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Tactics Ogre: Reborn releases on November 11th according to PS Deals
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
- Rumor
Read the OP. It is a remake. The script is the same as the PSP version (mostly, probably some new stuff), but the actual gameplay design and balance have been totally gutted and rebuilt.
Idk if I'll prefer that, I kind of liked the challenge inherent to improving classes as they were obtained, but it's how every other tactics game that I like works except for maybe Valkyria Chronicles so I will probably accept it
That actually looks pretty good, but hurt by being extremely zoomed in and mangled with compression. Pixel art is totally fucked by social media compression because it makes crisp pixel edges blurred. Shades of all the really stupid Pixel Remaster comparisons based on terrible comparison images a year ago that mostly shut up once people could play the games.
Looks fine at a distance. Not ideal but I think it'll look good 95% of the time.
This looks pretty good to me, so I don't agree with some of the takes on this. The detail and shading seems to be pretty well preserved/replicated on the updated sprite. Overall readability seems as good as well.
Yeah. It's gross. If it has a toggle I might grab it on sale but otherwise psp version will stay my go to. Always cool to see games trapped on old machines get a wider release tho!
I don't even think that's just raw upscaling, either. There's a ton of detail that simple scaling would totally miss out on. They did a good job. Likely something like SaGa Frontier Remastered where there's an extensive blend of scaling and manual art. The new sprites read a lot better and won't look hideous when zoomed in during battles or cutscenes.
IIRC Sakaguchi straight up said at the end of last year that Matsuno was working on something. If it's not this, it's something else.
On a side note, a quick glance at Matsuno's Twitter account indicates concerns that he's come down with some sort of illness that began this past weekend, possibly COVID or the flu. I hope he'll be okay.
Ok so I beat the game on psp, but is there something I was missing with dealing with the giant ho sponge monster enemies later? They ruined any want to replay it.
This originally appeared in the Nvidia leak, so probably not.
I would be shocked if it wasn't on switch, would be a great handheld game. Xbox is 50/50.
So - the characters don't actually look to have been "smoothed" EXCEPT for the outline.
Look inside - it's entirely pixelated, it just has more detail than the original model. The 'issue' so to speak, is the dark outline which has a sort of vector-y thing going on.
Surely it would be easy enough to have the dark outline just follow the shape of the model pixel by pixel instead? I think that would resolve most of the concerns.
I don't even know if the outline is smoothed. Looks like bad compression-- the outline is just two pixels wide, but does do diagonals at what previously would have been a sub-pixel but now is not.
I actually don't mind the new look of the units. The actually maps look way better now (Not that the psp version looked bad).
Like others have said the main issue is the slow slow speed of crafting. Only being able to craft one material at a time with that slow animation takes so damn long.
Also, I'm not sure they mentioned but I hope they tweak some unit damage. Archers are so strong in this game. It basically breaks the game when you have a few of them decked out in your squad.
Regardless if they make those changes I'll still buy the game because it's one of my favourite games ever. I hope lot's of people buy it so hopefully we can get a new game in the future.
Like others have said the main issue is the slow slow speed of crafting. Only being able to craft one material at a time with that slow animation takes so damn long.
Also, I'm not sure they mentioned but I hope they tweak some unit damage. Archers are so strong in this game. It basically breaks the game when you have a few of them decked out in your squad.
Regardless if they make those changes I'll still buy the game because it's one of my favourite games ever. I hope lot's of people buy it so hopefully we can get a new game in the future.
Yeah, it seems like it's just the outline that's throwing people off.
Looking at non-menu screenshots though, I wonder how much of this was a deliberate decision based on how they'd look compared to the environment? The sprites look like they'd be at risk of blending in with the environments without such a pronounced outline. We can analyze stills against a menu background all we want, but the sprites have to be functional during combat.
I don't know much about this game as I've never played it before, but people have said that there's a lack of a TP bar and that the HP/damage balance seen in one of the screenshots is not what they remember, so it's possible the entire combat balance may have been entirely redone. Not to mention character-based leveling instead of job-based leveling.
Those tweets arguing about the sprites above actually tell me a few other things:
1) This remaster/remake is most likely from CBU3 staff, which has a lot of former Tactics staff, not to mention their history of working with Matsuno. The new font is similar to what you'd see in FFXIV.
2) There's a conspicuous greyed out 0 in front of the level numbers that's absent in the original versions, suggesting that character levels in this remaster/remake could go past 99.
Looking at non-menu screenshots though, I wonder how much of this was a deliberate decision based on how they'd look compared to the environment? The sprites look like they'd be at risk of blending in with the environments without such a pronounced outline. We can analyze stills against a menu background all we want, but the sprites have to be functional during combat.
I don't know much about this game as I've never played it before, but people have said that there's a lack of a TP bar and that the HP/damage balance seen in one of the screenshots is not what they remember, so it's possible the entire combat balance may have been entirely redone. Not to mention character-based leveling instead of job-based leveling.
Those tweets arguing about the sprites above actually tell me a few other things:
1) This remaster/remake is most likely from CBU3 staff, which has a lot of former Tactics staff, not to mention their history of working with Matsuno. The new font is similar to what you'd see in FFXIV.
2) There's a conspicuous greyed out 0 in front of the level numbers that's absent in the original versions, suggesting that character levels in this remaster/remake could go past 99.
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To me this just looks like an AI/Algorithmic pixel upscaling filter being slapped on to the visuals. It just looks like hqx to me :/
I just went through the opening scene just to compare and the hp and damage numbers are really inflated. Denam starts with 148 Health and he hits warriors for about 20-25 dmg. So it's a huge increase. If I remember correctly the only character that can hit over 80 in the first battle is Lanselot.
