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Snagret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,763
This, tbh.

Not everyone who has had different experiences or disagrees with your opinion is some awful person.
No, but someone's opinion can still be awful and it can still rightly be criticized. If you don't want that criticism or you want to articulate a more nuanced argument then maybe he should reconsider Twitter as his platform for expressing this specific point.

People are having strong responses to his phrasing because his phrasing because his phrasing is poor and irresponsible and muddies the idea he's trying to get across and tbh he really just shouldn't even be bringing same-sex parenting into it at all, and saying "yeah sure same-sex parents are great" doesn't do much to cushion what he seems to be repeatedly following up with which is "but a child is still better off with a mommy and daddy". It's ignorant and shows a real lack of imagination on Terry's part on this issue.

I think the work he's done with the #metoo movement has been incredible and brave (and for the record, I think that tweet from the woman claiming he co-opted the movement for his own personal gain is absolutely cruel and uncalled for), but on this issue I think he needs to rethink his approach if his goal is to push men to be better fathers. He can make that point without all this other....stuff that he's bringing to the discussion. He needs to take a step back and do some serious self-reflection about where he might be pulling some of this rhetoric from and how it might be rooted in the same toxic masculinity he often aims to take a stance against.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
5,861
Mount Airy, MD
People are seriously angry at the opinion that it's *better* --- not *necessary* -- to have parenting from two genders? Isn't the whole point of gender that there are real differences, and wouldn't it obviously be the case that it's better (not necessary) to get both kinds of parenting?

The thing is, you *do* get "both kinds", because we've observed that happens on its own, even in same-sex parenting situations. It's not a gender thing, seemingly, but rather a result of two-person parenting that each tend to take one "traditional" role.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
Maybe it's poorly worded, but all I think he's saying is that a person should not be robbed of having both paternal and maternal influences on development—no matter where it comes from.

It's an experience thing, and the argument is that it makes you a more rounded person.

Like traveling vs staying in the same town your whole life. I dunno.
Its definitely poorly worded but I do think that's what he's getting at and I'd agree in general.

It is possible to get the paternal influences from anywhere but considering his age and how family dynamics were vastly gendered when he was growing up, I'd say the likelihood of not gaining certain wisdoms is increased if you didnt have a father figure in your home. And for many black men, because paternal influences can indeed come from anywhere, they're unfortunately coming from folks on the street who don't have any love. This is still happening today.

People can't just ignore the racial context that sparked this situation.
 

Mib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
654
The analogy he used was terrible and he gets overly defensive afterwards, but what he actually said doesn't sound controversial, at all. He saying that children are better off when they have remodels and guides of both genders, and while those role models DON'T have to be their parents, cis-hetero parents have a leg up in that regard by virtue of being a cis-hetero couple.

I'm not seeing anything controversial in that. I can't speak for the word, or all black people, but this opinion is standard within the black communities that I've known. As someone raised by a single mother, even with an out-of-state dad I'm on good terms with and spoke to a lot, black male mentors were pushed onto me constantly. To this day, as a grown adult, they still get pushed onto me at the slightest sign of trouble. This belief is standard and rarely challenged, so even if I found it repugnant, I wouldn't turn on him for holding it.

Even the analogy itself, while a horrible stand-alone tweet, is the equivalent response to a hyperbolic comment. Unless you think Terry Cruise suddenly did a 180 and that his years long push for better male role models and more open female dialogue is phobic, I don't see the problem. They're the same core idea at the end of the day.
 

goodsines

Member
Oct 28, 2017
182
Colorado
Really disappointing to hear this point of view from him. I was thinking given his positions on other things he may be open minded enough for dialogue on this particular stupid stance, but the doubling down he's been doing on twitter kinda points to the opposite.
 

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
Its definitely poorly worded but I do think that's what he's getting at and I'd agree in general.

