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Survivor 38: Edge of Extinction |OT| Where Castaways Attempt to Jump the Shark

NotmyStarTrek.com. Nimoy come back to me. Not happy Chris won but he did make the massive move. Not his fault that was the twist of the season. He just played it perfectly.
I don't consider Chris' move massive. Its really his only move that can win him the game. Think about it, if he lets Gavin and Devens make fire I would almost guarantee the winner beats Chris in final 3.
 
Oct 27, 2017
970
If I wasn't laughing so hard at this finale, I would be frickin' furious right now.

So I guess that's why we weren't supposed to care about anyone except the 4 returnees and Devens. Because 9 of the 13 episodes didn't actually matter to the end result.

I am still appreciative that they tried this experiment, that were willing to play with it to see what happened. But they should never do this experiment again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,762
If I wasn't laughing so hard at this finale, I would be frickin' furious right now.

So I guess that's why we weren't supposed to care about anyone except the 4 returnees and Devens. Because 9 of the 13 episodes didn't actually matter to the end result.

I am still appreciative that they tried this experiment, that were willing to play with it to see what happened. But they should never do this experiment again.
Yeah, I mean, throughout this whole season I was probably one of the most positive people towards the season compared to most of this thread, but this finale was just such a limp finish. And I don't get why they thought dropping someone in the game at Final 6 with an idol was a good idea. At that point, it's not even a competition anymore.
 
Oct 27, 2017
622
Just going to throw this out there. Anyone asking for a season without idols doesn’t know what they want. It’s like vanilla WoW, you think it’s what you want but you really don’t. Let me tell you how a season without idols plays out. People sit on a beach. The people with half a brain form a couple groups of goats and the side with more goats wins. No chance to flip the game. I have seen it happen in games with several twists and the problem would only be exaggerated without them. Underdogs are what this show thrives on and without them you have people like Aurora who would rather sit on the bottom of their alliance and be sent home than make a move.

Without idols this season would have been dull as shit and I certainly wouldn’t have finished it.

I also like the idea to change the title to something GoTish. Those folks don’t even know what true disappointment feels like. This honestly might have soured my desire to continue on with these reality shows. I’m used to the person I like losing in the end but this was a whole different level of travesty. No one on that final 3 deserved anything, especially the call backs they got from casting. End rant.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,304
The issue is that because they're now filming at a relatively small beach over and over and over again, throwing out the idols virtually guarantees that they get found immediately. There's nothing spacing out the idols, making them a special event when found, they're pouring into the game like a flood.
 
Mar 1, 2019
14
I ask for seasons without idols all the time, and I do know what I'm asking for. I rewatch Survivor seasons pretty regularly. Seasons without idols and seasons where idols are completely irrelevant to the story are my favorites in general. Amazon, Pearl Islands, Vanuatu, China, Gabon, Nicaragua, Kaoh Rong. I do love Micronesia, Heroes vs. Villains, San Juan Del Sur, and David vs. Goliath too. (Although SJDS's idols were largely irrelevant for 99% of the season).

But I don't watch Survivor to see big moves and people building their resumes. The appeal of Survivor to me is (or was, rather, seeing as it's pretty rare to find this in modern Survivor) watching people building relationships with one another and having those relationships dictate how the game is played. Seasons that are a lot more character heavy instead of strategy heavy are my favorites. Watching Twila and Eliza feud all season long, culminating in the final four tribal council where Chris finally has to pick between the two is infinitely more entertaining to me than watching 6 different idol hunting scenes in one season.

Idolless seasons and seasons where they're irrelevant also produce more impressive players to me. You can have great underdog stories without idols. Going back to Vanuatu, watching Chris find himself in the final 7 with all of his allies on the jury, but managing to use his relationships to make Ami and Leann think "You know what, I'd rather spend 3 more days with Chris than Eliza,", making Eliza turn on Ami and Leann is more impressive and entertaining than Chris finding an idol. Aubry in Kaoh Rong using her relationship with Tai to convince Tai not to save Scot is more impressive and entertaining than Aubry finding an idol.

Even in seasons where the underdogs get completely wiped out, watching Casaya in Panama barely managing to function as a group is more entertaining to me than watching the La Mina alliance find idols. Watching all of Fang's antics in Gabon is more entertaining than one of the Onions idoling their way to the end. In Palau, watching Janu basically give up while Stephanie was in tears, desperately wanting to stay in the game is a lot more entertaining than Stephanie finding an idol to last one more round.

