Adds customization and makes combat more dynamic. Building kits to synergize between your three characters and chosen items is incredibly engaging and rewarding. But admittedly that doesn't appeal to everyone.
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Take-Two CEO says Midnight Suns was a critical success, but not a commercial one
- Thread starter Wrexis
- Start date
Yep, this sounds like a deal breaker for me basically. And I like strategy games, RPGs, strategy RPGs, dialogue heavy games and Marvel.
Whatever, I am glad we got it.
Card game haters passed, and people think their idea was better, sure whatever, maybe. I find it better than some of the stuff those audience prefer which puts me to sleep personally.
Damn good game. Not everything that is good turns a profit. Oh well.
Card game haters passed, and people think their idea was better, sure whatever, maybe. I find it better than some of the stuff those audience prefer which puts me to sleep personally.
Damn good game. Not everything that is good turns a profit. Oh well.
And I think that's fair. They took a shot, made the game that they themselves and other people liked, but it wasn't for everyone.
Now, the big question is ... when is XCOM3? 😉
I will eventually buy this game, but not for more than half price. That's my fee for ignoring all the Marvel stuff.
The two things about card games that usually annoy people are a) having to build a specific deck with proper synergies etc and b) the randomness of the card draw. None of those are an issue in Midnight Suns because:
a) The "deck" of each character is very small and newer cards you get are almost always straight upgrades. They basically work like new weapons in XCOM. You can't really mess up a deck by choosing the "wrong" cards. Just as in XCOM you upgrade your characters with skills and weapons based on the role you want them to play on the battlefield, in Midnight Suns you choose cards.
b) The game's combat system is so amazingly well designed that the randomness of card draws is not a limiting factor for your strategy. The fact that you have three characters on the battlefield, each with their own skill set, means that you always have many options regardless of the draw and you can basically deal with any situation in all sorts of ways. You are never locked in to a specific way of playing or a particular rigid sequence of cards that you have to play in order to be effective or else you are screwed.
I honestly don't know how Firaxis fucking did it, what kind of behind-the-curtains wizardry they are conjuring but I put 120 hours into the game, I finished it on Heroic III (three levels above normal) and the times I felt like the draw limited my options could be counted on one hand. You have so many different ways to control the flow of the battle that the tiny handful of times the draw RNG will inconvenience will feel more like a challenge to overcome than an annoyance.
I'll say it again: I don't know how Firaxis did it but they somehow pulled off making a game that in theory has RNG as a core mechanic feel 100% fair, or at the very least much more so than XCOM. When you lose you never feel like the game screwed you over.
I'm sure we will get XCOM3. People always make it sound like these games don't sell but I've bought XCOM2 on like 4 different platforms.
I'm sure we won't have wait that much longer for it.
I don't think that the game flopped because it was a card game, everybody is an expert when something flops.
Marvel Snap and Hearthstone are pretty huge successes and have people putting money into them.
I know several people that held off on buying it after reading what a hot mess the bugs were at launch week.
Saves being corrupted, unable to finish missions, etc.
I bought it, but I'm still waiting for a patch after the bugged Deadpool release.
Saves being corrupted, unable to finish missions, etc.
I bought it, but I'm still waiting for a patch after the bugged Deadpool release.
Speak for yourself. I just was not willing to shell out the asking price they wanted, still super interested in getting it asap.
Idk what the venn diagram looks like here but I feel like if you like hard tactics games then you probably would have an interest in single player CCGs too. They both ask the same kind of questions of the player and deck management is a skill in itself so "card RNG" while does play a part would not kill interest.
They also make Civilization, which is probably their next big game.
An X-Men version makes too much sense, it'll never happen
If there's an option to skip story and get only the gameplay part, I might bite. But from what I see, it will be difficult to go over the cringe. And I know jack sh1t about Marvel.
I am speaking for myself. I played and liked a good amount of variety of strategy RPGs, tactics, squad combat, etc games.
Last card game I played and liked was Magic the Gathering physical game around circa late '90s (maybe early 2000s, been a while).
