The Alt-Right Internet (/pol/, The_Donald, Gab etc)

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,647
One of the largest components of the Alt-Right's emergence is their tightly knit online communities. They're breeding grounds for conspiracies, racism, misogyny and all-round festering pits. They've also seen huge movements on Facebook/Twitter/YouTube - however those three major websites have made 'some' action to mitigate their rise whereas other places are happy to let them grow and the alt-right weren't as gathered on those sites.

On Facebook/Twitter/YouTube the algorithms tended to lead you to content fit around you. Other sites have gave the Alt-Right their own space, or sites have been set up specifically for them.

How integral to the existence of the Alt-Right do you think these online communities are and what is a solution to them? Do you believe in the 'quarantine' argument, do you think simply banning them will solve it? What exactly can be done to control these online groups and their anonymity?

Or conversely does anyone here not actually oppose such communities and bans? Why do you back them? Do you participate in these communities?

Some reading for context and background, just some sample quotes that don't tell the whole picture of the article so I'd recommend you read the full things.
https://gizmodo.com/study-finds-banning-reddits-bigoted-jerkwards-worked-1803766754
https://gizmodo.com/study-finds-banning-reddits-bigoted-jerkwards-worked-1803766754

For the banned community users that remained active, the ban drastically reduced the amount of hate speech they used across Reddit by a large and significant amount. Following the ban, Reddit saw a 90.63% decrease in the usage of manually filtered hate words by r/fatpeoplehate users, and a 81.08% decrease in the usage of manually filtered hate words by r/CoonTown users (relative to their respective control groups). The observed changes in hate speech usage were verified to be caused by the ban and not random chance, via permutation tests.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/19/reddit-and-the-struggle-to-detoxify-the-internet

Some of the conspiracy theorists left Reddit and reunited on Voat, a site made by and for the users that Reddit sloughs off. (Many social networks have such Bizarro networks, which brand themselves as strongholds of free speech and in practice are often used for hate speech. People banned from Twitter end up on Gab; people banned from Patreon end up on Hatreon.) Other Pizzagaters stayed and regrouped on r/The_Donald, a popular pro-Trump subreddit. Throughout the Presidential campaign, The_Donald was a hive of Trump boosterism. By this time, it had become a hermetic subculture, full of inside jokes and ugly rhetoric. The community’s most frequent commenters, like the man they’d helped propel to the Presidency, were experts at testing boundaries. Within minutes, they started to express their outrage that Pizzagate had been deleted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43383766

Steve Huffman, Reddit's co-founder and current chief executive, remarked at length at SXSW about r/The_Donald, a subreddit used by President Trump's supporters and Trump himself during his 2016 campaign.

Despite calls from some users that the section be taken down for flouting rules on hate speech, Mr Huffman has stood firm on keeping it up, with a few measures to limit its spread.

"It's crass and offensive and that is part of their identity," he said.

"[But] there's a difference between conflicting with our values and conflicting with our content policy."

Most troubling to observers is The_Donald's role as a thriving hub for conspiracy theories. It may not be the origin of vicious content - such as suggesting school children involved in shootings are actors - but it is the leading amplifier.
https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/11/13/16624688/reddit-bans-incels-the-donald-controversy

The comments from the Reddit users mentioned above neatly highlight not just the cyclical nature of Reddit’s policy changes but also the true problem with them: It’s not the policies themselves, but the inconsistency with which they’re enforced, that leads to trouble.

This is a theme we’ve seen again and again with various internet communities, from YouTube and Tumblr’s repeated conflation of queer content with sexually explicit content to Twitter’s ongoing failure to combat hate speech and abuse. The best and strongest content policies can essentially be rendered useless if they aren’t enforced in a consistent and responsible way.

In Reddit’s case, this inconsistency is reflected in the site’s ongoing accommodation of what’s arguably the single most damaging community on the site: r/The_Donald, which became the major hub of Donald Trump’s alt-right supporters in the lead-up to the 2016 election.

