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Terminator: Dark Fate |OT| (Spoilers) No fate but what Jim & Tim make

Tremorah

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,116
They made another Terminator movie, id say the best one since T2

Liked Grace and didnt mind Rev 9, Carl had good comedy lines that got a chuckle out of me, Sarah was very one note and bitter but played well

Action was fine sans the overusage of CGI

Dani as the leader of anything felt a bit funny, but then again John Connor hasnt worked as a future leader since flashbacks in T2

A solid 7/10 and i hope they dont make another one
 
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Ensoul

Member
Oct 27, 2017
537
Well I'm a huge Terminator fan and I just got done seeing it and I really enjoyed it. Not on par with the first two course but was way better than anything after T2.

I said this is going too bomb but I was hoping I was wrong with James Cameron back in the mix.

The reality is no one cares about this franchise anymore unfortunately. It's a shame because I wanted this to continue.
 

Shadow-Link

Member
Oct 27, 2017
747
I just saw the movie and there is something I don't understand (not sure if it has already been answered).

If Sarah stopped judgement day, how did Skynet send a Terminator to 1998 and kept sending then for 20 years?
 

Ocean Bones

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,406
I just wish the termination of John took a little longer than 15 seconds. 10 or 15 minutes at least.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,693
Toronto, ON
I didn't think the movie was terrible. Some solid action scenes and Grace was awesome. Great character with a lot of potential that was only half-explored. Sarah was great as well, and Linda Hamilton really brought it and she looked improbably amazing for a person in her 60s.

My major critiques:

-- Feels too much like a retread of the older films...really just keeps going over the same old ground, even repeating action beats (tractor on the highway in DF/big rig chase in T2) and the same pacing, the same imagery, the same lines of dialogue that we've seen again and again from the series. Very safe overall.

-- Legion not being Skynet is just a wasted twist if Legion develops identical terminator bots (even the exact same hunter killer jets) and has the exact same plan to send terminators back in time to kill their rival. It's just a rebranding for the exact same thing.

-- More than anything, Dani was a dud. The actress grew progressively worse as the film went on, and by the end, I couldn't believe for a second that she would lead humanity. T2 was savvy in that yeah, John was a snotty little shit, but the idea was he had the potential to become the scarred bad-ass who would lead humanity. With Dani, we're supposed to believe that she'll be this great leader in just a couple of years...I didn't buy it at all. The flash forward scene where she convinces these thieves to back off and rescues a young Grace was one of the worst scenes in the film. She should have been aged up by at least 15 to 20 years, that would have helped a bit.
 

8byte

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,001
Kansas
I just saw the movie and there is something I don't understand (not sure if it has already been answered).

If Sarah stopped judgement day, how did Skynet send a Terminator to 1998 and kept sending then for 20 years?
I mean. They were all sent from the same point in time to different periods of time as a safety net for Skynet.
 

Shadow-Link

Member
Oct 27, 2017
747
I mean. They were all sent from the same point in time to different periods of time as a safety net for Skynet.
But if they were sent from the same point in time, how do you explain the T-1000? If that was the case, they all should have been T-800 models.

Besides, the point of Skynet was to stop John from creating the resistance and winning the war, but the movie states that they stopped judgement day, so Skynet never existed and there was no war.

I don't know, Legion's existence makes sense, but the rest doesn't.
 

TheRealCanadianBros

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
915
But if they were sent from the same point in time, how do you explain the T-1000? If that was the case, they all should have been T-800 models.

Besides, the point of Skynet was to stop John from creating the resistance and winning the war, but the movie states that they stopped judgement day, so Skynet never existed and there was no war.

I don't know, Legion's existence makes sense, but the rest doesn't.
 

8byte

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,001
Kansas
But if they were sent from the same point in time, how do you explain the T-1000? If that was the case, they all should have been T-800 models.

Besides, the point of Skynet was to stop John from creating the resistance and winning the war, but the movie states that they stopped judgement day, so Skynet never existed and there was no war.

I don't know, Legion's existence makes sense, but the rest doesn't.
At point A in time, Skynet sends a few T-800s to various points in time to hunt John Connor.

At point B in time, SkyNet realizes that John hasn’t disappeared / been killed, so they send the new T-1000 back to give it another go.

