Taylor Swift can't perform her own songs at the AMAs because she doesn't own them

[Carthago Delenda Est]

You need to re-read what I said.

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I know we're mostly on the same page. But even what you said is too much. Swift can't only just pay them back and call it even. There was opportunity cost as that money could have been paid somewhere else on someone else to make money.

Minors can already back out of contracts. Once they hit about 18, they're generally locked in and that's not unfair. I don't think the law needs to change.

 

[o Tesseract]

Some really shocking responses in this thread when you consider how your typical Apple thread goes.

The reality is, none of us know the truth, but the part of the truth that's out there is that it seems like Taylor could only get the chance to get her own songs in her name if she agreed to work for and make money for her old record label for 10 years.

That's a significant amount of time and people need not forget just how much of a cut record labels take. And if you think the amount spent for recording/touring equipment/staff is anywhere near the net profit the record label has made through Taylor, you're fucking stupid.

 

[Quacktion]

The music industry is fucked, what else is new? Pretty sad state of affairs.

 

[BAD]

Big machine statement (which seems to avoid some info)

https://www.bigmachinelabelgroup.co...ked-see-her-tumblr-statements-yesterday-based

 

[xclk07]

Contract law supersedes copyright law. Is their a copy of this contract?

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Indeed. I'd love to see a copy of the contract because right now this seems to be foolish shit slinging on both sides with no real core understanding. Does not make a lot of sense.

 

[shinken]

Big machine statement (which seems to avoid some info)

https://www.bigmachinelabelgroup.co...ked-see-her-tumblr-statements-yesterday-based

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At no point did we say Taylor could not perform on the AMAs or block her Netflix special. In fact, we do not have the right to keep her from performing live anywhere.

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Yep, Taylor didn't say she wasn't allowed to perform live, but that she wasn't allowed to sing her old songs during said performance or making a documentary.
How can you put out a statement, but avoid such critical information... :/

 

[Kibbles]

Yep, Taylor didn't say she wasn't allowed to perform live, but that she wasn't allowed to sing her old songs during said performance or making a documentary.
How can you put out a statement, but avoid such critical information... :/

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lmao their statement is such bullshit

 

[Sly Chimera]

Indeed. I'd love to see a copy of the contract because right now this seems to be foolish shit slinging on both sides with no real core understanding. Does not make a lot of sense.

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Yeah. It def sounds crazy either way

 

[HotHamBoy]

Taylor Swift's reported net worth is $360 million which is an empire she built off those songs she sold.

Forgive me if I have trouble mustering up a tear.

 

[Sweeney Swift]

My post cut off some due to tweet embed limits, and I wasn't able to notice until I got back. Like I'm ever going to let anybody or anything silence me or the truth. here's part 2 ❤ 🏳️‍🌈

 

[Deleted member 29660]

That's rough buddy.

 

[Vector]

Yep, Taylor didn't say she wasn't allowed to perform live, but that she wasn't allowed to sing her old songs during said performance or making a documentary.
How can you put out a statement, but avoid such critical information... :/

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They are trying to muddy the waters.

Taylor: "they wouldn't allow me to perform my old songs"
BM: "we never forbade Taylor from performing at the AMAs"

Taylor: "they wouldn't let me use my old music in my documentary"
BM: "we never forbade Taylor from making her documentary"

That entire thing reads like an attempt to strawman Taylor's stance and make her seen unreasonable.

 

[darz1]

Industry rule #4080

 

[H.Cornerstone]

Question, what would happen if she just went ahead and performed the songs anyways? Would it be anything more than fines?

 

[Vector]

Taylor was being 100% truthful

Turns out BM actually owes her $7.9m in unpaid royalties

 

[Deleted member 48897]

You mean the record industry would lie?!?!?!?!?!?! Next y'all will be telling me today ends in y. Now that's far-fetched.

 

[S I C K O]

i thought her dad was in the record industry

why she sign such a terrible contract?

 

[Kibbles]

^No, her dad works for Merril lynch

Taylor was being 100% truthful

Turns out BM actually owes her $7.9m in unpaid royalties

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Boom. What a bunch of assholes that keep lying

 

[Deleted member 48897]

i thought her dad was in the record industry

why she sign such a terrible contract?

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Saw a post upthread saying he worked for Merrill Lynch and since when has private equity ever been concerned with the long term?

 

[krazen]

i thought her dad was in the record industry

why she sign such a terrible contract?

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They had a good relationship with the original owners up until this sale.

Its less about the dad slipping, more about how the industry is FUCKED up even if you know what you are doing

 

[BAD]

Taylor was being 100% truthful

Turns out BM actually owes her $7.9m in unpaid royalties

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So they lied as Taylor's publicist pointed out

 

[Sweeney Swift]

Taylor was being 100% truthful

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Was never in doubt. Periodt

 

[Deleted member 5853]

Look at Frank Ocean - Blonde was a huge record but it had absolutely zero marketing, distribution, no big tour - etc. behind it - because it was an album he put out himself after his contract was up.