The_Donald has become notorious for its incitements to violence, its blatant white supremacist rhetoric, and its use as a lure for the alt-right into more explicit forms of right-wing extremism. Trump’s notorious anti-CNN tweet, which seemed to advocate violence against journalists and arguably violated Twitter’s own content policy, originated from a post on The_Donald. Prior to the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, The_Donald hosted a stickied post encouraging members to attend the rally and march alongside neo-Nazi and “ethnostate” groups, because, “In this case, the pursuit of preserving without shame white culture, our goals happen to align.” Most recently, a member of The_Donald, an alt-right blogger who formerly worked for Milo Yiannopoulos, murdered his own father after his father accused him of being a Nazi.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...chan-celebrated-trumps-victory/?noredirect=on

4chan’s /pol/ boards have, for much of the 2016 campaign, felt like an alternate reality, one where a Donald Trump presidency was not only possible but inevitable. At some point Tuesday evening, the board’s Trump-loving, racist memers began to realize that they were actually right.

“I’m f—— trembling out of excitement brahs,” one 4channer wrote Tuesday night, adding a very excited Pepe the Frog drawing. “We actually elected a meme as president.”
https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2018/01/let-s-colonise-myspace-inside-alt-right-s-internet
https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2018/01/let-s-colonise-myspace-inside-alt-right-s-internet

Perhaps the most troubling of these new social networks is Voat, an online forum that hosts an abundance of conspiracy theories, most notably “Pizzagate”. The Pizzagate conspiracy posits that Hillary Clinton is at the centre of a paedophile ring run out of a Washington DC pizzeria. In December 2016, a man attempting to “self-investigate” the conspiracy fired three shots inside the restaurant.

In less immediate ways, the fragmentation of social networks also damages the left. Davey warns that the exodus of the far right from Twitter and Facebook allows the online left to engage in so-called cumulative radicalisation. “The more insular you are, the less you listen to opposing voices,” he says. “There’s a danger people become more closeted and only engage with people who tacitly confirm their world view. ”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/11/technology/alt-right-internet.html

If you’ve lost sleep worrying about the growing power of the alt-right — that shadowy coalition that includes white nationalists, anti-feminists, far-right reactionaries and meme-sharing trolls — I may have found a cure for your anxiety.

Just try using its websites.

In recent months, as sites like YouTube, Twitter and Facebook have cracked down on hate speech and barred several high-profile conservative users, the alt-right made a declaration of technological independence from Silicon Valley. Hard-right activists vowed to create their own versions of these digital services, on which all views would be welcome, no matter how crude or incendiary.

More than a dozen “alt-tech” companies have now emerged, each promising a refuge from political correctness and censorship. There is Gab, a kind of alt-Twitter social network that began last year, whose early adopters included prominent figures like Milo Yiannopoulos and Andrew Anglin, the founder of the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer website. There is WrongThink (alt-Facebook), PewTube (alt-YouTube), Voat (alt-Reddit), Infogalactic (alt-Wikipedia) and GoyFundMe (alt-Kickstarter). There is even WASP.love, a dating site for white nationalists and others “wishing to preserve their heritage.”
 
Nov 1, 2017
504
Banning clearly works. They get tired of Voat and their other shitty sites after a while and give it up. The reason the Donald hasn't been banned is a mystery, but I suspect the answers are unpleasant.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,680
Sweden
big sites like youtube, reddit and twitter need to shut them down, because that's where new people are exposed to them

no one, who isn't already pretty far into that pit, is going to seek out sites like stormfront or voat on their own
 

4859

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,817
In the weak and the wounded
Communication is one if the most potent and powerful tools for any manner of movement, and giving them massive risk free, confrontation free communication platforms is absolutely a huge factor.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,151
I think some of these communities are pretty skilled at distributing their narratives and methods in a digestible, attractive manner. I used to poke around /gg/ on 8chan in the Gamergate days to see what it was about, and besides all the pictures of the clasped-handed Jew caricatures, they had a lot of infographic guides about how to talk to "shills" (that is, anyone who doesn't agree with them) and things of that nature.

Banning clearly works. They get tired of Voat and their other shitty sites after a while and give it up. The reason the Donald hasn't been banned is a mystery, but I suspect the answers are unpleasant.
I don't think it's a mystery at all; I think Reddit was explicitly meant to be a platform where people can discuss anything, knowing full well that it's going to be horrible. The)Donald is just Reddit functioning as intended.
https://www.dailydot.com/society/reddit-beatingwomen-misogyny-images/

About a month ago, Reddit general manager Erik Martin addressed the freedom of speech issue in a post about about two other controversial subreddits, /r/jailbait and /r/picsofdeadkids. Even though he was personally disturbed by these groups, Martin said, he recognized that it was not Reddit’s place to censor its users.

