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Jeremiah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
774
Big Boss Salute, BumRush

Welcome to the TV thread. Come in to talk about television displays, HDR/Dolby Vision, tips/tricks/settings and more. If you need help picking out a TV, whatever your needs, please ask!
Thread will be updated regularly as new models and information come out.

2wK5wLH.gif

Courtesy of GearDraxon

OLED Burn-In

Burn-in is a concern for many gamers. OLED TV's have a low risk for permanent image retention with varied/general use. The colors red/orange are most susceptible, and display brightness impacts the chances as well. Many OLED owners on Era have put in well over 100+ hours into games (without varied content) and have not experienced permanent image retention. Kyoufu on the other hand has a Netflix logo burned in, something that seldom appears on screen. The poll conducted at AVS below have 9% of OLED owners experiencing permanent burn-in. Having owned 4 OLED's, my personal opinion is that outside of panel lottery, permanent image retention is unlikely. Below are two resources worth looking at when researching OLED burn-in.

Burn-in Resources

RTINGS Real Usage Test - https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test
AVS Owners Poll - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ibit-image-persistence-burn.html#post55103196


Recommended Gaming TV's

Best Budget TV's ($150-650)

TCL S Series (LCD, 720-1080p, 28-49 inches, 28.7ms input lag)
Samsung UM7000 (LCD, 4k, HDR, 40-65 inches, 21ms input lag)
TCL P607 (LCD, 4k, HDR, 55 inches, 14ms input lag)

Best Mid Range TV's ($650-$1200)

Vizio P Series (LCD, 4k, HDR, 55-75 inches, 16ms input lag)
Sony X900 E (LCD, 4k, HDR, 49-75 inches, 34ms input lag)

Best Gaming TV's ($1200++)

Sony X930/40E (LCD, 4k, HDR, 55-75 inches, 25ms input lag @4k, 42ms input lag@1080p)
LG B7/C7 (OLED, 4k, HDR, 55-77 inches, 21.4ms input lag)
Sony AE1 (OLED, 4k, HDR, 55-77 inches, 30.7ms input lag @4k, 47.4ms input lag@1080p)


Different TV Technologies

KdedauM.jpg



How Big Should I Go?

1CSQEPEm.png


Reference Material for HDR (work in progress)

Games

Resident Evil 7
Forza Horizon 3 + Forza Motorsport 7 + Gran Turismo Sport
Horizon Zero Dawn
Uncharted 4 + TLL
Ratchet & Clank

Movies

As per @Nothing:

for popping color:
John Wick 2
Passengers
Blade Runner 2049
Transformers 1-4

for best 4K presentation:
A Few Good Men
Starship Troopers
Leon: The Professional
Sicario
The Revenant
Zero Dark Thirty
Dunkirk
Unforgiven
Star Trek: Into Darkness
Blade Runner (1982)

Shows

Chef's Table
Dare Devil
Bosch

Save Up To $500 Using Credit Card Price Protection (USA, AVS)


Purchase your TV using any credit card that offers price protection (Chase in this example). I did this with my OLED purchase and got it for effectively $1000 last year. Gather the following:
  1. Claim form
  2. Itemized receipt
  3. Card statement showing the purchase
  4. Printed ad or non-auction Internet ad with sale price, store or dealer's name, and the date the sale is in effect (print screen works)
You just have to find a website that is selling the exact model you have for a lower price. It doesn't if it's an authorized dealer or a reputable business. I used Cliff Deals because they had the lowest price I found. Chase said once approved, it takes 5 days to send out a check."

Upcoming Tech/News (last update 11/28/17)

HDMI 2.1 Feature Comparison Image

FeatureSupport.png


CES January 2018

New product announcements for TV's and AV equipment. Expect a lot of HDMI 2.1 devices.

