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Zhengi

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,900
If Trump being in charge makes you think government control of speech is a good idea you're not thinking very hard.

I don't know, because I have been on the side of hateful speech my whole life. Is it really better for me to be hated on for that long and see the same things happening to my kids just because of my race?

I guess honestly, I am just tired and feel defeated.
 

uzipukki

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
I used to believe in freedom of speech for hateful language. My high school teacher said that if we don't suppress the freedom of speech of hate groups like the KKK, they would be toothless and powerless in this society.

Now that I am older, I see what Trump has done and all the hateful rhetoric from white supremacists, I'm not certain that giving hate speech equal time and consideration is a good thing.
Wow.
 

Anton Sugar

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,946
Okay, point is, China's terrible, but I want people to step back and carefully consider if it might be a bit presumptuous to praise QT as some sort of China-defying messiah by not censoring his racially problematic film. That's it. Fucking carry on. I'll be in the anti-Asian bias thread. Fuck you guys are an emotional drain.
This is good.
I don't think anyone was giving Tarantino any praise other than the fact he wouldn't bow down to Chinese censorship.

It's entirely possibly to think that Tarantino makes films that are racially problematic but also think that the real bad guy isn't the one making a racially problematic film.
There are plenty of posts in this thread that are congratulating him partially by "acknowledging" that there is no controversy to begin with. This movie, and a lot of QT films in general, have a contingent of fans who think "well, it didn't offend me, so you shouldn't be offended either".
 

SweetNicole

The Old Guard
Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,542
I am a (multiple-) minority who has made several threads on this very site about problematic media representation of marginalized groups. I have never in my life advocated for government censorship of media. And yes, what you are describing is LITERALLY censorship, in the dictionary definition of the word. It is not a "boycott," it is not "deplatforming," it is literally asking an authoritarian government to block the release of a piece of media because it's bad.

Use your head for a second. In your utopia where all art has been purged of thoughtcrime, what happens when the bad guys eventually take back power? What happens when Trump gets to decide what art is censored? Oh wait, of course. You didn't consider that, because in your utopia the bad guys will never retake power. Because the only way you create a utopia where the bad guys never have a chance of retaking power is to create an autocratic dictatorship where free elections do not exist and free thought is not allowed. The bad guys don't exist because they're all dead or in prison -- we never need to worry about what happens when they retake the government and start censoring art their way.

You are a shitty parody of a leftist. Poor media representation of minorities is bad. Autocratic fascist dictatorships are a crime against humanity.

Great post, and this doesn't even go into the fact that that the comparison they're making is about the past genocide of Native Americans in the US vs the active genocide taking place in China.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
I don't know, because I have been on the side of hateful speech my whole life. Is it really better for me to be hated on for that long and see the same things happening to my kids just because of my race?

I guess honestly, I am just tired and feel defeated.

Then pursue a real solution. Handing the power to censor speech to a government is always a terrible idea and good intentions when doing so won't change that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,421
Yes if it depicts something hateful.

Do you support minorities who are fighting against underlying racist rhetoric and depictions in media?

Sometimes, it feels like fighting for good representation of minorities is equated to censorship. It must be so good for people to be so privileged in society to enjoy media that doesn't suppress them that calls for better representation can equal censorship. I wonder what that's like.



My "Good going China" is more of an anti-sentiment to Tarantino. I don't support what China has done to people. That's like saying if anyone congratulates the US on anything is supporting the genocide of Native Americans. That's not the case. You can separate the two things, right?

Chinese American here, I would characterize Once Upon a Time's issue as slightly problematic, not hateful. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion but you gotta you know, watch the damn movie first

And as pointed out above, you're supporting a specific bureau of Chinese government that is EXTREMELY problematic.
 

Retsudo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,077
I used to believe in freedom of speech for hateful language. My high school teacher said that if we don't suppress the freedom of speech of hate groups like the KKK, they would be toothless and powerless in this society.

Now that I am older, I see what Trump has done and all the hateful rhetoric from white supremacists, I'm not certain that giving hate speech equal time and consideration is a good thing.

