Super Smash Bros. Ultimate |OT2| Everyone Is Here!

[r_n]

You know, I really wanna see Melee's project plan. Smash 64 came out 1999 so Melee had to start planning proper later that year and GS are dropping then.

We know a lot about Melee's considerations but most of those are either things briefly considered and thrown away (Takamaru, Ayumi, Mach Rider, probably Rare characters as a whole), Third Party requests who missed the boat due to timing (Snake, Sonic), & Retro Reps who were in competition with Ice Climber (Urban Champion, Bubbles, Excitebiker).
But in terms of characters we know were probably planned from the start, it's basically just Wario ("If we could have added one or two more characters, then maybe he would have made it. He was certainly high up on the list of characters we considered but ultimately he didn't make it." )and Lucas (who would've replaced Ness).

I'd be surprised if those were the only ones so maybe a "proper" gen 2 Pokemon WAS in consideration at the time?

Well even if not (could be Mewtwo was the only Pokemon marked down & Sprout Tower & pokeballs would've just been the gen 2 "rep") it'd be cool to know some of the mindset going on. Melee's development period was one hell of a time:
-short dev cycle
-the Rare buyout
-hardware generation transition
-game delays aplenty, doubt Lucas was the only causality of that.

 

[Weiss]

TIL

- Little Mac can DSmash twice before Lucas can get his throw off.

- Roy's constant screaming is the most annoying part of the four Marth crutch characters.

- The game really likes putting me up against laggy ass Ganondorfs.

 

[Professor Beef]

I don't know if I agree with putting Isabel *that* low on that tier list on the previous page (and this is speaking as someone who hates animal crossing). Also, Shiek is too high. Ryu is...about where I expect. The new system changes did him and Ken no favors.

 

[Nocturnowl]

All that pre-release hubbub about K.Rool being the new king of heavies and now...welp.
Can't see him ever getting buffs while his online performance remains solid though.

I don't know if I agree with putting Isabel *that* low on that tier list on the previous page (and this is speaking as someone who hates animal crossing). Also, Shiek is too high. Ryu is...about where I expect. The new system changes did him and Ken no favors.

Click to shrink...

Don't you main villager? guess you embraced the hate!

 

[Nature's finest mango]

So, I finally paid for the internet subscription some days ago (tetris 99...).
Had a few minutes to kill today, had the switch near the couch and Smash cart already in.

First attempt to play, waiting for five minutes, no opponents.

Tried again, insta-match, 10 seconds later I'm facing this Dark Pit.
And then... INPUT LAAAAAAAAAAAG.

Lasted the whole game. Reminded me of the WiiU. Thought things would have been better.
Is it always like this?

Only played this one match, so...

 

[Apopheniac]

So, I finally paid for the internet subscription some days ago (tetris 99...).
Had a few minutes to kill today, had the switch near the couch and Smash cart already in.

First attempt to play, waiting for five minutes, no opponents.

Tried again, insta-match, 10 seconds later I'm facing this Dark Pit.
And then... INPUT LAAAAAAAAAAAG.

Lasted the whole game. Reminded me of the WiiU. Thought things would have been better.
Is it always like this?

Only played this one match, so...

Click to shrink...

buy a LAN adapter

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cable-Matters-USB-2-0-to-10-100-Fast-Ethernet-Adapter-in-White/51755898

 

[Professor Beef]

Don't you main villager? guess you embraced the hate!

Click to shrink...

He's a means to an end, my fine feathered fiend.

 

[Boiled Goose]

So, I finally paid for the internet subscription some days ago (tetris 99...).
Had a few minutes to kill today, had the switch near the couch and Smash cart already in.

First attempt to play, waiting for five minutes, no opponents.

Tried again, insta-match, 10 seconds later I'm facing this Dark Pit.
And then... INPUT LAAAAAAAAAAAG.

Lasted the whole game. Reminded me of the WiiU. Thought things would have been better.
Is it always like this?

Only played this one match, so...

Click to shrink...

