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Terminator: Dark Fate |OT| (Spoilers) No fate but what Jim & Tim make

Movie Information/Resources
Oct 25, 2017
5,443
The unknown future rolls toward us.
We face it 23rd October 2019 in the UK, and November 1st in USA.



Produced by: James Cameron, David Ellison
Directed by: Tim Miller (Deadpool, co-founder of Blur Studio)

Story by: James Cameron, Charles Eglee, Josh Friedman, David Goyer
Screenplay by: David Goyer, Justin Rhodes, Billy Ray
Music by: Junkie XL
A direct follow-up to Terminator 1 & 2
Rated R


SPOILER POLICY: This thread is spoiler friendly. If you want spoiler-free discussion, try the
review thread.
First post remains without spoilers for information.








Over two decades after the events of Terminator 2: Judgment Day, a new killing machine called the Rev-9 (Gabriel Luna) is sent from the future in order to terminate Dani Ramos (Natalia Reyes). An enhanced cyborg human (Mackenzie Davis), Sarah Connor, and another unlikely ally come to her aid in a new fight for the future.

James Cameron returns to the franchise for the first time in 27 years to develop the story for this direct sequel to Terminator 2. Linda Hamilton returns as well to finally reprise Sarah Connor. Arnold is always back. 🕶




Linda Hamilton as Sarah Connor.
Arnold Schwarzenegger as the T-800 Model 101.
Natalia Reyes as Dani Ramos.
Mackenzie Davis as Grace.
Gabriel Luna as the Rev-9.
Diego Boneta as Dani's brother Miguel.



Which Terminator movies should I have seen before this one?
Only Terminator 1 and Terminator 2. (Terminator 1 is free on youtube right now)​

What about the other sequels? How do they fit into the timeline? Should I see Terminators 3/4/5/SCC?
No. Those are not in this continuity and had no story involvement from Cameron. Jim Cameron calls those sequels a bad dream or an alternate timeline, whatever pleases you. They're not relevant. Dark Fate is effectively the new Terminator 3. No fate but what Jim and Tim make.​

Why does Arnold's T-800 look aged?
A T-800 infiltrator is a cybernetic organism. Living tissue over a metal endoskeleton. Flesh, skin, hair, blood, grown for the cyborg. Sweat, bad breath, everything.​
It's basically legitimate human meat on top. The skin ages, given time.​
What's the deal with this new terminator model?
The Rev-9 (presumably short for Revision 9, and a reference to Revelation 9) is a machine that utilizes both an endoskeleton and liquid metal simultaneously. These components can split into two figures and operate separately. One pure liquid metal (like a T1000), the other a bare endoskeleton.​

But what happened with August 29th 1997? No bombs?
Terminator 2 happened: "She intends to change the future." "The future, always so clear to me, has become like a black highway at night. We were in uncharted territory now... making up history as we went along." "The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves." "The unknown future rolls toward us."​

Where is John Connor?
He took off on his bike this morning. There was a guy here looking for him too. Big guy on a bike.​

Was Terminator Genisys a renaissance?

Were anyone's lights trashed? Did anyone go ahdadada like this in the background?
Ken Seng is a nice guy, no problemo.​








Predicted opening: ~$40m









Foreign language movie titles:
Exterminator of the Future: Dark Destiny​
Terminator: Shrouded Destiny​
Relentless Exterminator: Dark Destiny​
Terminator: Grim Fate​
Destroyer: Dark Destiny​
Terminator: New Fate​
Terminator: Black Destiny​




 
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Oct 28, 2017
8,480
It's Terminator so I'll go see it but my expectations are low. I just want another Terminator movie set in the future. One that looks at the future scenes from T1 and T2 and gives me a whole movie in that world.
 
Apr 19, 2018
1,455
Nice OT, OP. As for the movie, hope for the best, brace for the worst, I suppose. It's easy to feel pessimistic when we've been burned on so many of the sequles before, so hopefully it'll be different this time.

