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Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
This has long been widely believed, but here is Take-Two (Rockstar/2K) explicitly saying it.

Worosz makes it clear that, when he talks about these projects having "smaller budgets", that is relative to the size of the budgets that Take-Two's other labels, 2K and Rockstar, normally deal with. Private Division was founded on the connected beliefs that some ideas require a substantial investment to be fully realised, and that the swelling budgets in AAA development are leaving some ideas behind - whether that's down to gameplay hours, riskier subject matter, or an absence of multiplayer modes.

"With the investment risk for video games now easily eclipsing $100 million in development spend, it's really hard to break new IP," he says. "You're taking a new risk every time you try to bring IP to the market, and that's a big cheque to write for something that is as yet unproven.
Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...-wants-to-empower-a-new-breed-of-indie-studio
 

Trago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,605
I know nothing will stop the publishers from aiming higher with AAA, but it's good that they're establishing another division for smaller titles. Speaking of which, is there a thread for that yet?
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
Well GTA4 broke a hundred million, right? And that was like a decade ago, so yeah, there's no 'believing', it's been an established fact for a long time.
 

Ryo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,523
I think GTA V took $250 million to make but it's probably more like 300 now with the added content and move to next gen consoles.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,238
Games are bigger than ever and all that innovation doesn't come for free. We all want prettier and bigger games, the point is if we are ready to pay for it.

That being said, corporate greed has no limits :p but thats a side effect of gaming becoming mainstream.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,990
Well yeah, risk is part of the equation. If you dont take any risks, how are you supposed to grow? Take two has hugely popular franchises already so they are in a position to take several of those risks.
 

wasistdustin

Senior Editor at PlayMassive
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
62
Berlin
No new IP means BioShock 4?

b36.png
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
Well GTA4 broke a hundred million, right? And that was like a decade ago, so yeah, there's no 'believing', it's been an established fact for a long time.

GTA V was more than $250m and it was a last gen game.

Horizon was the first game that came to mind. Guerrilla made a fantastic game and it didn't come close to 100M in development.

As amazing as Horizon is, it isn't remotely comparable to Rockstar's quality and depth. Rockstar's games are insanely expensive but justifiably so. They don't waste the budget on Hollywood celebrities or such pointless stuff. They make games and build lively worlds that last decades without being dethroned.
 
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Derrick01

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,289
That's loads of money.

On the other hand Horizon was around 50M.

and it showed in parts.

I mean it was a good game and looked great but if you pay attention you can spot all the issues it had that a game of its caliber probably shouldn't have. The facial animation/lip sync, the unbelievably bad water system and if you paid enough attention you could see some unintended results of the unique procedural system they used for the land. Things that didn't seem like they should be there but because it was somewhat random it got placed there (also silly things like racoons and rats running under bodies of water as if nothing was happening).

Now it's not some euro jank low budget RPG but you can start to get the picture why it cost $50 mil and not 100+. I'm not even saying it's a bad thing as I think we do need to find ways to reduce the cost in AAA games.
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
Does that $100 million includes marketing campaign or just pure, straight development?

Because it must represent a lot of money to be on every Facebook, Youtube and TV ads.
 

Zukkoyaki

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,286
It kind of feels like we almost need a AAAA category for these western mega blockbusters because we've seen a number of AAA games that don't cost anywhere near $100 million like Horizon and Breath of the Wild.
 

i-hate-u

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,374
You could fund like 10 AAA games during the PS2 ERA with that money. Ahh the simpler days.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,438
That's loads of money.

On the other hand Horizon was around 50M.

Horizon is a first party title from a studio that is based in Amsterdam. Also first party numbers seem way off compared to third party AAA developers/publishers . When all the big AAA publishers keep mentioning similar development figures it makes me question Sony's numbers. Either they have the best managed teams in the business, their folks are underpaid, which as far as we know is not the case, or they are calculating their expenses differently.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,731
USA
Stop making massive open world games then. Hellblade was made with pocket lint and gum and it was one of the best games of the year.
 

Zukkoyaki

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,286
First party developed games tend to not have the 500-1000+ person teams that work on stuff like Red Dead, GTA, Assassin's Creed, Destiny, etc. Sure they contract some stuff out but they don't throw absurd manpower at games which tends to get diminishing returns at a certain point anyway.

These bloated teams are the major driver for high development costs.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
Horizon is a first party title from a studio that is based in Amsterdam. Also first party numbers seem way off compared to third party AAA developers/publishers . When all the big AAA publishers keep mentioning similar development figures it makes me question Sony's numbers. Either they have the best managed teams in the business, their folks are underpaid, which as far as we know is not the case, or they are calculating their expenses differently.

Do we know how much it took to make Uncharted 4? Naughty Dog seem to have unlimited budget! I'm curious to know how much Sony allocates to them.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
Surely they are mostly just referring to their games. I doubt most games cost $100 million to develop.
 

Dash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
385
As amazing as Horizon is, it isn't remotely comparable to Rockstar's quality and depth. Rockstar's games are insanely expensive but justifiably so. They don't waste the budget on Hollywood celebrities or such pointless stuff. They make games and build lively worlds that last decades without being dethroned.

Eh? There's more polish, variety and things to do in Horizon than, bar San Andreas which was PS2 gen, any game Rockstar have put out recently (and that is coming from someone who loves RDR).
 

freakybj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,428
The key takeaway for me is that new (possibly better) game ideas are being left behind because companies are afraid to invest in them. What a shame. I think a similar thing is happening in the movie industry which is why most new movies you see being released are sequels, remakes, or Marvel/DC superhero movies. I can't remember a time before now when I was completely uninterested in going to see a movie at the theater because it's just the same old trite. There's just so much I could watch at home on TV or on streaming services like Netflix. If AAA pubs don't figure out how to keep experimenting with new ideas under a more manageable budget, the same dearth of creativity will happen to them.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
We don't know, but ND is located in Santa Monica, an expensive location in the US, so maybe U4 costed a lot of million if we count marketing as well.

Yeah, I've been there. Everything screams high budget at their studio. I hope they're making more than enough money for Sony to keep them up and running.
 

Dash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
385
Personally, I want to see the AA space open up. What Ninja Theory did with Hellblade is an example.

I'm quite happy with more indie or smaller budget games taking risks. Outside of first-party studios, I rarely expect anyone in the AAA space to do so any more.
 

Dash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
385
No. I'm mostly single-player.

I take that it's plenty fleshed out at this stage if you're into multiplayer?
 

Ryo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,523
Eh? There's more polish, variety and things to do in Horizon than, bar San Andreas which was PS2 gen, any game Rockstar have put out recently (and that is coming from someone who loves RDR).
GTA V has a far bigger map, a massive online component, character creation with 100s of clothing options, vehicles such as rocket bikes, jetpacks, fighter jets, submarines, cars, etc. (many of which are heavily customizable), a huge range of weapons (which again are heavily customizable), a first person mode, house/business ownership, a tonne of highly polished minigames like tennis and golf for example and the control of everything is serviceable at worst.

What does Horizon have other than a beautiful but empty world, well animated robot enemies and janky melee combat? Maybe the story hits the mark a bit better than GTA V's but the mission design is far more varied in GTA V.
 

Damn Silly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,194
Simultaneously not surprising and yet mind-boggling.

Hope this Private Division label really works out.