It varies match to match. Some matches almost lag free. Others unplayable

 

[r_n]

I'm so glad we didn't have to wait long for Pichu, I've been dying to see the sheer improvement on this one for a while.
Pichu got new *checks notes* everything. I'd say the only thing really missing from Melee is that Pichu doesn't sleep when it crouches anymore.


Also I think Pichu might be the most expressive character in the game? Like every single animation has Pichu react in a very expressive, animated & notable way.

 

[ned_ballad]

Remember when people didn't want Pichu back in Smash because it was unpopular and pointless as a joke character

Yea... that sure changed lol

 

[Wonderrade]

All that pre-release hubbub about K.Rool being the new king of heavies and now...welp.
Can't see him ever getting buffs while his online performance remains solid though.

Click to shrink...

I mean, I could see K.Rool's win rate dropping enough to get buffs. I feel like he isnt nearly the terror he used to be. It was just poor timing he got nerfed. I also feel like I dont hear people complain about him like they used too

 

[Berordn]

Remember when people didn't want Pichu back in Smash because it was unpopular and pointless as a joke character

Yea... that sure changed lol

Click to shrink...

i always said that the only way he'd be worth bringing back is if they made him a proper glass cannon and made those electric attacks really, really hurt

so i'ma tally this one as a win on my chalkboard

 

[r_n]

Remember when people didn't want Pichu back in Smash because it was unpopular and pointless as a joke character

Yea... that sure changed lol

Click to shrink...

Amazing what an adorable face lift and not being the designated joke character do for someone's popularity

My favorite pichu thing is smash wiki, which generally goes with "this character has seen buffs but also some nerfs but is over all buffed/nerfed" except with Pichu it is "exponentially buffed in its transition to Ultimate. "

 

[ned_ballad]

Pichu's biggest buff is that it no longer vibrates awkwardly when running

 

[r_n]

Pichu's biggest buff is that it no longer vibrates awkwardly when running

Click to shrink...

If it wasnt for Ganondorf literally being the last character added I'd be convinced Pichu was just because of how....awkward that model is. It's very stiff, clips through stuff and a lto of the animations are just vibrating. Its like an actio nfigure with minimal articulation.

 

[Clefargle]

Anyone else notice that some dash attacks (especially the multi-hit ones) allow you to run through opponents and other dash attacks don't? In my own experience, I think Olimar, Samus, Snake, and Diddy's Work but not Mewtwo, Young Link, link, or Mii Swordfighter.

 

[r_n]

Does it seem weird to anyone else that there's a large number of songs that just have no credit to them?

• Smash 4's original songs, such as Battlefield, the Gallery and so on, have no Arrangement Supervisor or compsoer listed, even though they DO have them in Smash 4's sound test. As an example,Junichi Nakatsuru handled Battlefield but you only know this thanks to Smash 4's
• Many of Melee's original songs are unattributed in all games they show up in. Melee's iconic Menus are only attributed to Hirokazu Ando & Shogo Sakai in Melee. Meanwhile not even Melee attributes anyone to, say, Final Destination.
• The only Brawl-original song with actual credits is the Main theme. Brawl, Smash 4, Ultimate, doesn't matter none of them say anything other than the copyright to Nintendo.
• Hirokazu Ando is the only composer on Smash 64, so it's not hard to figure out, but her original compositions still go uncredited.
• The assorted retro medlies have never been attributed to anyone. Someone had to be responsible for selecting which tracks go into the medley and where, but I guess we'll just never know

Just seems...off.

Anyone else notice that some dash attacks (especially the multi-hit ones) allow you to run through opponents and other dash attacks don't? In my own experience, I think Olimar, Samus, Snake, and Diddy's Work but not Mewtwo, Young Link, link, or Mii Swordfighter.

Click to shrink...

I think it might be Z Axis weirdness. It definitely happened with some characters in Smash 4 where's there's a part where there is just no hit or hurtbox so they just slip by before anything happens.
I remember it being really annoying in multi man smash both here and in smash 4 if it's the same thing I'm thinking of

 

[Professor Beef]

All that pre-release hubbub about K.Rool being the new king of heavies and now...welp.
Can't see him ever getting buffs while his online performance remains solid though.