The Russian-language IMAX trailer is the most impressive look of the film I've seen yet. Aside from a good chunk of footage from the highway chase scene (which is looking quite good), the trailer portion of the video is really promising. (Maybe I'm just a sucker for the use of Brad Fiedel's Main Theme -- and this is the only trailer I've seen that utilizes it effectively):

 
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CaptainKashup

Member
May 10, 2018
1,420
Lots of French outlets are praising the score by Junkie XL and the fast-paced action-horror reminiscent of both T1 and T2.
I'm cautiously optimistic.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,480
The only Terminator movie I flat out hated was Genysis. T3 was actually pretty solid. It was fun, I enjoyed it a lot. It just didn't do much interesting, and just felt like it was trying to be Terminator 2, but worse. Salvation I enjoyed more than most. There are aspects of it I liked and aspects I disliked. I would have been interested in a sequel.
 

Bor Gullet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,630
All I ask is an entertaining movie. That's pretty much all you can hope for with a Terminator sequel at this point.
 

N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,144
Anyone think T-3000 was the next step in evolution?
Personal theory not canon facts
T-2000 is liquid because the magnetic field can’t extend to far so what ever it’s made of still has its particles close together.

T-3000 we’re entering gas/dust fluids that can separate themselves even further

T-4000 would be like a ghost. Literally gas at this point. A ghost terminator should be the next thing.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,480
Rewatched Terminator 1 and 2 in anticipation of this. God those movies are so fucking good, and the ending to T2 is just so satisfying.
 

RyougaSaotome

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,126
So I keep seeing a lot of folks asking "Where's John?" cuz we know Furlong is in the film.

Do people really think he's going to have a significant role in this? I assumed from the get-go that he's either gonna be there in quick flashback capacity or as some kind of end stinger bit. Either way, I never expected it to be any more than a brief cameo since they announced the his return.
 
Apr 19, 2018
1,455
Think we'll be getting a soundtrack release on account of the Europe release this week, or will it be the following week to coincide with the U.S. debut?

Really curious to hear what Holkenborg brings to the table for a Terminator score.
 

Noctis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,026
New York City
So I keep seeing a lot of folks asking "Where's John?" cuz we know Furlong is in the film.

Do people really think he's going to have a significant role in this? I assumed from the get-go that he's either gonna be there in quick flashback capacity or as some kind of end stinger bit. Either way, I never expected it to be any more than a brief cameo since they announced the his return.
We all know what they did to him
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,159
looking forward to it. no doubt in my mind it'll be the best outside of the 'canon' duology... but that isn't to say it'll be particularly good either

sadly i don't think there's appetite for more Terminator either way so even if it is a surprise honest to god decent movie i think this is the final hurrah (though they'll finagle some stupid reboot some years later, but i can't imagine hamilton/arnie/cameron being involved by then)
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,409
No, peak Cameron is lost in the sands of time. Be prepared for Jim for disavowing this immediately if it becomes a bomb.
I hold out faith that unlike Ridley Scott, Cameron still has that magic touch and Avatar was just him trying to spin too many plates at once.

I'm hoping this gives us a small taste of better winds.
 

Scullibundo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,185
You don't think Cameron coming back can help right the ship?

It doesn't feel like 3/4/Genysis. Maybe I'm being too hopeful but this one feels different.
The problem is that Cameron didn’t really ‘come back’ for this one. He is one of many people to have a story credit for sitting in on a few story meetings. But he didn’t touch the script itself and never visited set once.

So he never really came back. Cameron being producer is a far cry from him writing/directing a Terminator film.
 

TheHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,409
The problem is that Cameron didn’t really ‘come back’ for this one. He is one of many people to have a story credit for sitting in on a few story meetings. But he didn’t touch the script itself and never visited set once.

So he never really came back. Cameron being producer is a far cry from him writing/directing a Terminator film.
I was thinking him and Hamilton putting their names on this means it wouldn't be shlock.
 
OP
OP
VorpalNonsense
Oct 25, 2017
5,443
So I just got back from seeing a special preview of the movie. Alamo Drafthouse did a fakeout and instead of showing T2 as advertised they showed Dark Fate! (and we even got free tickets too because technically we didn't see what we came for).

I'll get to my thoughts in a moment.

Yooo awesome thread OP
Thanks mang

The problem is that Cameron didn’t really ‘come back’ for this one. He is one of many people to have a story credit for sitting in on a few story meetings. But he didn’t touch the script itself and never visited set once.