Having freedom of speech doesnt mean other people aren't able to criticize the person that uses that right.

Censorship is never good. My parents lived through a dictatorship when they were young, and being conditioned by the government on what you can say, read, watch, etc is a fucking nightmare. And i wont even get into other more nefarious shit, dictatorial regimes do to their population.

Id much rather have to deal with bullshit from a group of people, than having a government actively silence everyone that doesnt play along.
 

Zhengi

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,900
Then pursue a real solution. Handing the power to censor speech to a government is always a terrible idea and good intentions when doing so won't change that.

What's a real solution though? Media is one of those things that quite a few powerful organizations and individuals have control of. I will try to raise my kid to be better though and that's the only thing I can do for him.

Anyway, now that I am a bit more clear headed, yeah, censorship is definitely not the answer. I apologize for that.

I still won't applaud Tarantino though for his stance and his movie. Frankly, I am done with him.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,151
referring to fascist government censorship and suppression as "deplatforming" ...


Chris-Schauble-Shocked-Reaction-to-LA-Earthquake.gif
 

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
3,859
Chicago, IL
Okay, point is, China's terrible, but I want people to step back and carefully consider if it might be a bit presumptuous to praise QT as some sort of China-defying messiah by not censoring his racially problematic film. That's it. Fucking carry on. I'll be in the anti-Asian bias thread. Fuck you guys are an emotional drain.

Exactly this. All the "Fuck Bruce Lee" posts is why we have the anti-asian bias thread. Some people are just so transparent with their racist bullshit.

All you faux keyboard human right activist can go fuck yourself. We see you clear.
 

teacup

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
686
I've said it before but it's so depressing how well China has framed criticism of Chinese policy as racism against China. Even in this thread you have people supporting it because in a movie which has a lot of made up elements to it it has one seen showing one Asian man as arrogant (ignoring another scene with Sharon Tate where he is being pleasant and nice also!) is now "racist"

just ridiculous.
 

Deleted member 49319

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 4, 2018
3,672
Your daily EtcetEra China thread with bunch of Fuck China train fucking riders
Seriously, what are some of you fucking Bruce Lee for here.
 

Agnostic

Member
Mar 4, 2019
724
I'm not a fan of a government censoring any form of art. That is my hot take and am willing to die on this hill.
 

Zhengi

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,900
I've said it before but it's so depressing how well China has framed criticism of Chinese policy as racism against China. Even in this thread you have people supporting it because in a movie which has a lot of made up elements to it it has one seen showing one Asian man as arrogant (ignoring another scene with Sharon Tate where he is being pleasant and nice also!) is now "racist"

just ridiculous.

Have you considered that people who are actually affected by this portrayal actually do have a point and that perhaps it's people who want to shit on China are dismissing minority concerns just to say "Fuck China"?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,055
Why we hating on Bruce Lee? Bruce Lee was a HKonger. He wouldn't want this shit censored even if it depicted him in an undesirable light.
 

Venatio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,741
Have you considered that people who are actually affected by this portrayal actually do have a point and that perhaps it's people who want to shit on China are dismissing minority concerns just to say "Fuck China"?

Censorship is not the answer. Don't see the movie (I know you haven't), and feel free to call it out from the highest mountain, but don't support censorship.
 

Krauser Kat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,701
What's more problematic saying Chuck Norris or any other kung Fu appropriating white dude jobbing in a movie or Bruce Lee. The former means Bruce Lee shouldn't be regarded as the greatest martial arts of that movie era and the later is some how racist for him to lose any fight to a White person.

All of which is fucking fiction.

This is the hill you wanna die on to get better representation for Asians in movies?
 

MalcomFleX

Alt account
Banned
Sep 9, 2019
593
Have you considered that people who are actually affected by this portrayal actually do have a point and that perhaps it's people who want to shit on China are dismissing minority concerns just to say "Fuck China"?
You're worried about a country currently committing genocide? How fucking brave of you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,421
Exactly this. All the "Fuck Bruce Lee" posts is why we have the anti-asian bias thread. Some people are just so transparent with their racist bullshit.