Click to shrink...

People always fail to see it, but in any and every fighting game during the first couple months you're always going to see a meta revolving around big guys (not to be confused with The Big Guy). They're safe, hit hard, and are hard to kill. Once things start settling down and people start figuring out the busted stuff, that's when heavy usage goes down.

I think K.Rool is in a good place at the moment, it's just that the meta is leaving him by.

 

[MegaRockEXE]

How do I battle anyone in this thread? I want to see how I stack up against the people who still post here.

 

[Clefargle]

I think it might be Z Axis weirdness. It definitely happened with some characters in Smash 4 where's there's a part where there is just no hit or hurtbox so they just slip by before anything happens.
I remember it being really annoying in multi man smash both here and in smash 4 if it's the same thing I'm thinking of

Click to shrink...

I should have included, "on sheild". I'm talking about when dash attacks let you run through shielding grounded opponents.

How do I battle anyone in this thread? I want to see how I stack up against the people who still post here.

Click to shrink...

I'll play wit ya. What time zone are you?

 

[Nocturnowl]

People always fail to see it, but in any and every fighting game during the first couple months you're always going to see a meta revolving around big guys (not to be confused with The Big Guy). They're safe, hit hard, and are hard to kill. Once things start settling down and people start figuring out the busted stuff, that's when heavy usage goes down.

I think K.Rool is in a good place at the moment, it's just that the meta is leaving him by.

Click to shrink...

It really is like the life cycle of a new Vinny Mac heavyweight!
Really I just want to see him used just a little bit in the competitive scene, but in general being combo fodder in a land of quick aerials isn't ever gonna be ideal.

I can still remember my scrubby (well, scrubbier) SF4 beginnings where Zangief seemed like the most potent thing known to man, look at that health! that damage! that lariat! he's too good!

 

[MegaRockEXE]

I'll play wit ya. What time zone are you?

Click to shrink...

I'm Pacific time. Will that work?

 

[Clefargle]

I'm Pacific time. Will that work?

Click to shrink...

We can try, I'm in Europe and am waiting on my LAN adapter, but maybe the lag won't be insurmountable. We can try whenever you like, check your inbox for my code.

 

[Anth0ny]

ALLY GOIN OFF

 

[SeroTyler]

I've been annoying my friends and family with wanting Pichu back for a decade plus now, so to have it back and also be at the top of the meta...
:chefkiss:

Does it seem weird to anyone else that there's a large number of songs that just have no credit to them?

Click to shrink...

There's so much weird stuff with music that I feel having that many tracks must have been a last minute decision. Songs with no credit, songs with no capitalization, some just have the wrong name...

People always fail to see it, but in any and every fighting game during the first couple months you're always going to see a meta revolving around big guys (not to be confused with The Big Guy).

Click to shrink...

Yep, it's always FEEDING TIME in the first few months of play.

 

[Professor Beef]

Yep, it's always FEEDING TIME in the first few months of play.

Click to shrink...

I do love watching the meta develop, it's very surreal. FEED ME MORE meta development.

 

[Apopheniac]

The only Brawl-original song with actual credits is the Main theme. Brawl, Smash 4, Ultimate, doesn't matter none of them say anything other than the copyright to Nintendo.

Click to shrink...

Brawl's credits attribute the original songs under Takahiro Nishi, Shogo Sakai, Masaaki Iwasaki, Yutaka Iraha, Keigo Ozaki, and Kentaro Ishizaka

 

[r_n]

There's so much weird stuff with music that I feel having that many tracks must have been a last minute decision. Songs with no credit, songs with no capitalization, some just have the wrong name...

Click to shrink...

The no credit thing isn't just an Ultimate problem, to be clear. Smash 4 doesn't attribute any of its Melee or Brawl original songs either, or its retro medlies, for example

But yeah I could see the decision to bring back almost every song being decided later in development. Could explain a few odds and ends, though even if it was early in development Capitalization and misspelling issues feel like it'd crop up just because of how many songs there are.