So he never really came back. Cameron being producer is a far cry from him writing/directing a Terminator film.
You clearly haven't listened to the interviews where he's talked about how deeply he was involved with the story on this one from early development, and was even rewriting some dialogue personally in the script that was later created from that story he (with help) developed.
He did say he never came on set because he didn't want to fuck with Tim's creative process (because it was his gig), and because he's too busy to babysit day to day activity. He let Tim film how he wanted to film and said that Tim is competent enough that he didn't have to worry about the footage. But then he did say he intended on getting involved again during editing.

So basically Jim led the charge on the story. Then other people took that story and made a full script out of it. Then Jim gave that a one over and tidied it up. Tim filmed it. Then Jim came back during editing to help it come together. He was with this all the way at the crucial points, just not the daily time consuming stuff because he's busy with Avatar.
 
Apr 19, 2018
1,455
So I just got back from seeing a special preview of the movie. Alamo Drafthouse did a fakeout and instead of showing T2 as advertised they showed Dark Fate! (and we even got free tickets too because technically we didn't see what we came for).

I'll get to my thoughts in a moment.
Please say some words about the music score. :) Does Junkie XL channel Brad Fiedel in any way? Is the Main Thene used at any point?
 
OP
OP
VorpalNonsense
Oct 25, 2017
5,443
Please say some words about the music score. :) Does Junkie XL channel Brad Fiedel in any way? Is the Main Thene used at any point?
The score does channel Fiedel at times. Not all the time. It's not an imitation, it's definitely its own thing. But it does. I wouldn't say it is in the same style, but it does take some inspiration that can be felt.
There is a lot of percussion and the Rev-9's little motif does feel very much in the same vein as Fiedel's stuff. There are also a couple musical callbacks.

The main theme is used. A couple times in small references, and at least one time a bit longer and more legitimate. And of course there is a version in the credits as well.
The score didn't blow me away but I did appreciate what Junkie did in some key moments. He did fine but I wouldn't tell people to rush out and buy the OST. It isn't as good as what Brad pulled off for T2.

However I think I will get it myself because I want to hear it in isolation to get a better feel for it. The movie moves so hard and fast that honestly I want to give it better attention than I was capable of giving during the movie.
 
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Apr 19, 2018
1,455
The score does channel Fiedel at times. Not all the time. It's not an imitation, it's definitely its own thing. But it does. I wouldn't say it is in the same style, but it does take some inspiration that can be felt.
There is a lot of percussion and the Rev-9's little motif does feel very much in the same vein as Fiedel's stuff. There are also a couple musical callbacks.

The main theme is used. A couple times in small references, and at least one time a bit longer and more legitimate. And of course there is a version in the credits as well.
The score didn't blow me away but I did appreciate what Junkie did in some key moments. He did fine but I wouldn't tell people to rush out and buy the OST.

However I think I will get it myself because I want to hear it in isolation to get a better feel for it. The movie moves so hard and fast that honestly I want to give it better attention than I was capable of giving during the movie.
Awesome, that's everything I expected (and wanted) to hear.

I assume Rev-9's motif was what could be heard during that IMAX trailer footage of the highway scene. It certainly sounds similar in tone to the droning soundscape of the T-1000's theme in T2.
 
OP
OP
VorpalNonsense
Oct 25, 2017
5,443
I think I can say confidently that this is the best terminator movie since T2.
Does it touch T2? Naw man, but we already knew it wouldn't. It's not perfect, definitely not T1/T2 level. But it does at least feel like a legitimate followup in the story. Not a single pair of star shaped stripper sunglasses in sight.

All I was hoping for was something better than 3-5. And I feel like I got that. And so I am contented.
The Rev-9 is vicious and unrelenting in a way that I haven't seen in a terminator movie since the T-1000. Gabriel was great.
Mackenzie surprised me too. I didn't expect much from her based on the trailers but in the movie she does really well. Her desperation and exasperation remind me very much of Kyle Reese.

The movie feels sort of like T1&T2 mashed together with a new coat of paint. Basically the same premise and similar players on the board starting up again. But that's kind of to be expected since we already knew going in that this was to serve as the setup for a new generation. That's sort of what these late sequels do. But in this case it serves as a return to form in order to give you a classic terminator experience. And that's a breath of fresh air after what we've been putting up with for years. Comparable to The Force Awakens but maybe not so on-the-nose about it.
 