It’s a sci fi movie with time travel. It’s probably best to not overthink it, because time travel will literally never make sense.
 

TheRealCanadianBros

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
915

“Skynet didn’t know when it would be able to kill John or which one would be successful,” Miller said. “So you just kind of cover the spread [and] fire all these slow bullets, hoping that one of them would hit.” Which, of course, one did, in 1998. One that (because of how young he appeared) Miller thinks had only been there a few years, so the Carl Terminator arrived after the events of Terminator 2.

And, of course, if you’re thinking “Skynet was gone, how could it still be sending back Terminators?” That’s smart thinking. But, as per Miller’s statement, it sent Terminators back to various times before it was destroyed, they just happened to arrive after. Time travel!
 

Itsuki

Member
Oct 26, 2017
168
Went to watch the movie yesterday. It was ok but I think they could have handed a lot of things better
like John getting killed at the start of the film. Didn’t like how he got killed so soon. Would have preferred something like John and Sarah killing terminators and John getting killed while trying to save Sarah and/or Dani or John and Sarah becoming her mentor. Future scenes were really bad.
.
CG also felt cheap. also need a Carl spinoff!
Cinema was full of people but that might be because the movie came out this week in Japan.
 
Oct 2, 2018
2,756
Went to watch the movie yesterday. It was ok but I think they could have handed a lot of things better
like John getting killed at the start of the film. Didn’t like how he got killed so soon. Would have preferred something like John and Sarah killing terminators and John getting killed while trying to save Sarah and/or Dani or John and Sarah becoming her mentor. Future scenes were really bad.
.
CG also felt cheap. also need a Carl spinoff!
Cinema was full of people but that might be because the movie came out this week in Japan.

this is the spoilers thread. Them killing off John ASAP allowed the show to go on with the rest of the show. It’s suddenness also creates a visceral impact.
 

Bor Gullet

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,643
Time travel in the Terminator movies is full of head inducing inconsistencies.

Best not to think about it too hard.
 

Donald Draper

Banned
Feb 2, 2019
2,361
What a boring waste of time this film was. Just dull as fuck and retreading the same ground. Exposition dump > chase scene > exposition dump repeat until movie is over. I dont know I'd this is the worst film I've seen this year, but it's the first that made mr want to walk out due to sheer boredom.

And I'm not one to usually nitpick about stuff like this but christ, at the end the fucking terminator is literally choking Dani. All it has to do is squeeze its hand and she's dead. Why would a killing machine be choking her instead of just closing its hand and crushing her neck.
 

MajorBritten

Member
Nov 2, 2017
743
Saw this last night and thought it was terrible, this is to T2 what Alien 3 was to Aliens, killing off the main child protagonist of the previous film in the first few minutes for shock value and making the previous two terminator films pointless. Sarah Connor was completely wasted in this film, instead of exploring her grief shes instead just an angry, kick ass grandma that’s completely unlikable. Arnie seemed to be half asleep in this and Grace was just aggressive most of the time for no real reason.

For me the biggest problem is that the film not only makes what happened in the previous two movies irrelevant but it adds another judgement day that remains completely unresolved by the end of this. In the originals Skynet was losing the war and as a last resort it sent the terminator back to kill off the resistance leader, if Connor survives it would be the end of Skynet. In this new future, Legion doesn’t seem to be losing the war and the resistance movement are just struggling to survive rather than trying to defeat the machines. So even though Dani survives in this it doesnt stop judgement day 2 from happening and Legion doesn’t get defeated in the future. They probably left all that open to be resolved in the two films they had planned after this, which probably wont happen now after how this performed.
 

MajorBritten

Member
Nov 2, 2017
743
But if they were sent from the same point in time, how do you explain the T-1000? If that was the case, they all should have been T-800 models.

Besides, the point of Skynet was to stop John from creating the resistance and winning the war, but the movie states that they stopped judgement day, so Skynet never existed and there was no war.

I don't know, Legion's existence makes sense, but the rest doesn't.
Well thats a potential plot-hole from T2. As soon as they prevented Skynet from existing John Connor should also never have existed as Reese would never have been sent back in time and gotten Sarah pregnant.
 

