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Chairman Yang

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
capsule_616x353.jpg

As President Rayne, lead the nation of Sordland in your first term of this text-based RPG. Navigate a political drama driven by conversations with your cabinet members. With looming war, rooted corruption, economic crisis and reform needed, the choices fall on your shoulders.

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Suzerain is unlike anything else I've played. You control the president of a fictional country loosely based on an amalgam of 1950s Turkey, Germany, Eastern Europe, and others. You'll deal with overcoming the legacy of your country's recent dictatorship, foreign policy with neighbours of all stripes, navigating the waters between two superpowers modeled on the US and Soviet Union, refugee crises, internal strife between reformers, radicals, and reactionaries, and much more. This'll generally be done through detailed text conversation choices with various people in government. Some are your allies, some are your enemies. You won't always know which.

Why should you be interested? A few reasons:
* The characters are generally well-written. You'll grow to love, hate, respect, or pity them. You'll constantly guess at their real intentions.
* You have lots of divergent directions you can take your country in. This isn't a linear ride to the end. You can make your country great, raise the economy and living standards, win wars against your enemies, and shake off the authoritarian past to become a thriving democracy. You can go full communist or capitalist. You can embrace corruption and work in the shadows, or stand for principle. You can screw up so badly you're impeached, assassinated, or disintegrated in a nuclear apocalypse.
* The developers have an adult's understanding of the world, and they've patterned the game after real-life events, economic trends, and political realities. Generally, the different ideologies are reasonably fleshed-out and not caricatures. The devs are clearly left-leaning but they're generally fair in their evaluation of history, with some unfortunate exceptions.
* The game isn't really a strategy game. It's extremely light on mechanics, heavy on conversational choices and consequences. This makes it easy to learn and a good game for those turned off of dense grand strategy.
* The game has a few problems. The writing quality gets a bit inconsistent later (perhaps due to dev time limitations) and the endgame feels rushed. The devs have a shaky understanding of economics and this becomes evident with that overly-abstracted side of the game. Sometimes the results of your decisions aren't nearly transparent enough (arguably this makes the game more realistic). Still, none of these are deal-breakers.

Anyways, highly recommended! Anyone here played it?
 
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DaciaJC

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,884
* The developers have an adult's understanding of the world, and they've patterned the game after real-life events, economic trends, and political realities. Generally, the different ideologies are reasonably fleshed-out and not caricatures. The devs are clearly left-leaning but they're generally fair in their evaluation of history, with some unfortunate exceptions.

My curiosity is piqued.
 

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,842
I really enjoyed my time with it even though I got ousted in a military coup. I plan on returning and not making the same mistakes so that I can see what other outcomes I can find. I love all the works this developer has done (Orwell 1 and 2) and I really love this niche they’ve carved for themselves.
 

Anoxida

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,718
I will check this out. Seems to have a great reception on Steam as well. Is it true it doesn't have manual saves though? How often does it auto save?
 
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Chairman Yang

Chairman Yang

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
My curiosity is piqued.
One example: the Stalin-equivalent who heads the Soviet Union-equivalent is portrayed as a well-intentioned, misunderstood guy who didn't seem to commit any atrocities. It's a fictional universe, so I can't get too bothered, but given the historical plausibility and verisimilitude of the rest of the game it did stick out a bit to me.
 

Scrobbles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,723
I LOVED this game. Bought it at launch and enjoyed every minute of it. It's been cool to see them add more features over time too.
 
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Chairman Yang

Chairman Yang

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
I will check this out. Seems to have a great reception on Steam as well. Is it true it doesn't have manual saves though? How often does it auto save?
I think with every interaction (each interaction has a few decisions). It's meant to be played through with accepting the consequences. As a habitual save-scummer who tries to get the "optimal" outcome, I was happy with it.
 

Comrade Grogu

Banned
Jun 20, 2020
4,090
Definitely not the case in my playthroughs. It's possible I just didn't make the choices that showed the dark side of the USSR-analog.
Oh, fair enough.

I really shouldn't judge, but I'm kinda pessimistic about these things, you see.

