do is to change her main attributes to make her easier to play, as Peach and Daisy right now require a lot of precision to get to their best potential.

Although...one of the established echo fighter guidelines is that they have pretty much the same attributes and aren't balanced against the whole cast...
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
I feel like Dark Samus as she is should be the gold standard for echoes. Sure everyone wishes they could be Ken, but...

It's amazing how far her animations take her in making her stand out from Samus, even before taking account of her other differences. Then she gets the electric thing, her roll changes, her standing & jumping hitboxes, the hilarity of a better conencting up smash with a smaller forward smash. Just enough to make her better samus stand out despite being a relatively quikie character.
Chrom's up there with her, I think, it's just his animations don't pop as much because, well, he's chrom and she's dark samus. The changed up special helps. And the hitbox thing is likely something not a lot of other characters would ever get.

For a quick & easy thing I'd have given Daisy a different effect on some of her attacks. It's a shame "Grass" isn't really a thing anymore, that'd fit with the daisy effects over Peach's "magic" (or whatever it's called).
And for richter i'd have added "aura" effects to some of his other attacks. And given him a different final smash.

also in this universe "aura" and "grass' would do different hit stun things.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,043
I feel like Dark Samus as she is should be the gold standard for echoes. Sure everyone wishes they could be Ken, but...

It's amazing how far her animations take her in making her stand out from Samus, even before taking account of her other differences. Then she gets the electric thing, her roll changes, her standing & jumping hitboxes, the hilarity of a better conencting up smash with a smaller forward smash. Just enough to make her better samus stand out despite being a relatively quikie character.
Chrom's up there with her, I think, it's just his animations don't pop as much because, well, he's chrom and she's dark samus. The changed up special helps. And the hitbox thing is likely something not a lot of other characters would ever get.

For a quick & easy thing I'd have given Daisy a different effect on some of her attacks. It's a shame "Grass" isn't really a thing anymore, that'd fit with the daisy effects over Peach's "magic" (or whatever it's called).
And for richter i'd have added "aura" effects to some of his other attacks. And given him a different final smash.

also in this universe "aura" and "grass' would do different hit stun things.
Wow...was Daisy really that bad of an echo fighter?
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,733
Western New York
I feel like Dark Samus as she is should be the gold standard for echoes. Sure everyone wishes they could be Ken, but...

It's amazing how far her animations take her in making her stand out from Samus, even before taking account of her other differences. Then she gets the electric thing, her roll changes, her standing & jumping hitboxes, the hilarity of a better conencting up smash with a smaller forward smash. Just enough to make her better samus stand out despite being a relatively quikie character.
Chrom's up there with her, I think, it's just his animations don't pop as much because, well, he's chrom and she's dark samus. The changed up special helps. And the hitbox thing is likely something not a lot of other characters would ever get.

For a quick & easy thing I'd have given Daisy a different effect on some of her attacks. It's a shame "Grass" isn't really a thing anymore, that'd fit with the daisy effects over Peach's "magic" (or whatever it's called).
And for richter i'd have added "aura" effects to some of his other attacks. And given him a different final smash.

also in this universe "aura" and "grass' would do different hit stun things.
Dark Samus is great because she "feels" different than Samus, even if they're basically exactly the same. It goes to show that a character is more than just its stats, and that well made animations can be enough of a difference to justify a character without major changes.

Also Dark Samus can hit a crouching Pichu with a fully charged shot, and Samus can't. So that's good too.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,043
Dark Samus is great because she "feels" different than Samus, even if they're basically exactly the same.

Also Dark Samus can hit a crouching Pichu with a fully charged shot, and Samus can't. So that's good too.
That's...probably a bug, and it doesn't affect Kirby. Their animations do mess with hitboxes somehow.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,733
Western New York
That's...probably a bug, and it doesn't affect Kirby. Their animations do mess with hitboxes somehow.
It's not a bug, all of Dark Samus' projectiles are lower to the ground than Samus'. Charged Shot is the only one that matters and it's only on one specific character crouching. I don't think there's any instance where (slightly) lower missiles matter.

Not every weird quirk based on an animation difference is a bug.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Dark Samus is great because she "feels" different than Samus, even if they're basically exactly the same.

Also Dark Samus can hit a crouching Pichu with a fully charged shot, and Samus can't. So that's good too.
yeah this is what i want to get at. Basically the same but feels different without it necessarily being a placebo like Richter ("oh he's slower/faster" "oh his whip doesnt go as far" "oh his projectiles go further" "are you sure he's not lighter/heavier?")


