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Blitzhex

Member
Jan 1, 2018
199
Unwinder (MSI Afterburner/RTSS) with some help from mdrejohn (BlurBusters) has created a method for getting tearing-less VSYNC OFF with fps capped at your refresh rate for low input lag (no additional vsync input lag), perfect frame pacing and little to no tearing. Which was something you could only previously achieve with VRR. You do however need a quite a bit of performance overhead to achieve it.

Edit: Removed old unsupported methods and added new method below.

Beta 3 is out with the gui update. https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/rtss-6-7-0-beta-1.412822/page-64#post-5561023
The older VSYNC ON methods aren't recommended anymore and you don't have to edit the cfg anymore.

Uninstall your old rtss install and make sure the rtss folder is deleted in program files to remove previous cfgs.

Requirements for tearing-less VSYNC OFF:
Don't use vsync or fps caps ingame and set rtss fps limit to 0. Set exclusive fullscreen ingame. Needs <65% gpu usage (in my experience in dx11 games) for it to work correctly or you would get large tearbands and random jump tearlines.

- Set Scanline sync in rtss GUI anywhere from 1050 to 1070 on a 1080p monitor (1125 scanlines total) to move the tear line to the bottom of the screen at 1050 or offscreen at 1070.
Experiment with the it. The value would be higher on a higher res monitor. Move it to the bottom rather than the top of the screen(link).
You can also click Scanline sync in the gui to toggle to x2 Scanline sync, so it caps at 120fps@60hz etc for tearlingless vsync off.
Setting Scanline sync to 0 turns it off.

RTSS Beta 4 is out and added "ScanlineSync x/2", which is half refresh rate tearingless VSYNC OFF. A feature I requested Unwinder for and one that a lot of people will appreciate.
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/rtss-6-7-0-beta-1.412822/page-64#post-5562770

-Click the scanlinesync button in rtss twice for Scanline sync x/2, which would give you half refreshrate tearingless vsync off i.e 60fps@120hz or 30fps@60hz etc. This is really great for demanding games, console ports etc.
-An additional command for powerusers "SyncPeriods" has been added, to be used in the cfg under [Framerate] for tearlingless vsync off at multiples less than your refresh rate. SyncPeriods command is calculated by RefreshRate/(SyncPeriods+1), so SyncPeriods=1 would be 60fps@120hz and SyncPeriods=3 would be 30fps@120hz etc.
There's no need to alter your monitor's refresh rate anymore to get tearingless vsync off working at any multiple of your refreshrate.

You still need less than 70% gpu usage, vsync off ingame and exclusive fullscreen for it to work correctly.

upload_2018-6-27_13-1xokdl.png


Source, additional commands and read first if you want to try it out:
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4173
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/rtss-6-7-0-beta-1.412822/page-64#post-5561023
 
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Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
Toronto
Uh, wow. If this works as good as it should, this is pretty huge. I ponied up for a gsync monitor just to kill tearing.
 

Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,924
I tested this beam racing method with WinUAE the other day, and it's pretty cool. I didn't expect to ever see it outside of emulators.
 

gcwy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,685
Houston, TX
Tearingless v-sync off the way to go, as long as you don't get tearing. I don't know why but my previous desktop system had little to no tearing at all. I wouldn't even care for turning v-sync on because it would only give me more input lag. Windows 10's triple buffering when in windowed mode is also much better than v-sync, at the cost of a few frames.

Does anyone know where the old config is stored? I have over 50 games each with their own unique setting and don't want to risk losing this for the new version.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Whoa it's like the gsync monitors made people aware of the need and here's the solution.
 

Skip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
156
Any idea if the low lag V-sync ON option works with games capped at 30fps? Or does the method also rely on running the game at refresh rate framerate?
 

Mr_Blue_Sky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
826
So is this worth trying to get running now? I was reading through the threads posted on this a bit and it seems like maybe I should wait for a bit more coverage/stability across more games.
 
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Blitzhex

Blitzhex

Member
Jan 1, 2018
199
Any idea if the low lag V-sync ON option works with games capped at 30fps? Or does the method also rely on running the game at refresh rate framerate?

You would need to set the screen to 30hz for it to work correctly, but the inherent inputlag of 30hz would kill it imo.