Yeah, I just watched a video of someone going through the first few battles and it appears that we might be looking at everyone starting with about 2-3x the stats in the remake, at least from just that one screenshot. There's also a greyed out 0 in the HP values from that one screenshot suggesting that HP can now go into the thousands.
If I understand the Tactics Ogre character progression system correctly, not everyone can be any class like in FFT, right? The progression is closer to something like Triangle Strategy, where everyone had fixed job progression with branching paths? Because according to the new screenshots, everyone has MP now, which might suggest that class restrictions may have been lifted somewhat (and it would also make complete sense to go back to character-based leveling instead of class-based if class restrictions were actually lifted).
Although it's possible that everyone using MP now is basically because TP got axed more than anything else.
It was basically FFT where there are a pool of generic classes but uniques come with their own tricked out class but certain generic classes had gender locks (which was removed for the PSP remake and i'm certain they've kept it out for this iteration) and aside from the gender locks you had alignment and stat requirements for certain classes but aside from going out of your way for a Lich or Angel Knight I don't recall classes being super hard to change into as just like in FFT if you were ever thinking about building up a unit from scratch you'd be picky as to the Bravery and Faith of the unit, in SNES TO (and Knight of Lodis) you'd be picky about their character alignment for the element (to synergize with whatever build you wanted to do for the unit in question) and whether the unit was Lawful Chaotic or Neutral and maybe if you felt like it you'd be picky as to their starting physical or magical stats if they were going to be a fighter or a caster down the line.
Here are some comparisons
Tactics Ogre PSP naturally filters the sprites. It doesn't look bad on a small screen but it's compounded that zoomed shots made the whole screen blurrier. You can see Reborn add more details to sprites and background, so I tend to think it is redrawn
If you remove each and every form of filters that the PSP had, this is how it looks in comparison
Since we don't usually look at games this zoomed in, this is how it looks with the entire game screen
and the same thing but without the PSP filters
So everyone can get a better idea of the changes
Tactics Ogre PSP naturally filters the sprites. It doesn't look bad on a small screen but it's compounded that zoomed shots made the whole screen blurrier. You can see Reborn add more details to sprites and background, so I tend to think it is redrawn
If you remove each and every form of filters that the PSP had, this is how it looks in comparison
Since we don't usually look at games this zoomed in, this is how it looks with the entire game screen
and the same thing but without the PSP filters
So everyone can get a better idea of the changes
The first impression can be deceiving I think the developers have worked on a great solution for a 4k game ...
It definitely looks more detailed, especially in terms of shading, since what was represented by a single pixel is now displaying 4 of them. Eyes aren't just two black pixels anymore.
In the late-game, battles typically had a couple mages who could teleport and cast the stone spell. Cutting back on them would also help with the pacing.
I liked the PSP game, but one play-through was more than enough. Hopefully this edition fares better.
Funny how I viewed this post first on my phone and preferred the PSP version, but now that I view them on my monitor I think Reborn looks a lot better.
Personally I don't think the characters in Reborn look bad at all. It's only the smooth outlines that are somewhat off-putting. If they could make them a bit more jagged to emulate the original sprites, it would be perfect.
Yep, 4x the amount of pixels, twice the resolution in each axis. It's seemingly a good way to retain the feel but avoid their lack of detail. The outer edge of the black mask outline is then increased again by same order of magnitude and has 4x the amount of the new sprite's pixels as as they're anti-aliased against whatever their backgrounds.
View: https://twitter.com/PlaystationSize/status/1552244241325326336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1552244241325326336%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
Seems its already "gone gold" (In PS database standards, probably means that they pushed a 1.00 version to PSN).
Well, its a remaster, they can release it whenever really.
Still seems to be up, its an issue on your end.
Isn't the release date November 11th? Going by thread title/psdeals.net leak, at least.
Ah, that's right. Then it is probably not a shadow drop lol.
Until November there are still enough events for an announcement. PS Showcase, State of Play, Nintendo direct, tgs.
This is some great work. The sword and Warren's hair should immediately dispell the belief that this is just upscaling. There's way too much new and "correct" detail, and there's no way even great AI upscaling could infer those types of details correctly.
i mean, i think the most likely answer is its ai upscaled and then touched up by hand afterward. they look alright, but i think i agree with everyone that the black outline is making them look worse
maybe this is blasphemous, but the sprites in TO were never all that great anyway. FFT was a massive improvement in my opinion
maybe this is blasphemous, but the sprites in TO were never all that great anyway. FFT was a massive improvement in my opinion
That is basically what SaGa Frontier did, which is regarded as one of the best updates of that style. There's a lot of manual work done, like I think a ten credited artists or more for a remaster where people barely even recognize the art as new.
If they are upscaled there is a huge amount of manual work. Hands, feet, eyes, weapons are basically totally redrawn in a different style.
It matches the clay look of the Ogre Battle games, as mentioned.
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Thank you for these. The new sprites don't look as bad in these comparisons. That said, I still prefer the unfiltered PSP sprites. I love pixels. I don't think they are bad.
I know everyone's different, but they way they updated the sprites makes this unplayable for me when the PSP version is right there. I know 99% of people don't care, but I'm a stickler on this sort of thing.
I do think the rest of the updates are awesome though and more people getting a chance to play this game is only a good thing.
I do think the rest of the updates are awesome though and more people getting a chance to play this game is only a good thing.