At the very least I could see this bundle of songs absolutely being last minute
Opening – Melee
How to Play – 64
Menu – 64
Trophies
Tournament
Tournament 2
All-Star Intro
Adventure Map
Step: The Plain
Step: Subspace
Home-Run Contest
Trophy Gallery
Sticker Album/Album/Chronicle
Tournament Registration
Tournament Grid
Tournament Match End
All-Star Rest Area – Brawl
Classic: Results Screen
Classic: Final Results
Classic: Fail
Gallery/Hoard
Replay/Album/Records
All-Star Rest Area – Smash 4
StreetSmash

It's been talked about before, months ago, but these songs exist only in the sound test. It's not even like the Fighter Select A/B themes where they at least show up in World of Light, I am pretty sure none of these are played anywhere.

Melee's Opening, 64's Menu & How to Play, and all the gallery themes all seem perfect for Menu selections. The 2 Steps (& probably Street Smash) are clearly suited for Stages. You might be able to handwave (as I tried to coughcough) bringing back Smash 4's Classic themes, the old Tournament themes and all the All Star Intro themes as just referencing the series' history but at that point why not just bring back every theme, you know?

Brawl's credits attribute the original songs under Takahiro Nishi, Shogo Sakai, Masaaki Iwasaki, Yutaka Iraha, Keigo Ozaki, and Kentaro Ishizaka

Click to shrink...

it's a shame they don't just attribute the specific people outside of that

 

[MegaRockEXE]

I finally made it into Elite Smash! Now I can take a break from online for a while since I can confirm reaching it is actually attainable. It was very stressful. Always one step forward, two steps back.

 

[Metal B]

The Belmonths are really hard to play. I try to get Simon into Elite and i lost 20 or matches in a row (droped from 3.900.000 to around 1.000.000), until i got better at playing him (back at 3.500.000+). Still, i don't feel really gasping them. You think, many Simon players are lame for spamming all those specials, but you really freaking have to use them that way. You have to play them like a insecure teenager: Don't let anybody near you.

Also the holy water has the weirdest throwing arcs in the game, which is still extreme useful,. I had a Cloud player spam his Blade Beam under the platform of Battlefield and i had no idea, how to reach him with Simon. The Axt was too slow, the cross would get reflected and the beams were too fast, so that you couldn't destroy them with Simon's whip without getting hit. Then i discovered, if you stand on the other platform of the other side of the stage and throw the holy water in the direction of your opponent, the bottle would glide almost linear to the edge of the other side. The bottle ignores particles and sets your opponent on fire. The holy water is holy, because god allows it to ignore the laws of gravity!

I finally made it into Elite Smash! Now I can take a break from online for a while since I can confirm reaching it is actually attainable. It was very stressful. Always one step forward, two steps back.

Click to shrink...

Or you just luck out and face off against somebody, who has a high GSP, losses to you every time and doesn't give up. That's how i got DK into Elite .. but it felt like cheating.

 

[AverageFisk]

Quick question:

I've never played Smash before (before the Switch my last Nintendo system was NES) and I'm unlikely to subscribe to Switch Online.

Is this game fun as a single player experience? I'm going on a trip for a few days and I'm trying to decide which Switch game I want to play on it.

I was thinking about Pokemon Let's Go but it's supposed to be way too easy and simple but I thought it could be fun to unlock all the characters and finally try out Smash.

 

[ned_ballad]

Piranha Plant's air attacks are character breaking garbage and it lacks anything to do a meaningful combo

Everything about Piranha Plant is laggy, but it doesn't get the benefits other laggy characters, like Ganondorf, get.

 

[MegaRockEXE]

Or you just luck out and face off against somebody, who has a high GSP, losses to you every time and doesn't give up. That's how i got DK into Elite .. but it felt like cheating.

Click to shrink...

I rarely ever played anyone a second time because if I win too easily, they'd get close the second time or even win because they caught on to me. Besides, the gains were always less the second time. There was no farming. Just win more than you lose.

Quick question:

I've never played Smash before (before the Switch my last Nintendo system was NES) and I'm unlikely to subscribe to Switch Online.