HDMI 2.1

The new HDMI2.1 specification has just been announced and it contains some really good improvements over HDMI 2.0
  • Higher Video Resolutions support a range of higher resolutions and faster refresh rates including 8K60Hz and 4K120Hz for immersive viewing and smooth fast-action detail.
  • Dynamic HDR ensures every moment of a video is displayed at its ideal values for depth, detail, brightness, contrast, and wider color gamuts-on a scene-by-scene or even a frame-by-frame basis.
  • 48G cables enable up to 48Gbps bandwidth for uncompressed HDMI 2.1 feature support including 8K video with HDR. The cable is backwards compatible with earlier versions of the HDMI Specification and can be used with existing HDMI devices.
  • eARC supports the most advanced audio formats such as object-based audio, and enables advanced audio signal control capabilities including device auto-detect.
  • Game Mode VRR features variable refresh rate, which enables a 3D graphics processor to display the image at the moment it is rendered for more fluid and better detailed gameplay, and for reducing or eliminating lag, stutter, and frame tearing.
  • FAQ here: https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx

More Info Coming

Resources

Reviews
http://www.rtings.com/tv
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk
http://www.consumertop.com/best-projector-for-gaming/

Calibration
Our very own III-V, post #6
Our very own FrankNitty, post #48

Data
https://displaylag.com

Compare TV Sizes
http://displaywars.com
 
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Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Probably buying one once Red Dead Redemption releases. So March-April. Is it currently possible to get a ~€650 4k/HDR10/40-42 inch television?
 
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Jeremiah

Jeremiah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
774
Probably buying one once Red Dead Redemption releases. So March-April. Is it currently possible to get a ~€650 4k/HDR10/40-42 inch television?

Are you pretty fixed on the TV size? The only thing I can think of would be the Samsung MU7000 right now... not sure about the price in the UK, but I know they have a 43 inch version.
Unfortunately I really don't think the set is adequate for HDR, it has a peak brightness of 300 nits.

Since you are looking to buy in March/April, I recommend waiting until CES (The E3 equivalent for display tech) in January. They are bound to have more competitive offerings at the size and budget you have then I bet.
 

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Are you pretty fixed on the TV size? The only thing I can think of would be the Samsung MU7000 right now... not sure about the price in the UK, but I know they have a 43 inch version.
Unfortunately I really don't think the set is adequate for HDR, it has a peak brightness of 300 nits.

Since you are looking to buy in March/April, I recommend waiting until CES (The E3 equivalent for display tech) in January. They are bound to have more competitive offerings at the size and budget you have then I bet.

Nah, I'd buy bigger if I can still remain within my budget, of course! But mostly, I just want 4K with good HDR10. Seems like that'll get me through the next couple of years.

And yeah, I'm in mainland Europe, and it's really confusing with all of those different names and stuff!
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
To further the effort, here is the calibration links and info. This was linked in the OG OT.


Below is all you need to calibrate your set at a very high level (color temp, luminance, black level, white level, greyscale, and colors brightnesses and color saturations) at the very lowest price -only the equipment. You will need to spend a bit of time in 'study mode' but you don't need a degree for this.

I use the i1DisplayPro 3. I paid about $170.

Hardware:

Color Munki Display: ~$130 or less Amazon
http://www.xrite.com/categories/calibration-profiling/colormunki-display

i1Display Pro 3(EODIS3) ~$150 to 200
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055MBQOW/?tag=era0f0-20

http://www.xrite.com/categories/calibration-profiling/i1display-pro

Software:

HCFR (controls the meter) -$0 donate if you can

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...ation-software.html#/topics/1393853?_k=lae6t4

AVS709 (test patterns) -$0 thanks AVS

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...mp4-calibration.html#/topics/948496?_k=0mdccp

A Classic Guide
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

EDIT: this took me around 16 hours to learn. Each night for a week I calibrated, and got better and better. Around night 4, I was satisfied and started 'playing around'.

For a new TV, it takes me about3 hrs between figuring out the menus and manufacturers lingo. But it is quite worth it and once you have the idea, it's like riding a bike.

EDIT 2: Currently learning HDR calibration.

Test Patterns -$25

Full suite

Free Demo

Will update with HDR guide when I find a great one.

Edit 3:

Best way to calibrate your PC monitor? 3D LUT, here is how:

http://www.lightillusion.com/lut_calibration_idiots_guide.html

DisplayCal:
https://displaycal.net
 
Oct 25, 2017
651
Anyone with a LG E7 or other OLED model having an issue with intermittent flicker/flash on the Apple TV 4K? This seems to have started for me after the latest firmware update. I have the ATV set to 4:2:2 and Dolby Vision with a certified high speed HDMI cable.
 

Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
Good for this thread to come back.

So last opinion I asked back on the other forum was if I should go for the 55" C7 LG OLED or the 65" Sony X900E. I'm still very undecided to go for the bigger size or the inky blacks.