I haven't tested it in half refresh rate scenarios. Consider asking the blurbusters admin at the linked thread because he wants more people testing it out in more games for him.
 

Smash-It Stan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,268
This could be a game changer for me. Playing borderless windowed was my go to but introduces unfixable microstutter, but doing fullscreen removed alt tabbing and introduced eye killing screen tear, with vsync adding tons of input lag. Everyone said my solution was a $500 monitor(how did PC gaming work before those monitors?)

Gonna try this on every single game the second I get home, I'll fund their patreon if it means I can PC game again.
 
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Blitzhex

Blitzhex

Member
Jan 1, 2018
199
This could be a game changer for me. Playing borderless windowed was my go to but introduces unfixable microstutter, but doing fullscreen removed alt tabbing and introduced eye killing screen tear, with vsync adding tons of input lag. Everyone said my solution was a $500 monitor(how did PC gaming work before those monitors?)

Gonna try this on every single game the second I get home, I'll fund their patreon if it means I can PC game again.

People just lived with bad frame pacing, tearing or vsync input lag before VRR. Gsync is still by far the best option and has a lot more uses. You can cap at any fps you want within the gsync range, or have it fluctuate and still get perfect frame pacing with almost no additional input lag created.


This has limited usage and works best in older games/games where you less than 60% gpu usage and your cpu isn't maxed out, like competitive fps games.

You can test how the vsync off method tearing behavior works in a game like Overwatch, where you can easily alter your gpu usage by changing rendering scale from 50-200%

I'm on 1080ti with 1080p display right now, away from my gsync monitor. Since the gpu is overkill for everything at 1080p, I've got tearingless vsync off working perfectly, give or take a few tearline jumps, in a handful of games I've tried.
 

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,936
This is phenomenal.

I have a gsync monitor, but this is great from RTSS
 

Parsnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,907
Finland
Huh, fascinating.
Though I don't think I play a ton of games where my gpu usage sits under 60%.

Do both methods need the low gpu usage or just the tearingless vsync off?
 
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Blitzhex

Blitzhex

Member
Jan 1, 2018
199
Unwinder is considering adding scanline sync options in the gui for non power users in the next beta.

upload_2018-6-27_13-1xokdl.png



Huh, fascinating.
Though I don't think I play a ton of games where my gpu usage sits under 60%.

Do both methods need the low gpu usage or just the tearingless vsync off?

I haven't tested the vsync on scanline methods.
actualrefreshrate - 0.01 would be a better option to use in all cases with vsync on, since there's no performance implication.
Here's how you do it. https://www.blurbusters.com/howto-low-lag-vsync-on/
 

mdrejhon

Member
Apr 26, 2018
4
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Chief Blur Buster here.

The old low-lag VSYNC ON technique is wonderful but it creates a sawtooth input-lag artifact caused by the slow-slewing between framerate and refreshrate, as it slowly beat-frequencies. At 144Hz, the lag variance amplitude is only 6.9ms.

Sometimes for some games, the low-lag VSYNC ON capping technique is a tough goldilocks compromise on stutter beat frequency between:
- Too large (e.g. 59fps at 60Hz) and you get one single microstutter stutter per second.
- Too tight (e.g. 59.99fps at 60Hz) and you get a 100 second cycle of 80 seconds perfect smooth followed by 20 seconds of stutters.

So you have to tweak until you've essentially getting only 1 near-invisible microstutter every many seconds. For example, 59.9fps cap at 60Hz (0.1 difference) would generate 1 microstutter every 10 seconds. You keep going until the tiny microstutter becomes a sustained annoying burst of stutters (because of rounding error margins as it jitters back and forth past the blanking intervals). It's a very fiddly tweak that sometimes is hard to find a Goldilocks setting.

______________

The new perfect-matching raster-scanline based capping method is theoretically more user friendly (but it has a few catches that makes it fiddly in different ways -- further improvements are ongoing to automate some common sense, based on some suggestions).

The perfect framerate sync method eliminates this, and if you have excess GPU headroom, then why the heck not. If your game can blast 200fps anyway, then capping to 120fps won't degrade performance if your GPU has tons of headroom for the raster-synchronized tearingless VSYNC OFF mode that looks just like VSYNC ON (but with less lag).

