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Deleted member 16657

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,198
I really like them as developers, I've played all their games and enjoyed them.

I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in their their timing was really bad and shady but the bump in price for the increased content of the game is totally fair. Just a bad time to do it and they're rightfully getting backlash over it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,701
This seems all sorts of fucky from both epic for apparently not letting devs/pubs know the full extent of this sale and then from supergiant for their knee jerk reaction to permanently raise their game's price. Just fucky all around
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,651
QxQl1zi.gif


This sale is all over the place
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
it's illegal in a lot of places, yikes.

I dunno. If the orders placed with the cheaper discounted price weren't fulfilled, then it would definitely have been illegal. Raising the price due to an error though ? Doesn't seem to be, based on my light knowledge of EU consumers rights (maybe in US tho).

If the price were to drop after the sale though, that'd be another story.
 
Oct 27, 2017
798
Why the hell? A bad decision, to be sure.

It's a shame this will affect the games sales really awkwardly. Hades in its current form is my favourite of SuperGiant's game so far and it's only going to get better. Disappointing.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
I dunno. If the orders placed with the cheaper discounted price weren't fulfilled, then it would definitely have been illegal. Raising the price due to an error though ? Doesn't seem to be, based on my light knowledge of EU consumers rights (maybe in US tho).

Its not an error when they said they just feel the sale price is too cheap.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
On a similar note, I want to point out the hilarious thing I noticed on Amazon during Prime day when a set of utensils was being sold at like a massive discount of like 70&. And if you have apps like Honey or Camel you can see the pricing of the listing throughout the months. The seller had bumped up the price massively like a week before Prime Day from its base price, then on Prime Day brought it back down to its regular price prior to the bump and was pretending like nobody noticed.
 

Kiro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,919
Ottawa, Canada
Shady stuff - avoiding this game now which is a shame because I checked it out earlier today due to the sale and it looked up my alley. Not supporting this kind of sketchy practice.
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
I dont support this early access pricing shit that so many do. Same reason I never got ark even though I think I'd love it.
 

Uthred

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
With this, Paradox/Klei pulling their games, and Ubisoft games not being available to buy during this sale (despite the store pages advertising the discounts), this sale really does seem like it was ill thought out.

I've never seen any company throw around so much money, with such little plan, to generate such negative sentiment. Feels like Epic don't really understand the area they are operating in.

I agree its being handled in anything but a smooth way, but the negative sentiment you mention in the three instances you quoted doesnt seem to be directed at Epic this time around.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
This is actually not allowed on Steam:
Steamworks Documentation said:
Discounting Rules
  • It is not possible to discount your product for 30 days following a price increase.
    (...)
  • You may not change your price while a promotion is live.
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/discounts

Good thing the Epic store is instilling pro-consumer practices such as not worrying about silly things like letting partners increase their prices mid-promotion.
 

Soulflarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,803
I dunno. If the orders placed with the cheaper discounted price weren't fulfilled, then it would definitely have been illegal. Raising the price due to an error though ? Doesn't seem to be, based on my light knowledge of EU consumers rights (maybe in US tho).
They're raising the base price to $25 and then listing a discount price

It's similar to selling ps4s for $600 tomorrow and then advertising a half off sale- an unaware buyer might see 50% off, never have seen that before, and then buy it. It's completely illegal because it's deceptive marketing designed to trick people into thinking they're getting a better deal than they are.
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,048
Weird that so many people in here don't want to support the developer and give them as much money as possible.
 

LordRuyn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,909
Yeah, their Discord is blowing up ATM and with good reason. People are pissed, even if they already own the game
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,967
This seems all sorts of fucky from both epic for apparently not letting devs/pubs know the full extent of this sale and then from supergiant for their knee jerk reaction to permanently raise their game's price. Just fucky all around

Look at the tweets posted in here. They knew what was going on. They raised it themselves or gave the ok. It's not like it was below 15 and then Epic raised it slightly above 15 without them knowing.
 

BRSxIgnition

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
It's fair to increase the price as they add content.

What's not fair is saying they wouldn't do so without an announcement, then doing it without announcing anything in the middle of a sale.

I love your games Supergiant but this is a bad look.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
They're raising the base price to $25 and then listing a discount price

It's similar to selling ps4s for $600 tomorrow and then advertising a half off sale- an unaware buyer might see 50% off, never have seen that before, and then buy it. It's completely illegal because it's deceptive marketing designed to trick people into thinking they're getting a better deal than they are.

Again, if they were going to drop the price after the sale was over, then it'd be 100% illegal for obvious reasons. If the price rise is permanent and if it was only an error that it didn't show up at the beginning of the sale, then it doesn't seem to violate any EU consumer law I'm aware of. But I dunno for sure, it's not like a product permanently rising in price is a very common situation.
 