I can get the 55inch OLED for 1800€ and the 65" X900E for 1500€

Also what is the easiest hardware calibrator for a new user? I already calibrate my TVs with the AVS.709 REC BluRay but I wanted to go deeper in color accuracy
 
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Jeremiah

Jeremiah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
774
Nah, I'd buy bigger if I can still remain within my budget, of course! But mostly, I just want 4K with good HDR10. Seems like that'll get me through the next couple of years.

And yeah, I'm in mainland Europe, and it's really confusing with all of those different names and stuff!

Oh okay, like molnizzle says, it's easier to get a quality set in the 55inch range. Boy in that case, do be on the look out for the TCL P series TV. It's not coming to Europe at the moment, but I'm sure next year they'll release a model. The P607 is a 55inch TV, great input lag, good picture quality, decent HDR for $650. Value can't be beat!

sweet TV tech is back. Is that you, BumRush?

Nah mate, my old username was Kambing. Wanted to see more discussion about TV's!
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
Good for this thread to come back.

So last opinion I asked back on the other forum was if I should go for the 55" C7 LG OLED or the 65" Sony X900E. I'm still very undecided to go for the bigger size or the inky blacks.

I can get the 55inch OLED for 1800€ and the 65" X900E for 1500€

Also what is the easiest hardware calibrator for a new user? I already calibrate my TVs with the AVS.709 REC BluRay but I wanted to go deeper in color accuracy
What meter are you using?
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,879
Asia
So last opinion I asked back on the other forum was if I should go for the 55" C7 LG OLED or the 65" Sony X900E. I'm still very undecided to go for the bigger size or the inky blacks.

I can't speak to the user experience with the C7 or the whole firmware thing, but I would undoubtedly take a 55" OLED over a 65" LED. The screen wow factor is incredible, and will last a bit longer than the "is this screen too big?" moment of any given 65" TV.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
No meter. I go by eye with the Black and White levels patterns, and then use the blue filter pattern for Hue. White balance always go form the Warm tones.
Unscientific :/
Ok, well Rec709 disc is fine. Next step is to not go by eye and purchase a meter for color accuracy and perfect greyscale, you will be happy you did. I posted all the relevant links above..

I have a meter and still use that disc, its really good, no need to spend money on some other setup disc.
 
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Jeremiah

Jeremiah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
774
Anyone with a LG E7 or other OLED model having an issue with intermittent flicker/flash on the Apple TV 4K? This seems to have started for me after the latest firmware update. I have the ATV set to 4:2:2 and Dolby Vision with a certified high speed HDMI cable.

My friend updated his 2017 OLED to the latest firmware, and began experiencing the EXACT same issues you are. Can you check what firmware you are on?

I'm seriously thinking about picking up the TCL P607.

My other friend has this display and it's a lot of technology for $650, especially at 55 inches. He's really pleased with it. I will caution that if you can do credit card price protection, you might be able to score a 55 inch OLED for $800-900 this Black Friday. Just a thought.
 

Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
Ok, well Rec709 disc is fine. Next step is to not go by eye and purchase a meter for color accuracy and perfect greyscale, you will be happy you did. I posted all the relevant links above..

I have a meter and still use that disc, its really good, no need to spend money on some other setup disc.

But between the Color Munki and the l1display pro, which would you recommend?
Both work for TVs and monitors right?
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
But between the Color Munki and the l1display pro, which would you recommend?
Both work for TVs and monitors right?
I guess i1DP, never used a color munki.

That said, it is cheaper (less features, but may not matter to you), and I think it should work with HCFR (which is 100% critical to get and use, as it will command the meter).

https://xritephoto.com/documents/literature/en/L7-507_DisplaySolutions_en.pdf

Here is a bit more info looking between the two systems.

EDIT, and yes, I have done all my computers, laptops, even my monitors at work, in the lab, tv's projectors, etc.
 

Totakeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,673
I sold my EG9100 and looking to get a C7 in the near future. Any recommendations for a speaker setup at 1k budget for a small apartment?
 

FLEABttn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,007
Anyone with a LG E7 or other OLED model having an issue with intermittent flicker/flash on the Apple TV 4K? This seems to have started for me after the latest firmware update. I have the ATV set to 4:2:2 and Dolby Vision with a certified high speed HDMI cable.

I've read elsewhere that the Apple TV 4K is flickering with Dolby Vision on the newest LG 2017 firmware. I currently haven't enabled HDR on my 4K Apple TV yet so haven't noticed this myself.
 

RoboPlato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,805
Finally upgrading in the next couple of weeks. Getting an X900E. Can't wait. My current set is from 2009 and was low end back then.
 

demazin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
99
Heya!

