Hahahaha at your word choice of 'accused' vs. 'admitted'. You're not slick.
The discussion is about voting for Biden if he is up against Trump. The primaries are not the issue. People can vote for Sanders over Biden and if he manages to get the nom then great but his chances are unlikely and Biden is most likely to win.Repeat after me.
BIDEN IS NOT THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT YET.
BIDEN IS NOT THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT YET.
There is still a chance for voters (unlikely) and/or the DNC (even more unlikely) to do the right thing here. But I'm too idealistic says defeatist people on this board who just throw up their hands and vote for a rapist.
And it says about African American leadership during that time and now. It ain't fucking shit.It's not like the crime bi was supported by the majority of black voters and black leaders. I know that's why mom doesn't completely blame him for it.
No one's asking for perfection. There were multiple better candidates during this primary than Biden. There's still one now.Cool, so you learned nothing from 2016. Nice.
And? If you're waiting for a perfect candidate that's a total angel, you're going to be waiting for a long goddamned time.
I point out that people didn't have this information these past few months. You say, "Well, he was a shitty person anyway." Being shitty doesn't disqualify someone from being a candidate. A lot of people said Hillary was a shitty person, too. You've just shown that you would've pushed this position regardless of these accusations.
Bernie is good and has great youth support. Young people didn't show up in the primaries.
Unless the heat gets so hot that he has to step down — which would require lengthy national attention
Politics are like religion. Its hard to be reasonable about something you really, really believe in.It's probably because, despite having the largest voting base, the "Democrats" are really two parties in one. Non-crazy moderates/conservatives and progressives. The progressives push the energy but they're actually a minority in their own party.
In my experience you're right that most people are wedge issue voters. Republicans make it real easy for their voters by basically being the party of "lower my taxes", "don't take my guns", and "abortion is murder". Three simple issues that encapsulate a whole lot of America. And if you're racist or bigoted we've got that too. Lets throw libertarians who are just looking for gridlock to slow the growth of government in there too because Congress is great at not getting things done.
Whereas I don't think Democrats are even aligned on wedge issues. Abortion rights, gun control, and taxation all have really wide interpretations in the Democratic party. Hell, immigration, health care, education, military spending, diplomacy, etc. also have various interpretations within the party.
So I understand the frustration of progressives because they're always having to cater to the moderates but the alternative is pretty awful.
Nah, there's still that third track. You are the one pretending it doesn't exist.
That's another discussion. My point is that it took a lot of grassroots action to get that bill enacted and passed.And it says about African American leadership during that time and now. It ain't fucking shit.
What did the Democrats learn from 2016? Nothing really. What you say will happen, won't happen. American history makes that pretty clear.
And Biden can't win the election with a credible rape accusation on his hands, so the second track doesn't exist. So no 2nd track, 3rd track is illusory, Trump wins in every scenario. So why not protest vote and send a real fucking message?I assume you're talking about Sanders? His electability argument might have made sense before Super Tuesday and the tuesdays that followed, but so far there's no reason to believe he could generate the turnout necessary to beat Trump and have a chance at flipping the senate, meaning that this third track ultimately loops back to the track with the large number of people on it.
Based on what???And Biden can't win the election with a credible rape accusation on his hands, so the second track doesn't exist. So no 2nd track, 3rd track is illusory, Trump wins in every scenario. So why not protest vote and send a real fucking message?
When the Democratic machine continues to produce old white rapists, no one will care about the party designation of the rapist you elected in 2020.For better or worse, I don't think Biden is going to lose too many votes over these allegations.
I think most voters are actually pretty pragmatic. When back alley abortions and unwanted babies become the norm again among the poor, no one will much care about the reasons you abstained.
is this not what people should be pushing for right now? is there any reason they shouldn't aside from "it's too hard"?
Repeat after me.
BIDEN IS NOT THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT YET.
BIDEN IS NOT THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT YET.
There is still a chance for voters (unlikely) and/or the DNC (even more unlikely) to do the right thing here. But I'm too idealistic says defeatist people on this board who just throw up their hands and vote for a rapist.
I really like the trolley comparison. Because it shows that's every 4 years we have one of those things runaway and we never bother to prevent this kind of thing from happening. And the worker put in this position gets the blame and guilt rather than anyone actually responsibleIt's a classic example of the Trolley Problem, except the number of people on the lower track is multiplied by a few million.
I've seen people comfortable in life enough to look at the statistics of non-voters and say its no big deal. Considering what many have suffered these past few years I'm glad they have the drive to go above and beyond.I've seen way more people concerned about those people choosing not to vote than I ever have people genuinely saying they wouldn't. It's starting to feel performative at this point.
For better or worse, I don't think Biden is going to lose too many votes over these allegations.
I think most voters are actually pretty pragmatic. When back alley abortions and unwanted babies become the norm again among the poor, no one will much care about the reasons you abstained.
Well-put. This is actually the only way in which the trolley problem is an apt analogy.I really like the trolley comparison. Because it shows that's every 4 years we have one of those things runaway and we never bother to prevent this kind of thing from happening. And the worker put in this position gets the blame and guilt rather than anyone actually responsible
Based the two parties that only one of which has people who care about not voting a rapist for president.