Edit: Personally I know a few people who also passed due to card stuff. Not everyone likes card mechanics.
Me apparently. I was totally unaware that I had to choose if I liked X-Com or Marvel.
I blame Greg Miller. He did a preview on it and was pretty damn down on it, definitely killed a lot of my enthusiasm. That said I might pick it up when it's under £20.
That's a shame. The abbey stuff isn't for me, but the core combat and card progression are really fun. I think a stripped down, "GBA" version of the game, where Abbey activities are just a menu and there are zero loadtimes or extended cutscenes, would be special.
I think more than enough people complained about it being a card game, I wouldn't say it wasn't partly why the game underperformed. I actually don't know that many people who are into SRPGs who also love card games.
I can say that's part of why I didn't buy it. It also seems rather story heavy, which I don't really want for an XCOM-like (which this game is not, but still...).
I can say that's part of why I didn't buy it. It also seems rather story heavy, which I don't really want for an XCOM-like (which this game is not, but still...).
Firaxis announce they're working on a Marvel game.
People assume it will be, and are excited by the prospect of, Marvel X-COM. X-Men, X-Com. It writes itself.
Firaxis deliver Fire Emblem Three Houses Episode III: C.A.R.D. Revolution and are shocked by poor sales as people do not get what they wanted or expected. The cherry-on-the-cake is calling it "Midnight Suns", a property nobody has ever heard of.
This isn't rocket science. Well, actually, it's like this product was envisaged, designed, developed and marketed in a total vacuum so maybe it is rocket science.
People assume it will be, and are excited by the prospect of, Marvel X-COM. X-Men, X-Com. It writes itself.
Firaxis deliver Fire Emblem Three Houses Episode III: C.A.R.D. Revolution and are shocked by poor sales as people do not get what they wanted or expected. The cherry-on-the-cake is calling it "Midnight Suns", a property nobody has ever heard of.
This isn't rocket science. Well, actually, it's like this product was envisaged, designed, developed and marketed in a total vacuum so maybe it is rocket science.
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Im Curious if the answer to new Marvel games that aren't spider-man not catching on is to let an EA studio take a pass. Their stuff isn't without criticism but at least their Star Wars stuff sells.
Eh strategy games are not some super niche genre anymore. Especially Firaxis strategy games.
The good word of mouth got me through the door, but the card system and the marvel trappings quickly ushered me back out. It seems like maybe it's just a very niche product that doesn't wholly satisfy either audience (Marvel fans / Firaxis fans). Either that or the sales expectations tagged on this were too high based on it being a Marvel thing.
I watched my buddy who was raving about this play on PS Share a couple of nights and despite him singing it's praises from the characters to the gameplay design - it was just not my cup of tea. X-Com scratches a very specific itch once every few years and including the card mechanics in this was too much for me to bite. Something about it was just nooooot grabbing me at all.
I also watched him do basically a whole round of turns with just one dude cause his cards were stacked and it felt so wrong to see people just standing doing nothing for a whole round lol - the card game feel saturates every little piece of it. If that's what you're into like MtG x Xcom x Marvel? Probably loved it. But that's a small slice of pie...
I also watched him do basically a whole round of turns with just one dude cause his cards were stacked and it felt so wrong to see people just standing doing nothing for a whole round lol - the card game feel saturates every little piece of it. If that's what you're into like MtG x Xcom x Marvel? Probably loved it. But that's a small slice of pie...
I'm a huge fan of XCOM and card games but the Marvel branding and the writing kind of turned me off. Most importantly, I just had too much stuff to play to bother paying full price for this game. More than willing to wait for a deep sale.
I'm very interested, but I've got other games right now (and an overabundance of SRPGs), so I'm waiting for all the DLC or a huge sale before I bite. I saw it on sale on GMG for $32 for the game and like $53 for the game+DLC (it's not anymore), and almost jumped, but figured it'll get down that low again eventually.