It is possible to get the paternal influences from anywhere but considering his age and how family dynamics were vastly gendered when he was growing up, I'd say the likelihood of not gaining certain wisdoms is increased if you didnt have a father figure in your home. And for many black men, because paternal influences can indeed come from anywhere, they're unfortunately coming from folks on the street who don't have any love. This is still happening today.

People can't just ignore the racial context that sparked this situation.

Yeah there's more under the surface that ought to be factored into the discussion.
 

Krakatoa

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,092
That's his opinion and I'm fine with it, Although I don't agree with him. I'd rather people be honest than a hypocrite.

Well, at least Crackdown was reviewed before this news, it could have really hurt the score :)
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,033
People are seriously angry at the opinion that it's *better* --- not *necessary* -- to have parenting from two genders? Isn't the whole point of gender that there are real differences, and wouldn't it obviously be the case that it's better (not necessary) to get both kinds of parenting?

Data doesn't reflect that though. Good paternal and maternal role models are good for children. Same-sex couples can still have these things. The parents fall into those roles even if they aren't the traditional gender. The children of same-sex couples aren't any worse off than heterosexual couples. That's the problem people have with his thinking and the "severely malnourished" tweet was pretty disgusting. I hope he can learn from this but I don't know...His transphobic comments were also terrible.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,337
America
Is Terry thinking everybody contradicting him is diminishing his importance as a father? Why is he doubling down? Is this a core part of his christian beliefs? If so, this is a great case study of how religion can do pernicious harm.

Like, I never thought Crews was the brightest tool in the shed, but his current behavior is definitely not smart at all.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,283
Such a shallow thought...

Suppose one of your parents died early?

Suppose one of them abandoned the family?

Are all those people malnourished? I know alot of people who are actually alot stronger because if it.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,998
Yeah - and the sad thing is people rarely care when transphobia happens. The amount of threads made for when celebrities are blatantly homophobic are way higher than the amount of threads for transphobia (and let me tell you - those incidents are pretty damn frequent, especially in the UK and US). I'm seeing people on twitter that leftists respect casually supporting transphobic comedians, politicians, and writers and then they get snippy when they get called out on it. Barely anyone here even talks about the military ban any more. It feels so lovely being dehumanised! Transphobia is the most/only acceptable hatred for a lot of people, and that sucks.

I'm with you. My feelings echo your post 100%. I feel awful sometimes but I keep chugging along because I enjoy my gender and my life.
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
5,746
Such a shallow thought...

Suppose one of your parents died early?

Suppose one of them abandoned the family?

Are all those people malnourished? I know alot of people who are actually alot stronger because if it.
I was raised by a single parent, I'm sure there were things lacking in my upbringing that would have been different if there was a father figure there. It isn't a shallow thing to say, the term malnourished is a bad way to phrase it though.
 

EndlessNever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,890
What an absolute ballbag of the highest order. He can fuck off, done with him after this shit.

You don't say anything like that without fully believing in it.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
I grew up malnourished with a single parent.

For me, like literally for the first part of my childhood.

For fucks sake, Terry. Fuck outta here with that men hold men accountable shit. Everyone is a shitbag...

This is stupid, Terry can be correct and genuine when he wants men to hold men accountable but incorrect or even insincere about same-sex parenting. Yes, everyone is a shitbag, stop judging people based on single episodes of poor judgement or bad actions and judge them based on the totality of their character.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,283
I was raised by a single parent, I'm sure there were things lacking in my upbringing that would have been different if there was a father figure there. It isn't a shallow thing to say, the term malnourished is a bad way to phrase it though.

I understand you feeling that way but I don't believe you should feel penalized for a parents poor decision or an unfortunate event.

You know what I'm saying? Everyone has a different life and sometimes good people get bad breaks. I don't believe anyone is lesser by default based on your family status during your upbringing.

I'm sure those things you felt that you missed out by not having a father, you learned from someone else.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
I mean I get what he is saying coming from the black perspective.

But you can't extend your own personal experience out to everyone.