Seasons with idols (or rather, seasons with a lot of idols) tend to push character development to the side in favor of people hunting for idols, idol paranoia, people trying to plan votes around idols, and people talking about whether or not they should play their idol. To me it's like, why should I care if that person with no allies plays an idol if most of what they've talked about is idol this, idol that, and the only thing other players say about them is "do they have an idol? We should split the votes. They're dangerous. They might have an idol."

Seasons without idols don't have that problem obviously. They spend a lot more time developing the players and their relationships. So even if the underdog is gone right after the merge and an alliance streamrolls their way to the end, I still find enjoyment because I've come to know the characters inside and out.

Edit: I should add that one of my favorite moments in 38 seasons is Eliza staring down Chris at the final 4 of Vanuatu after getting voted out, followed by her jury question to him later on in the finale. "While I knew that Twila was a deceptive, lying bitch I did not know that you were a deceptive, lying bitch too. You stabbed me in the back with the Julie thing and then you stabbed me and the back and rubbed salt in the wound. UN.NECESSARY." And watching Chris's (feigned) shame. It was the culmination of 14 episodes of watching Eliza, not as a player, but as a person building genuine relationships over 37 days of Survivor.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
2,553
Ugh, don't want to say Devins was cheated of a win, because it was his if he just built his fire, but damn if Chris winning doesn't put just a hint of sour taste in my mouth.

Fewer idols next season please
 
Mar 1, 2019
14
I also want to say that I know Survivor isn't exactly for me anymore. The Survivor I want to see is a Survivor where the social game and people's relationship's are completely front and center. In my ideal world, blindsides, people flipping and the like shouldn't be taken into account when the jury is deciding a winner. It should be how well the finalists managed their relationships despite the blindsides.

The shift away from the Survivor I want to the modern Survivor happened with Samoa. When the show was edited so heavily in favor of Russell's style of gameplay that it downplayed the importance of Natalie's game. People only saw Russell controlling vote after vote and barely saw any of Natalie's connections with Galu. Of course the general public reacted negatively when, like the 18 seasons prior to Samoa, the person with the better social bonds won. But from then on out, people have largely gone into Survivor not wanting be known as a bitter jury.

There have been a few seasons here and there where relationships took the center stage, like Nicaragua, San Juan Del Sur, Kaoh Rong, and David vs. Goliath, but they're few and far between now. In general, it's all about who can find the most idols, who can pull of the most blindsides, who can play advantages right, and who pulled off the biggest moves.

A return to basics seasons without idols and advantages, focusing solely on the social part of the game would be right up my alley. But I'm not holding my breath.
 
Oct 28, 2017
316
I don't really keep up with Survivor outside of the show itself so it's pretty interesting seeing how emotional and angry people are getting after reading the past few pages. Survivor is a reality TV show first and a competition second. Seems like the common sentiment here is that people aren't a fan of twists and numerous idols but there's a reason why Survivor has gone as long as it has.

I think Chris did pretty well with the hand he was dealt. Nominating himself for the fire making challenge was a big move and really could have backfired on him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
887
As much as I loved Devins gameplay and wanted him to win I feel if he did win there would be just as many people calling out the amount of idols he found questionable as there are people dissatisfied with Chris. The big L move was obviously not keeping his half of the idol but that's easy to say in hindsight. It would feel like he was in a vipers pit with the other three and no one saw that finale coming. Crazy.
 
Oct 28, 2017
142
When I said I wanted anybody except Rick to win, I didn't expect it to be Chris of all people. I think it says a lot about the current state of show when the 3rd boot, voted out at Day 8, wins the game. Oh well, it is at least better than Rick winning. It is also laughable that Rick wants to downplay the randomness of his game when that's all his game was; free idols given by production and treasure hunts for idols.

The general reception to this season seems to be low, some even ranking it down with RI. While it is a step down from DvG, it's far above RI. I'd put above the likes of MvGenX and GI. Also, I'm getting more convinced that for each passing season, the chances of a woman winning is decreasing (newbies only).
 
Mar 1, 2018
785
I wanted Devens to win but i did like the way he went out, big respect to Chris for that move. Only problem is i really have no idea who Chris is lol. And then he wins. I wish Gavin would have won but whatever. A pretty meh ending but I really did enjoy most of the season.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,511
Terrible ending and now Chris has officially beaten Ben to me as the worst winner of Survivor. I find it funny that the most common praise I see given to Chris on twitter is that he has a big dick LOL. I hope they never do this twist again and they really should have given Chris more screentime because casual don't know who he is.
 