Frankly, I shouldn't be such a political junkie, but even when it comes to video games, I tend to take a middling view with how it approaches politics. It's not even the America-centric bias when it comes to geopolitics; just everything, even when it technically gets it right, it does it wrong. I think this is why I don't really get into "politics" in video game threads and that's because I either tend to say something that's downright weird or because I've gone through all the discussions and woes before.
 
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Chairman Yang

Chairman Yang

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
Oh, fair enough.

I really shouldn't judge, but I'm kinda pessimistic about these things, you see.

Frankly, I shouldn't be such a political junkie, but even when it comes to video games, I tend to take a middling view with how it approaches politics. It's not even the America-centric bias when it comes to geopolitics; just everything, even when it technically gets it right, it does it wrong. I think this is why I don't really get into "politics" in video game threads and that's because I either tend to say something that's downright weird or because I've gone through all the discussions and woes before.
For what it's worth, I also tend to think the vast majority of games mishandle politics badly, with this one being a rare exception. The devs are also based in Germany, and the game's set in a Europe-like area, which prevents an America-centric view.
 

Comrade Grogu

Banned
Jun 20, 2020
4,090
For what it's worth, I also tend to think the vast majority of games mishandle politics badly, with this one being a rare exception. The devs are also based in Germany, and the game's set in a Europe-like area, which prevents an America-centric view.
Fair, fair.

Nah, it's fine. I'm just ranting at this point. Does the game have a story of some sort?

Fuck it, I'll actually read the OP lol
 
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Chairman Yang

Chairman Yang

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
Fair, fair.

Nah, it's fine. I'm just ranting at this point. Does the game have a story of some sort?

Fuck it, I'll actually read the OP lol
One thing I didn't mention in the OP is that there's a personal story for your character's family running parallel with the larger political story of your presidency. They do effect each other in interesting ways...
 

Comrade Grogu

Banned
Jun 20, 2020
4,090
capsule_616x353.jpg



ss_6709263b14d2d2250a0e3591e90ee36523b42025.1920x1080.jpg


Suzerain is unlike anything else I've played. You control the president of a fictional country loosely based on an amalgam of 1950s Turkey, Germany, Eastern Europe, and others. You'll deal with overcoming the legacy of your country's recent dictatorship, foreign policy with neighbours of all stripes, navigating the waters between two superpowers modeled on the US and Soviet Union, refugee crises, internal strife between reformers, radicals, and reactionaries, and much more. This'll generally be done through detailed text conversation choices with various people in government. Some are your allies, some are your enemies. You won't always know which.

Why should you be interested? A few reasons:
* The characters are generally well-written. You'll grow to love, hate, respect, or pity them. You'll constantly guess at their real intentions.
* You have lots of divergent directions you can take your country in. This isn't a linear ride to the end. You can make your country great, raise the economy and living standards, win wars against your enemies, and shake off the authoritarian past to become a thriving democracy. You can go full communist or capitalist. You can embrace corruption and work in the shadows, or stand for principle. You can screw up so badly you're impeached, assassinated, or disintegrated in a nuclear apocalypse.
* The developers have an adult's understanding of the world, and they've patterned the game after real-life events, economic trends, and political realities. Generally, the different ideologies are reasonably fleshed-out and not caricatures. The devs are clearly left-leaning but they're generally fair in their evaluation of history, with some unfortunate exceptions.
* The game has a few problems. The writing quality gets a bit inconsistent later (perhaps due to dev time limitations) and the endgame feels rushed. The devs have a shaky understanding of economics and this becomes evident with that overly-abstracted side of the game. Sometimes the results of your decisions aren't nearly transparent enough (arguably this makes the game more realistic). Still, none of these are deal-breakers.

Anyways, highly recommended! Anyone here played it?
This part does seem interesting, ngl

I like the Turkey-analogue too.

I'm guessing this is like post-Kemalist Turkey (after Ataturk and Inonu) or perhaps a country like in the Balkans.

I think I'll bite. I'll put this on my wishlist, I think. Thanks, OP!
 

Comrade Grogu

Banned
Jun 20, 2020
4,090
One thing I didn't mention in the OP is that there's a personal story for your character's family running parallel with the larger political story of your presidency. They do effect each other in interesting ways...
That's also interesting. So this is more story-based. That's actually pretty interesting. I thought it would be more like Hearts of Iron IV, but I'm glad that it's not. Thanks again.