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Your larger point is valid, but don't use Frank as the example for this. He doesn't tour because he doesn't want to. Him and his team did handle things like distribution and marketing, it just wasn't the kind of marketing stars like T-Swift, Beyonce, et al. get: the kind where your face is on every screen in Times Square, every ad on Pitchfork, etc.

If you want a better example of the hardships of music, it's this:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/how-indie-artists-actually-make-money-in-2019.html

I do disagree with your view on Taylor's struggle, mostly because the root of your argument is also pretty unjust. Folks like Michael Jackson, the Beatles, Prince, et al. should not have had to fight as hard they did for ownership of their music. If whatever Taylor's doing now means the next legend in the making doesn't have to deal with this kind of shit, then more power to her.

 

[Vector]

AOC weighed in on this

Private equity groups' predatory practices actively hurt millions of Americans.

Their leveraged buyouts have destroyed the lives of retail workers across the country, scrapping 1+ million jobs. Now they're holding @taylorswift13's own music hostage.

They need to be reigned in.

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[MrNewVegas]

I thought Swift made a power play where she bought the company or something like a year ago.

 

[VeePs]

Verge posted an article about this

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14...-doxxed-scooter-braun-scott-borchetta-twitter

Swift asked her gigantic army of fans to get in touch with music industry talent manager Scooter Braun and former label boss Scott Borchetta to "let them know how you feel" about their attempts to keep her from performing her old hits on TV or using them in an upcoming Netflix documentary.
That request, of course, would require Taylor's fans to know how to get in touch. So fans promptly began doxxing the pair, publishing what appear to be Braun and Borchetta's private contact information — including phone numbers and a physical home address — on Twitter.

 

[Soda]

Verge posted an article about this

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14...-doxxed-scooter-braun-scott-borchetta-twitter

Swift asked her gigantic army of fans to get in touch with music industry talent manager Scooter Braun and former label boss Scott Borchetta to "let them know how you feel" about their attempts to keep her from performing her old hits on TV or using them in an upcoming Netflix documentary.
That request, of course, would require Taylor's fans to know how to get in touch. So fans promptly began doxxing the pair, publishing what appear to be Braun and Borchetta's private contact information — including phone numbers and a physical home address — on Twitter.

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Honestly, I had this thought immediately after reading her post a few minutes after it went up. Also concern people would harass other unrelated people that share similar names. I like Taylor Swift, but this was a wreckless way to try and resolve her issues. The last thing I want is celebrities normalizing the weaponization of their fanbases.

 

[BaNDaMaN]

Maybe I don't understand the music biz, but if you owned these songs, wouldn't you want a high profile performance out there to sell more of the music?

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That would seem logical ... but none of this sounds logical.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

Ummmmmmmmmmm....she signed the contract?

Posting on twitter about "not knowing what to do" is some fake naivety bullshit. That's how the music industry works, and she definitely knows that - and if she didn't, her management and lawyer did a piss poor job.

This is nothing new. She traded the rights to her songs for fame, simple as that. This is why you see more and more artists staying or going independent vs getting that major limelight - they don't consider it worth it. Taylor did, and now she's paying the price. Zero sympathy.

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Thinking this only happens multi millionaires you are jealous of is some very amusing naivety

 

[LordDraven]

She's full of BS.

She sold her music. Period. That's what happens when you sell things. The other party can do what it wants with it.

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This

 

[MilkBeard]

It's hilarious that people still don't know know exploitative music contracts are for new artists. Like how is this not widely known at this point?

The amount of hate she gets is puzzling.

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Yeah. It's bad. Not just with music too.

This sparked a conversation with someone I'm following who used to write for a certain company. Now, there is the issue that, yeah, you shouldn't sign into bad deals, but people make mistakes when they are broke and need money, or are young. This also happened to her. She doesn't make any royalties on the books she wrote at that time because of it.

I don't think it's good to talk shit about people who got suckered into these deals. Even if the person is a big star, like Taylor Swift. Better to talk about how to prevent these people from scamming artists and creators who are in need of money, or to make people more informed so they can avoid these shitty deals.

 

[Rosebud]

Scooter... yikes

 

[Mutedpenguin]

Is she recording the live performances as well? Otherwise I don't see a point in including that part on the deal

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Her old label are claiming that her singing on tv classifies as a recording (they also banned her from singing her old songs for her televised/streaming concert in China for the same reason).

Looking at various stories from a legal standpoint...technically, it could be seen that way...

