I mean.. this is sort of what the contestant signed up for. Create their own society while knowing that every moment they live out there is being filmed and could be shown. Seasons in the past have either dealt with or at least shown controversial moments, even to the detriment of the people involved. A clear recent example is the Zeke/Varner outing incident from Game Changers. But you go back in the show's history, and you have Boston Rob way back in season 4 demanding John Carroll come out of the closet to gain his trust. Production likes to forget that one.
Yeah, I'm done with it, too. Like I said earlier, the cast isn't blameless (I don't remember any Missy confessionals, though Elizabeth was... bad), but production can go to hell for not removing Dan earlier. Not ejecting him after repeated incidents of non-consensual cuddling with and fondling of multiple women is so gross. Putting the onus on victims to specifically request intervention (especially when they feel they may be risking $1 million if they do so) is disgusting.I don't think I can continue watching this season, for me it is tainted now. What happened to Kellee was so, so wrong. I literally broke down in tears watching that. Dan makes me sick to my stomach, and a special fuck you to Missy and Elizabeth for empowering that monster.
Same.there's obviously lines that can be crossed, they crossed it here for me. i don't have to square that with the history of the show. they have to sell the product to me week in, week out. they lost the sale.
I don't remember who it was but one of the women told Dan the "talk" was about him and he acted surprised but if he was warned wouldn't he have already known that? Is the show just covering their ass by pretending they warned him?
This tribal is horrible. and what aaron said was horrible. I hate this cast. Jamal is the only deserving winner right now.
Didn't it say they were all spoken to as a cast and all spoken to 1 by 1? It's possible the same thing was said to everyone and if he truly was ignorant about his actions, didn't realize it was about him.He was talking to missy and elizabeth (?) in the dark after the vote and yeah that was odd. Considering how the show said that before the vote: the producers had taken him aside for a chat.
Didn't it say they were all spoken to as a cast and all spoken to 1 by 1? It's possible the same thing was said to everyone and if he truly was ignorant about his actions, didn't realize it was about him.
AhhIt specifically said they gave him a warning. They had a meeting as a group and then talked to everyone individually.
I actually want to ask this, as I keep seeing people stating they take issue with it:
What is people's issue with Survivor/CBS/the producers of the show? Is it that they didn't intervene sooner/kick Dan off? Is it the way the episode was edited? Do people think they should've stopped filming and said "nah that's a wrap - this is fucked" - I actually don't know. From what I can tell, they very likely asked everyone involved if they wanted to keep going (namely Kellee) and I would imagine they all said "yes".
From where I was sitting, the problem was entirely with most of the players, not the show itself (I thought it was great that the producer was willing to break the 4th wall there and talk to Kellee, and that Jeff was wanting to have that discussion openly) - but I'm hoping to be enlightened here, I'm not trying to debate it.
I suspect they've gone into hiding due to being viciously attacked over social media.Well, I'm glad he did that.
He wasn't even first in line, either - where the hell are Elisabeth and Missy's apology videos?
yeah it's definitely tough - but I also think it comes back to maybe how the player's there reacted. We saw it first-hand with Kellee, she denied wanting any sort of help/interference and wanted to continue - if nothing else, that's kind of her saying "no, we'll take it up in the game" - is it not? I agree with everything you said, though.I agree that most of this is all on the players. My only real thing is CBS's fault is casting, this being the first season without the previous casting person. Also that they let people swing this as all gameplay. At what point do they have a responsibility to have some kind of reputation of their own to hold. They are basically letting people talk in a way that it would seem the producers are ready to intervene and talk to people based off of one persons game move implying that everyone else is unsafe. How does CBS let that continue and let them look worse and worse? They stepped in because multiple people had issues, it was documented, they issued a warning. You can't turn around and say "Nah, she lied for gameplay sake."
It's true - but I think that's because Dan was sort of considered "dealt with" - it was out in the open, he apologized (despite already being told on at least one other occasion that he was being inappropriate but continued anyway) - Jeff made him talk about it, etc. But the two women didn't say squat. The absolute least you could say for Dan is that maybe he really was completely ignorant to his own behavior (I wouldn't think so) - but what E and M did - especially given the social climate and the metoo movement, was absolutely fucked.I suspect they've gone into hiding due to being viciously attacked over social media.
