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"Thanos is the protagonist - How Infinity War works" and "Thanos deserved to win", two video essays.

ZattMurdock

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616




These two video essays sums up the reasons why the more I think of it, the more I'm certain that the Russo Brothers managed to make not just the best villain in superhero films of all time, but the best villain in blockbuster cinema period. Yes, Ledger's Joker was a masterful performance. Yes, Darth Vader is the original goat. But I honestly believe that Thanos is groundbreaking and even without the end of the story just yet, Thanos is arguably the best villain when it comes to blockbuster cinema of literally all time.

I'd highly recommend to watch both videos.

Update:

Adding the contribuition of Alexandros to the thread:

One of the more interesting nuggets from the interviews comes when the idea of Thanos as the antagonist is questioned. The screenwriters of the film, Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, maintain that Thanos, not any one of the Avengers, is the protagonist of their script. McFeely says, "[Thanos] is the protagonist. He overcomes odds. He sacrifices a lot and gets what he wants in the end."
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Source: https://screencraft.org/2018/05/17/...-war-created-a-complex-protagonist-in-thanos/
 
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Rackham

Rackham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,532
Yes but don't forget that there are people who will defend anything- especially edgy things.

Griffith did nothing wrong etc.

(I happened to love Infinity War)
 
NecroTechno

NecroTechno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
296
geohell
Thanos is just buying into neo-malthusian rhetoric. No, overpopulation is really not a problem. Overcrowding, maybe, and definitely overconsumption, but the issue is not that there are too many people - the issue is city design and a system in which we are encourage to consume far, far, far too much. The solution to the problem of overconsumption being the murder of half of all populations is completely fucked up.
 
OP
OP
ZattMurdock

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Hollywood Duo said:
I mean its half a movie so the jury is still out.
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It's not half a movie. It's not even "The Empire Strikes Back" of the MCU, that would be Civil War imho. Thanos won, and he deserved to win, which is even more terrifying. It's not an endorsement that he was right, but he's the one with the hero's arc and he did what he was set out to do, sacrificing everything to achieve so. Despite what will happen in Endgame, I believe that Infinity War makes an excellent case to crown Thanos as the best villain in blockbuster cinema of all time, topping even Darth Vader himself.

NecroTechno said:
Thanos is just buying into neo-malthusian rhetoric. No, overpopulation is really not a problem. Overcrowding, maybe, and definitely overconsumption, but the issue is not that there are too many people - the issue is city design and a system in which we are encourage to consume far, far, far too much. The solution to the problem of overconsumption being the murder of half of all populations is completely fucked up.
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I completely AGREE with you. Those two videos aren't about Thanos being right, he is not. And that's why he'll eventually lose. But the point of the two videos is that the reason Thanos is so compelling is because he's the protagonist AND because in fact, because of his character arc, deserved to win, more than the heroes themselves.
 
Rvaan

Rvaan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,734
Shame some people won't be able to see the end of the story due to a boycott.
 

Playco Armboy

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,406
User Banned (Permanent): Consistent history of antagonistic and hostile behaviour towards other members. Long history of infractions for similar behaviour.
Stopped reading at ZattMurdock
 
Hollywood Duo

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,761
ZattMurdock said:
It's not half a movie. It's not even "The Empire Strikes Back" of the MCU, that would be Civil War imho. Thanos won, and he deserved to win, which is even more terrifying. It's not an endorsement that he was right, but he's the one with the hero's arc and he did what he was set out to do, sacrificing everything to achieve so. Despite what will happen in Endgame, I believe that Infinity War makes an excellent case to crown Thanos as the best villain in blockbuster cinema of all time, topping even Darth Vader himself.
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And if he's just undone with some typical comic time travel fake out where everything is reversed? He's got to have some lasting impact in the end to be a truly great villain.
Playco Armboy said:
Stopped reading at ZattMurdock
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0/10 low effort post. Don't shit on Zatt in his own topic its a bullshit move. Just don't post in his threads.
 
Pickman

Pickman

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,266
Huntington, WV
What if they show the world in Avengers 4 as having actually improved? Like, less people so more resources-- memorials still exist and the sense of mourning and loss is horrible, but babies are still born and the world is still turning. People start feeling intense guilt because they realize that Thanos was right.
 
Platy

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,634
Brazil
He is the villain, he is wrong, but yeah, he totally is the protagonist

It is like the evil nazi in inglorious bastards

Pickman said:
What if they show the world in Avengers 4 as having actually improved? Like, less people so more resources-- memorials still exist and the sense of mourning and loss is horrible, but babies are still born and the world is still turning. People start feeling intense guilt because they realize that Thanos was right.
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Isn't half of the world population as there is now just the 60's ?
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,734
Thanos is a good villain. Nothing amazing. But nah. For Thanos to deserve to win, we would have to buy into his bullshit that half the population needs to die. Because his planet and his people fucked themselves is poor anecdotal reasoning for why the rest of the universe needs to kill 50%. His logic was shite.
 
Manmademan

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
15,988
I dunno about all this "greatest villain" stuff, but i am happy the version we got was nothing like the one that showed up in Guardians 1, promising to "bathe the starways in blood" while floating around in a rocket chair.

That one would have been a disaster. Thank God for Russos
 
McScroggz

McScroggz

The Fallen
Jan 11, 2018
5,971
I'm definitely a purveyor of the Thanos was the protagonist idea, and it fits in perfectly to where I think the second movie might go. To me, there is going to be some cosmic entity that will want to take out Thanos, and I believe this might lead to Thanos and the rest of Mavel's Heroes teaming up. Given how Civil War ended, I'm hopeful that Endgame won't end with a big battle versus Thanos and then The Avengers snap reality back to what it was - and don't get me wrong they could definitely make that work really well - but the idea of Thanos and The Avengers taking out or pushing back a cosmic entity, only for Tony or Steve to be able to persuade Thanos to give the universe another chance. Maybe after Thanos assuages Thor or Nebula kills him, giving the act some moral complexity (relatively). If Thanos is the protagonist, that works incredibly well as an arc.
 