I also want to say that I know Survivor isn't exactly for me anymore. The Survivor I want to see is a Survivor where the social game and people's relationship's are completely front and center. In my ideal world, blindsides, people flipping and the like shouldn't be taken into account when the jury is deciding a winner. It should be how well the finalists managed their relationships despite the blindsides.

The shift away from the Survivor I want to the modern Survivor happened with Samoa. When the show was edited so heavily in favor of Russell's style of gameplay that it downplayed the importance of Natalie's game. People only saw Russell controlling vote after vote and barely saw any of Natalie's connections with Galu. Of course the general public reacted negatively when, like the 18 seasons prior to Samoa, the person with the better social bonds won. But from then on out, people have largely gone into Survivor not wanting be known as a bitter jury.

There have been a few seasons here and there where relationships took the center stage, like Nicaragua, San Juan Del Sur, Kaoh Rong, and David vs. Goliath, but they're few and far between now. In general, it's all about who can find the most idols, who can pull of the most blindsides, who can play advantages right, and who pulled off the biggest moves.

A return to basics seasons without idols and advantages, focusing solely on the social part of the game would be right up my alley. But I'm not holding my breath.
FYI, a big reason why folks enjoy Survivor Australia is because it's largely "back to basics" in its approach. There are still idols and the like in play but the focus is on character/relationship dynamics (the extended length episodes go a long way here) and not ones that are manufactured by editing or framing by the host.
 
I actually liked Chris' win. I came into the finale tonight expecting to be disappointed and with full confidence that no one from the Edge could deserve a win. I was wrong. Chris proved his worth in three days more than anyone else did in an entire season, and I include Devens in that statement.

Chris went out of the game originally playing hard. His tribe saw that, or really the returning players saw that, and they punished him for it because he was a threat. When he returned, he played hard again. At the final tribal, he says he knew he needed to make and succeed in every big move he possibly could. He did. Let's see what he did:

Final 6 - Chris makes an alliance with two different people, both of whom trust him and would vote with him without knowing about the other. He does so in a single day even though one of those people already had a solid, established final 3 and simply needed to skate into it. Lauren was guaranteed to get to the end and probably win had she stayed the course, but Chris convinced her not to. Instead, she was subtlety convinced that she needed to play her idol on her brand new ally even though doing so made little strategic sense since she was safe and might not be on the next vote. Chris did this so well that Lauren didn't even realize he had a hand in it, as evidenced by her reaction at final tribal. Lauren certainly had some agency there, but there's no chance she'd have done it without him planting the seeds. So in a single tribal, he beheads the majority alliance and flushes an idol out of his next target.

Final 5 - He plays his idol correctly and then removes an ally from the game, demonstrating his ability to make moves at the cost of his own alliance.

Final 4 - It's obvious Chris wanted Devens in the final four from the start so that he could say that he was the one that took Devens out of the game. Even better, he wins immunity so that he's able to make a sacrifice and risk to do it. Giving up final four immunity is unheard of and comes with extreme risk, especially since he had to know Devens was good at making fire. He also played up the spectacle of it at tribal, and frankly that's an important skill and move all in itself. He could have told everyone beforehand, but he kept it to himself so that after everyone proclaimed they were willing to fight the evil Devens, Chris came in to say that he was the hero in this story. And he was.

Final 3 - Chris highlighted the fact that he made more and bigger moves in the time he was given than either of the others despite them having vastly more time to make big moves. Frankly, if they had, they would have won.

I wish Chris hadn't won only because I wish the Edge of Extinction didn't even exist. It was cool or interesting. Maybe at the merge it works fine, but getting in at final six with immunity is too much. That said, I think it's unfair to blame this on Chris. He wasn't a good winner by any stretch of the imagination -- he didn't have time to be a good winner. But he wasn't a bad winner. He made every big move he could and played one of the best final four days anyone ever has.

I hope they bring him back in Season 40. I think it'd be great to see whether he truly deserves it and has learned from his mistakes or if this was a fluke.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,511
Victoria got so screwed by this twist because Chris knew she was jury threat because he spent most of his days with the jury than actually playing survivors (If she wasn't so clearly bitter towards Gavin on Twitter and interviews I would feel more bad for herl. Honestly getting voted out this season is a huge benefit to your social and jury management game as long as you are good in challenges.
 