As far as I can tell, the blowback from last night has hit them far worse than even Dan.
Lauren has been responsive somewhat although seems oblivious when justifying her gameplay last night.
Nobody was going after Aaron on social media outside of calling out his dick remarks (that Jamal so eloquently and expertly rebutted) during the 2nd tribal so going the apology route was an easy PR play for him.
Yes. Putting the onus on the victim to demand intervention when she's in a compromised position to do so (without risking a million dollars) is gross. Dan would've been immediately DQed for a single punch, so why not for making repeated non-consensual (at least with Kellee we have video/audio evidence it was non-consensual) contact with multiple women over the course of several weeks?What is people's issue with Survivor/CBS/the producers of the show? Is it that they didn't intervene sooner/kick Dan off?
I don't understand what they could have done instead though - she was clearly in a moment of distress and they offered to intervene, is that not the best thing they could have done in that moment? Further to that, I imagine there were other times that the question was asked of those women - namely when they were doing their 1 on 1 interviews about it - but it was just kept off-camera. I could be wrong, though.Yes. Putting the onus on the victim to demand intervention when she's in a compromised position to do so (without risking a million dollars) is gross. Dan would've been immediately DQed for a single punch, so why not for making repeated non-consensual contact with multiple women over the course of several weeks?
I tend to agree but it's hard to make the call from the outside without knowing what the women said in the one on one discussions with the producers. They've seemed to turn up or down their level of discomfort with him as to what fits the situation. (outside of kelee)Yes. Putting the onus on the victim to demand intervention when she's in a compromised position to do so (without risking a million dollars) is gross. Dan would've been immediately DQed for a single punch, so why not for making repeated non-consensual (at least with Kellee we have video/audio evidence it was non-consensual) contact with multiple women over the course of several weeks?
Good point - but Missy coaching Elisabeth to lie about it to Janet, and then still voting for Janet after all of it came out - wasn't cool to me. She at least could've said at the second tribal (her and Elisabeth) - "whether Kellee was doing the same thing or not, it was wrong to use this as a means to get further in the game" - but she just kept her mouth shut as Janet was getting roasted for absolutely no fuckin' good reason.I'd give me two cents, and I'm honestly a bit amazed that Missy is being treated so badly here.
From her point of view, she has a one on one with Kellee and she feels bonded. They have a two hour chat, they agree that Dan should be going home. Both feel uncomfortable. A bit later, she learns that Kellee's alliance is targeting her and the person asks her: "Do you feel safe", and she answers honestly "yes". So their plan changes and they are targeting Kellee who in Missy's eyes was using Dan to make her confident in their relationship.
So that's why I think, that Missy shouldn't be vilified so badly. From her perspective Kellee was playing a game, and learning people are targeting you - luring you into a false sense of security, I'd probably do the same thing.
I also felt the producers should have been far more firm with Dan, this is not something recent - from very early on Kellee told him she needs her personal space yet he continued to defy it. Like she said she couldn't blow up her game and her and Missy's conversation had really genuine moments. If circumstances were different they would have definitely worked together as Kellee said.
Good point - but Missy coaching Elisabeth to lie about it to Janet, and then still voting for Janet after all of it came out - wasn't cool to me. She at least could've said at the second tribal (her and Elisabeth) - "whether Kellee was doing the same thing or not, it was wrong to use this as a means to get further in the game" - but she just kept her mouth shut as Janet was getting roasted for absolutely no fuckin' good reason.
I totally agree with you. The players are 1) operating with limited information on (and sometimes deliberately misinforming) each other, and 2) in a position where they feel saying the wrong thing (to each each other, to the camera, or one-on-one to a producer) could cost them a million dollars. Plus, playing this game and trying to balance being who you are outside the game is always difficult. What horrible behavior would you tolerate for a million bucks? Might be different for different people. Elizabeth didn't even acknowledge it as an issue. Missy could handle it. Kellee struggled with it. And Janet couldn't take it, even vicariously. None of them should have even been put in the position to find out, but production failed them.It's production dropping the ball, allowing things to unfold and addressing them far too late.
Never missed an episode going all the way back to the beginning! (sorry, had to say it)Sure, everyone could have handled it better.
