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Deleted member 5322

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Oct 25, 2017
1,523
And with Steam BS, you mean Linux and Mac Support, universal controller support, big picture mode, competing 3rd party keystores, in-home streaming, Steam Workshop, trading cards etc? Damn, what a relief!
No I mean terrible toxic forums, constantly shifting economic and content policies, over-saturation which means that it's possible your game won't do numbers because the store is flooded with fifty Unity asset store flips dropping a week, etc. Reminder that this store has not even been out for 24 hours, it will get all those things sooner than later. Also: trading cards???? Really???
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
No I mean terrible toxic forums, constantly shifting economic and content policies, over-saturation which means that it's possible your game won't do numbers because the store is flooded with fifty Unity asset store flips dropping a week, etc. Reminder that this store has not even been out for 24 hours, it will get all those things sooner than later. Also: trading cards???? Really???

Nice shitposting m8.

I mean, you are aware that people having issues with games from Epic's store are using the Steam forums to ask for help? isn't that ironic huh?

Also, it has been proven many times that the huge amount of GOOD games is the major factor of the discovery issues on Steam, not the shovelware that everyone ignores. The many good games on Steam won't disappear if you take your game away on Steam.

Oh and did you know you can actually sell trading cards to get some of your money back? Such BS, I know...
 

Deleted member 5322

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,523
Nice shitposting m8.

I mean, you are aware that people having issues with games from Epic's store are using the Steam forums to ask for help? isn't that ironic huh?

Also, it has been proven many times that the huge amount of GOOD games is the major factor of the discovery issues on Steam, not the shovelware that everyone ignores. The many good games on Steam won't disappear if you take your game away on Steam.

Oh and did you know you can actually sell trading cards to get some of your money back? Such BS, I know...
It has been proven time and time again that indies releasing good games on Steam have been suffering the last few years as a small handful of games keep getting pushed to the top based on Steam's suggestion algorithms. Again: the store is like brand new. They will figure stuff out. Reminder also that Hades is in Early Access.

If you really think the trading card stuff is all that meaningful...I don't know what to tell ya, you've bought in to the monopoly's cutesy gimmicks.
 

Cokie Bear

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,944
Some of you take this stuff really seriously. I'm of the opinion that if a game is good I'll play it. I don't particularly care where I buy it from.
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
You do know you can make money and buy games with trading cards, right?
Usually with those you can make like, 6 cents per card. and i tend to only get like five cards per game. Being able to get like 30 cents back ain't exactly the most convincing reason to buy a game on Steam instead.

At least for me all this means is just having to use a different game launcher than the one I usually have to use. And it's one I already have installed anyway. So personally I don't have much of a problem with it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
Keep in mind that you are literally saying (well, implying) that being fine with the developer settling for "merely" the standard 70% cut out of every sale is equivalent to starving them to death.
A bit hyperbolic, honestly.

Especially since 88% of X sales isn't in any way better than 70% of X sales multiplied for N times.
Don't falsely equivocate.

I didn't say it was equivalent to starving them. I said, "helps kill off", as in, the callous opinion you have expressed is a factor that if widespread, can certainly contribute to making developers go out of business. I think that's a reasonable conclusion.

In contrast, if you passionately supported a particular developer and wanted to help them succeed, one option could be to buy their game from a launcher that gives them more money. This is why some people buy new so that the developer gets the money. This is why I sometimes buy at full price, if it's a developer I really think deserves it.

Consider that if you do so, and the Epic store takes off, that could encourage Valve to actually give developers a higher cut. Epic had a very developer-positive move a while back in which they retroactively gave a higher dev cut. Doing something like that retroactively is almost unheard of.

If competition ends up making developers in general end up treated better by both companies, your decision has helped more than just one company. In fact, it might even help people like me who have tons of Steam games since its inception, and who mostly game on Steam, because it might get Valve to actually improve such features. My friends list still has an interior search compared to before the most recent update, for example, which is sort of ludicrous.

Note that I have lots of Steam games, almost always buy on Steam, like several Valve games, advocate the Steam controller's use, and like Linux.