“We’re a free speech site with very few exceptions (mostly personal info) and having to stomach occasional troll reddit like /r/picsofdeadkids or morally questionable reddits like /r/jailbait are part of the price of free speech on a site like this,” he wrote.
It's the situation where I doubt they'd even take down child pornography if it wasn't a legal risk.
 

Tethered Penguin

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,012
Deplatformization has been shown to work. (I can't find the study right now, sorry.)

Also, If I recall a bunch of users (correct me if I'm wrong) decided to contact advertisers and inform them about Spez's decision to do nothing about r/ The Donald.

Was it any successful?
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
10,577
I still fail to see the supposed good that giving shiholes a platform brings.
As soon as they're banned any place become a thousand times more useful and entertaining to use.
Ask what Milo Yannoupoulos think of it, it's great.
Heck if you give groups like incels a place where they can spread their shit they can organize and talk about how awesome some shitty terrorists are and they get lionize murderers.
We don't give ISIS any platform to recruit, why should we give one for nazis?
 

okayfrog

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,968
Not a fan of saying that "it works." It's like, yeah, these communities become less awful. But the people who were there don't change. They just find some other little nook and become even further radicalized. I don't think there's a right answer. Kicking these folks off of large platforms like Reddit, Facebook, YouTube, et. al. does make others feel better about the platforms, at least.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Banning clearly works. They get tired of Voat and their other shitty sites after a while and give it up. The reason the Donald hasn't been banned is a mystery, but I suspect the answers are unpleasant.
Money. It makes them money.

I still fail to see the supposed good that giving shiholes a platform brings.
As soon as they're banned any place become a thousand times more useful and entertaining to use.
Ask what Milo Yannoupoulos think of it, it's great.
Heck if you give groups like incels a place where they can spread their shit they can organize and talk about how awesome some shitty terrorists are and they get lionize murderers.
We don't give ISIS any platform to recruit, why should we give one for nazis?
Because Nazis are white.
 
OP
OP
Jam

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,647
Not a fan of saying that "it works." It's like, yeah, these communities become less awful. But the people who were there don't change. They just find some other little nook and become even further radicalized. I don't think there's a right answer. Kicking these folks off of large platforms like Reddit, Facebook, YouTube, et. al. does make others feel better about the platforms, at least.
That's true for some but there has been studies to show it discourages a lot of people - they act like this because the communities are accessible in their usual spots. Take away the spot the person reduces their radical speech, or vanishes off the platform all together.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
10,577
That's true for some but there has been studies to show it discourages a lot of people - they act like this because the communities are accessible in their usual spots. Take away the spot the person reduces their radical speech, or vanishes off the platform all together.
The worst part is that we get all these testimonies about people that are part of these groups that say "I thought I was alone with these racists thoughts and now I know we are not alone".
Like yeah, if you want to remove racist discourse from society, making sure that nazis can't find support groups online to push even more people throught the rabbit hole is kind of the point.

Because Nazis are white.
Wel duh
It kind of shows the extent of white privilege that you can have actual corprorations and "centrists" go to bat for actual bona fide terrorists as long as they're white.
 

honest_ry

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
4,288
I don't know how anyone can use reddit. That site is just a clusterfuck.

And you have fuckclusters in charge of it.
 

Kitsunelaine

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Kicking these people off of communities and banning them and their websites prevents them from feeding off of each other in a neverending spiral. I don't see how one couldn't argue that it's not a key part of the solution. The alt right is the bubbliest of bubbles, but that bubble ain't gonna pop itself. It's more like a pimple.
 

Arkeband

Member
Nov 8, 2017
7,111
Reddit’s hands off policy sucks. I can’t even count how many times I’ve debated with someone on Reddit who throws in a “could you link me to a source I’ve never heard of this” in regards to something stupid Trump has done, and then I look at their post history and they’re ‘discussing’ that exact thing in The_Donald.

Take away their safe space and they’ll fuck off to other websites to die a circlejerk death as they failed to grow pre-Reddit.
 
OP
OP
Jam

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,647
Reddit’s hands off policy sucks. I can’t even count how many times I’ve debated with someone on Reddit who throws in a “could you link me to a source I’ve never heard of this” in regards to something stupid Trump has done, and then I look at their post history and they’re ‘discussing’ that exact thing in The_Donald.

Take away their safe space and they’ll fuck off to other websites to die a circlejerk death as they failed to grow pre-Reddit.
But do you think Pandora's box has been opened with these people now they've seen the possibility?
 

SieteBlanco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,878
4chan's reputation had been flushed down the toilet long before the alt-right became a thing so I don't think they have much incentive to get rid of /pol/.
 