Is this game fun as a single player experience? I'm going on a trip for a few days and I'm trying to decide which Switch game I want to play on it.

I was thinking about Pokemon Let's Go but it's supposed to be way too easy and simple but I thought it could be fun to unlock all the characters and finally try out Smash.

Click to shrink...

I'd say it is a fun single player. There's so much to do and the game does so much with all its content. I watched someone almost as new with the series try it out and they had the same struggles most new players had when the game released and that is learning how to play and improve. Watch the tutorials, read about the moves in the move list, and try some training and Classic mode. I spent a lot of time with Spirit Board because there's always something to get or worth trying out.

 

[Luminish]

Piranha Plant's air attacks are character breaking garbage and it lacks anything to do a meaningful combo

Everything about Piranha Plant is laggy, but it doesn't get the benefits other laggy characters, like Ganondorf, get.

Click to shrink...

It's a plant. Plants don't belong in the air.

Then again, I don't know what it's character suitable strong point should be. It's only real strong point in the game is it's one of the few which can't be jumped on in most iterations.

 

[r_n]

PP seems like a character where instead of opting for a specific playstyle niche, like someone good on the ground or air or favors distancing or whatever, they just put together a moveset like "this is what a plant would use i guess?"

I dunno that's what it seems compared with:
-Inkling is a fast hitter whose entire moveset lives & dies by the ink mechanic
-Ridley, whose style is all about heavy, vicious hits with weird timings. Weak point on his fireballs, compass directions up special, comand grab that sends both of you across the stage, explosive instant smash attacks. You look at him, you can kind of feel what the ywere going for
-Simon/Richter are all about projectiles and zoning. You can count the moves on one hand that attack in their immediate surroundings and not 10 yards away
-K Rool is "what if heavy weight....but fast??"
-Incineroar: a super heavy weight powerhouse with an elaborate wrestling gimmick to accomodate said power and weight
-Isabelle's derivitive of Villager, but she's generally more straight forward, fast and her big new traps (the mine & fishing rod) play into her speed and air game.

But Piranha Plant feels like it got moves because its a Piranha Plant without establishing a real game plan. You play it and yo uagree, this is perfect for a Plant, but you cant see a gameplan to it.

 

[FSLink]

PP seems like a character where instead of opting for a specific playstyle niche, like someone good on the ground or air or favors distancing or whatever, they just put together a moveset like "this is what a plant would use i guess?"

I dunno that's what it seems compared with:
-Inkling is a fast hitter whose entire moveset lives & dies by the ink mechanic
-Ridley, whose style is all about heavy, vicious hits with weird timings. Weak point on his fireballs, compass directions up special, comand grab that sends both of you across the stage, explosive instant smash attacks. You look at him, you can kind of feel what the ywere going for
-Simon/Richter are all about projectiles and zoning. You can count the moves on one hand that attack in their immediate surroundings and not 10 yards away
-K Rool is "what if heavy weight....but fast??"
-Incineroar: a super heavy weight powerhouse with an elaborate wrestling gimmick to accomodate said power and weight
-Isabelle's derivitive of Villager, but she's generally more straight forward, fast and her big new traps (the mine & fishing rod) play into her speed and air game.

But Piranha Plant feels like it got moves because its a Piranha Plant without establishing a real game plan. You play it and yo uagree, this is perfect for a Plant, but you cant see a gameplan to it.

Click to shrink...

I think adjusting Pirahna Plant's sideB would be a good start.

It feels like it should be a setup move. Where people try to avoid it due to its large amounts of damage, and then you could condition people into making mistakes and getting hit by his aerials or downB.

But in practice, the move just sucks. The opponent is almost always better off just pressing buttons or jumping while in it.

 

[Metal B]

It's a plant. Plants don't belong in the air.

Then again, I don't know what it's character suitable strong point should be. It's only real strong point in the game is it's one of the few which can't be jumped on in most iterations.

Click to shrink...