DiipuSurotu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,619
France
But if they were sent from the same point in time, how do you explain the T-1000? If that was the case, they all should have been T-800 models.

Besides, the point of Skynet was to stop John from creating the resistance and winning the war, but the movie states that they stopped judgement day, so Skynet never existed and there was no war.

I don't know, Legion's existence makes sense, but the rest doesn't.
What the problem with the T-1000? It was a prototype, it wasn't mass-produced or anything. Skynet sent one T-1000 because it only had one available. It had many T-800s on the other hand. I don't see the plothole?
 
Oct 28, 2017
16,752
I watched T3 today for the second time in my life. It's sort of the Batman Forever film of the Terminator franchise. It leans into comedy but doesn't go full Batman and Robin. Boob joke, crotch grab, talk to the hand, yadda yadda yadda. Arnie breaks out his catchphrases for no reason other than fan service. There's no emotional core to this film and it feels soulless as a result. Just a corporate money grab using a popular franchise.

It made me appreciate Dark Fate more though. It's an inferior retread but at least they recognized that maybe the characters do matter just as much as the neat CGI.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,498
the Netherlands

“Skynet didn’t know when it would be able to kill John or which one would be successful,” Miller said. “So you just kind of cover the spread [and] fire all these slow bullets, hoping that one of them would hit.” Which, of course, one did, in 1998. One that (because of how young he appeared) Miller thinks had only been there a few years, so the Carl Terminator arrived after the events of Terminator 2.

And, of course, if you’re thinking “Skynet was gone, how could it still be sending back Terminators?” That’s smart thinking. But, as per Miller’s statement, it sent Terminators back to various times before it was destroyed, they just happened to arrive after. Time travel!
Now Miller just needs to give us a good explanation as to why Carl was aware of other future arrivals while the protector T-800 from T2 and the Resistance which send him back were completely oblivious to the fact that Skynet send more Terminators back than just the T-800 from T1 and T-1000 from T2.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,150
T-101 isn't just a machine it is a real dynamic AI. It is sent back with a different mission than the mission the T-101s are usually assigned. It was sent back with the mission to assassinate John, not to eradicate humanity. Once that was done it had no other mission and was free to do whatever it wanted. And so it did what any intelligent creature would; it observed, learned, and found purpose.
Is no T-101.

T-800s are the Terminator endoskeletons, Model 101 is the Human model that looks like Arnold.
 

DiipuSurotu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,619
France
Now Miller just needs to give us a good explanation as to why Carl was aware of other future arrivals while the protector T-800 from T2 and the Resistance which send him back were completely oblivious to the fact that Skynet send more Terminators back than just the T-800 from T1 and T-1000 from T2.
He literally explains it in the article you quoted. Did you read it?
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,150

“Skynet didn’t know when it would be able to kill John or which one would be successful,” Miller said. “So you just kind of cover the spread [and] fire all these slow bullets, hoping that one of them would hit.” Which, of course, one did, in 1998. One that (because of how young he appeared) Miller thinks had only been there a few years, so the Carl Terminator arrived after the events of Terminator 2.

And, of course, if you’re thinking “Skynet was gone, how could it still be sending back Terminators?” That’s smart thinking. But, as per Miller’s statement, it sent Terminators back to various times before it was destroyed, they just happened to arrive after. Time travel!
So why didn't Future John send back protectors like he did for T1+2? Did he send back Kyle Reese, the T-800, then decide "Eh fuck it this is too much work".
 

ExKage

Member
Sep 9, 2019
376
I went today and enjoyed it far more than I enjoyed any of the movies after T2. I feel like any inconsistencies from time travel shenanigans are sort of just shit that happens with time travel. I had no issues with the casting. I enjoyed Mackenzie Davis' Grace and Natalia Reyes' Dani. Cynical and bitter Sarah while understandable definitely earned the bitch title.
 
Oct 2, 2018
2,756
So why didn't Future John send back protectors like he did for T1+2? Did he send back Kyle Reese, the T-800, then decide "Eh fuck it this is too much work".
lets be serious here. Why don’t they just send a terminator back to kill Sarah Connor as a baby or even one of her grand parents in the 70s. You can’t over think this shit
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,150
lets be serious here. Why don’t they just send a terminator back to kill Sarah Connor as a baby or even one of her grand parents in the 70s. You can’t over think this shit
Skynet cannot do that because it needs then events of T1 to happen so ensure its creation. This is why sending only two back made sense, the first which it knew would fail but lead to its creation, the second to actually kill John.