But outside of Dan, the rest are victims of circumstance. If you are a super fan of the show, you've seen people break down and cry, you've seen some totally awful behavior(Thailand being a great example), you've seen fake tears. Missy is a self admitted fan of the game. Even though she had an emotional connection with Kellee, when being told that she is the next target - she turned her emotions off and played to survive. From her perspective she knew Dan was inappropriate, yet she was the one being targeted. Tommy & Lauren specifically told Missy how dangerous Kellee was.
And Kellee was dangerous, lets not forget she had two idols.
It's production dropping the ball, allowing things to unfold and addressing them far too late.
I agree that she seems like a sociopath based on what we've seen. Yes, some compartmentalization is necessary for Survivor but playing footsie with accusations of sexual harassment then vilifying the person who turned on her ally in order to help you feel safe is fucking disturbing. She and Liz are fucking scum and deserve to be ostracized everywhere they go. Same for Dan.I saw someone on twitter say that after that episode Missy comes off as a sociopath. She is so damn cold. But she knows how to play the game, that can't be denied. This season can still be redeemed, i just really don't want to see Dan or Elizabeth in the final 3. I want to see them get voted off so bad. Time will tell.
I don't know - it's messy as hell and we'll probably all have our own way of interpreting it and thinking how it should've gone, but I do think Missy and (definitely) Elisabeth had an opportunity to air out that laundry at the second tribal but chose to stay quiet like a couple of cowards.
Janet was going outside the game (in a way) to help them (in a way that I'd argue is also outside the game), and they used that to their advantage.
I'm done with this season. Any comeuppance for Dan, victory for Janet/Karishma/Noura, or redemption for the others would ring hollow, when we never should've gotten to this point.Lets see how they handle themselves next episode and whether they actually deserve this disdain, perhaps keep an open mind before being proven right.
Awful human being, great survivor(I'd argue the most dominant winner)... how the fuck can you be in a final three with Brian Heidik and be less likable than him? The way he carried Jan, Clay and Ted to the final 5 was unparalleled - literally three people more unlikable than a sociopath. That Thailand cast was sure something..
I have to wonder how much of what's taken place in Island of the Idols impacted casting for Season 40...Awful human being, great survivor(I'd argue the most dominant winner)... how the fuck can you be in a final three with Brian Heidik and be less likable than him? The way he carried Jan, Clay and Ted to the final 5 was unparalleled - literally three people more unlikable than a sociopath. That Thailand cast was sure something..
He was amazing as a player. I can't tell if he and Kim Spradlin played on easy mode, or if they just made it look that way. Little of column A...Awful human being, great survivor(I'd argue the most dominant winner)... how the fuck can you be in a final three with Brian Heidik and be less likable than him? The way he carried Jan, Clay and Ted to the final 5 was unparalleled - literally three people more unlikable than a sociopath. That Thailand cast was sure something..
This tribal is horrible. and what aaron said was horrible. I hate this cast. Jamal is the only deserving winner right now.
I have to wonder how much of what's taken place in Island of the Idols impacted casting for Season 40...Namely the decision by CBS to not invite the likes of Richard Hatch and Brian Heidik to play in their all-winners season. Those snubs seemed odd, initially... but they make more sense given the context of Dan's unappreciated physical contact and the fallout stemming from it.
I have to wonder how much of what's taken place in Island of the Idols impacted casting for Season 40... [/spoiler]
Great point, yeah. There was a point when non-gameplay became gameplay and that wasn't good.this is another place they screwed it up. she shouldn't be made to feel like she has to use the mechanisms of the game to fix the game itself - that also breaks the game.
I actually want to ask this, as I keep seeing people stating they take issue with it:
What is people's issue with Survivor/CBS/the producers of the show? Is it that they didn't intervene sooner/kick Dan off? Is it the way the episode was edited? Do people think they should've stopped filming and said "nah that's a wrap - this is fucked" - I actually don't know. From what I can tell, they very likely asked everyone involved if they wanted to keep going (namely Kellee) and I would imagine they all said "yes".
Good summary. I would love to know how specific the "formal warning" for Dan was. I suspect it wasn't much of one at all, because he barely seemed to understand that anyone had a problem with him, even after it. "Dan, we need to formally tell you to respect people's boundaries." "Oh yeah, I totally agree. I'm proud to be from the industry that started the respecting boundaries movement! I'll definitely be on the lookout for anyone not respecting boundaries." "Great. Glad we had this talk."