This is basically me, Tesla is currently the only EV I'd consider because they're the only real performance EV at a price I can afford.
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Tesla is now worth more than GM and Ford combined
- Thread starter Kieli
- Start date
your joking right? Audi BMW and Mercedes are all direct competitors in the luxury market.
I'm just one example, but I'll chime in.
I can afford a Tesla Model 3 and I'm getting one. That said, I would have never bought an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc.I have a 2006 Corolla with 200,000 miles on it and my wife drives a Crosstrek.
I went with Tesla because of features + environmental responsibility. I can afford an ev, so I feel like I should buy one. There are many that can't yet and that's totally understandable, but I can.
So I don't know what target market I fit into. I certainly wasn't going to be a luxury car purchaser. If anything Subaru or Toyota lost a purchase.
I can afford a Tesla Model 3 and I'm getting one. That said, I would have never bought an Audi, BMW, Mercedes, etc.I have a 2006 Corolla with 200,000 miles on it and my wife drives a Crosstrek.
I went with Tesla because of features + environmental responsibility. I can afford an ev, so I feel like I should buy one. There are many that can't yet and that's totally understandable, but I can.
So I don't know what target market I fit into. I certainly wasn't going to be a luxury car purchaser. If anything Subaru or Toyota lost a purchase.
Well, if you're talking about the cadillac cimarron, then sure, but that was already a bad car to begin with, just like everything else GM, and other American companies were making at the time.
It mostly comes down to me not liking Tesla's styling, mostly the interior. I hate how the model 3 has everything on the center tablet. I've always disliked when cars had center mounted gauges because its annoying to read. The model 3 does this, while also making every control on a touch screen, another thing I don't like. I want physical buttons so I can use them without having to look at them. This problem isn't exclusive to Tesla, its just they happen to also do it and its one thing that would ever keep my from owning one. None of the other benefits matter to me because I don't like the interior. At least the model S and I think the model X has a cluster in front of the driver, but I still don't want all the controls on a touch screen.
As for what I prefer, at the high end I'd get a Jaguar I-Pace over a model S or X because I think the interior is a nice place to be. But that's the only rival I've actually had a chance to experience. As for a model 3 rival, I've only been in a leaf, but wouldn't get one because of battery cooling. I've been in a regular golf, so I know what the egolf is like, but it also has the same battery cooling problem that leaf's have. I do like the fiat 500e because I like the normal fiat 500, but they don't make it anymore. So really, none of the cheaper electric cars interest me at all. I like the look of the Honda E, but they're not selling it in the US.
No I'm not joking. They're competitors but Audi is a competitor in the same way Lexus is in the luxury market.
Audi have half the sales of both BMW and Mercedes, both have far more brand loyalty than Audi. Audi has significantly improved over the last few years in their packages and are catching up, they have arguably the better interiors and electronics these days but mechanically they can't compete with Mercedes and BMW given their platform is largely the VW base with candy.
Audi deservedly has a reputation for being soulless. You don't get too many people going from owning a Mercedes or BMW then going to an Audi. Audi simply doesn't have the passionate customer base that those brands have, Tesla has that over Audi as well.
TSLA shot up to $574 / share this morning. New record high for the stock, again.
I have a feeling that years from now I'm going to wish I'd wrangled up more of my money to buy more TSLA than I have. Like I should have taken a loan against my house to buy shares even. The rational side of me knows that is bad investment strategy, yet a part of me strongly wants to bet the farm (and more) too.
I have a feeling that years from now I'm going to wish I'd wrangled up more of my money to buy more TSLA than I have. Like I should have taken a loan against my house to buy shares even. The rational side of me knows that is bad investment strategy, yet a part of me strongly wants to bet the farm (and more) too.
Siting at ~ $103B market cap right now think that puts it past VW for #2. This thing is crazy it's probably going to keep running up through the earnings report
Hit a high of $581 now
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Hindsight and all. For every story of betting the farm, there's hundreds that lose their farms.
Get rich slow.
Model Y is poised to do really well. It's has more confidence behind it now that the 3 has been successful and the crossover/small SUV market is big.
On top of that the Y is rumored to be shipping early.
On top of that S&P inclusion may happen in the next few months.
On top of that Tesla just won a lawsuit letting them sell in Michigan.
On top of that some battery rumors are starting to emerge about some new tech Tesla will be announced during battery day.
Gonna be a ride.