ProfessorLobo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,523
In less immediate ways, the fragmentation of social networks also damages the left. Davey warns that the exodus of the far right from Twitter and Facebook allows the online left to engage in so-called cumulative radicalisation. “The more insular you are, the less you listen to opposing voices,” he says. “There’s a danger people become more closeted and only engage with people who tacitly confirm their world view. ”
Damn guys we're missing out on them far right viewpoints.
 
Nov 1, 2017
504
I think some of these communities are pretty skilled at distributing their narratives and methods in a digestible, attractive manner. I used to poke around /gg/ on 8chan in the Gamergate days to see what it was about, and besides all the pictures of the clasped-handed Jew caricatures, they had a lot of infographic guides about how to talk to "shills" (that is, anyone who doesn't agree with them) and things of that nature.



I don't think it's a mystery at all; I think Reddit was explicitly meant to be a platform where people can discuss anything, knowing full well that it's going to be horrible. The)Donald is just Reddit functioning as intended.
https://www.dailydot.com/society/reddit-beatingwomen-misogyny-images/



It's the situation where I doubt they'd even take down child pornography if it wasn't a legal risk.
Yeah, but even Reddit has rules and The Donald routinely and flagrantly breaks them. Incels and several other subs have been banned for less than they do, so it seems they have special protection from on high.

These motherfuckers helped organize the Unite The Right rally, the infamous hate gathering where people of color were beaten, and a terrorist attacked a crowd with his car hurting several people and killing one. And still they continue. They brigade. And still they continue. They dox. And still they continue. They've been proven to be part of the Russian infiltration of Reddit. And still they continue. I guess it does bring in money, but also I'm starting to believe Reddit higher ups must sympathize with its message and goals.
 
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Nov 1, 2017
504
Not a fan of saying that "it works." It's like, yeah, these communities become less awful. But the people who were there don't change. They just find some other little nook and become even further radicalized. I don't think there's a right answer. Kicking these folks off of large platforms like Reddit, Facebook, YouTube, et. al. does make others feel better about the platforms, at least.
But fortunately these guys can't code for shit and their "replacement" platforms are pathetic things that most of them eventually abandon. It does weaken them and lessen their effectiveness.
 

cakely

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,092
Chicago
I still fail to see the supposed good that giving shiholes a platform brings.
As soon as they're banned any place become a thousand times more useful and entertaining to use.
Ask what Milo Yannoupoulos think of it, it's great.
Heck if you give groups like incels a place where they can spread their shit they can organize and talk about how awesome some shitty terrorists are and they get lionize murderers.
We don't give ISIS any platform to recruit, why should we give one for nazis?
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Not a fan of saying that "it works." It's like, yeah, these communities become less awful. But the people who were there don't change. They just find some other little nook and become even further radicalized. I don't think there's a right answer. Kicking these folks off of large platforms like Reddit, Facebook, YouTube, et. al. does make others feel better about the platforms, at least.
This is still a success. Those people are lost, but when they're on some loser corner of the Internet they can't bring it more people. Online and in real life we've seen time and time again that deplatforming works.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,915
I'm actually fine if they stay on fringe sites like Gab and Voat. They need to be removed from large sites like Youtube and Reddit though because that's where the large scale recruitment happens
 

Branu

Banned
Feb 7, 2018
1,029
It's not just the "alt-right internet," a label that misses the point and ignores the reach of these fascists. The entire internet needs to be purged of their presence and heavily moderated, imo.
 

sibarraz

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
14,175
I'm amazed how a site that I used to visit suddenly become an alt-right heaven
 

avaya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,005
London
I don't understand why we can not organise in someway to hound these vermin off the internet or at least shitpost the hell out of their preferred venues, depriving them of air for their message. There are more of us.
 

okayfrog

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,968
But fortunately these guys can't code for shit and their "replacement" platforms are pathetic things that most of them eventually abandon. It does weaken them and lessen their effectiveness.
This is still a success. Those people are lost, but when they're on some loser corner of the Internet they can't bring it more people. Online and in real life we've seen time and time again that deplatforming works.
For the big social media sites? Sure. But there's no replacement for something like 4chan, and -- so far -- there's nothing taking it down.
I don't understand why we can not organise in someway to hound these vermin off the internet or at least shitpost the hell out of their preferred venues, depriving them of air for their message. There are more of us.
Good luck shitposting on places like The_Donald or /pol/ that are already entirely shitposts.
 