Sure, sure!
 

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,122
One example: the Stalin-equivalent who heads the Soviet Union-equivalent is portrayed as a well-intentioned, misunderstood guy who didn't seem to commit any atrocities. It's a fictional universe, so I can't get too bothered, but given the historical plausibility and verisimilitude of the rest of the game it did stick out a bit to me.

Tankie devs? I guess it was bound to happen.

Oh, fair enough.

I really shouldn't judge, but I'm kinda pessimistic about these things, you see.

Frankly, I shouldn't be such a political junkie, but even when it comes to video games, I tend to take a middling view with how it approaches politics. It's not even the America-centric bias when it comes to geopolitics; just everything, even when it technically gets it right, it does it wrong. I think this is why I don't really get into "politics" in video game threads and that's because I either tend to say something that's downright weird or because I've gone through all the discussions and woes before.

There's only one way games will ever get it right, get Zizek to do an Elden Ring.
 

PBalfredo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,092
I played through it and came out pretty mixed overall.

I found Suzerain too opaque on the first playthrough, and too tedious to replay. You have to rebuild the economy but can only do so with one-time opportunities that pop up randomly, have no clear alternative and unclear consequences. Hey want to do this project? Decide now or the opportunity goes away forever. Will better opportunities ever come up if you decline? Who knows! Better make a split decision right now. Because that's how politics work??? Okay, that cost you 2 Budget points. 2 points on a scale to what? Is that a lot? Unclear but guess what your stock market crashed. Enjoy your coup!

And trying to replay the game just makes you realize that 40% of the gametime is taken up by greeting each and every cabinet member at the start of every meeting.

The writing gave some interesting scenarios but the pacing is laborious and what little did lean on game mechanics were not up to snuff.
 

AIP

Member
Oct 29, 2017
101
I enjoyed my time with the game. I've been yearning another run just to try out the oppressive/corrupt route.
 
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Chairman Yang

Chairman Yang

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
I played through it and came out pretty mixed overall.

I found Suzerain too opaque on the first playthrough, and too tedious to replay. You have to rebuild the economy but can only do so with one-time opportunities that pop up randomly, have no clear alternative and unclear consequences. Hey want to do this project? Decide now or the opportunity goes away forever. Will better opportunities ever come up if you decline? Who knows! Better make a split decision right now. Because that's how politics work??? Okay, that cost you 2 Budget points. 2 points on a scale to what? Is that a lot? Unclear but guess what your stock market crashed. Enjoy your coup!

And trying to replay the game just makes you realize that 40% of the gametime is taken up by greeting each and every cabinet member at the start of every meeting.

The writing gave some interesting scenarios but the pacing is laborious and what little did lean on game mechanics were not up to snuff.
Yeah the transparency criticisms are fair, especially related to the economy (but perhaps the same could be said about the real economy?) And the greeting thing is hilariously kind of true.

That said, I thought the pacing was superb. I haven't binged this hard on a game in a long time.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,651
It's basically impossible to accurately model economic systems in video games and anything approaching such a goal would be the most convoluted mess imaginable.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,822
For anyone interested in more impressions, Three Moves Ahead did a podcast on Suzerain a few months back; that's how I originally heard about it:
www.idlethumbs.net

Three Moves Ahead: Suzerain

Episode 522. The Anton Raynes of Castamere.

Sin Vega and Rob Zacny were pretty gripped by it IIRC. It's a good listen.


I don't like the setting enough to play it personally, but hearing people's adventures in Suzerain is a lot of fun.
 

Mashing

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,159
When I hear the title I immediately think of the board game in Disco Elysium (damn you Kutsuragi!!!)
 

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,122
Would be surprised if that was the case, especially since you can do well pursuing free-market policies, for example. I think it's more a case of "wouldn't it have been awesome if the Soviet Union had a nicer leader? Things would have been so different."

That's interesting. I've always said I like socialist ideas, but I like democracy more. Will there be democracy though? Or just a nice dictator.
 