Yeah it's funny to see complaints about card RNG when I genuinely felt like Midnight suns was better for RNG than X-Com 2. At the start of a turn in MS you can guarantee what the turn will look like by the end since most of the RNG is getting the card and even then decks are really small. There is some characters that are more random based but you just don't have to use them. Where as that was definitely not true in X-Com where sometimes you will get a 80%+ chance hit miss that kills your plan.
Not really a surprise, the very quick and pretty big discount was only the last hint, that this didn't do too well. Marvel fans expected some action and not "card game strategy", it was priced very highly, it turned parts of the XCOM audience off (no xcom 3, card based, etc.). It had and has technical issues, the pacing is weird to put it nicely and it partially doesn't really look good for what it is. Don't get me wrong, I bought it during a sale and finished it, but I still think that XCOM 1+2 are far superior and some parts of Midnight Suns aren't just good. Also the fact that you have a season pass with full price announced directly didn't help I guess. During sale (GMG) the price was fine for what I got, aside frome the mentioned issues, but I would have still preferred XCOM 3 over this and we might not end up getting it at all, was Midnight Suns didn't do well (enough).
I don't think the time of the release was the biggest issue, a lot of people had doubts (to put it midly) in advance, I was basically only curious as it is from the devs of XCOM 1+2, but the card game and some other things put me off, until it was on sale and I won't buy the season pass until everything in it was released and that one is on sale as well.
I don't think the time of the release was the biggest issue, a lot of people had doubts (to put it midly) in advance, I was basically only curious as it is from the devs of XCOM 1+2, but the card game and some other things put me off, until it was on sale and I won't buy the season pass until everything in it was released and that one is on sale as well.
Exactly! In XCOM you can play well and still get screwed by the RNG. That almost never happens in Midnight Suns.
FWIW, and I understand this doesn't make much intellectual sense, but even if XCOM technically has more RNG I still prefer that combat system because I feel like I'm in control and can plan long term. Yeah the plan is going to go to hell because someone will miss an 85% shot and then get crit through full cover or something, but at least I had every option available to me, I decided what to do and it didn't work. I didn't have to hope for card X to come up and it just doesn't for three turns or whatever. It's all RNG but the presentation is important.
Great game, bought it on launch day and don't regret it one bit.
Best RPG combat in years, imo.
Hope it gets a big expansion after the character dlc.
Best RPG combat in years, imo.
Hope it gets a big expansion after the character dlc.
Unfortunate. I really enjoyed my time with the game but it definitely was a hard sell with the card system and some graphical/glitch issues. Oh well, it was a pleasant surprise and I'm glad I gave it a chance as I normally despise deck-builders or any card games in general.
I'm into a NG+ playthrough and I don't think Ive ever had this experience in Midnight Suns. I really think its a stroke of game design brilliance thats its always about how can I manipulate my cards, the environment and the objective to maximize this turn. It really doesn't feel like a slay the spire where you might have a lynchpin card that if you never pull you are just never going to win a match. I've never even lost a match in Midnights after a full playthrough on heroic II without a bug being involved.
Yes, Civ and XCOM are big now. Neither is a card game with social sim element. Hell, I would t have minded the latter too much, but the former kills it.
I don't think you can expect people to expect that, though.
Also, combined with saying you've never lost a fight just makes me think it's not very difficult, or at least is solvable in a way that I don't think a lot of XCOM fans want their game to be. And I think that's fine for the super hero fantasy, mind you. I get why they'd go for that.
Every general thread on this game falls back to the card debate. But these other non spiderman marvel games didnt sell that well either. So is the cards really the problem?
I think it has enough word of mouth that the first time it gets a decent steam sale it'll continue to move significantly. It was just too much of an oddball of genres for many people to go in blind at full price.
That's a shame. Game was very fun even if the graphics and story weren't the best. Ended up #2 on my GOTY list.
Also, the guy that did the voicework for Tony Stark in Midnight Suns should be his official video game voice going forward. He was great.
Also, the guy that did the voicework for Tony Stark in Midnight Suns should be his official video game voice going forward. He was great.
Huh? Marvel is huge. What would preclude Civ and X-COM players from liking Marvel?