I agree with your post. I love Supergiant games, with Transistor being my favorite. The problem I see so far with this game is you kind of hit a brick wall with upgrades...Skill can overcome this, but unlike other great rogue like games like this you don't feel like you are progressing past a point and the joy of playing just sort of stops. Even Dead Cells had a point where you feel amazing, and the combination of skill and progression is perfectly matched. With this one it is 80 percent skill and 20 percent progression, which I guess plays to a more hardcore crowd, something none of the older Supergiant games ever really did. I hope they balance this so that extreme players can get their challenge and casual players can also feel amazing.
I am glad I bought it, but after maybe 8 hours or so I am not "feeling" it...and have to give it a thumbs down.
It is early access though...so maybe they will balance it.
I've gotten to the boss of the second area like 5 times now and died on every run -- the bad news? It's been (mostly) because of RNG. Like, I never seem to be able to get to him with the right build, and in the final phase I can't put down the damage I need to on his buddies to finish him off. It's really demoralizing, and stands in stark contrast to the sense of achievement I felt from getting used to enemy encounters, and letting some of the persistent abilities accentuate my play-style.
Right now, I'm guessing they just balanced this final boss to be a complete fucking dumpster fire of a boss, because there's not any accessible content after him. But fuck if it doesn't kind of put a damper on my initial impression of the game: relying on RNG is never fun, and right now I know I am "one good run" away from completing it, but I never seem to get it.
Finished the available content in the early access version of the game (so far), by completing the boss in the second area. Felt good to finally put a nail in that coffin, since all of my attempts had failed previously for seemingly unending amounts of small, stupid reasons. Not enough HP, or perhaps I didn't get enough attack damage bonuses -- whatever the case may be, even on my successful attempt I did feel a slight sting that came with the satisfaction of the victory that my win was a function of time rather than skill. Or perhaps, it was more that what this early version of the game prioritizes is "the god run" -- a run where items are selected strategically, but you see more epic and rare mods than common. I like to feel like I have a little more control in my wins and losses, but right now, the game isn't built that way, in my opinion.
The game slyly recognizes that you've rubbed up against the final piece of content and rewards you with a bit of content that I suspect *won't* be in the final game (it
unceremoniously kills you and an accompanying voice-over hilariously says "Lets pretend you didn't get much further" before sending the player back to the start
). It's a nice way of softening the blow of an underwhelming boss fight, through and through. There are two bosses in this version of the game, and one of them is a more-or-less expertly crafted fight, while the latter just kind of sucks: it suffers from being an "everything and the kitchen sink" fight, where I felt more like I was playing a bullet hell game and spamming all my available abilities rather than thinking and strategically planning my movement and attacks. It doesn't help that things can get so out of control on screen that you'll sometimes find yourself losing the position of your character, your mouse cursor, or simply be unable in the moment to size-up the enemies and where the weak points of the mobs are (or will be). There's a particularly dumb attack used frequently in the later areas that obscures your vision. This is... not helpful when these other problems exist.
More than anything, Hades seems like it's going to be a fantastic game if and when they iron out a steep difficulty curve, introduce new areas and encounters, and especially produce a more meaningful and meaty story to go along with everything. As is, the game runs on the fumes of inertia and promise. There are cool unlocks and weapons ... for a little while. There's a nice, interesting story beat at some point that promises a beating heart underneath the action -- with more hopefully in a new released version. There's some cool weapons, until you pick the one that works and forget the others because they just aren't as good. It's a staggeringly promising game. It also doesn't *quite* work yet, in this current form. It all feels a little more than a ridiculously polished demo, rather than an early access title. There's surprisingly little dust where the work is, but when I jump into an EA title, I'm used to -- and kind of want to see -- that dust, so I can get a better idea of how the game will "fit" together.
I suspect there will be more to chew on here in the coming months, and I'll definitely be checking it out as it comes.
There's a fair number of enemies in the game right now across the two areas, with a few being color swaps, but there's just a few weapons. There's a
sword, spear, bow and shield
that are available. I am sure they plan to have plenty more of both, and time their introductions with the "big" content releases. They have a counter in the game saying when the next big content drop is, which is a pretty nice feature, and when the number is 0 I'll probably be jumping right back in to check it out.
Whether or not the practice is "garbage" isn't something I'll pass judgement on...
But one of the things I love about Supergiant's games is their polish and narrative. Both of those things suffer in early access. So while I'm excited to play another Supergiant game, I'll wait until an actual release.
Bought this last night and loved it over about two or three hours. I've unlocked weapons available right now and got to the second area once which basically became me playing Geometry Wars. As other have said, I feel like to get through this but you need to get just the right drops and have plenty of stats upgraded.
That last boss seems a bit too much. It was hard just to know what was happening. I lost Zagreus at least a couple of times (before dying badly, that is).
That last boss seems a bit too much. It was hard just to know what was happening. I lost Zagreus at least a couple of times (before dying badly, that is).