And yet, I still express such opinions. I even downloaded Origin of all things. Why? Because I passionately wanted to support the team behind one of my favorite games ever. Because there are people behind games. Because it's not a middle school console war where everyone has a team, and we trash anything different.
 

cyress8

Avenger
Usually with those you can make like, 6 cents per card. and i tend to only get like five cards per game. Being able to get like 30 cents back ain't exactly the most convincing reason to buy a game on Steam instead.

At least for me all this means is just having to use a different game launcher than the one I usually have to use. And it's one I already have installed anyway. So personally I don't have much of a problem with it.

No other launcher allows me to stream my games with a quick click of a button to my other tvs and use my other controllers I have around the house. Unless they can do the same, I have no reason to focus on another launcher. I spend about 90% of my gaming time sitting on my couch or lounge chair outside and not being able to stream is 100% a deal breaker.

If the devs can't support me as a customer to make gaming easier. They might as well be prepared to not receive my money.
 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
1,973
No other launcher allows me to stream my games with a quick click of a button to my other tvs and use my other controllers I have around the house. Unless they can do the same, I have no reason to focus on another launcher. I spend about 90% of my gaming time sitting on my couch or lounge chair outside and not being able to stream is 100% a deal breaker.

If the devs can't support me as a customer to make gaming easier. They might as well be prepared to not receive my money.
If you're talking about the Steam Link: in this case it wouldn't take much effort to add Hades as a non-Steam game to your Steam library and just launch it through that.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
It sucks Supergiant has to do an early access game because Pyre didn't do well. Must've been too awesome for the general public. On the plus side I get to play their next game early.

Guess I'll have to download Epic Games.

Edit: AND STOP WHINING ABOUT THIS BEING ON EPIC GAMES, PEOPLE. It's really not a big deal and allows you to support these amazing developers. Christ, gamers are such entitled babies.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
So does anybody have any new impression on the game?

Plus maybe it's best to keep the Epic store issues in a topic specifically for that. I don't see this being too different from port begging.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
Does it play like Bastion? Cause Bastion had an amazing action combat system that I'm sad they ditched for their other games.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
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Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
AND STOP WHINING ABOUT THIS BEING ON EPIC GAMES, PEOPLE. It's really not a big deal and allows you to support these amazing developers.

I strongly disagree. Introducing money hats for 3rd party games on pc IS a huge deal and should die as soon as possible. It actually kills competition and causes fragmentation, so I won't support any devs/games being part of this.
 

Cels

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,772
once it's out of early access it'll almost certainly be on steam...sucks if you want to play the game before it's done but money talks

plus the game is DRM free. you don't even need to use the epic games launcher more than once.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
I strongly disagree. Introducing money hats for 3rd party games on pc IS a huge deal and should die as soon as possible. It actually kills competition and causes fragmentation, so I won't support any devs/games being part of this.
A new games service being formed does the opposite of killing competition. It may fragment the marketplace, but it's really not all that fragmented on the PC to begin with (let's be honest like 80% of it is Steam and 20% is everything else). And a fragmented marketplace in this example costs people exactly nothing and only causes the slight inconvenience of having one extra program on their computer.

Edit: And also can apparently be played without even opening the launcher lol

But all of that is besides the point. If you like Supergiant and want to support what they do it really shouldn't matter what service something is on. Sure, they got paid money to put the game on Epic, but SO WHAT? That means they have more money so they can develop even more insanely awesomely amazing games. The horror.
 
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Deleted member 11413

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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Does it play like Bastion? Cause Bastion had an amazing action combat system that I'm sad they ditched for their other games.
It's most similar to Bastion. Imo it plays much better than Bastion does, at least from the small amount of time I've played it for. You only have one weapon at a time rather than two, but every weapon is more versatile than any weapon combination in Bastion.
 

Sulik2

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,168
It's most similar to Bastion. Imo it plays much better than Bastion does, at least from the small amount of time I've played it for. You only have one weapon at a time rather than two, but every weapon is more versatile than any weapon combination in Bastion.

Guess I'm buying a new game this weekend. Thanks!
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
How does this play on M/KB?

