Nah man. The point is that God is evil. He lets all evil happen. It mirrors what I'd feel about the Christian God if I thought that existed. Read the Bible - God is awful.
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Supernatural Season 14 |OT| Nobody Else Wanted to Make It
- Thread starter PhoncipleBone
- Start date
Nah man. The point is that God is evil. He lets all evil happen. It mirrors what I'd feel about the Christian God if I thought that existed. Read the Bible - God is awful.
The way Mary got killed off was such a load of bullshit, but she was a female character in Supernatural so it's amazing she lasted this long.
We know it is theorically possible to defeat someone who has god-like powers. It "just" take some witches, archangels and demons, and the Empty is full (no pun intended) of them.
Too bad the dead demons didn't come back as well since they weren't in hell. At least one full episode with the Yellow-Eyed Demon would be great.
I mean, up to now he was supposed to be a true neutral character. The only way to eliminate evil is removing free will, but mind control / mind tampering is usually considered one the evilest things in fiction by itself.
Too bad the dead demons didn't come back as well since they weren't in hell. At least one full episode with the Yellow-Eyed Demon would be great.
I mean, up to now he was supposed to be a true neutral character. The only way to eliminate evil is removing free will, but mind control / mind tampering is usually considered one the evilest things in fiction by itself.
My only consolation is that hopefully after S15 ends, we'll look back and realize there was no place for her in the final season.
Only in the old testament though. He got nicer.
She didn't want to sleep with Dean, it helped.
For those who are saying that this Chuck is not Chuck but the Antichrist, maybe there is a clue in the episode.
Chuck tells the story about Abraham and Isaac, but in the bibble, Abraham doesnt kill Isaac, an angel stops him. So, unless the writers forgot about that fact, maybe this God is not the real God.
Or... it doesnt mean anything haha.
Chuck tells the story about Abraham and Isaac, but in the bibble, Abraham doesnt kill Isaac, an angel stops him. So, unless the writers forgot about that fact, maybe this God is not the real God.
Or... it doesnt mean anything haha.
Also thought it was interesting that Chuck didn't answer Cas when he called him God when Jack turned off the lying. At first you think it's just because Chuck likes being called Chuck, but he had no issue calling himself God when he turned the lying back on. Makes you wonder if he made a face when Cas called him God because he actually wasn't and couldn't lie about it in that moment.
This doesn't mean the Chuck we saw in Season 11 wasn't God, though, because Lucifer would had definitely not been fooled seeing as he actually knows God. I still don't believe that was the real Chuck, and it would be aggravating if it was.
I'm still surprised so many are okay with this twist. It is so unearned, imo.
I will say, though, when they introduced the multiverse and Michael pretty much said God created the multiverse, I started to get a bit worried. Before Michael said that, I figured all these other universes probably had different Gods and Chuck was probably one of several. Once Michael confirmed there was just one, everything does start to track with the story they are currently trying to tell with God (that he abandons failed universes aka failed drafts). Unfortunately it tracks poorly with seasons 5-11, imo. Seasons 5-11 paints him as a neutral character trying to allow humans to exhibit free will.
Seasons 12-14 now paint him as more evil leaning (with him abandoning universes he doesn't like) and uncaring of free will. It's a completely different character.
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Yeah, there is little things through the whole episode that could point to this Chuck not being the real Chuck, after all, Supernatural has always been very twisty.
Yeah. I edited this into my previous post. I am worried still they are going with this being the real Chuck/God simply because of this whole multiverse thing that started end of season 12 actually tracks with this new version of God they retconned him into.
I will say, though, when they introduced the multiverse and Michael pretty much said God created the multiverse, I started to get a bit worried. Before Michael said that, I figured all these other universes probably had different Gods and Chuck was probably one of several. Once Michael confirmed there was just one, everything does start to track with the story they are currently trying to tell with God (that he abandons failed universes aka failed drafts). Unfortunately it tracks poorly with seasons 5-11, imo. Seasons 5-11 paints him as a neutral character trying to allow humans to exhibit and learn free will.
Seasons 12-14 now paint him as more evil leaning (with him abandoning universes he doesn't like) and uncaring of free will. It's a completely different character.
Yeah, this is also true.
on the other hand, the other universes we saw, are universes where things clearly went very wrong. In one, apocalypse did happend and in others, there are things apparently much worse than demons and angels, so maybe God couldnt do anything more than create a new one where none of that happend.