Based on the idea that we can apparently just generate "facts" that support our arguments. Which is what people who are saying Bernie can not beat Trump in the GE are doing.
There is plenty of woman and minorties(Hi!) calling out the absolute bullshit people like you are spewing because it puts all of us at risk.I wonder at one point the white liberals that make up the Democratic establishment - and, evidently, a significant chunk of the posters in this thread - will realize that trying to guilt women, minorities and other marginalized people into voting for the incredibly shitty rapist Democrat on the sole basis that he's not a Republican is an incredibly poor election strategy that both loses elections and completely undermines the moral authority upon which the whole "anyone but a Republican" viewpoint is based. This goes double when you sick motherfuckers have the gall to abandon all concept of human empathy by trying to frame a failure to pledge one's vote for said incredibly shitty rapist Democrat as a moral failing.
The marginalized people in America don't owe the Democrats shit. What you should have learned from 2016 is that "we're not cartoonishly evil" is not the sort of platform that gets you the automatic support of minorities. Instead, y'all have come back in 2020 with "we're less cartoonishly evil" and still the expectation exists that women, LGBT and PoC will pull the country's feet from the fire with absolutely no guarantee that anything will be done to fix their problems. The Democrats benefit massively from the minority vote but then as soon as election season is over their concerns are dropped. Electing as the leader a straight old white moderate rapist with a dubious-at-best background on race tells me that the Democrats aren't even trying to hide that fact anymore.
Continuing to support Joe Biden at this stage would send the message to the DNC that it's okay if the party is led by a rapist. That is the practical effect of throwing your hands in the air and this stage and resigning yourself to the inevitability of his nomination, and that's unacceptable. It's so unacceptable, in fact, that fixing this particular problem has to be priority number one.
Also, stop saying "credibly accused" of rape. The vast majority of rape accusations are true and they therefore begin credible. If something has a 95% chance of being true (like, incidentally, rape accusations), you don't treat it like it's probably not true because you'd be wrong most of the time.
Not sure how much influence we have on what the nightly news loops want to talk about. I'm pretty sure COVID is driving ratings right now, so that's going to be the story, and by the time it's not the hot news, this story will be forgotten by many even if they knew about it (most will likely never have heard of it).is this not what people should be pushing for right now? is there any reason they shouldn't aside from "it's too hard"?
I don't know if you've been paying attention, but there aren't many abortion clinics as it is.
You mean the party who's overwhelmingly decided to pick the very rapist you're referring to?? With increased turnout???Based the two parties that only one of which has people who care about not voting a rapist for president.
There's a big difference between the traditional democratic African Americans older versus the African American who vote for a Democrats.it was never the majority of black people, the majority of black don't give a fuck about Democratic party outside of four years maybe. they were the Uncle Tom's of our community they thought they could be like the white man but instead they still got arrested.That's another discussion. My point is that it took a lot of grassroots action to get that bill enacted and passed.
So does that mean folks are gonna vote for Tulsi Gabbards splinter party?
I've seen people comfortable in life enough to look at the statistics of non-voters and say its no big deal. Considering what many have suffered these past few years I'm glad they have the drive to go above and beyond.
To suggest that people (including those who have been sexually assaulted) should "swallow their pride" and support or vote for candidates that have sexually assaulted others is a pretty gross expectation.
Have you forgotten the emails?
Apparently he has already lost and even if he could win he is unelectable. Apparently the rape accusations against Biden don't change this.Are there only 2 options right now? What happened to Bernie Sanders?
Yes, before the rape allegation came out. And those who picked him aren't enough to win him the presidency anyway, even if none of them change their mind.You mean the party who's overwhelmingly decided to pick the very rapist you're referring to?? With increased turnout???
Based on all the elections so far he's mathematically stuck in "needs a fucking miracle" to win.Are there only 2 options right now? What happened to Bernie Sanders?
Exactly. The right is all in on trampling over women's reproductive rights. I shudder to think what they will do after replacing RBG.
You don't get to attach reasons or conditions to your vote. If you vote for Joe Biden, you are absolutely voting for the Democrats to continue unfettered their strategy of nominating neoliberal moderates with weak records on social issues (including, in this case, being a literal rapist) that are accustomed to discarding the concerns of marginalized people as soon as they're elected. You're showing them that that strategy works.There is plenty of woman and minorties(Hi!) calling out the absolute bullshit people like you are spewing because it puts all of us at risk.
Stop trying to dismiss peoples criticism as being liberal white males trying to talk down minorities. This isn't a fucking vote to suppport Democrats. It's to stop a sociopathic rapist anti EVERYTHING from getting another term.
Oh but please continue to throw away all human rights(POC, LGBT, Woman) so that you showed the world that only one rapist didnt win!
He more or less lost a path to the nomination on Super Tuesday and the weeks that followed. Barring Joe quitting or dying or being forced out, Bernie is running for a silver podium finish.Are there only 2 options right now? What happened to Bernie Sanders?