The catches:
-- It only works if you have excess GPU horsepower and your GPU almost always want to run framerates above the cap. So this works well with older games.
-- In exchange for eating into some GPU headroom, you get more perfect framepacing with low-lag at capped framerates, creating a "VSYNC ON looking mode" via tearingless VSYNC OFF.
-- Tearing will reappear once your GPU utilization becomes high again. Tearlines will disappear again once GPU utilization falls below a threshold. Its quite dynamic. (So even if this happens only a percentage of the time, it doesn't mean this is useless)

Use SyncFlush=2 if you want to have even fewer tearlines, at the cost of eating up more headroom. It works best when your GPU utilization is well below 100%, which occurs when you're capping older games anyway. That way, you avoid the performance loss. Please be noted, it is a beta-only feature, and can be fiddly, and not guaranteed to make it all the way to the release version of RTSS. However, I'd love to hear more comments to see if it helps you.

Incidentially, it improves ULMB a lot:

Then doing 100Hz "perfect stutter-free jitter-free tear-free low-lag ULMB/LightBoost" at 100fps perfect cap -- then who cares if you're using only 50% of your GPU to get perfect low-lag ULMB motion? Many of us have hated the amplified stutter/tearing of ULMB, and the only way to fix that is using VSYNC ON with ULMB, which adds horrible lag. This allows people who like strobing otherwise) to have cake and eat it too (to a certain extent). There's still slight strobe lag, but ~75% of the lag seems gone (give or take), which can make strobing much more enjoyable, depending on which games you play (100fps@100Hz or 120fps@120Hz or 144fps@144Hz -- choose one depending on how much GPU headroom you have).

Again, remember -- this is a feature only avaialble in RTSS betas.

It is more likely to make it into final release if people say they like the feature. Test some older games (e.g. CS:GO) with this new capping feature.

And for ULMB users, test this out too, and find out how much snappier the aiming may feel during strobed operation.
 
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Skip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
156
Chief Blur Buster here.
The old low-lag VSYNC ON technique is wonderful but it creates a sawtooth input-lag artifact caused by the slow-slewing between framerate and refreshrate, as it slowly beat-frequencies. At 144Hz, the lag variance amplitude is only 6.9ms.

Hi! I had no idea this is a thing. What is the lag variance at ~60Hz?

Also, "tearingless VSYNC OFF" sounds like a pc gaming unicorn so all this is really great news. Props to everybody working on this.
 

mdrejhon

Member
Apr 26, 2018
4
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
I don't think it will have that much of an impact.
It's different tools in the same toolbox. GSYNC/FreeSync is useful and has a lot of benefits. It smooths out varying framerates quite well, and is wonderful for newer games that bog the GPU down and the framerate varies quite a lot. You get the newest fancy graphics-heavy game, it's much more pleasant to play on Ultra Detail settings with GSYNC.

This is more applicable to fixed-framerate situations (including use with ULMB).

And besides, you need to get GSYNC in order to get ULMB anyway (which benefits from this trick).
 

mdrejhon

Member
Apr 26, 2018
4
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Hi! I had no idea this is a thing. What is the lag variance at ~60Hz?
1/144sec = 6.9ms
1/60sec = 16.7ms

Also, "tearingless VSYNC OFF" sounds like a pc gaming unicorn so all this is really great news. Props to everybody working on this.
There are still caveats with it, it requires excess GPU horsepower -- your GPU will only be able to be milked to roughly ~60%+ of its potential -- in order to do this new mode very well.

Guess I better sell my G-Sync monitor before it's worthless, lol..
There's a massive number of other GSYNC benefits other than this. Varying framerates becoming stutter free. Existence of ULMB. Etc.

And the low-lag VSYNC ON tricks starts glitching a little (major tearing can suddenly appear) if your frame rate fall below refresh rate and/or your GPU utilizes starts nearly maxing out. So there's a double-edge sword element. Plus, you still have a smidgen more lag than unsynchronized VSYNC OFF. Still far less than unoptimized VSYNC ON, though!

Works great for several use cases, though.
 