Did they change directors after season 11? Because that would explain all the changes you explained with this new direction of Chuck.
I know we're all on the big Chuck twist in this but I'm surprised no one in the thread has commented on how amazing it was that two of the spirits released were the same ones that Sam and Dean sent to Hell in the first season: Bloody Mary and the Woman in White from the very first episode.
I think they were even the same actresses.
I think they were even the same actresses.
Bloody Mary is the same, but Woman in White isn't.I know we're all on the big Chuck twist in this but I'm surprised no one in the thread has commented on how amazing it was that two of the spirits released were the same ones that Sam and Dean sent to Hell in the first season: Bloody Mary and the Woman in White from the very first episode.
I think they were even the same actresses.
Yeah, the Woman in White looks different. But the Supernatural Wiki lists different actresses for Bloody Mary even though it's the same actress as season 1, as she was tweeting about being back. Haha.
Who know who needs to be in S15,
Bring her back
People always say that an im always like "S11 was the best the show ever was" not anymore.
Seasons 6-10 were some awful seasons so with 11 being retroactively ruined we got 5 bad seasons, 2 average and a not great. It really just killed my excitement.
God being not so good was excellent because then other can have a truth to what they say, like Michael.
Being completely "bad" is just too much.
He also just ends up being Metatron V2 who was already pushing into just being annoying instead of a good villain.
Bring her back
Yeah, personally it damages the 2 best seasons retroactively so bad that I now am in agreement with the people saying it should have ended at S5.
People always say that an im always like "S11 was the best the show ever was" not anymore.
Seasons 6-10 were some awful seasons so with 11 being retroactively ruined we got 5 bad seasons, 2 average and a not great. It really just killed my excitement.
God being not so good was excellent because then other can have a truth to what they say, like Michael.
Being completely "bad" is just too much.
He also just ends up being Metatron V2 who was already pushing into just being annoying instead of a good villain.
Where I'm at. Chuck was more of the deist version(or at least a lite version): all-powerful but detached and separate from his creation. This new twist however paints him as a 2003-era Xbox live chad going through puberty.
Hoping there's far more twists and what we see is not what we get, especially since this is the final season coming up.
On the one hand, that episode was great: the acting, the tension, the no lying thing, etc. On the other hand, I kind of hated what they did with Chuck. I know a lot of people think it's not the real chuck, but I don't think the show was intentionally doing that, especially with the Motorhead song at the end, "God was never on your side."
Granted, the end was so wild that I can't wait to see the next season, even if they ruined Chuck. Also, something about the way he left made me think Chuck wouldn't even be in the next season, maybe. Like he just decided to leave this universe and try again, so he triggered the apocalypse and fucked off.
Also, perhaps a silly question but: Jack had burned off all his soul, obviously, which is why he couldn't feel emotion anymore. So when Chuck killed Jack, what exactly woke up in the empty? Like...what is it? It's not his body or his soul so I'm confused.
Granted, the end was so wild that I can't wait to see the next season, even if they ruined Chuck. Also, something about the way he left made me think Chuck wouldn't even be in the next season, maybe. Like he just decided to leave this universe and try again, so he triggered the apocalypse and fucked off.
Also, perhaps a silly question but: Jack had burned off all his soul, obviously, which is why he couldn't feel emotion anymore. So when Chuck killed Jack, what exactly woke up in the empty? Like...what is it? It's not his body or his soul so I'm confused.
What if this Chuck is a tulpa created by fans of the Supernatural books because they don't want them to end. That way they get their meta commentary and it doesn't ruin the real Chuck.
There are already some pretty great theory videos out there on YouTube. Here is one I found with some decent theories in it:
https://youtu.be/CJx8h5JSpVY
https://youtu.be/CJx8h5JSpVY
His Angel part. Remember only Angels & Demons go to The Empty, since he has no more human soul and just Angel grace he'd go to The Empty. However, I think he still has a small part of human soul left which is why Billie showed up
For some reason I thought angels still had souls though. Like that's how he was able to level up human souls to angel ones. But your explanation at least makes sense, so I'll go with that.
Nah Angels have no souls just angelic grace. It's why he was so powerful because he had the human soul and the angelic grace making it a deadly combo. I have no idea how he was able to power up humans into Angels tho
Oh yeah! That makes sense about him being so powerful because of that. (Angel level up still doesn't make sense as you said though, because I guess he'd be creating angel grace out of thin air?) Granted, he seemed to be at his most powerful after he burned off his soul, which I don't get now, but eh, I'm probably thinking about this too much.