Part of this is possibly from there's lots of speculation deliverys might start NEXT MONTH for performance and March for AWD, apparently some customers got calls from sales reps already... Just rumors for now but there's alot more smoke than that
It'll be well into the $750s after the earnings call and the first Model Y's delivering in a couple weeks, way ahead of schedule
Wanna know how to make a bunch of money? Buy bad news and bad sentiment from social media. Irrational hate and reactionary contrarian cynical quipping tends to be a bullish indicator especially when its aimed at innovators.
Examples from posts we see here:
"fuck elon musk 😂" - buy TSLA
"im never buying a phone without a headphone jack" - buy AAPL
"cashless systems are classist" - buy V
"nvidia products are overpriced" - buy NVIDIA
"ill never stop eating meat" - buy Beyond
and so on and so forth
I would add to that China GF3 Model 3 are back ordered untill April. US Model 3 now 8 to 10 weeks for new orders... Demand is very strong.
Several prominent analysts upped their price targets last couple days with bull cases reaching as high as $900 and $1200 with 12 month cases of $550 and $800 iirc
Trump just called Elon a genius this morning lol
And Elon did a 2 hour podcast in his home with a group of Tesla youtubers/fans in which he got to tell his story and was very much the calm thoughtful brilliant Elon of old:
Also, today is the day I pick up my M3 Dual Motor. I did my part for Q1 - you're welcome everyone!
Is demand strong, or is production slowing as they make manufacturing line updates in preparation for model Y? Not a bad thing obviously but I think strong demand is not the only (or primary) reason
It seems crazy for the stock price to be that high. They are worth more than VW yet they make 1/20th the number of cars with similar margins?
Unless tesla starts delivering on FSD and robotaxis soon, I see no reason for them to be so drastically higher valued than other car companies of similar size.
Oh I know, that's why the realist in me will just wait for Tesla to hit a dip later this year and buy more shares.
The pessimist in me is worried that said dip will never reach as low as the share price currently is again, lol.
Tesla is much more than just a car company, and trying to value it as such is incorrect. The market is starting to realize this, hence the run up despite the numbers not "justifying" it. Same thing happened to Apple, Amazon, Yahoo, etc in the past.
Yeah that's certainly possible that resources were moved over from 3 to Y, that has been speculated too. We'll probably find out either way on the earnings call.
And yeah the comparisons with VW, Ford, GM etc are just for fun and giggles. Make no mistake this is a tech/battery company that happens to sell high tech computers on wheels.
China is sold out and on a waiting list until Q2 already. Demand is really strong for the Y.
People are evaluating Tesla as not only a car company like VW but also because of solar, battery, etc. It's not a 1-1 with car companies.
Yeah but tesla has a bit of a habit of over promising and under delivering in the "more than just a car company" stuff. That's why I said they need to start delivering on those features.
Musk promised a coast to coast self driving test in 2016.
Three years ago tomorrow musk said this:
Last year, musk said self driving would be "feature complete" by the end of 2019
Features listed in 2019 on the autopilot page saying "coming later this year" are still not available (driving on city steets, stop sign/traffic light recognition)
I'm pretty sure when Steve Jobs announced the iphone, it wasn't 4+ years until you could use one
No. Steve just threw iPods that won't work during a keynote at his employees while on stage and yelled at them.
Why isn't panasonic's or lg's market cap exploding if batteries are so valuable?
Solar tiles are neat but I don't think they are contributing much to the recent tesla hype. How many have they installed? Seems like an unproven business with a limited market. They are not suitable in a lot of applications and aside from aesthetics, normal panels are generally a better option. I believe most of tesla's solar installations are normal panels (made by panasonic), which aren't anything special in the solar world as far as I know.
It's not the actual battery cells that are valuable. Those are a commodity. Tesla does have them make a specific formulation that is obviously superior to what anyone else has but It's the actual battery pack that is value.. All the tech/software/systems/configuration surrounding that. Experts that have torn apart Model 3 packs are blown away and call it borderline alien tech compared with what anyone else is doing. Same applies for powerwalls, megapacks, micro grids... No one else can do the software side like Tesla.
Here maybe this can better help explain the situation of not just Tesla vs VW, but the entire industry vs Tesla:
The freaking CEO just admitted that Tesla=Apple VW=Nokia and they better get their shit together or it's game over....if that doesn't explain why Tesla is valued higher I don't know what to say, the market is forward looking, not present or past
With the tens of billions of dollars that automakers have very recently committed to EV (daimler, bmw, vw, gm alone total about $50 billion of EV investments this decade from quick googling), I think tesla's tech lead will start to shrink pretty soon. They may not be as efficient as tesla, but you can hire a lot of engineers for 50 billion. Not to mention external suppliers like panasonic, lg, bosch, etc putting in huge investments of their own into battery and self driving tech.