I'm in the market for a new TV primarily for gaming and would like some guidance.

I'm trying to decide from these three 65 inches; the LG B6, the Sony X900E, and the LG C7.
Now I live in Japan and TV's are fucking expensive here so the best prices I can get for these are around 2,700 USD for the B6 and X900E, and 3,600 USD for the C7.
I know the C7 response times are improved over the B6 but is there a noticeable difference in image quality worth the extra grand? The X900E is on my list because I'm a little worried about OLED image retention. I had issues with image retention on my old Panasonic plasma. Damn you Destiny!!!

Any help is much appreciated!
 

Palantiri

Member
Oct 25, 2017
545
With my daughter getting into the running phase and another on the way, we decided to makeover the basement as a play space, so my theatre setup is no longer viable. Instead I set up in the smallest bedroom (about 9'x10') and picked up the 55" C7. My god, I absolutely love the look of this TV. I am moving from a 65" V25 Plasma and I feel like I have never seen high definition before! Of course I also went from a viewing distance of about 11' to one of 6', but the colour depth, black levels and whites are just amazing. I never want to leave this room. I went from no interest in the XBX1 to it being a must buy and worrying about how I am going to convince my wife to start buying 4K blurays when only one TV in the house supports it.
 
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Jeremiah

Jeremiah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
774
Heya!

I'm in the market for a new TV primarily for gaming and would like some guidance.

I'm trying to decide from these three 65 inches; the LG B6, the Sony X900E, and the LG C7.
Now I live in Japan and TV's are fucking expensive here so the best prices I can get for these are around 2,700 USD for the B6 and X900E, and 3,600 USD for the C7.
I know the C7 response times are improved over the B6 but is there a noticeable difference in image quality worth the extra grand? The X900E is on my list because I'm a little worried about OLED image retention. I had issues with image retention on my old Panasonic plasma. Damn you Destiny!!!

Any help is much appreciated!

I moved from the B6 to a B7... after selling the B6, it only cost me $200 more to upgrade. In my opinion, though the C7 is better, it's not $1k better than the B6. Understand your concern about image retention. It's easy for me to say don't worry because over the 5 OLED's I've owned, I have no burn in at all. But some posters have experienced burn in...

I sold my EG9100 and looking to get a C7 in the near future. Any recommendations for a speaker setup at 1k budget for a small apartment?

Can you stretch that to $1.2k? If so, I'd recommend waiting for the Emotiva speakers to go on sale during BF. You'll get some top quality 5.0 speakers from them for around $1k then.
https://emotiva.com/product-category/airmotiv/

With my daughter getting into the running phase and another on the way, we decided to makeover the basement as a play space, so my theatre setup is no longer viable. Instead I set up in the smallest bedroom (about 9'x10') and picked up the 55" C7. My god, I absolutely love the look of this TV. I am moving from a 65" V25 Plasma and I feel like I have never seen high definition before! Of course I also went from a viewing distance of about 11' to one of 6', but the colour depth, black levels and whites are just amazing. I never want to leave this room. I went from no interest in the XBX1 to it being a must buy and worrying about how I am going to convince my wife to start buying 4K blurays when only one TV in the house supports it.

Glad you're enjoying it! Well, you know... most 4k blurays come with the regular BD disc, so -- profit?
 

Totakeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,673
Can you stretch that to $1.2k? If so, I'd recommend waiting for the Emotiva speakers to go on sale during BF. You'll get some top quality 5.0 speakers from them for around $1k then.
https://emotiva.com/product-category/airmotiv/

Do you mean this bundle? https://emotiva.com/product/5ch/

I don't mind stretching the budget if it's worth it. I'll need a receiver too. Also, I've mostly used 2.1 setups in the past, how do people usually deal with wiring for the speakers at the back?
 
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Jeremiah

Jeremiah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
774
Do you mean this bundle? https://emotiva.com/product/5ch/

I don't mind stretching the budget if it's worth it. I'll need a receiver too. Also, I've mostly used 2.1 setups in the past, how do people usually deal with wiring for the speakers at the back?