Chris came in, convinced Lauren to play her idol on him, then convinced Rick to give him back half of the other idol, and then did what none of the others were capable of doing: he sent Rick (the strongest player in my opinion to that point) to the jury. All this within a span of what, three days? Well deserved win even if not the ideal win.
 
Nov 6, 2017
2,310
Ugh, don't want to say Devins was cheated of a win, because it was his if he just built his fire, but damn if Chris winning doesn't put just a hint of sour taste in my mouth.

Fewer idols next season please
The only reason Devins made it to final 4 was because of all the idols.

This show is now overdosed with twists and idols. It completely dominates the game. Unfortunately, now that a winner has resulted from one of their major twists, that domination of twists and multi-idols is only going to continue and probably get even worse.
I'm beginning to think Survivor is going to become less and less popular. How long can this go on?
 
I'm glad Chris won, he deserved it after giving up the immunity necklace he won to Julie and taking Devin's head-on in the fire making challenge and winning. I don't think Gavin, or Julie deserved to win at all.
That’s literally the only thing he did in the game tho. I don’t think any of the final 3 deserved to win but I’d at least take Gavin, the guy who played all 40 days and didn’t have a single vote against him, over the guy who only played like 10 days total.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,478
Chris put his balls on the table and won for it. Good on him.
Gavin may as well have been one of the b-roll hermit crabs. Maybe that's not his fault, maybe that's the fault of the returning players thing on top of the exile thing on top of idol madness, but still.
Never liked Devens and he cemented it with the double fake idols.
 
That’s literally the only thing he did in the game tho. I don’t think any of the final 3 deserved to win but I’d at least take Gavin, the guy who played all 40 days and didn’t have a single vote against him, over the guy who only played like 10 days total.
He made it to Day 40 and never got a vote not from his skill at playing, but because he was a goat. Goats don't deserve wins by virtue of being goats. All he did was ride a majority alliance against a bunch of players that weren't interested in making moves. He wasn't even the symbolic head of the alliance. I'd have been extremely disappointed had he won. Chris deserved it more for playing a game.
 
He made it to Day 40 and never got a vote not from his skill at playing, but because he was a goat. Goats don't deserve wins by virtue of being goats. All he did was ride a majority alliance against a bunch of players that weren't interested in making moves. He wasn't even the symbolic head of the alliance. I'd have been extremely disappointed had he won. Chris deserved it more for playing a game.
Chris didn’t play a game until he was gifted a fast forward button to the F6 with an idol in his pocket. Gavin flew under the radar but he at least successfully aligned himself with the majority alliance and won an immunity challenge or two. Chris’s fire challenge move isn’t even that gutsy. He had nothing to lose. He shouldn’t win just because he chilled with the jury for a month and then came back and did one semi-noteworthy thing.
 
Chris didn’t play a game until he was gifted a fast forward button to the F6 with an idol in his pocket. Gavin flew under the radar but he at least successfully aligned himself with the majority alliance and won an immunity challenge or two. Chris’s fire challenge move isn’t even that gutsy. He had nothing to lose. He shouldn’t win just because he chilled with the jury for a month and then came back and did one semi-noteworthy thing.
He did not do only "one semi-noteworthy thing." He made tidal waves in all three of the tribals he was a part of. Chris' fire challenge move was gutsy. People do not normally do that. Plenty of players have had the opportunity and have chosen not to. He did have something to lose -- up to $40,000 which is the difference between 4th and 3rd depending on the season. That's a hell of a risk, which is why no one ever does it, but he did.
 
He did not do only "one semi-noteworthy thing." He made tidal waves in all three of the tribals he was a part of. Chris' fire challenge move was gutsy. People do not normally do that. Plenty of players have had the opportunity and have chosen not to. He did have something to lose -- up to $40,000 which is the difference between 4th and 3rd depending on the season. That's a hell of a risk, which is why no one ever does it, but he did.
No one has ever done that because no one’s ever been in his situation before where you’ve been out of the game for a month and this is your only chance to make a big resume-building move. 100% of contestants in his exact position would do the same thing.
 