SugarNoodles

SugarNoodles

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Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
Thanos is not the protagonist because that's not how writing works.


There will never be a shortage of edgelord fans willing to bend over backwards in order to justify the actions of an edgelord villain.
 
Slime

Slime

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Oct 25, 2017
2,970
Thanos being the protagonist of his own MacGuffin-hunting reverse-hero's journey is the entire point of the movie
 
onpoint

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
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Oct 26, 2017
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The movie was certainly structured that way. He was a villain on a hero's journey and it was both a novel take and super well done.
 
Kalentan

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,615
SugarNoodles said:
Thanos is not the protagonist because that's not how writing works.

There will never be a shortage of edgelord fans willing to bend over backwards in order to justify the actions of an edgelord villain.
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Uh... Just because they can be the protagonist doesn't mean they need justification for their actions. You can have villain protagonists. Doesn't mean what they're doing is good.
 

Playco Armboy

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,406
Hollywood Duo said:
0/10 low effort post. Don't shit on Zatt in his own topic its a bullshit move. Just don't post in his threads.
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If you want some effort in it:

Thanos is a moron and his plan is moronic, thereby alleviating the apparent legitimacy of which the movie attributes to his plan as being necessary and something he needs to do. The entire movie screams of, "THANOS IS ACTUALLY RIGHT AND SYMPATHETIC" and makes no attempt to point out how easily defeated his logic is.

Haee said:
Alright, I'm done of this shit derailing every single thread he's in. This kind of shit should be bannable.
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It's not derailing.
 
Deepwater

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
It's alao worth noting that Thanos has by far the most screen time out of any individual character in Infinity War.

I dislike the whole "Thanos was right" argument but I don't aggressively disagree with Infinity War being his story. He's definitely not the protagonist though, just by definition.
 
Maxim726x

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,050
Rackham said:
Yes but don't forget that there are people who will defend anything- especially edgy things.

Griffith did nothing wrong etc.

(I happened to love Infinity War)
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It's more to do with the way the movie was structured, not necessarily whether or not he was the "villain" or "hero".

It was brilliantly executed and really the only realistic fashion to make a film with that many characters work.
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,734
Playco Armboy said:
Thanos is a moron and his plan is moronic, thereby alleviating the apparent legitimacy of which the movie attributes to his plan as being necessary and something he needs to do. The entire movie screams of, "THANOS IS ACTUALLY RIGHT AND SYMPATHETIC" and makes no attempt to point how easily defeated his logic is.
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A million times this. Just because Thanos succeeds in his plan doesn't make his reasoning solid. There are billions of villains out there doing evil for the sake of what they consider "good." Thanos just happens to shed a tear along the way and wipe out 50% of population, suddenly making him ten times better than every other villain with same ass backwards plans? Nopers.

And I say all of this as someone who likes Thanos a lot. He is the best Marvel movie villain so far.
 

see5harp

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Oct 31, 2017
4,435
The greatest blockbuster villain of all time? Man some of these comic fans really really crazy.
 
Creatchee

Creatchee

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Oct 26, 2017
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NecroTechno said:
Thanos is just buying into neo-malthusian rhetoric. No, overpopulation is really not a problem. Overcrowding, maybe, and definitely overconsumption, but the issue is not that there are too many people - the issue is city design and a system in which we are encourage to consume far, far, far too much. The solution to the problem of overconsumption being the murder of half of all populations is completely fucked up.
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Fair, but when we do nothing on a large scale to fix the results, does the actual problem make a difference when the solution will do so regardless of which problem it was in the first place?

Also, we have no idea what the story was on all of the other planets that he halved. Earth could be at any point on the overcrowded spectrum of the universe.
 
Alexandros

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800
Yeah, the writers and directors really did an incredible work with Thanos. He is legitimately intimidating and almost sympathetic at the same time, he does all these terrible things yet that fucker somehow has real charisma. Not to mention that his presence fills the screen, he is the de facto protagonist of every scene he is in.
 
Slyonic

Slyonic

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Oct 29, 2017
1,350
What surprised me when reading the tie-in novel about Thanos' backstory, is that when suggesting euthanizing half of Titan's population, he hardcoded himself in the algorithm that decides who dies. Thanos was willing to sacrifice his own life to save his planet. Makes you wonder if he was just lucky to survive the snap himself.
 
Deepwater

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
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Kalentan said:
Thanos has the most screen time, he goes on his own Hero's Journey, and is the primary focus of the film. The directors themselves said that Infinity War was Thanos' Film.
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No, he's still the antagonist. The avengers are still framed as the protagonists (like it's literally in the film title).
 
Deleted member 21339

Deleted member 21339

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Oct 28, 2017
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Thanos was a genuine threat to our heroes and had a menacing screen presence. I also liked his minions. The backstory with Gamora was good too. Let's not get crazy with these superlatives though.
 
Kalentan

Kalentan

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Oct 25, 2017
44,615
SugarNoodles said:
He is the antagonist. Claiming that he is the protagonist can only be done when lacking a basic understanding of writing.
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...you do realize that there is a difference between being the Hero and being the Protagonist right? Protagonist doesn't suddenly mean that they need to be the good guy. It just means they need to be the main character.

You say lack of basic understanding of writing but your conflating Hero and Protagonist.
 
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