Yeah, I got to it for the first time yesterday and once it moved to the second stage I felt like there wasn't enough room and they were ramping it up for the sake of it. It also felt especially hard for the second boss.
Yeah, I got to it for the first time yesterday and once it moved to the second stage I felt like there wasn't enough room and they were ramping it up for the sake of it. It also felt especially hard for the second boss.
Yeah I also finally beat Hydra...with basically a HUGE health pool build. I still did not have a great damage build going though....but it worked.
They seriously need to balance this so that other builds work. NOT nerf good builds, but buff other gods so that you can feel progress even if you don't get "lucky"
Yeah I got the second boss just now with the spear and I got it down to about half health; I had the spear and basically get buffing my attack along with the perk that gives you health back when you strike after taking damage. It stills feels unbalanced as hell for where it is in the game. The ramp up is insane.
Can someone tell me how does the Early Access work, can I clear the game now or is it unfinished?
And if I play the game now, keep my save then come back to it later can I continue where I left off?
Yeah I got the second boss just now with the spear and I got it down to about half health; I had the spear and basically get buffing my attack along with the perk that gives you health back when you strike after taking damage. It stills feels unbalanced as hell for where it is in the game. The ramp up is insane.
Yeah, the only time I succeeded I was dealing a lot of damage quite quickly. On Discord I read that standing near the head is a good way to avoid it's shots, but I haven't tested it yet.
Can someone tell me how does the Early Access work, can I clear the game now or is it unfinished?
And if I play the game now, keep my save then come back to it later can I continue where I left off?
There are two main areas now, with a good amount of upgrades (both permanent and for each run), 4 different weapons, quite a few enemies and two bosses.
We don't know if there will be wipes, if that's what you meant; if you mean each run, you can safely close the game and you'll start back at the beginning of the last room.
Yeah, the only time I succeeded I was dealing a lot of damage quite quickly. On Discord I read that standing near the head is a good way to avoid it's shots, but I haven't tested it yet.
That would make sense; standing back kinda pens you in. I'm wondering if the way to go on that boss is just to lay into it and have a massive health buffer.
FYI for anyone reading that doesn't have the game: they've said in their last patch before Christmas that the first major content update is coming in January.
I wonder how many people complaining about it being Early Access bought Pyre. Cause Pyre is the worst selling Supergiant games... despite being the most interesting and having the most innovative gameplay of all 2017 games.
Anyway, I really enjoy Hades. I don't care that it's early access - I probably won't even "finish" this version before the 1.0 will come out, lol. I'm bad. But combat feels great. Still not as dynamic as Dead Cells though. I love the Shield weapon.
And despite being a rougelike, it still has a lot of character. The NPCs you meet and talk to - you really feel a "supergiantness" here because of this aspect.
I'm having a blast with the game so far. My only complaint about the gameplay currently is that the second area clearly relies on overwhelming numbers of shielded enemies to create a challenge rather than new, interesting designs. It's literally impossible to see what's going on a lot of the time. I trust that this will be a major point of revision as the game develops.
It already feels fantastic to play, which is enough to keep me coming back for now. I'm looking forward to seeing the scope of the first major update.
New update out today. I did a couple of runs and here's what I noticed:
- The update is billed as the "Chaos" update, and sure enough there's a new deity called Primordial Chaos that you can receive boons from. You can find Chaos boons inside blood doors, which gives them a reason for existing. Unlike other Gods and Goddesses you can receive boons from, Chaos doesn't provide a specific type of power-up that you can apply to your attack, special, dash, or cast. Chaos boons give you a challenge to complete, followed by a reward if you survive - one option might be taking damage every time you dash for two rooms but receiving a permanent health increase afterwards.
So far none of the Chaos boons I've come across have been particularly thrilling, but I can see how that might change as I become more familiar with the options or as balance patches tune the buffs. It's cool to have another option for specializing your build.
- There's a new trinket you can get from Chaos by offering an Ambrosia. I haven't gotten it yet, but one assumes it's the same as the trinkets you can get from the other deities.
- There are a couple of new enemy types in the second zone after you beat Meg. Flying Medusa heads that fire a projectile that turns you to stone, and huge living statues that can dragoon jump into the air and come down on you if you don't get out of the way quickly enough. I definitely found that these enemies added another layer of depth and challenge to the second zone. They seem like good additions.
- There's a new system called the Pact of Punishment that apparently increases the difficulty after you beat the Hydra, but I haven't unlocked it yet. You can find a new reward for clearing chambers that looks like a red crystal skull, and it seems like you need 10 of them to unlock the new system in Zag's room.
- Various balance patches. Everything's feeling good so far.
Just played a couple of runs. They definitely made the Hydra a lot less annoying.
Meg goes down a bit easier too, though that was less of a problem.
I do find it a little weird that the Pact seems to have no upside at all. Considering how you actually have to work to unlock them I would think there would be like a % boost in shadow earned or something. I guess it's for if you're really hardcore and just want more challenge...
I really like how the trinkets rank up now, even if it means they're weaker overall.