That said, everyone seems to do some dumb shit on twitter. I wonder when the benefit is outweighed by the harm it can do to your reputation via a really shitty tweet.
 

Driggonny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,170
It's disappointing that he's using the exact kind of rhetoric used to deny gay people the right to marry and adopt children. He's definitely one of those people I would have given the benefit of the doubt to if it was just a one off comment, but he's just been tweeting nonstop without understanding the issue with his language.

Honestly, I think I would've been better off if I didn't have my abusive and alcoholic father in my life
 

MrH

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,995
I grew up without a Dad and always felt I missed out so I can understand what he's trying to say.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
I understand you feeling that way but I don't believe you should feel penalized for a parents poor decision or an unfortunate event.

You know what I'm saying? Everyone has a different life and sometimes good people get bad breaks. I don't believe anyone is lesser by default based on your family status during your upbringing.

I'm sure those things you felt that you missed out by not having a father, you learned from someone else.

For sure, I mean... my mother did her damn best raising us kids in a single parent household and I appreciate her sacrifices everyday but there's only so much an overworked single parent can do emotionally between 4 kids who came from an abusive household. We all sought parental emotional support from other... less than stellar people at points in our upbringing because of the lack at home.

We're all fine now of course, but there IS something missing, and children/teens aren't always the best at putting their faith in the correct adults in order to find that missing piece.
 

Darknight34

Banned
Apr 29, 2018
210
I understand you feeling that way but I don't believe you should feel penalized for a parents poor decision or an unfortunate event.

You know what I'm saying? Everyone has a different life and sometimes good people get bad breaks. I don't believe anyone is lesser by default based on your family status during your upbringing.

I'm sure those things you felt that you missed out by not having a father, you learned from someone else.
Nobody is worth less because of their parents.. But a parent and the vital role they play doesn't get magically replaced.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,033
I was raised by a single parent, I'm sure there were things lacking in my upbringing that would have been different if there was a father figure there. It isn't a shallow thing to say, the term malnourished is a bad way to phrase it though.

I think the key here is that the good father figure can be someone of the opposite gender. It doesn't actually have to be a man. Hell, I grew up with both parents and didn't have a good father figure. Simply having a father doesn't make anything better, unfortunately.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,405
That's a yike from me, Terry. And that "I'm-sorry-you-don't-understand-me" styled apology is multiple yikes.

Don't be a bigot. Do better.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,106
The malnourished comment is all kinds of fucked up.

Kids need love and adults that set good examples. That love and those examples should ideally come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and styles. That can come from parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents, teachers, friends of the family, neighbors, etc. Ideally anyone can and should be there for a developing child.

The conversation is an odd one because I think when you're used to trying to talk in order to encourage fathers to stick around because that might be a big issue, then everything is framed in this "they need a father" narrative which may be what shitty fathers need to hear but it ain't what everyone needs or what everyone needs to hear. So Obama and Crews and such are stuck in that sort of way of phrasing things.

It's also an odd conversation because in a way of fucking course people without a father will be adversely affected in some way in a patriarchal society. But to blame the couple or person raising that child is to blame the victim. A single mom may not be as ideal but not because she can't be the strongest most loving ever but because she can't make as much and the country and economy is unfortunately designed around two people with little help. Same could be said about an LGBTQ couple raising a child. Could be the best parents ever but society still has prejudice against them and anything you do to a parent is done to a child in a roundabout way.

The goal shouldn't be to say "oh you're not ideal because our society sucks," it should be to break those barriers, uplift parents of all kinds, and get more people to help out from the broader base of people that know the children.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
I was raised by a straight couple and both managed to be shit in their own way. I'd much rather have had a same sex couple that cared about doing a good job of it. Or even a single parent that had any love to give tbh.

Crews is being a dumbass, and not an endearing one.
 

aisback

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,741
I can kinda see what's hes trying to say.

But it just sounds ignorant when he tried to say it.

I wouldn't say what he said but I will say having a father figure in life can help.