Yes sorry, that one. Great thing is they also have a 30 day return policy. Re: wiring, short of drilling into the wall/floor, people just try their best to conceal the cables I imagine lol.
Do you have a budget in mind for the receiver? Mind you, that bundle will probably be 30% off come BF!
 

demazin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
99
I moved from the B6 to a B7... after selling the B6, it only cost me $200 more to upgrade. In my opinion, though the C7 is better, it's not $1k better than the B6. Understand your concern about image retention. It's easy for me to say don't worry because over the 5 OLED's I've owned, I have no burn in at all. But some posters have experienced burn in...

Cheers, duder!
 

Totakeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,673
Yes sorry, that one. Great thing is they also have a 30 day return policy. Re: wiring, short of drilling into the wall/floor, people just try their best to conceal the cables I imagine lol.
Do you have a budget in mind for the receiver? Mind you, that bundle will probably be 30% off come BF!

I haven't really looked into receivers yet, and I probably just need it to work well with whatever speakers I'm getting and also play 4k blu ray. Otherwise my media setup is pretty centered around using chromecast for now so I don't think I need anything fancy and don't care that much for future proofing either. Not sure what's an adequate budget for that.

I suppose stands and wires will add another $100-200 on that?
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,542
Currently waiting for the 65' C7 to go on sale for closer to 2K. I'm looking to redo my entire theater area soon
 

AlphaTwo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
242
Toronto
Question for folks here. I'm looking to buy a new tv soon (new entertainment center), but is this also the right place to answer AV Receiver questions as well?

Looking to hook up all the systems, and ideally future proof it (so 4K, Dolby Atmos, etc...)
 
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Jeremiah

Jeremiah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
774
I suppose stands and wires will add another $100-200 on that?

Aye, I would honestly budget $300-400 for receiver and stand. Would you consider a soundbar? Some great ones now, that even have Dolby Atmos, might work well for your apartment? Less cables as well?

Question for folks here. I'm looking to buy a new tv soon (new entertainment center), but is this also the right place to answer AV Receiver questions as well?

Looking to hook up all the systems, and ideally future proof it (so 4K, Dolby Atmos, etc...)

Sure, ask away! Unfortunately, given the product cycle we are currently at, it's really hard to recommend equipment that will be future proof. Reason being, the next HDMI standard, HDMI 2.1, is supposed to release next year. I'll add the HDMI 2.1 info to the OP. If none of the HDMI 2.1 features matter to you, then any current receiver that outputs enough power for your speaker (relative to your space) should be fine. May I ask what speakers you are looking to hook up to the receiver and what the budget is?
 
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Gyroscope

Member
Oct 25, 2017
786
Awesome to see this thread migrate over too! Looking forward to CES2018. As I've a real interest in the 2018 LG OLEDs next year, with HDMI 2.1. Maybe even more competition pushing the 65" down even cheaper!
 

FrankNitty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
593
SoCal
Hey guys whats up. I just wanted to add a few things about calibration specifically HDR and somewhat Dolby Vision. So one thing for those that are looking at getting into calibration and looking at meters you will want to be mindful of what meter you get for teh display you are calibrating. I1D3 is an excellent meter great low light handling, fast, accurate. Though the REV will matter. REVA can go UP TO (though may not reach 1000 nits, or may exceed) So if you are calibrating an OLED no worries, if you are calibrating a LCD it may not fully read up to the nits your display can produce. REV B can go UP TO 1300 nits, REVB 17 can go past 2000 nits. So if you are a high end Samsung or Sony owner (Q9, or Z9D) you will probably want one of the higher rated or newer I1D3 REVB 2017 models.

Also for calibrating HDR since displays cannot do full REC 2020 you have to measure your primaries and secondaries in 50% SAT 50% LUM since the display can (should) cover that space.

Lastly for Dolby Vision if you have a 2017 model OLED you can calibrate it some as teh controls were provided, though if you are using Calman 2017 you can actually replace the golden reference file that was previously neeed. It will create the proper file you need that you save to USB upload to display and corrects the tone mapping for all DV content.

As for HCFR it is a great starting point but if you are dong multiple displays you may need offsets for your meter that are profiled against a specific display type. One benefit to using software like Calman and Chromapure and getting your meter through them is they are loaded with the offsets and correction tables already. Along with a host of workflows and the like. Calman Colorchecker is free as well and works for a quick check up to see where you are at accuracy wise.
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,402
Question for folks here. I'm looking to buy a new tv soon (new entertainment center), but is this also the right place to answer AV Receiver questions as well?

Looking to hook up all the systems, and ideally future proof it (so 4K, Dolby Atmos, etc...)
Ask away, there's usually plenty of cross-over for components like receivers.
 
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