And also Dark Pit should have gotten that treatment too, damn it. I want smug facial animations and scoffs and changed idles, come on sakurai where is the bias.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,733
Western New York
Ironically, I play better as Samus than Dark Samus and I can't figure out why and it annoys me because I love Dark Samus

I can hover around 2.5 million GSP with Samus, but I can't consistently get out of 2.0 with Dark Samus...
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
Ironically, I play better as Samus than Dark Samus and I can't figure out why and it annoys me because I love Dark Samus
I'm pretty much the opposite (though I love both Samuses... Samii?).
I think that one of the reasons I have an easier time with Dark Samus is that the (double) jumping animation is a bit clearer for me to allow me to gauge where she is and where the hitbox of a move I use is going to come out compared to Samus curling up.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Smash 4 didn't really do it* but it'd be neat if they introduced some minor tweaks specific to echoes in future updates.


*Dark Pit mostly just tweaked his 2 specials. And some nebulous "hitbox tweaks" in one of the early patches. Lucina got what Marth got beyond some very minor damage updates.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,733
Western New York
I'm not 100% sure, but I think Dark Samus' yellow skin is supposed to be an SA-X color

The zoom in on her face on the victory screen is similar to SA-X, and the Dark Samus costume has Samus-esque colors, but slightly different. Blueish green glowing parts, red accents, but mostly a yellowish color.
 
Dec 28, 2017
4,922
I'm beginning to enjoy playing Little Mac a lot. I started playing him with friends online as a joke but I'm learning how to use him better and better. Big shame that if he basically gets edgeguarded at all, he dies.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
Chrom's up there with her, I think, it's just his animations don't pop as much because, well, he's chrom and she's dark samus. The changed up special helps. And the hitbox thing is likely something not a lot of other characters would ever get.
I mean, they HAD to do give Chrom something other than Dolphin Slash (or whatever Roy's equivalent thereof is called), otherwise he would have been Lucina with like... a new jab and that's about it, lol.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Dark Samus' yellow skin is supposed to be an SA-X color

The zoom in on her face on the victory screen is similar to SA-X, and the Dark Samus costume has Samus-esque colors, but slightly different. Blueish green glowing parts, red accents, but mostly a yellowish color.
Nah I'm 99% it's Gold Torizo. It matches the colour palette perfectly.


The reddish highlights could be in reference to regular Torizo, though:


The zoom victory pose definitely is in reference to SA-X though, there's no doubt about that.
 
Dec 28, 2017
4,922
For anyone playing on Omega's and Battlefields what's your favorite stage?

I love Big Blue Battlefield with the new remix playing.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
I mean, they HAD to do give Chrom something other than Dolphin Slash (or whatever Roy's equivalent thereof is called), otherwise he would have been Lucina with like... a new jab and that's about it, lol.
Roy & Marth actually have several differences beyond their sweet/sours. Roy falls faster, he runs faster, he has faster air speed, he's heavier, some of his tilts and such are different, some of their similar moves (like their up smash) function differently. Roy's damage output is higher with sweet spots and it's not like a 2/4 -> 2.5/3.5 type thing so the averages on Chrom would wind up higher regardless.

That said giving him the up special, aside from being a joke, being given so he had more at-a-glance differences from our sea of marths makes sense. If we had gotten another Mario, I wonder if they'd give him a completely different up special as well...
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,951
Battlefield Kongo Falls, Distant Planet and Mushroom Kingdom U get bonus points for entwining the three platforms with background elements.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
For anyone playing on Omega's and Battlefields what's your favorite stage?

I love Big Blue Battlefield with the new remix playing.
It's cliche but I still love GCO just because of how it condenses the stage into a single representation platform.

I maintain that the Smash 4 omega, with a few platforms thrown in and maybe a minecart hazard, wouldn't have been out of place in Melee.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,608
For anyone playing on Omega's and Battlefields what's your favorite stage?

I love Big Blue Battlefield with the new remix playing.
Seeing as the only thing that matters with these is music:

Dracula's Castle, Wiley Castle, Moray Towers, Any of Metroid Stages, Any of the Zelda stages.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
Roy & Marth actually have several differences beyond their sweet/sours. Roy falls faster, he runs faster, he has faster air speed, he's heavier, some of his tilts and such are different, some of their similar moves (like their up smash) function differently. Roy's damage output is higher with sweet spots and it's not like a 2/4 -> 2.5/3.5 type thing so the averages on Chrom would wind up higher regardless.