At this point it seems like tesla will be a sustainable and successful company, but comparisons to the big tech companies do not seem valid. For example, amazon has been profitable since around 2004 but they didn't achieve a market cap of over 100 billion until 2011.
Tesla hasn't been profitable for a single full year and it's already hit 100b. Seems nuts.
VW is the one automaker other than Tesla which really seems to understand the transformation happening. They are making big bold moves to adapt while other auto makers are taking tiny steps.
Tesla has a huge lead in tech, data, and marketshare over everyone else, but I have a hunch VW will be a solid competitor to Tesla in 5 to 10 years, especially if VW does decide to use Tesla tech directly like the rumors are suggesting. The rest will likely be in the rear view mirror.
If everyone besides tesla stopped making cars today it would be decades before tesla could ramp up production to fulfill demand. Cars aren't phones, they are much more difficult to make (ask tesla). Cars also don't have the margins of phones, unless you think tesla will eventually start building cars for $10,000 and selling them for $30,000. Tesla will never have the margins of a tech company, so they shouldn't be priced like one. Especially at a time when they have the margins of an average car company.
The car makers realize the threat, obviously, and are making huge investments to step up to the competition tesla is providing. Even if tesla gets to 5 million annual production in the next 5 years, which would be impossible, that would still only be half of VW's production and less than 8% of global car production. Traditional car makers still have time to react and pivot.
Tesla is already doing unique things to gain profits. $2,000 app purchase for an acceleration boost? What happens when they have features like horn sounds you can purchase, or other specialized upgrades? There is room for margins that are very different than other car companies. I think you're thinking way too traditionally in many of the domains and price structures you are imagining.
No one is saying they are exactly like a tech company with identical margins. People are saying they are more than a traditional car company and it's TBD what this weird hybrid is actually capable of doing.
Eh the CEO has been doom and glooming in german press for atleast a year now but VW alone is gonna invest 60 billion in new EV models in the next 4 years. If production schedule stays on target they'll produce 500k ID3s (their first sub 30k EV) until next year.
He and the other german car manufacturers are scaremongering (successfully) the german goverment into giving them money but atleast VW is gonna be fine (they're planning on having 70EV models by 2027).
Daimler or BMW are in a way worse situation. Tesla has the hype but i doubt they'll can keep up with VW now that they're ramping up production.
Bought mine q4 last year. Best car driving experience I've had. And I don't miss paying for gas.
Seriously. I was explaining to my friends having an electric vehicle is like if Amazon had a service where they came to your house every night while you were sleeping and filled you up so you always woke up with a full tank. Never waste your time stopping and standing in the cold. Oh and it's like 1/5th the cost lol
My next car will be a Model Y but not for a few years. I want to invest more money first and give the Model Y a few years to mature before I get one. I'm not in any rush, they keep making more of them!
Plus with the no model year thing they only get better and better every month and possibly cheaper. I put off getting my Model 3 for a year and it ended up being like $10k cheaper as they not only dropped price but included Autopilot. Scored a 2020 model which will be huge mental thing down the line compared to say 2019. Had the brand new HW3 computer chip, external pedestrian warning speakers(which i think will be cool once we can get DLC to customize lol) and the build quality was amazing no issues. So yeah I wouldn't rush take your time the cars only improve as tempting as it might be to just get one, it turned out to be an incredible decision for me that I'm happy with.
Is it really as simple as investing a lot of money?
So far I don't see anyone match Tesla on batteries, efficiency or charge speed or other features.
Porsche has 800V charging, that's the first thing I've seen Tesla beaten at.
For what it's worth, stop light and stop sign recognition are working, just not to the level of confidence where they have hooked it up to the controls of the car yet. For at least a couple of months there has been a feature that will warn you if you're about to run a red light or stop sign on autopilot although it won't stop the car automatically yet. The current firmware displays all the stop signs and traffic lights on the screen if you have the newest Autopilot computer, and in my experience it's been pretty much accurate on every intersection I've driven through.
2006 and the bumper fell off because it was brittle, so I ordered a non painted one to save money (black on red) and the side mirror was in the same boat.
Tesla still took it as a trade in, no questions asked (a whopping $1600).