If the writers gonna change this then they should have answered why John didn't do as in T1+2 and send help back. Their excuse for Carl existing is bad and creates a large plot hole making it worse.

Also, who pulled the chip out of Carl's head and put it back in so he could learn?
 

CaptSpaulding

Banned
Jul 13, 2019
393
What a boring waste of time this film was. Just dull as fuck and retreading the same ground. Exposition dump > chase scene > exposition dump repeat until movie is over. I dont know I'd this is the worst film I've seen this year, but it's the first that made mr want to walk out due to sheer boredom.

And I'm not one to usually nitpick about stuff like this but christ, at the end the fucking terminator is literally choking Dani. All it has to do is squeeze its hand and she's dead. Why would a killing machine be choking her instead of just closing its hand and crushing her neck.
Maybe because it was just crushed in a huge spinny thingamajig? It looked like it could barely walk and was on its last ounce of strength.

Anyway i didnt have much issue with the action in this film. I think the main problem was the Rev9 just didnt feel as dangerous when u knew it was a 3 v 1 and sometimes it felt like Arnie could have taken him out by himself.
 

AndreGX

GameXplain
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
1,489
San Francisco
It's in the Director's Cut, which is the 'true' version of the movie.
It's not the Director's Cut, it's the Special Edition.

The theatrical cut is the Director's Cut.

Edit: To be fair to you, I was just reading an article about the Special Edition and apparently Amazon does "erroneously" refer to it as a Director's Cut, which may be where the misunderstanding has come from
 
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Pyccko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,102
they should just make a terminator movie about what the robots do after they kill every human on earth
 

TheRealCanadianBros

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
915
So why didn't Future John send back protectors like he did for T1+2? Did he send back Kyle Reese, the T-800, then decide "Eh fuck it this is too much work".
T2 is when the franchise starts to destroy what was established in T1. The TDE literally takes up "all the energy in the world" or whatever Cameron said in order to operate but there was just enough juice left to send Kyle through. The Resistance destroys the TDE afterwards. No one goes back and no one is going home. T2 comes around and says: nah we need another movie. There was enough energy to send back Kyle and the re-programmed T-800.

To answer your question: Perhaps when the Resistance sent back Reese and the T-800, nothing else could go through, there was no energy left after the amount that SkyNet used to send back multiple Terminators. Again, Terminator 2 breaks the world that Cameron set up in T1. TDF follows the logic that T2 established.


Also, who pulled the chip out of Carl's head and put it back in so he could learn?
No one pulled the chip out of Carl's head. That is non-canon. The T-800s have the capacity to learn via human interaction. You see this in T1, you see it in T2 with Uncle Bob and you see where the natural conclusion of Uncle Bob's arc would go with Carl. Cameron took that scene out because the movie was too long and scenes had to go, that was one of them. Arnold fought to keep it in and I'm glad they didn't. It gives "I know now why you cry" more impact because Uncle Bob surpassed his programming.

lets be serious here. Why don’t they just send a terminator back to kill Sarah Connor as a baby or even one of her grand parents in the 70s. You can’t over think this shit
Records were lost in the war, Kyle states this while being interrogated at the police station in T1. I would make more sense for Legion to send a Rev-9 after Dani as a baby because of when she was born/digital data footprint/records would be intact. Legion knew to send the Rev-9 right to her doorstep.
 
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Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,448
Saw the movie again last night, walked away from it feeling not much different about it, but not having to digest it all I came away picking up on some things I really like.

Despite being called Dark Fate its a rather optimistic movie. While seeing John die is certainly a gut punch to both us and Sarah, I do appreciate the message of the movie is that it's not John who will save the human race, it's really Sarah. John only led mankind to victory because he knew he could and she prepared him since he was a kid. T2 isn't irrelevant because John did stop Skynet and Judgement Day. But you can't stop progress and a new machine did rise to take it's place, but that doesn't negate the nearly 30 years of life John was able to grant everyone.