Rizific

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,948
Its not an error when they said they just feel the sale price is too cheap.
wasnt epic covering the $10 off though? so it wouldnt make a difference to them because they were still getting their asking price. this is a "lets take advantage of the sale to make more profit" move. thats fair enough, but instead of them getting $5 from me and $10 from epic, now they arent getting shit from my sale because im not buying anymore.
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,424
This is extremely shady. The fact they adjusted the pricing earlier in the day in other regions so that it would be eligible for the $10 epic discount and did not change the base price then shows this was a spur of the moment decision in reaction to the amount of buyers they were getting. And changing the price mid sale is very unethical and possibly illegal.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR

Viale

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,614
This is actually not allowed on Steam:

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/discounts

Good thing the Epic store is instilling pro-consumer practices such as not worrying about silly things like letting partners increase their prices mid-promotion.

Epic should have things in place against this, I agree. However, I can honestly believe the idea of a dev doing something so egregious didn't happen to cross Epic's mind at this point.

The fault for this falls squarely on super giant imo.
 

Adroc

Member
Mar 16, 2019
113
I never thought Supergiant Games would do something like this so it's pretty disappointing
 
Recap

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,956
Recap. Epic's sale has Epic funding $10 discounts at no cost to the developer.

1. The game has been $19.99 since launch in December. Earlier today they said they currently had no plans to raise the price after Early Access, and if they did they would announce it well in advance.



2. The game had its own 15% off sale making it $16.99, then with the Epic funded $10 off it became $6.99. For Supergiant that was still effectively a $16.99 sale, with Epic eating the extra $10. People in Europe noted that 15% off discount brought it just below 14.99 so they couldn't get the Epic 10 off discount. Epic contacted Supergiant and they adjusted the price slightly higher so the Epic 10 discount would apply.



3. Later in the day, Supergiant decided to suddenly and permanently raise the price to $24.99 citing improvements to the game, with the only discount now being the Epic $10, and then present this as 25% discount off the original $19.99 price, even though Epic is entirely funding that $10 not Supergiant. Effectively, they screwed over customers with what some have said is illegal in the UK, EU and US, and they screwed over Epic. During an ongoing sale listed as valid to June 13 they removed their own 15% discount and also raised the base price, hours after saying they wouldn't do that. They just lost a sale here.
 
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Razgriz417

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,107
yup was planning to get Hades sight unseen today, now def gonna pass. Screw off with this price manipulation
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
This whole sale looks like a small scale disaster, it seems like EGS doesn't have the tools in place to fully inform developers of how sales will work nor does it have policies in place to prevent consumers from getting ripped off. It goes to show that Epic has a lot of work to do before their storefront is on par with fairly basic features of their competitors
 

Soulflarz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,803
Again, if they were going to drop the price after the sale was over, then it'd be 100% illegal for obvious reasons. If the price rise is permanent and if it was only an error that it didn't show up at the beginning of the sale, then it doesn't seem to violate any EU consumer law I'm aware of. But I dunno for sure, it's not like a product permanently rising in price is a very common situation.

Uhm, you can't do it regardless, future has nothing to do with it being illegal today.
 

itsrealfood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
231
Welp, I was going to grab this at the good price after work today but not anymore. Thanks for saving me a few bucks!
 

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,351
Parts Unknown
§ 233.1 Former price comparisons.
(a) One of the most commonly used forms of bargain advertising is to offer a reduction from the advertiser's own former price for an article. If the former price is the actual, bona fide price at which the article was offered to the public on a regular basis for a reasonably substantial period of time, it provides a legitimate basis for the advertising of a price comparison. Where the former price is genuine, the bargain being advertised is a true one. If, on the other hand, the former price being advertised is not bona fide but fictitious - for example, where an artificial, inflated price was established for the purpose of enabling the subsequent offer of a large reduction - the "bargain" being advertised is a false one; the purchaser is not receiving the unusual value he expects. In such a case, the "reduced" price is, in reality, probably just the seller's regular price.

(b) A former price is not necessarily fictitious merely because no sales at the advertised price were made. The advertiser should be especially careful, however, in such a case, that the price is one at which the product was openly and actively offered for sale, for a reasonably substantial period of time, in the recent, regular course of his business, honestly and in good faith - and, of course, not for the purpose of establishing a fictitious higher price on which a deceptive comparison might be based. And the advertiser should scrupulously avoid any implication that a former price is a selling, not an asking price (for example, by use of such language as, "Formerly sold at $___"), unless substantial sales at that price were actually made.

(c) The following is an example of a price comparison based on a fictitious former price. John Doe is a retailer of Brand X fountain pens, which cost him $5 each. His usual markup is 50 percent over cost; that is, his regular retail price is $7.50. In order subsequently to offer an unusual "bargain", Doe begins offering Brand X at $10 per pen. He realizes that he will be able to sell no, or very few, pens at this inflated price. But he doesn't care, for he maintains that price for only a few days. Then he "cuts" the price to its usual level - $7.50 - and advertises: "Terrific Bargain: X Pens, Were $10, Now Only $7.50!" This is obviously a false claim. The advertised "bargain" is not genuine.

(d) Other illustrations of fictitious price comparisons could be given. An advertiser might use a price at which he never offered the article at all; he might feature a price which was not used in the regular course of business, or which was not used in the recent past but at some remote period in the past, without making disclosure of that fact; he might use a price that was not openly offered to the public, or that was not maintained for a reasonable length of time, but was immediately reduced.