No one has ever done that because no one’s ever been in his situation before where you’ve been out of the game for a month and this is your only chance to make a big resume-building move. 100% of contestants in his exact position would do the same thing.
I sincerely doubt that. He risked $40,000 on a gamble that he might win. A very risky gamble. He barely did win. If your only goal is to win, yes it makes sense. But if your goal is to maximize winnings, it’s a terrible idea and might lose you a lot.

No ones ever been in the exact same situation as anyone else. This entire concept is new. But in similar situations, no one did this. And it might have cost those players the win.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,057
Chris is one of my all-time favorite winners, and this is coming from someone who has watched Survivor from season 1, episode 1. He played his dick off in the few days he was there, and even with the supposed "unfair" advantages he's still a more deserving (and better) winner than someone like Ben.
Congratualations, he's better than a fucking stump in the ground with PTSD.

He's still a shit winner. Yes, he played the best he could at the end, but he did it AT THE END, after already failing to play correctly literally 8 days into the game.

Nobody blames him for doing it, he didn't make the twist, but that doesn't mean it's not shit.
 
Congratualations, he's better than a fucking stump in the ground with PTSD.

He's still a shit winner. Yes, he played the best he could at the end, but he did it AT THE END, after already failing to play correctly literally 8 days into the game.

Nobody blames him for doing it, he didn't make the twist, but that doesn't mean it's not shit.
Why did you feel the need to bash my opinion? All I was doing was stating it, I wasn’t saying anyone else’s opinion was wrong. Yet you felt the need to insert your own opinion as if it’s better? I don’t get it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,918
Congratualations, he's better than a fucking stump in the ground with PTSD.

He's still a shit winner. Yes, he played the best he could at the end, but he did it AT THE END, after already failing to play correctly literally 8 days into the game.

Nobody blames him for doing it, he didn't make the twist, but that doesn't mean it's not shit.
Settle down, it's a reality tv show


We're all under the assumption Rob and Sandra enter the game at some point, right? They wouldn't be baited out to live on an island if they didn't have the chance to win
 
Mar 1, 2019
14
FYI, a big reason why folks enjoy Survivor Australia is because it's largely "back to basics" in its approach. There are still idols and the like in play but the focus is on character/relationship dynamics (the extended length episodes go a long way here) and not ones that are manufactured by editing or framing by the host.
I love the Australian version of Survivor! I haven't watched last year's yet, but the two seasons before that were great. Last year's South African Survivor was top tier for me too.

Australian Survivor and South African Survivor are basically my canon now, lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,249
Kitchener, ON
We're all under the assumption Rob and Sandra enter the game at some point, right? They wouldn't be baited out to live on an island if they didn't have the chance to win
My expectation is that they don't enter the game at all...
and that this season is effectively serving as their guaranteed payday so they'd be willing to compete in S40's all-winner season where they'll be lucky to make the merge given how big their targets will be. AND... the fact that they have absolutely nothing left to prove.
 
Nov 8, 2017
1,022
Eh, Rick should’ve won, but Chris deserved it more than Gavin or Julie. Gavin made a few moves but never really did anything memorable, it’s the best of what’s left.

As for this next season, if rob and Sandra don’t compete, like what’s the fucking point? Is this the voice now?
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
412
Asia
I love the Australian version of Survivor! I haven't watched last year's yet, but the two seasons before that were great. Last year's South African Survivor was top tier for me too.

Australian Survivor and South African Survivor are basically my canon now, lol.
Er...what? :lol

Survivor SA is basically a foreign version of mainline survivor, maybe S20-S30 range. It runs short, it's hilarious, but they definitely roll with idols and things get messy. But the strategy is around that era. The complication with SA is that there are a lot of walks of life involved, so there are a lot of edges.

Survivor AUS strategy is pretty similar to the days of alliances and outward control (Vanuatu?), but it's also rapidly changing due to the current format of Champions vs. Challengers (basically, athletes, celebrities, other people of achievement). There are idols, but the crew are also harder on the cast and less likely to directly adhere to rules like idol repopulation. The show definitely likes playing with ideas like poison rewards (the "how best do I lie to my tribe after this?" problem). But it's definitely the closest to original survivor and the long runtime really helps.

As for this next season, if rob and Sandra don’t compete, like what’s the fucking point? Is this the voice now?
The show would be a disaster if they were competing, and that format was already well explored. This is basically an extension of the Cochran concept they had a few seasons ago (and possibly a way for them to get in shape if the winners season happens?) but I do agree there are some big unanswered questions on the format. Just replacing Jeff doesn't make sense, unless they want 40 players...