All you faux keyboard human right activist can go fuck yourself. We see you clear.
Where the Fuck Bruce Lee posts at?

Edit: I found it, this shit is messed up. WTF is your problem with Bruce Lee?
Fuck Bruce Lee.

And Fuck The CCP.

And watch the movie, it's good.
 

Zhengi

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,900
Censorship is not the answer. Don't see the movie (I know you haven't), and feel free to call it out from the highest mountain, but don't support censorship.

Thanks, I will. Yeah, just got tired of all the BS and just let my mind wander towards censorship being a good thing. I know it is definitely not good.

You're worried about a country currently committing genocide? How fucking brave of you.

I am worried about a country that has not traditionally been kind to minorities at all and has continued to suppress them in different ways. I wouldn't say I am brave at all, but I will continue to call out things that have an affect on us here.
 

tiebreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,148
Have you considered that people who are actually affected by this portrayal actually do have a point and that perhaps it's people who want to shit on China are dismissing minority concerns just to say "Fuck China"?

Seriously, everytime there is racism issue, people always say to listen and respect the ones that are affected.

But because asians, it just got handwaved.

That said, because of the current sentiment on China, this thread isn't the best place to bring this up.
 

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the fight in that movie loosely based off a real interaction with Bruce fighting stuntman Gene LeBell?

According to LeBell, Lee was a working stiff on the set of The Green Hornet but was kicking the shit out of the stuntmen. They couldn't convince him that he could go easy and it would still look great on film. The show's stunt coordinator, Bennie Dobbins, needed a ringer to deal with Lee, so he called in Judo Gene.

LeBell says when he got to the set, Dobbins told him to put Lee "in a headlock or something."

So LeBell went up and grabbed Lee. "He started making all those noises that he became famous for," LeBell said, "but he didn't try to counter me, so I think he was more surprised than anything else."

Then LeBell lifted Lee onto his back in what's called a fireman's carry and ran around the set with him.

"Put me down or I'll kill you!" Lee screamed.

"I can't put you down or you'll kill me," LeBell said, holding Lee there as long as he dared before putting him down, saying, "Hey, Bruce, don't kill me. Just kidding, champ."

Back on his feet again, Lee didn't kill LeBell. Instead, Lee recognized that the lack of grappling was a deficiency in the Jeet Kune Do style of martial arts he was developing. So Lee trained with LeBell for a little over a year with LeBell showing Lee armbars, leg locks and takedowns, and Lee schooling LeBell in kung fu kicks.

After training with LeBell, Lee incorporated grappling moves into his film fighting. He finishes off Chuck Norris with a chokehold in Way of the Dragon (1972) and beats a young Sammo Hung with an armbar in Enter the Dragon (1973).
 

electricblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,991
Bruce Lee gave as good as he got. I see no problem with it, it's not like the rest of the movie is exactly historical
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
There's a third option here, you all realize.

Both sides involved in this matter really suck, for different reasons.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
This is one of those "let them fight" bits because the treatment of Lee is gross and also China is an imperialist hellhole
 

teacup

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
686
Have you considered that people who are actually affected by this portrayal actually do have a point and that perhaps it's people who want to shit on China are dismissing minority concerns just to say "Fuck China"?

I mean if you want to say that because one dude was (debatably) fine dirty in a film then it justifies China's tactic of any criticism = racism then I dunno what to tell you dude
 

Salty Rice

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,612
Pancake City
Bruce Lee gave as good as he got. I see no problem with it, it's not like the rest of the movie is exactly historical
Exactly. The title of the movie literally tells you its a fairy tale that isnt historical accurate.

Bruce Lee is one of my idols but being mad about a different betrayal and him losing against a fictional character is just silly to me.

Like would there have been a controversy if Superman would have beaten Ali in the comics.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Good, the movie's brilliant as it is.

Wow at Shannon Lee being so petty as to tattle to China's National Film Administration. I'm glad the movie is too high profile to be ruined by that abject move.