(e) If the former price is set forth in the advertisement, whether accompanied or not by descriptive terminology such as "Regularly," "Usually," "Formerly," etc., the advertiser should make certain that the former price is not a fictitious one. If the former price, or the amount or percentage of reduction, is not stated in the advertisement, as when the ad merely states, "Sale," the advertiser must take care that the amount of reduction is not so insignificant as to be meaningless. It should be sufficiently large that the consumer, if he knew what it was, would believe that a genuine bargain or saving was being offered. An advertiser who claims that an item has been "Reduced to $9.99," when the former price was $10, is misleading the consumer, who will understand the claim to mean that a much greater, and not merely nominal, reduction was being offered. [Guide I]
Emphasis mine.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/233.1


Unsuprisingly, this breaks FTC guidelines since Hades was never actually offered to consumers for $24.99. I'm no lawyer, though.
 

Zones

Member
Oct 28, 2017
293
wasnt epic covering the $10 off though? so it wouldnt make a difference to them because they were still getting their asking price. this is a "lets take advantage of the sale to make more profit" move. thats fair enough, but instead of them getting $5 from me and $10 from epic, now they arent getting shit from my sale because im not buying anymore.
That's exactly the case. I mean who would have thought indie devs can be as greedy as the larger corporations?
 

Ryutaryi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,069
So Supergiant is a piece of shit too, huh? Will be avoiding them from now on if they're going to be so shady about their game pricing.

Edit: Looks like everything has been fixed? Hopefully that was a one-time blunder.
 
Last edited:

NeoKnight

Member
Oct 28, 2017
651
This is EA level of bad karma and a move strictly to anger potential customers (guess they won't be anymore). Supergiant being superdouchebags with that move IMO.

I got it at the cheaper price, yet darn, my friends and I definitely won't be supporting that studio moving forward. This was not a "price error" then, they intentionally increased the price to $24.99 in the last few hours to raise the price on the EGS.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Apologies if this is retreading old ground. I posted a similar post in the EGS sale thread.

1. The game has been $19.99 since launch in December. Earlier today they said they currently had no plans to raise the price after Early Access, and if they did they would announce it well in advance.



2. The game had its own 15% off sale making it $16.99, then with the Epic funded $10 off it became $6.99. People in Europe noted that discount brought it just below 14.99 so they couldn't get the Epic 10 off discount. Epic contacted Supergiant and they adjusted the price slightly higher so it would apply.



3. Later in the day, Supergiant decided to suddenly raise the price to $24.99 citing improvements to the game, with the only discount now being the Epic $10, and then present this as 25% discount off the price, even though Epic is funding that $10. Effectively, they screwed over customers with what someone said is illegal in the UK, and they screwed over Epic. They just lost a sale here.

Perfect recap, nice!
Should be in the OP.
Emphasis mine.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/233.1


Unsuprisingly, this breaks FTC guidelines since Hades was never actually sold at $24.99. I'm no lawyer, though.
Interesting, didn't think that was like this in the US too.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,969
United Kingdom
haha I was about to buy this game since I saw they fixed the pricing so it was eligible for the £10 off, then I see this thread. Nah pass.
 

adj_noun

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,182
If nothing else, the next time they do something like this people are gonna jump on the cheapy stuff HARD in case it gets pulled/upped later
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
wasnt epic covering the $10 off though? so it wouldnt make a difference to them because they were still getting their asking price. this is a "lets take advantage of the sale to make more profit" move. thats fair enough, but instead of them getting $5 from me and $10 from epic, now they arent getting shit from my sale because im not buying anymore.
They were covering their asses for the future when nobody would want to buy the game anytime soon because they could wait until the game was less than 10 dollars when it's still relatively new. At least that's the mindset I would think.

If nothing else, the next time they do something like this people are gonna jump on the cheapy stuff HARD in case it gets pulled/upped later

Think of it as those timed Steam sales we used to have. God I miss Steam summer sales lmao.
 

Keyouta

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,193
Canada
Sounds like they found a way to make more money during a sale - certainly not a good look. I was going to buy it after work, too.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,240
wasnt epic covering the $10 off though? so it wouldnt make a difference to them because they were still getting their asking price. this is a "lets take advantage of the sale to make more profit" move. thats fair enough, but instead of them getting $5 from me and $10 from epic, now they arent getting shit from my sale because im not buying anymore.

Epic covering the difference doesn't actually make everything whole if they drop all the listed prices in the process.

Publishers have to protect their game's prices. If this rings up as Hades is $7, then that goes in a bunch of databases that the lowest price for the game is $7, even if the reality was Supergiant was charging $17 and Epic was making up the difference. Then when new people hear about the game and go looking for a price history, they see the game's been down to $7 and think "when it hits that again I'll buy it".

There were probably ways to do this that wouldn't have inspired this sort of reaction. If EGS applied this as a $10 discount at the register and left all the store prices alone, or was offering $10 in credit per game purchase, I don't think you would have seen the sorts of responses we've seen in terms of games getting pulled and this Hades stuff.

EDIT: And not to say this was a smart move. In fact, this reads as probably more of a pricing error and trying to do the fastest possible thing that just makes the price right again without thinking it through.