It's most similar to Bastion. Imo it plays much better than Bastion does, at least from the small amount of time I've played it for. You only have one weapon at a time rather than two, but every weapon is more versatile than any weapon combination in Bastion.
In what way? More combos? Perks changing your attacks?

On that note, how are the perks/upgrades? Do they stack and drastically change your attacks/abilities, or are they more general stat improvements and whatnot?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,686
From the FAQ:

https://www.supergiantgames.com/blog/hades-faq/

Just checked and yup, can be launched without being logged into the Epic Games Launcher
Thanks for this! I just bought the game largely because of hearing it was DRM-free, and I just confirmed that I can run it from Steam without the Epic launcher running at all.

hadesxiczw.png


I suspect this might even work with a Steam Link, but I don't have mine setup yet.
 

Deleted member 11413

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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
How does this play on M/KB?


In what way? More combos? Perks changing your attacks?

On that note, how are the perks/upgrades? Do they stack and drastically change your attacks/abilities, or are they more general stat improvements and whatnot?
Both of those. The perks range from base damage improvements to significantly changing how certain attacks function. For example, there are perks that can make any of your abilities deflect projectiles, perks that add a debuff to your attacks, perks that completely change your cast, perks that add knockback effects, that make the arrows from the bow instant, etc. I haven't seen all the perks yet
 

Pariah

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,944
Somehow I missed this. Supergiant is by a mile my favorite indie studio. This looks like a familiar cross between Transistor's aesthetics, Bastion's gameplay, and Pyre's narrative. It might not be surprising after their previous works, but I'm certain of its high production level.

I hope this release works for them, and through time they find the way to release it on more platforms, as it's been the case for Bastion and Transistor.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
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Oct 28, 2017
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A new games service being formed does the opposite of killing competition.

Again, this is NOT true if that game service results in games being pulled from every other store that tries to compete with that new games service. Paying money to keep games away from other services is anti-competitive behavior imo.

While I like supergiants previous games a lot, I'm very disappointed that they agreed to Epic's moneyhat. I strongly dislike this decision so I won't support it. I have plenty of other great games on my wistlist.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
Again, this is NOT true if that game service results in games being pulled from every other store that tries to compete with that new games service. Paying money to keep games away from other services is anti-competitive behavior imo.

While I like supergiants previous games a lot, I'm very disappointed that they agreed to Epic's moneyhat. I strongly dislike this decision so I won't support it. I have plenty of other great games on my wistlist.
You're mixing up competition with fragmentation. Companies paying for exclusive content is quite common in every entertainment industry and is a sign of healthy competition. And fragmentation is significantly less big of a deal on PC than consoles, because unlike exclusives on consoles this costs you literally nothing and anyone can still play the game (even without the EPIC launcher).

And well, you're free to support what you want, but I think it's silly. Good on Supergiant for taking advantage of ways to make money while still taking risks, and I think more independent companies should do it. God knows there's not enough money to go around and a lot of smaller companies suffer for it.

Anyhow Supergiant's model seems to be making as many ports as possible, so unless EPIC gave them the deal of a lifetime, I'm sure it'll come out in other places upon release.
 
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Deleted member 11413

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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
You're mixing up competition with fragmentation. Companies paying for exclusive content is quite common in every entertainment industry and is a sign of healthy competition. And it's significantly less big of a deal on PC than consoles, because unlike exclusives on consoles this costs you literally nothing and anyone can still play the game (even without the EPIC launcher).

And well, you're free to support what you want, but I think it's silly. Good on Supergiant for taking advantage of ways to make money while still taking risks, and I think more companies should do it. God knows there's not enough money to go around so a lot of smaller companies suffer for it.


Anyhow Supergiant's model seems to be making as many ports as possible, so unless EPIC gave them the deal of a lifetime, I'm sure it'll come out in other places upon release.
I really don't understand complaining about this release specifically when it's DRM free. That means you can do whatever you want with it, put it in your Steam library, put the files on a flash drive and bring it to a friends house to play on their PC, whatever.
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
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Oct 28, 2017
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Belgium
You're mixing up competition with fragmentation. Companies paying for exclusive content is quite common in every entertainment industry and is a sign of healthy competition. And fragmentation is significantly less big of a deal on PC than consoles, because unlike exclusives on consoles this costs you literally nothing and anyone can still play the game (even without the EPIC launcher).