Robochimp

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,531
I don't understand why we can not organise in someway to hound these vermin off the internet or at least shitpost the hell out of their preferred venues, depriving them of air for their message. There are more of us.
You get banned pretty quickly over at The Donald.

On occasion I’ll check out the OT at the old place and it blows my mind how many threads there are with titles that are nearly identical to things you see over at The Donald.
 

Falcon511

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,189
The incels created their own site for forum posting. Samantha bee did a segment on it. So I can imagine banning works for some but others can adapt easily to other places.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,775
You get banned pretty quickly over at The Donald.

On occasion I’ll check out the OT at the old place and it blows my mind how many threads there are with titles that are nearly identical to things you see over at The Donald.
It's no surprise about the old place. Evilore was more than happy to sell out his pretend morals to salvage a buck or two and gaf had been a target for awhile. The jackles think taking over a corpse is a win despite giving money to someone they proclaimed to despise. The joke is, Evilore doesn't give a shit about anything but what makes him another dollar just like every other shitty tech company, so he wins in the end regardless.
 

Kurona

Member
Apr 12, 2018
392
I think the idea that banning them off certain sites won't stop the majority is a little silly. We don't instigate campaigns and rules against bullying in schools because we think we're going to solve bullying forever and get all of them off the playground -- if we can at least thin the numbers, it's still worth it. All or nothing is not the greatest philosophy when it comes to important matters like this. Same with people saying that introducing gun laws "won't stop gun crime", but that's a whole other topic.
 
OP
OP
Jam

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,647
You get banned pretty quickly over at The Donald.

On occasion I’ll check out the OT at the old place and it blows my mind how many threads there are with titles that are nearly identical to things you see over at The Donald.
Woah, off this post I just checked and it really has just become another Alt-Right site. I'm not even just saying this to be snotty about the place. In one glance I saw a thread praising 'our President Trump's leadership reduced unemployment, the lefts freak out at kanye for supporting our president, Mueller is a left device. And this gem: "The sighs of relief from the most active users present here that the political tone has shifted dramatically ensures that the minority groups mentioned ain't coming back". So he has decided to open the gates to whoever he can to keep earning.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,944
It's no surprise about the old place. Evilore was more than happy to sell out his pretend morals to salvage a buck or two and gaf had been a target for awhile. The jackles think taking over a corpse is a win despite giving money to someone they proclaimed to despise. The joke is, Evilore doesn't give a shit about anything but what makes him another dollar just like every other shitty tech company, so he wins in the end regardless.
Well i occasionally visit for the morbidity, and i always check the online members. Usually it hovers at around 100-120. So i don't think he'll keep it as is for long. Can't imagine the vultures make him much money.

Just an observation, don't want to derail and get this thread locked over Gaf talk.

Now for some nice music:

 

ldcommando

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,480
neogaf is a alt-right forum now?

Btw, you guys can say the name of the forum, it´s not forbidden or anything.
 
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Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
I still fail to see the supposed good that giving shiholes a platform brings.
Because the free marketplace of ideas is great! /s





A lot of people on the Internet think that humans should be “logical” and listen to “facts”. This is mostly the “skeptics” and the “classical liberals” saying shit about laissez faire speech. They believe that the best and most logical ideas will win out.

Make no mistake, the free marketplace of ideas is not based on logic or arguments, it is based on influence. Deplatforming is the best way to remove that influence.

And this gem: "The sighs of relief from the most active users present here that the political tone has shifted dramatically ensures that the minority groups mentioned ain't coming back".
This is what they really wanted. They complain so much about censorship but they just wanted to silence minorities and progressives on that site.

And to that Kanye thread is crazy
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,711
Alt-right communities appeal to the lowest common denominator

People whose identities and credibilities don't matter. It's a ground fostered for the politically weak and socially inept. It's important for all people to be able to communicate freely using whatever channel they wish, so I think it's important to have these kinds of communities, regardless of what political affiliation they may have.

However, a lot of those guys incite violence and i've made threads before saying I think that we should make a stronger effort to hold people responsible for making such threats. The thread didn't go so well.
 

Branu

Banned
Feb 7, 2018
1,029
That's just not true. The hypocrisy of the right doesn't change the fact ISIS and other Islamic extremist groups are very active on mainstream social media platforms.
Pretty certain accounts on Facebook or Youtube that are openly aligned with ISIS get banned. Can't say the same for any accounts that broadcast alt-right talking points.