PBalfredo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,092
Yeah the transparency criticisms are fair, especially related to the economy (but perhaps the same could be said about the real economy?) And the greeting thing is hilariously kind of true.

That said, I thought the pacing was superb. I haven't binged this hard on a game in a long time.
Granted, most of my pacing gripes stem from trying to replay the game to try different decisions, only to be stuck in meeting hell. Perhaps in a more proper visual novel there would be better chapter select / fast-forward / skip to a decision point options.

I'm fine with some of the economic choices having unintended consequences, but I really needed something I could be a bit more pro-active towards. Even just a schedule showing when some decision points might be expected to come up. Like there was that event where you allocate the budget between the different departments. I would have thought that would be an annual event, but no, that was for your entire term!

Also I've played a game in more desperate need of musical variety. I have no idea if this game has 5 tracks or 50 but they're all the same echo-y listless guitar strumming. Got real tedious considering the length of the game.
 
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Chairman Yang

Chairman Yang

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
I got some steam cash, wheat are the system requirements?
Not sure how accurate the listed requirements are, but I did find this game to be more of a system hog than I expected. It worked poorly on my old MacBook Pro Retina, but no issues on my main PC.

Also, you may want to wait until the upcoming Steam sale before purchasing, just in case.
 

bes.gen

Member
Nov 24, 2017
2,869
i think devs are of turkish descent, and the fictional country even seems to have the same foundation year as modern turkey. so that might be the main inspiration.
looks interesting, will give a try
 

mercuralia

Member
Sep 30, 2020
636
Portugal
It's good for a playthrough or two, but not much more after that. It's more of a visual novel than a political sim, in that the events are entirely predetermined and it doesn't offer you much flexibility in how you manouver them. There isn't really any simulation going on, only triggers for when you make certain choices or reach a given economic/personal wealth level.
 

msboo001

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,363
I never expected this game to ever be mentioned here. Yeah its really great. Best political fiction I've ever read, in a video game! (that says more about me tbh). Loved how you feel like you actually live in that world, and not some top down immortal god leader. Music is also great!

I really wanted to do the 2nd term. I have a space program to build damn it! Show those too proud super powers that mice can roar too. Also the title drop in one of the other endings was stupidly funny, but not the funniest choice.
 

discotheque

Member
Dec 23, 2019
3,662
Exactly. That's why the USSR and various Communist dictatorships were such shit. But we know that when socialist ideas are backed by actual representative power among the people, we get much more equitable societies like we see in Scandinavian countries.
Those countries are Social Democracies, not socialist. (Although they did become that way because of socialist movements!)
 

Divvy

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,339
Bought the game cuz of this thread, looking forward to trying it out
 

Shodan14

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,410
Just came here to say that the game is unique and amazing and really made me feel immersed in the world. I don't think I've ever played a more detailed and believable game about high level politics, with very real choices and consequences. Highly recommended for anyone with an interest in history or politics. There's no pandering or dumbing it down, you're right there in the middle of it and have to make the best of often bad choices with limited information.

The ending I got also really made me sit down and think for quite a bit. Will probably go for another round at some point. Basically, I did pretty well, but I overspent and in the end my neutrality towards the two superpowers led me quickly losing the war against Rumburg and eventually getting gunned down in my office in the bombed out capital.
 
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Divvy

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,339
I'm really enjoying it. It's reminding me a lot of Papers Please, especially the fact that all my decisions come to bite me in the ass later lol. Hell, it's giving me some IRL stress from just trying to hold this country together.
 
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Chairman Yang

Chairman Yang

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,370
I'm really enjoying it. It's reminding me a lot of Papers Please, especially the fact that all my decisions come to bite me in the ass later lol. Hell, it's giving me some IRL stress from just trying to hold this country together.
Nice, glad you're enjoying it so far. Which direction are you going in so far? Authoritarian, reformist? Military, health, education?
 

Divvy

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,339
Nice, glad you're enjoying it so far. Which direction are you going in so far? Authoritarian, reformist? Military, health, education?
I WAS trying to go for a progressive reformist platform focusing on education but things are falling apart at the seams. Next playthrough I guess I'm going to have to make some deals with the devil. I am curious how many of the "plot points" are fixed.