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N.Domixis

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,144
I think I can say confidently that this is the best terminator movie since T2.
Does it touch T2? Naw man, but we already knew it wouldn't. T2 is untouchable. It's definitely not T2 level. But it does at least feel like a legitimate followup in the series. Not a single pair of star shaped stripper sunglasses in sight.

All I was hoping for was something better than 3-5. And I feel like I got that. And so I am contented.
The Rev-9 is vicious and unrelenting in a way that I haven't seen in a terminator movie since the T-1000. Gabriel was great.
Mackenzie surprised me too. I didn't expect much from her based on the trailers but in the movie she does really well. Her desperation and exasperation remind me very much of Kyle Reese.
Oh shit, now I’m even more hyped.
 

apstyl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
250
Went to the screening, and I was surprised at how much I liked it. There is one scene that I cannot WAIT for y'all to see. Its brutal and shocking, and looked very expensive. Overall, it feels like the creative team took a hard look at the state of technology and made a Terminator movie that is informed by our new nightmarish reality. If there are sequels, there is a lot of room for them to explore.
 

Noctis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,026
New York City
Went to the screening, and I was surprised at how much I liked it. There is one scene that I cannot WAIT for y'all to see. Its brutal and shocking, and looked very expensive. Overall, it feels like the creative team took a hard look at the state of technology and made a Terminator movie that is informed by our new nightmarish reality. If there are sequels, there is a lot of room for them to explore.
Let’s hope it’s successful enough so we can actually get the proposed trilogy.
 

Scullibundo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,185
So I just got back from seeing a special preview of the movie. Alamo Drafthouse did a fakeout and instead of showing T2 as advertised they showed Dark Fate! (and we even got free tickets too because technically we didn't see what we came for).

I'll get to my thoughts in a moment.



Thanks mang



You clearly haven't listened to the interviews where he's talked about how deeply he was involved with the story on this one from early development, and was even rewriting some dialogue personally in the script that was later created from that story he (with help) developed.
He did say he never came on set because he didn't want to fuck with Tim's creative process (because it was his gig), and because he's too busy to babysit day to day activity. He let Tim film how he wanted to film and said that Tim is competent enough that he didn't have to worry about the footage. But then he did say he intended on getting involved again during editing.

So basically Jim led the charge on the story. Then other people took that story and made a full script out of it. Then Jim gave that a one over and tidied it up. Tim filmed it. Then Jim came back during editing to help it come together. He was with this all the way at the crucial points, just not the daily time consuming stuff because he's busy with Avatar.
I’ve heard the PR interviews, but also recognise they’ve been milking Cameron’s name so know it’s exactly that - PR.

And Cameron ‘rewriting some dialogue personally’ was him sending last-minute dialogue suggestions AS THEY WERE SHOOTING THE SAME SCENES. The script was already locked and he was telling them to change the dialogue of scenes they were in the middle of filming on a shooting draft. That isn’t a good look lol.

What’s your source for Cameron being involved in editing the film?

Cameron didn’t ‘lead the charge’ on the story so much as suggest some ideas they should explore and talk about that fact in marketing a bunch of times. He is one of many with a story credit and none of many with a screenplay credit. None of that is promising.

Tim Miller is no James Cameron when it comes to directing and David Goyer is definitely no James Cameron when it comes to writing a script.

He had far, far less involvement with this than he did Alita - where you could already feel the huge loss of Cameron’s absence.
 
Apr 19, 2018
1,455
If there are sequels, there is a lot of room for them to explore.
apstyl and VorpalNonsense, fine impressions! This bit about sequels though: do either of you feel like Dark Fate ends in a way where, if sequels aren’t viable in the future, that it serves as a proper finale to the series? Or is there too much of a hook or cliffhanger where sequels are to be expected?
 
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OP
OP
VorpalNonsense
Oct 25, 2017
5,443
Went to the screening, and I was surprised at how much I liked it. There is one scene that I cannot WAIT for y'all to see. Its brutal and shocking, and looked very expensive. Overall, it feels like the creative team took a hard look at the state of technology and made a Terminator movie that is informed by our new nightmarish reality. If there are sequels, there is a lot of room for them to explore.
It was very well done. The CG in the trailers looked pretty rough but what I saw in the final movie all looked fairly acceptable. Not everything, but overall nothing too jarring. The scene you reference was very impressive.

apstyl and VorpalNonsense, fine impressions! This bit about sequels though: do either of you feel like Dark Fate ends in a way where, if sequels aren’t viable, that it serves as a proper finale to the series? Or is there too much of a hook or cliffhanger where sequels are to be expected?
I do feel like it ends at a point where I'd be okay if there weren't any more. It wraps up the story of the first 2 movies with finality, even though it does keep the ball rolling for potential future installments.