I was a bit taken aback about it myself, but not the end of the world.
the finale was good.
I was really happy to see that the hitchhiking ghost girl from one of the series' best and earliest episodes was shown at the end and given her own mini return scene.
I miss those days, what with her, the scarecrow and some of the other fantastic monsters of the week.
I've still enjoyed modern Supernatural, but it's too story and lore based. Too much Cas, Rowena, etc.
I miss those days, what with her, the scarecrow and some of the other fantastic monsters of the week.
I've still enjoyed modern Supernatural, but it's too story and lore based. Too much Cas, Rowena, etc.
agree 100%. the show more often than not feels way different than than earlier seasons, and has for a long, long time. I'm sure losing the showrunner and budget changes also had something to do with that. (and you know, the dragging this shit out as long as possible)
Yeah. Plus the show lasting for as long as it has.
I've been strongly considering going back and watching from the start again, because I loved those early seasons when I started watching maybe 7-8 years ago because of a marathon and torrents from a friend.
But then I realize how much of a time investment that'd be and wonder where I'd find access without buying the DVDs.
I just read one of the novels, and thought about reading all of them, but there's 17, and the library only has a few of them. The one I read (Joyride) was only okay, and dragged. They'd cost $175 to buy.
Netflix ?
If you aren't subscribed just get the free monthly trial, which is enough to marathon the first five seasons.
The show is technically in a better position to have more Monster Of The Week episodes, but then again I'm afraid that would feel like time wasted for the final season. Unless they're dealing with spirits of old characters. That'd be neat.
Also, since this is the first time in ages that the main antagonist is actually compelling, I hope they focus on that and build a strong arc for a worthy finale.
Also yeah Billie sucks and please don't bring back Lucifer again. Thanks.
S14 comes out today on Netflix. I skipped S14 this year, not intentionally but I missed the first couple weeks due to forgetfulness and I decided then to just wait and binge it after the season ended. Tonight I start my binging!!!!
Supernatural going all out for the final season. In hindsight God being the end villain feels so right.
Oh you're in Canada... afraid you're SOL then :/
https://spnhunters.com/2018/09/15/supernatural-leaving-netflix-canada/
Here in Brazil it's not on Netflix anymore, but it is on Amazon Prime Video. Maybe in Canada too? They have a 7 day free trial, and you pay only half during the six first months.
Yeah, that was great. The hitchhiking ghost girl was actually the very first episode! A great beginning.
hopefully they have a big enough budget to actually make the concept ( vs god) worth doing instead of mostly talking in a room with the occasional big-ish scene.
I actually like more when they win more on wits than on brawn so I would have no probem with talking in a room
we've had enough of that "wit" (i.e lots of repetition that all too often feels like your typical CW soap), time to go big and get back to doing something interesting with the camera/resoruces.
Wow, finally got around to watching the finale. Did not see God showing back up coming, and definitely didn't see the evil turn coming until near the end of the episode. Even then I didn't think he was going to go full blown evil.
I can understand the criticisms of how that makes older seasons seem to some degree, but at the same time I think it's too early to judge. Clearly there's going to be some development with this over the final season. Plus, I'm not one to let my previous enjoyment be ruined due to character assassination in later seasons.
Overall, genuinely enjoyed the finale for doing something bold that sets up the final season to be really crazy. Hopefully they stick the landing.
I can understand the criticisms of how that makes older seasons seem to some degree, but at the same time I think it's too early to judge. Clearly there's going to be some development with this over the final season. Plus, I'm not one to let my previous enjoyment be ruined due to character assassination in later seasons.
Overall, genuinely enjoyed the finale for doing something bold that sets up the final season to be really crazy. Hopefully they stick the landing.
There has been small hints that god was always a dick since the very beginning of the show. Just a few things I remember:
-The angels constantly talking about god randomly abandoning heaven.
-Michael, Lucifer, etc talking about god not caring, abandoning heaven, people, etc.
-When God appeared in season 11 he certainly didn't give a damn about anyone.
There are a LOT more I am forgetting but the hints were always there this entire time that god may not be the "good guy" everyone expected him to be.
-The angels constantly talking about god randomly abandoning heaven.