It's kind of a shame they nerfed crits, though. Combined with the changes to armour, I will miss dashing around with the bow getting guaranteed crits and atomizing even some weaker armoured enemies in a single hit. I guess it was a bit strong...
Just played a couple of runs. They definitely made the Hydra a lot less annoying.
Meg goes down a bit easier too, though that was less of a problem.
I do find it a little weird that the Pact seems to have no upside at all. Considering how you actually have to work to unlock them I would think there would be like a % boost in shadow earned or something. I guess it's for if you're really hardcore and just want more challenge...
I really like how the trinkets rank up now, even if it means they're weaker overall.
It's kind of a shame they nerfed crits, though. Combined with the changes to armour, I will miss dashing around with the bow getting guaranteed crits and atomizing even some weaker armoured enemies in a single hit. I guess it was a bit strong...
Personally, I didn't notice much of a difference with Meg; the Hydra seems a bit better, though I noticed they gave armor to the heads (maybe they have less hp overall).
I agree that having to get items as rewards to make the game more difficult is a bit weird.
I believe they nerfed crits a bit too much honestly. The enemies have always felt a bit too tanky, especially in Asphodel, but not that you can't even crit reliably it's a lot worse. Like, 15% after dashing as a rare boon seems way way too low.
Artemis looks great, as does Chaos. Really great designs all around.
It's nice how they have made a few small patches in the past few days, I was expecting there to only be changes every big patch.
Overall, they've made the game much easier. I've done 6 runs since the new patch and I've finished all but the first one.
I guess the difficulty seems good if you look at if as the first 2 zones of a larger game.
In the patch notes it mentions that the well of Charon sells a new item if you've bought all the decor items, but I'm pretty sure I have all of them and I haven't seen any changes. Has anyone else seen it? also has anyone seen the new unlockables from finishing a run with a certain amount of heat?
It's nice how they have made a few small patches in the past few days, I was expecting there to only be changes every big patch.
Overall, they've made the game much easier. I've done 6 runs since the new patch and I've finished all but the first one.
I guess the difficulty seems good if you look at if as the first 2 zones of a larger game.
In the patch notes it mentions that the well of Charon sells a new item if you've bought all the decor items, but I'm pretty sure I have all of them and I haven't seen any changes. Has anyone else seen it? also has anyone seen the new unlockables from finishing a run with a certain amount of heat?
I think the difficulty is fine as it is now, especially if you consider that we have a lot of the Darkness-related upgrades already. I have yet to get the 500 Gold one, so I can't look for a new one. I haven't seen the Pact unlockables, but I'd imagine that someone on the Discord has probably showed something about it.
EDIT: Here they are, if you want to know.
So I'm not sure if it's actually the new update or a coincidence but there's two major changes with this patch I am into: I love how often the pomegranates are appearing, and I love how the pot enemies throw bombs instead of drop them.
For the former, they really encourage me to nail down a specific playstyle, taking God-given abilities and focusing on them for all of the fights. Going Bow Secondary this time, or Sword Dodge-Secondary. Just interesting options all over the place. For the latter, those enemies were just annoying and almost pointless (doubly so when they were elites) so this makes them more of a threat and more interesting.
Really good, really clever changes all around. Loving it.
So I'm not sure if it's actually the new update or a coincidence but there's two major changes with this patch I am into: I love how often the pomegranates are appearing, and I love how the pot enemies throw bombs instead of drop them.
For the former, they really encourage me to nail down a specific playstyle, taking God-given abilities and focusing on them for all of the fights. Going Bow Secondary this time, or Sword Dodge-Secondary. Just interesting options all over the place. For the latter, those enemies were just annoying and almost pointless (doubly so when they were elites) so this makes them more of a threat and more interesting.
Really good, really clever changes all around. Loving it.
The latter was definitely part of the new update; I'm not sure about the first one. The first run I did I got a ridiculous amount of different abilities, while in the second run (with the new weapon) I got a few and many opportunities to upgrade them.
I played a bit of this earlier to test out the updates and feel like they're pretty solid. I died at the Hydra again (it's still chaotic during the final phase - overly so IMO). The poison boon helped a lot and the new weapon is really fun; I think it's a better version of the bow basically.
I feel really stupid for taking like 5 runs to find out that you can shoot the gun like twice as fast if you mash...
Still haven't been able to win using the gun, though the Poseidon knockback got me pretty close.
So far I think the bow is still the best weapon (or maybe I just have the most practice with it) 'cause it's the only one I can pretty reliably win with.
I have plans to buy the game, but I need to ask before I expose myself to spoilers:
Does it have random Bosses each time you start the game or they are just fixed one for each different place?
Thank you.
I have plans to buy the game, but I need to ask before I expose myself to spoilers:
Does it have random Bosses each time you start the game or they are just fixed one for each different place?
Thank you.
I think it's definitely worth getting right now.
It's extremely polished and basically plays like a finished game already.
They also release new content every month or so.