I agree, that it is properly by design, that Plant has a lot of laggy moves in the in air. He should stay close to the ground, that is why he has two special moves (Down-B and Neutral-B), which help him hit people in the air without leaving the ground much.
In opposite to Little Mac, who never wants to be off the ground, Plant best position is close to the ground (maximal the height of one single jump). Plant properly needs a lot of rework of his hitboxes (especially the Z-axis screws him), all his aerials should have almost no landing lag (if he hits the ground, he should be right at home), more range on the grounded moves and all his specials need some reworks: Speed up his Neutral-B, Side-B should either be bigger or slow down opponents, Down-B needs more invincible frames (there is some weird stuff happening, when his head and neck is exposed) and Up-B needs a finisher at the end of the move.

 

[ned_ballad]

Castelvania spirits this weekend



btw if you want up to the minute knowledge of when 3.0.0 is announced, that's the Twitter account to follow

 

[ned_ballad]

Oh yea so about 3.0.0...

Guess we didn't get a warning to save replays lol

 

[r_n]

Since it went by quickly, here's the new spirits coming with Joker:

• Morgana. Grab. Ace
• Ryuji Sakamoto. Shield. Novice
• Ann Takamaki. Attack. Novice
• Yusuke Kitagawa. Grab. Novice
• Makoto Nijima. Support. Novice. Spirit battle is red aligned
• Futaba Sakura. Support. Novice. Spirit battle is blue aligned.
• Haru Okumura. Attack. Novice
• Goro Akechi. Support. Advanced. Spirit battle is neutral.
• Caroline & Justine. Support. Ace. Spirit battle is blue aligned.
• Igor. Support. Ace. Spirit battle is neutral.
• Phantom Thieves. Support. Legend. Spirit battle is green aligned.

Oh yea so about 3.0.0...

Guess we didn't get a warning to save replays lol

Click to shrink...

Sure we did



A day in advance

 

[ned_ballad]

Dat 24 hour notice


Not even an in game announcement lol

 

[Lord Vatek]

I'd just like to take this moment to say that my old Dark Samus theory ended up being correct.

 

[Durden]

So I have been playing this game a shit ton against the past week. Finally beat WoL. It was fun. Then played a lot of games online, mainly using Meta Knight. The things that are bugging me the most about the game vs. wise currently...

1. Tether grabs. God they seem so good and hard to punish in this game. Incineroar kinda falls in with this too cause of his lunge grab. Ugh.

2. I'm still just...bad with combos and don't feel like I can pull them off consistently. I've been using Meta Knight a lot because I felt he would make me better in this area, but I'm having such a hard time getting more than 1 maybe 2 up airs in on string. Any tips?

3. Ivysaur. I fucking hate Ivysaur. He just feels like such a dumbly good character every time I fight against him. Range, tether, kill moves everywhere, hard to edgeguard, ect.

I've always had a harder time wrapping my head around Smash once I get to a certain level. Much harder for me than more standard fighters. So any assistance would be cool.

 

[Birdie]

Time to jump back in...still haven't got P.P.

 

[chirt]

Hows the latency/matchmaking these days? Haven't played since before Xmas last year, but the lag fests and that poor excuse for "ranked" left me with little motivation to put in the time.

 

[Rellyrell28]

Maybe one of these days I'll play Persona 5
Oh it's only 20$ on psn.

 

[Deleted member 401]

Oh yea so about 3.0.0...

Guess we didn't get a warning to save replays lol

Click to shrink...

You'll never see it comiiiiiiiiiiiiiing

 

[Weiss]

We expecting patch notes? Do they do that now for this game?

Maybe one of these days I'll play Persona 5
Oh it's only 20$ on psn.

Click to shrink...

Hold off on buying it until the 25th when we know what Persona 5 Royal is going to be.

 

[r_n]

We expecting patch notes? Do they do that now for this game?



Hold off on buying it until the 25th when we know what Persona 5 Royal is going to be.

Click to shrink...

They did it with 2.0 https://en-americas-support.nintend...imate-update-ver.-2.0.0---fighter-adjustments

 

[Apopheniac]

We expecting patch notes? Do they do that now for this game?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, not sure when they're gonna go up though