...but it's not something that's ever usually enforced as performing old songs on tv would be mutually beneficial, as all parties will make money.


The reason Big Machine are banning her, is clearly as a strong arm tactic to try and force her into signing a contract to agree to not re-record her albums next year (when she is legally allowed to). Same with them refusing the rights for Netflix to use old footage. It's all about trying to pressure her into not re-recording.

It would be smart move... if Swift was likely to give in to their demands...

..but if they think she's going to do that, they haven't been paying attention.

 

[KillingJoke]

Obviously this isn't her fault but this is literally no different they any artist that's been fucked over. Which is like 99.8% of them.

Of course they are going to strong arm her because her masters value will drop like a rock once she re-releases her work. Why the hell couldn't she wait until next year or whenever to do this AMA/Netflix stuff?

 

[Sweeney Swift]

AOC weighed in on this

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So has Warren ❤ 🏳️‍🌈

Unfortunately, @TaylorSwift13 is one of many whose work has been threatened by a private equity firm. They're gobbling up more and more of our economy, costing jobs and crushing entire industries. It's time to rein in private equity firms—and I've got a plan for that.

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[Rad Bandolar]

If I were in this situation, I think the indignity of answering to someone named Scooter would be the thing that would eat at me the most.

 

[Soda]

Obviously this isn't her fault but this is literally no different they any artist that's been fucked over. Which is like 99.8% of them.

Of course they are going to strong arm her because her masters value will drop like a rock once she re-releases her work. Why the hell couldn't she wait until next year or whenever to do this AMA/Netflix stuff?

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I think the bolded is kind of the point: it's normalized shitty behavior/practices in the music industry, which has been predatory towards artists since forever. Taylor is just one of the few artists big enough to fight back in some sort of way. Not saying she's right or wrong, but I can't say I necessarily blame an artist for going on the offensive.

 

[kiKs__]

https://www.nydailynews.com/enterta...0191116-damjcppnl5buhayedb22exuvgq-story.html

Way to go Tay, I'm sure all the doxxing and death threats from your unhinged fans will get them to play nice lmao

 

[Donald Draper]

This is all he said she said, but Swift is someone who is quick to play victim and be misleading while weaponizing her fan base.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Love it when hate for an artist runs so deep people rush to defend equity firms and exploitative music labels!

 

[RedMercury]

I think artists should own the things they create, I guess my question is, if an artist willingly chooses to sell the rights to their stuff away, should that be allowed?

 

[ZeroX]

boy the different in perception between this and the author thing huh

 

[Brewm0nt]

So fucked up. These are the songs she wrote herself

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What in the full hell...she had numerous other songwriter credits on her music. As a former musician, I find it hilarious how many people are using the "it's her songs!" Argument when that is so far from the truth.

Y'all do realize that Beyoncé doesn't solely write her stuff either, right?

 

[NHarmonic.]

What in the full hell...she had numerous other songwriter credits on her music. As a former musician, I find it hilarious how many people are using the "it's her songs!" Argument when that is so far from the truth.

Y'all do realize that Beyoncé doesn't solely write her stuff either, right?

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Speak Now was entirely written by her. If anything, all the outtakes and recorded memos across the years prove she actually does the major part on that.

Inform yourself before posting crap. She's kinda different than the regular "performer" pop act.

 

[Grayson]

Lot of toxic male energy here blaming a 15 year old girl.

 

[Deleted member 1086]

Taylor Swift is well known for writing quite a bit of her own music, and even music for other people. Yeah sure some of her past material was co written with other people, but a lot of it she wrote herself. It's why so much of her music is so personal.

 

[SilentMike03]

People in this thread going to bat for the fucking Record Companies is some wild shit.

 

[entrydenied]

People in this thread going to bat for the fucking Record Companies is some wild shit.

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I'm also baffled by the "but the record company supported and groomed her" people, as though they didn't already get a huge cut from whatever she earned.

I'm not her fan and hasn't really followed her so correct me if I'm wrong but didn't these two guys just bought over the company and her masters, and had no hand in grooming her at all?

 

[Powdered Egg]

She should perform Public Enemy's "Fight the Power". This is a seriously messed up situation.

 

[Bricktop]

Why are these politicians trying to use Taylor Swift to gain brownie points? Way to fight for the little people! God knows the never worked a day in her life, silver spooned woman worth 360 million dollars needs all the help she can get. She's practically on food stamps!

Eat the rich, amirite ERA?

Lot of toxic male energy here blaming a 15 year old girl.

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You think a 15 year old girl signed those contracts by herself? And her father is no dummy, they knew what they were signing at the time. Not to mention he owns(owned) part of the company.

I find it hard to feel sorry for people who knowingly agree to unfavorable terms in order to get famous and then, because they actually end up super famous, they wanna whine about those terms after the fact.