Skip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
156
Sorry for hijacking this thread with another semi-related question, but what is the best approach for lower lag in a game where you do get those occasional drops below 60fps on a regular 60Hz display? Nvidia's adaptive V-sync does not seem to work with RTSS framecap, I get tearing all the time. Is there anything extra I can do?
 

accx

Member
Oct 28, 2017
552
Sorry for hijacking this thread with another semi-related question, but what is the best approach for lower lag in a game where you do get those occasional drops below 60fps on a regular 60Hz display? Nvidia's adaptive V-sync does not seem to work with RTSS framecap, I get tearing all the time. Is there anything extra I can do?

The previous "hack"/"workaround" prior to this was:
https://www.blurbusters.com/howto-low-lag-vsync-on/
As mentioned in the OT. But you'll notice that if your fps drop below your limit you're gonna have a bad time. Either get better hardware, lower the in game graphics settings or if you can stand it, lock to 30fps.
A VRR Monitor would alleviate and create a better experience as well, although once you get down to 45 fps or lower a vrr monitor won't help you much, if i recall correctly (maybe it's 25 fps, i can't remember).
 
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Blitzhex

Blitzhex

Member
Jan 1, 2018
199
Beta 3 is out with the gui update. https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/rtss-6-7-0-beta-1.412822/page-64#post-5561023
The older VSYNC ON methods aren't recommended anymore and you don't have to edit the cfg anymore.

Uninstall your old rtss install and make sure the rtss folder is deleted in program files to remove previous cfgs.

Requirements for tearing-less VSYNC OFF:
Don't use vsync or fps caps ingame and set rtss fps limit to 0. Set exclusive fullscreen ingame. Needs <65% gpu usage (in my experience in dx11 games) for it to work correctly or you would get large tearbands and random jump tearlines.

- Set Scanline sync in rtss GUI anywhere from 1050 to 1070 on a 1080p monitor (1125 scanlines total) to move the tear line to the bottom of the screen at 1050 or offscreen at 1070.
Experiment with the it. The value would be higher on a higher res monitor. Move it to the bottom rather than the top of the screen(link).
You can also click Scanline sync in the gui to toggle to x2 Scanline sync, so it caps at 120fps@60hz etc for tearlingless vsync off.
Setting Scanline sync to 0 turns it off.
 

Skip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
156
From the release notes:
adaptive VSync with low input lag on 60Hz refresh rate

There it is! I missed it somehow. I guess I'll have to try to make it work.

So it seems you can now use RTSS to cover multiple possible game performance variants: with lots of spare performance you go with tearingless VSYNC OFF, for games running not as fast but comfortably above 60 you go with low lag VSYNC ON and there is also a low lag adaptive VSYNC variant for those titles where you do get those dips. Nice!
 
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Nikus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,362
This sounds amazing. I'll have to try it soon. I'd love to read more impressions in the meantime.
I don't really all the tech talk but if I understand correctly, if I have a pretty good rig it should work well with games that are a few years old? I was planning to play Metal Gear Rising next so if I can play games like this with vsync off and without tearing I'll be in heaven.
 
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Blitzhex

Blitzhex

Member
Jan 1, 2018
199
This sounds amazing. I'll have to try it soon. I'd love to read more impressions in the meantime.
I don't really all the tech talk but if I understand correctly, if I have a pretty good rig it should work well with games that are a few years old? I was planning to play Metal Gear Rising next so if I can play games like this with vsync off and without tearing I'll be in heaven.

If you have a good enough rig it should work in all games. Goal is to keep less than 70% gpu usage. It should work fine in MGS Rising since it's not very intensive to run.
With the feature being included in the GUI now it should only take a second to setup.

Unwinder is adding support for framerate multiples less than your refresh rate in the next release.
So scanline sync would be the best and lowest input lag method to play 30/60fps@120hz or 30fps@60hz etc games pretty soon. As 1/2 refresh rate vsync adds a ton of input lag.
 
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Blitzhex

Blitzhex

Member
Jan 1, 2018
199
RTSS Beta 4 is out and added "ScanlineSync x/2", which is half refresh rate tearingless VSYNC OFF. A feature I requested Unwinder for and one that a lot of people will appreciate.
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/rtss-6-7-0-beta-1.412822/page-64#post-5562770

-Click the scanlinesync button in rtss twice for Scanline sync x/2, which would give you half refreshrate tearingless vsync off i.e 60fps@120hz or 30fps@60hz etc. This is really great for demanding games, console ports etc.
-An additional command for powerusers "SyncPeriods" has been added, to be used in the cfg under [Framerate] for tearlingless vsync off at multiples less than your refresh rate. SyncPeriods command is calculated by RefreshRate/(SyncPeriods+1), so SyncPeriods=1 would be 60fps@120hz and SyncPeriods=3 would be 30fps@120hz etc.
There's no need to alter your monitor's refresh rate anymore to get tearingless vsync off working at any multiple of your refreshrate.