That said giving him the up special, aside from being a joke, being given so he had more at-a-glance differences from our sea of marths makes sense. If we had gotten another Mario, I wonder if they'd give him a completely different up special as well...
I was talking about animations. I actually went and checked Roy's animations. There's very few differences - Jab, Down Air, and Neutral B are the only fully unique ones as far as I can tell. Everything else, including the tilts, is either identical or very slightly different: DTilt is the same, Marth's UTilt is a bit wider and the FTilt is a backhand swing and wider range. The FSmash also has a slightly varied hitbox, since Roy does this diagonal slash rather than the vertical one, and of course the USmash for Roy has the fire while Marth's is only the stab.

That's what I meant with having to add something for Chrom in order to be differentiated more from Marth than just Roy's unique moves, otherwise he would be playing like Lucina but with Roy's Jab, DAir and Neutral B and some other minute differences to some moves, weight, speed and such.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,112
On a wired connection and keep getting “a communication error has occurred”. What does this mean? The last lobby I was in only me and another person got pushed out by this error and the other 4 went into a match.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,265

Interesting, wonder if they might have planned extra costumes at some point. Do we know what the general trend in Smash 4's code was?
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,648

Interesting, wonder if they might have planned extra costumes at some point. Do we know what the general trend in Smash 4's code was?
That would be cool.
Though it might be dummies to secure that every one of the 8 costumes is covered. Or perhaps they planned on having more for some characters. Mario losing the Fire Mario and Wario colour palettes - costumes he had since Smash 64 mind you - for the Builder and Wedding costumes, and Mac having 16 costumes in 4 seems like some weird stuff. I dunno.

Speaking of costumes, I'm still disappointed that only the Koopalings and Alph got their own costume names. They could've done so with Blood Falcon and Dark Meta Knight at the very least.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
That would be cool.
Though it might be dummies to secure that every one of the 8 costumes is covered. Or perhaps they planned on having more for some characters. Mario losing the Fire Mario and Wario colour palettes - costumes he had since Smash 64 mind you - for the Builder and Wedding costumes, and Mac having 16 costumes in 4 seems like some weird stuff. I dunno.

Speaking of costumes, I'm still disappointed that only the Koopalings and Alph got their own costume names. They could've done so with Blood Falcon and Dark Meta Knight at the very least.
I think Blood Falcon would have gotten his own call if they had the voice clips for it. So the real question is why they didn't get the voice clips for it. I mean, they really may as well, at this point. Especially with how often they use the dang costume.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
I think Blood Falcon would have gotten his own call if they had the voice clips for it. So the real question is why they didn't get the voice clips for it. I mean, they really may as well, at this point. Especially with how often they use the dang costume.
Yeah, I dunno. They wouldn't even need the old Falcon voice actor to come in for new lines, they just need some guy with a similar but slightly raspier and deeper voice or something and you're good to go.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Yeah, I dunno. They wouldn't even need the old Falcon voice actor to come in for new lines, they just need some guy with a similar but slightly raspier and deeper voice or something and you're good to go.
Isn't Falcon voiced by the still-active VO (Vegeta's VO, right?), it's not even like he's necessarily unavailable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,071
Bought a Mario and Pikachu amiibo today to go with my Link one cause they were the only ones at the Target I went to. Felt like training amiibos.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
I'm legit excited for the Piranha Plant amiibo.

Isn't Falcon voiced by the still-active VO (Vegeta's VO, right?), it's not even like he's necessarily unavailable.
I have absolutely no clue, especially not about who voices what characters in anime, let alone Dragonball.
 

r_n

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Man, all the more shame you can't set the StreetSmash theme on any stage.
Custom stages would have given so much playlist-only music a home!
Plot twist, the Home Run Contest stage will be an actual stage and upon download it will add the random assortment of Smash songs that only play in the soundtest to the smash stages
 

BGBW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,985
Battlefield Kongo Falls, Distant Planet and Mushroom Kingdom U get bonus points for entwining the three platforms with background elements.
Gamer, Lylat Cruise and technically Flat Zone X do the same too. It's a nice touch.

Shame omega Pirate Ship was a downgrade.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,551
Elysium
I FINALLY got into Elite smash for the first time with my main Zelda..... 2.9 million and thirty thousand gsp later..... I dont know how to approach elite smash now and I have a feeling i'll be kicked out fast because my Zelda needs work. Why is it so hard to win sometimes? Man, getting to elite was an ordeal and i'm not even kidding. I can't do crap if I fight a good chrom or Roy... bonus rage points if it's a teabagging pichu that destroys me.

PS: Teabaggers are so childish.