And well, you're free to support what you want, but I think it's silly. Good on Supergiant for taking advantage of ways to make money while still taking risks, and I think more companies should do it. God knows there's not enough money to go around and a lot of smaller companies suffer for it.

Anyhow Supergiant's model seems to be making as many ports as possible, so unless EPIC gave them the deal of a lifetime, I'm sure it'll come out in other places upon release.

I strongly disagree with your first sentence. Moneyhatting is not a sign of healthy competition in the games industry, on the contrary: Epic is using it to force people into using a store, that lacks many great features that their competitors have. They haven't even tried to make it an attractive alternative for Steam or GoG yet.

Don't get me wrong: I don't mind other stores or launchers. I have plenty of them installed and own games on all of them. But I will not support any actions that are meant to give gamers LESS options where they can buy and play games.

I also think supergiant took a huge risk alienating their fans on Steam and GoG. Every indie dev should try to bring their games to as many potential customers as possible. They have decided to do the opposite, so I won't feel sorry for them if this doesn't work out.
 

Slixshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
701
Can we please discuss the game more? I would love to read more impressions rather than people's takes on the Epic Game Store.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
Put some more time in today. My earlier impressions still stand, but I was able to get past the first area of the game -- which included a true boss fight. The further you play, the more the game peels back additional features and complexities to make the "grind" feel more rewarding. In the last hour I've gotten access to a codex which fills up with new entries as you pick up new items, talk to characters, and do various things in the world. I've also purchased an item that spiffs up your room back home, making return visits to level your character more fun as you poke around and see what's available or new. Finally, I discovered "gifts" -- rare items that when given to certain characters reward you with a meaningful upgrade.

It doesn't take long in this game before you get enough upgrades that the cost becomes prohibitive unless you're making headway. Unfortunately it does seem like the game is built in a way where there are no shortcuts: I beat a boss, got a little further than I ever had, and -- of course -- got killed and sent back to home base. I was hoping that one or more of the closed doors would open there providing me with a shortcut to get back to the area I was at, but with the way the temporary upgrades work in this game that might be more trouble than it's worth.

This is a game that you're meant to replay, over and over, and that's a different feeling than I'm used to with the more story-centered affairs of previous SG games. On a positive note: I think it works. It's fun to see how little build changes make your character stronger, and what little story there is -- and as simple as it is -- it's pretty fun and never hold you back from getting into the action.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Put some more time in today. My earlier impressions still stand, but I was able to get past the first area of the game -- which included a true boss fight. The further you play, the more the game peels back additional features and complexities to make the "grind" feel more rewarding. In the last hour I've gotten access to a codex which fills up with new entries as you pick up new items, talk to characters, and do various things in the world. I've also purchased an item that spiffs up your room back home, making return visits to level your character more fun as you poke around and see what's available or new. Finally, I discovered "gifts" -- rare items that when given to certain characters reward you with a meaningful upgrade.

It doesn't take long in this game before you get enough upgrades that the cost becomes prohibitive unless you're making headway. Unfortunately it does seem like the game is built in a way where there are no shortcuts: I beat a boss, got a little further than I ever had, and -- of course -- got killed and sent back to home base. I was hoping that one or more of the closed doors would open there providing me with a shortcut to get back to the area I was at, but with the way the temporary upgrades work in this game that might be more trouble than it's worth.

This is a game that you're meant to replay, over and over, and that's a different feeling than I'm used to with the more story-centered affairs of previous SG games. On a positive note: I think it works. It's fun to see how little build changes make your character stronger, and what little story there is -- and as simple as it is -- it's pretty fun and never hold you back from getting into the action.
If you want more story try resting in the bed in Zagreus's bedroom.

I think the narrative context for the repetition is really genius. I feel like they really put some thought into how to make a narrative based around the mechanics of a roguelike so that it feels cohesive