You still need less than 70% gpu usage, vsync off ingame and exclusive fullscreen for it to work correctly.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,974
LTTP, but it seems like no matter what settings I use with the latest Rivatuner, I always get tearing, and too much of it. Any tips if I want to cap a game to 30 / 60 fps, and with minimal input lag?
 

Deleted member 10852

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
298
Anyone here tested S-sync? im trying with witcher 3 but feel weird, any guide or something? i was told i should use -30 for 1080p
 

Simboubou

Member
Nov 16, 2018
30
Hello here,

I've tried using this in Assassin's creed oddysey, to play at 30fps. Fps does go to 30, but the frame pacing reported by SpecialK is not as good as using SpecialK limiter. I tried reactivating SpecialK framerate limiter, it does improve frame pacing, but I'm not sure if to two are supposed to work together.

Also, previous messages indicate that I need to have some extra GPU to spare. I do, but I don't have any CPU to spare. Does it count ?
Thanks !
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
I tried S Sync with some games that get very very high frame rates and it didn't work correctly. Juddery or has tearing that I can never move off the screen.
 

Skyfireblaze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,257
I just saw this, do I get that right that you need near double the FPS for this to work, eg. 120fps @ 60hz?
 

mdrejhon

Member
Apr 26, 2018
4
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
You must have your GPU to mostly stay below 50% for scanline sync to work reliably.

See HOWTO.

Technical Explanation: This is because VSYNC OFF tearlines are rasters, and you need ultra-precision to time tearlines (rasters) between refresh cycles. It's easy to do with older games, but much harder to do with Witcher.

New Trick: If you hate occasional tearing from frametime spikes, you can also calibrate RTSS scanline-sync to co-operate with NVIDIA Fast Sync or AMD Enhanced Sync, using HOWTO: Combining RTSS scanline-sync with NVIDIA Fast Sync or AMD Enhanced Sync
 
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BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,974
You must have your GPU to mostly stay below 50% for scanline sync to work reliably.

See HOWTO.

Technical Explanation: This is because VSYNC OFF tearlines are rasters, and you need ultra-precision to time tearlines (rasters) between refresh cycles. It's easy to do with older games, but much harder to do with Witcher.

New Trick: If you hate occasional tearing from frametime spikes, you can also calibrate RTSS scanline-sync to co-operate with NVIDIA Fast Sync or AMD Enhanced Sync, using HOWTO: Combining RTSS scanline-sync with NVIDIA Fast Sync or AMD Enhanced Sync

If you use Fast / enhanced sync with Scanline, do you still have to keep gpu usage low for it all to work? Is there any way in the future that scanline sync (or something similar) could hide the tearline at or near 100% gpu usage?
 
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Blitzhex

Blitzhex

Member
Jan 1, 2018
199
If you use Fast / enhanced sync with Scanline, do you still have to keep gpu usage low for it all to work? Is there any way in the future that scanline sync (or something similar) could hide the tearline at or near 100% gpu usage?

Scanline sync near 100% gpu usage would be great.
I've stopped using this now since nvidia released freesync support. Scanline sync still has some pros though, like getting tearling less vsync-off at x2 your refreshrate in easy to run competitive shooters etc.
 

Mindman

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
485
Old thread resurrection:

Can someone tell me the keyboard shortcut for moving the tear line up and down???

EDIT: And how to enable said keyboard shortcut?
 
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EeK9X

Member
Jan 31, 2019
1,068
Old thread resurrection:

Can someone tell me the keyboard shortcut for moving the tear line up and down???

EDIT: And how to enable said keyboard shortcut?

You have to add "SyncHotkeys=1" (without quotation marks) to your Global RTSS CFG file, under [Framerate].

Then, you control the scanline by holding CTRL+SHIFT and pressing UP/DOWN (arrow keys) to move the tearline up and down.