While there are certainly sequel setups regarding Dani's future, any dangling threads that originated in T1&T2 specifically are pretty much over.

I’ve heard the PR interviews, but also recognise they’ve been milking Cameron’s name so know it’s exactly that - PR.

And Cameron ‘rewriting some dialogue personally’ was him sending last-minute dialogue suggestions AS THEY WERE SHOOTING THE SAME SCENES. The script was already locked and he was telling them to change the dialogue of scenes they were in the middle of filming on a shooting draft. That isn’t a good look lol.

What’s your source for Cameron being involved in editing the film?

Cameron didn’t ‘lead the charge’ on the story so much as suggest some ideas they should explore and talk about that fact in marketing a bunch of times. He is one of many with a story credit and none of many with a screenplay credit. None of that is promising.

Tim Miller is no James Cameron when it comes to directing and David Goyer is definitely no James Cameron when it comes to writing a script.

He had far, far less involvement with this than he did Alita - where you could already feel the huge loss of Cameron’s absence.
Look if you want to ignore the man's actual words because you know better that's your prerogative and it's not my job to convince you nor do I have time to pour over all the interviews I've been watching for months, it doesn't matter to me what you choose to believe. Sure, PR is a thing and the "official" story isn't always true, but at the same time I'm not just going to be making up stories that I imagine are truthy enough to be true. Until demonstrated otherwise I'll believe what they claim. Carry on.
 
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Apr 19, 2018
1,455
I do feel like it ends at a point where I'd be okay if there weren't any more. It wraps up the story of the first 2 movies with finality, even though it does keep the ball rolling for potential future installments.
Again, good to hear. I've said this in another thread, but while I get a studio's desire to try and franchise-proof your movies, with the Terminator brand already in a perilous state, I would hope the filmmakers and their team's top priority would be to win back the fan base with a strong self-contained story ('self-contained' while working in conjunction with the first two movies), rather than conceptualizing a whole new set of films that may not even come to pass.

Give us a good movie with a great ending. If it does well, great, they can expand the story in the sequel. If it bombs, we won't have to deal with any lingering cliffhangers or plot threads that ultimately hurt the integrity of the film itself.
 

CaptainKashup

Member
May 10, 2018
1,420
I’ve heard the PR interviews, but also recognise they’ve been milking Cameron’s name so know it’s exactly that - PR.

And Cameron ‘rewriting some dialogue personally’ was him sending last-minute dialogue suggestions AS THEY WERE SHOOTING THE SAME SCENES. The script was already locked and he was telling them to change the dialogue of scenes they were in the middle of filming on a shooting draft. That isn’t a good look lol.

What’s your source for Cameron being involved in editing the film?

Cameron didn’t ‘lead the charge’ on the story so much as suggest some ideas they should explore and talk about that fact in marketing a bunch of times. He is one of many with a story credit and none of many with a screenplay credit. None of that is promising.

Tim Miller is no James Cameron when it comes to directing and David Goyer is definitely no James Cameron when it comes to writing a script.

He had far, far less involvement with this than he did Alita - where you could already feel the huge loss of Cameron’s absence.
You seem really hell-bent on shitting on this movie even though you haven't seen it ?
Don't you want to give it at least a chance ? Yeah, the previous ones were stinkers but that doesn't mean this one is. Have a little faith.
 

Scullibundo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,185
You seem really hell-bent on shitting on this movie even though you haven't seen it ?
Don't you want to give it at least a chance ? Yeah, the previous ones were stinkers but that doesn't mean this one is. Have a little faith.
I’m not hell bent on shitting on the film at all. I hope it’s good since I’m going to be paying money to see it and the original films are dear to me. I’m just pointing out the writing on the wall in terms of its production and disputing the erroneous notion that James Cameron played a very significant role in its production while directing 4 other films simultaneously and not receiving any significant creative credit.