Dani is only going to lead mankind to victory again, because of Sarah Connor training her. The end of them riding off into the sunset ready to prepare for the war with the machines, and presumably try and stop Legion from taking over says that this isn't a battle you can win, but you must always fight. There will always be this loop of events, and every time Sarah Connor or her protégé will be there to buy man more time from it's doom at the hands of the machines.

There's also some beautiful symmetry in how Carl takes her son from her, but also grants her a daughter by the end of the film, restoring Sarah the best he can and allowing the legacy of what would be John Connor to live.

All this is followed up by that new rendition of the new upbeat Terminator theme mixed with the latino instruments to show there is hope with Dani now in the fold is an excellent end.


That said, I think the film needed some more character moments, especially with Carl and it sounds like the first assembly cut of the movie had an extra 50 minutes. Hopefully we get an extended edition with Cameron's clout.

I've also decided where I come down on this and T3. T3 is a pretty great bookend to a trilogy, where this is the start of a new trilogy. This is a great next step in the series, but T3 is a better conclusion to it. It's a shame we won't get to see more of this new spinoff trilogy.
 

TheRealCanadianBros

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
915
it's not John who will save the human race, it's really Sarah. John only led mankind to victory because he knew he could and she prepared him since he was a kid.

Dani is only going to lead mankind to victory again, because of Sarah Connor training her.

There's also some beautiful symmetry in how Carl takes her son from her, but also grants her a daughter by the end of the film, restoring Sarah the best he can and allowing the legacy of what would be John Connor to live.
100% correcto. Sarah was always the hero, the mother of the future.

I also agree that the movie would have benefited from more character moments, both for Grace and Dani...I would love to have seen more with Carl, but not if it were to undercut the tone of the cabin scene with Sarah losing her shit. Apparently there was more humour during those moments and I don't think it would have gelled well with Sarah's emotional breakdown and the "not remembering his face" moment. I would still like to see that 50 minutes of additional footage...so I hope the Blu ray comes with it all. I wouldn't mind a spin-off book/comics that show Sarah hunting the other scattershot terminators and glimpses into Carl's evolution, the aftermath of John's death, etc.
 
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VorpalNonsense
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
That said, I think the film needed some more character moments, especially with Carl and it sounds like the first assembly cut of the movie had an extra 50 minutes. Hopefully we get an extended edition with Cameron's clout.
I've really got my fingers crossed for this one. If Terminator Salvation got an extended cut, this could too.
Then again all the cut footage could be bad jokes and filler.
But I'd like to find out.
 

lake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
908
Did you completely miss the last action setpiece which could have come out of something like The avengers or Superman? ;) Almost nothing was practical in that setpiece and it really took me out of the movie.
Damn, yeah. My predominant memory of the film now is that awful parachuting SUV into the water sequence. The airplane sequence before it had already spent my goodwill so I hated this subsequent CGI time waster.
 

JaseC64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,556
Strong Island NY
I saw this movie last night and I must say this was the best T3 there is and will get. If this is the last T movie, I'm ok with it but would like so more info on the alternative future that came from the T2 result.

Now my question is how did the new future timeline tattoo Grace with the T800's location if that dude is from alternative future that was not part of that "new" future? Like those guys would have no knowledge of the T800 because Skynet doesn't exist and Legion only makes "Rev" terminators or something?

I will say that Dani was ok in the "present" scenes but I dont buy her being the future leader due to that scene where she saves Grace. Like they didnt age her or nothing. I wish they would have shown a battle hardened leader if that makes sense.

I was more interested in the scene where Grace saves an obviously hurt General Dani. I kinda wanted to see more of that stuff. I guess it would have given up that she was the future leader but it wasn't really a shocker. That 'twist' was seen coming a mile away.

Also is kinda odd that Sarah is not even known in the alt future. You would think she was still considered a legend of sorts in any alt future. As you can see at the end, she is the one that get Dani ready for what's to come.
 
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VorpalNonsense
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
I don't know the original source of this image (just found it floating around social media) but if you're a fan of battle damage then it's a treat.
Looks to be Carl in his final battle damaged form.

 

Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,448
That is super grizzly, love it. I wish we got to see more of Carl and his battle damage in the film. He looks great there