-Michael, Lucifer, etc talking about god not caring, abandoning heaven, people, etc.
-When God appeared in season 11 he certainly didn't give a damn about anyone.
There are a LOT more I am forgetting but the hints were always there this entire time that god may not be the "good guy" everyone expected him to be.
There are so many Supernatural novels. I don't know if I really want to or should jump down the rabbit hole. The one I read was okay, but there's 16 or 17 others at $10 a piece.
I've seen other people say this too but those were not hints. They showed in previous seasons that God wasn't perfect. He had his faults but he was not full blown evil that the finale showed. I mean, it was comical how obvious Chuck's 'manupulation" were. It was completely out of character
Maybe the darkness has something to do with it. Like Jack's lack of a soul is a parallel with the effect the darkness has had on Chuck.
I agree. It's perfectly in line with how Lucifer changed - S5 Lucifer, under Kripke's command was calm, collected, menacing and serious. Sure, he had a few good jokes, but the Lucifer in S5 had an angelic quality to him, and he delivered some of the best dialogue in the show.
Carver's take on Lucifer still had some "oomph", but Dabb's portrayal of him was a total shitshow in my opinion. He's basically became an MCU character with the constant quips, pop culture references. His motivations are all over the place and a lot of the time he was just evil for the sake of being evil, much like a random demon. Pellegrino is a fantastic actor and I'm glad he got to stick around for longer but in my opinion his talent was largely wasted.
Kripke's and Carver's Chuck was pretty similiar, and S11 Chuck has provided a lot of great exposition and reasons for his actions. He was flawed, he was a human with god powers basically. He didn't want people to commit atrocities in his name, he has given us free will. There was nothing really to suggest that he was just playing around, especially if you go back to the episode where he invites Metatron to critique his writing.
But Dabb's Chuck.... yeah. His constant smirks, his "oh, here's a gun out of nowhere that can kill Jack, but I can't do it, you must" act... it was hilariously on the nose, like a cartoon villain. The one thing I can say though is that at least this makes explainaing multiple universe really easy, with Chuck just discarding them as he gets bored.
(and that's another thing - I highly doubt multiverses were actually ever planned to become a big thing until Dabb came along - although "French Mistake" is often brought up as proof that they were always part of the show, I feel that episode, because of its comedic nature, was planned as a one-off, rather than a tease for later.)
With that being said I have warmed up to the idea of S15, simply because the writers can really have fun with the meta here.
They called her the darkness, but in the end she turned out to be quite nice though.
Vengeful, murderous, and was willing to destroy the universe. But quite nice. Two sides of the same coin.
I'm just saying it seemed easy for God to kill Jack, or so he thinks. So the entire ruse seemed pointless if he was afraid of him. He seemed to take an unusual amount of glee in torturing people, the kind of sadism not out of character for characters without souls.
It makes me wonder if Jack ultimately takes over from God and that's the wonderful bright future he was supposed to usher in.
She was imprisoned for all of existence and then came into contact with the ruler of hell. When she finally got her revenge, she immediately undid the damage and let go of her anger and jealousy. But those are things God himself also demonstrated before Amara came into the picture.
I'm catching up with the series and season 12 was kind of a slog. Not terrible per se, just kind of aimless and without a strong narrative. Season 13 (just finished it) is beyond stupid but I liked it way more. Outside of the obvious Scoobynatural episode which was fantastic, the entire season has been pretty damn funny all around. Gabriel coming back was great and I liked how they fleshed out the character with the Norse gods episode. The Nephilim wasn't that bad even though at first I didn't like him at all, the actor is horrible though.
In general a good season, and what I hear about season 14 sounds pretty great as well.
I spoiled a lot of stuff about 14 but it's not a big deal for me, can't wait to see God as the final boss. Makes too much sense.
In general a good season, and what I hear about season 14 sounds pretty great as well.
I spoiled a lot of stuff about 14 but it's not a big deal for me, can't wait to see God as the final boss. Makes too much sense.
I wonder if The Empty was the one responsible. He may have made a deal but he's under no obligation to keep it. We've seen he's capable of changing his form like he did when Castiel first woke up. We've also seen he's incredibly powerful and was able to enter Heaven somehow. He must be as old if not older than God. Perhaps he wanted Jack because like how Angels power Heaven they power him when they die? Could be why he's so strong. If it was The Empty it might also explain why Billie went there to talk.