The Alt-Right Playbook: You Go High, We Go Low

[EdibleKnife]

Innuendo Studios has been spending the last 12 months on an enlightening and important video series called the Alt-Right Playbook (Previous thread). The series focuses on the tactics the alt-right and just general conservatism uses to control discourse, policy and, in this latest video (~19 Minutes) , even the behavior of the left. Innuendo discusses the fault of thinking behind "They Go Low We Go High" that allows bad behavior to flourish unchecked within the bounds of political and social reality.



To watch the entire series from the beginning: Click Here

 

[DigitalOp]

Will def watch but yeah, this sentiment called out to me with just how dumb it all is.

It invokes the same metaphor Game of Thrones did during Tyrions Trial by Combat at the Vale.

Bronn fights the Vales Champion, and wins by throwing dust/sand in his eyes before going for the kill.

"YOU DONT FIGHT WITH HONOR!"

"YEAH..... But he did" points to the non-existant Champion


Yeah that guy was def honorable, but he's fucking dead now. How much that honor matter when you no longer on the playing field?

 

[WaffleTaco]

I don't argue with alt-right people because they know exactly what they are doing and I don't need to waste my time on them.

That being said, I am looking forward to watching the video.

 

[Bandage]

Conservative playbook*

 

[Kthulhu]

I hope next time he focuses more on deplatforming. I think far too many people don't understand how effective it is.

 

[Nightwing123]

Another great video made by Innuendo Studios.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Amazing video.

But God damn it hurts.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Will def watch but yeah, this sentiment called out to me with just how dumb it all is.

It invokes the same metaphor Game of Thrones did during Tyrions Trial by Combat at the Vale.

Bronn fights the Vales Champion, and wins by throwing dust/sand in his eyes before going for the kill.

"YOU DONT FIGHT WITH HONOR!"

"YEAH..... But he did" points to the non-existant Champion


Yeah that guy was def honorable, but he's fucking dead now. How much that honor matter when you no longer on the playing field?

Click to shrink...

I've noted that they also do 1 of 2, or both, things: 1. constant whatboutism or 2. constant 'prove it' type statements

 

[DigitalOp]

I've noted that they also do 1 of 2, or both, things: 1. constant whatboutism or 2. constant 'prove it' type statements

Click to shrink...

This is correct, I haven't gotten to watch the video yet but WaffleTaco made the point. Theres really no point in arguing with these people anymore. We know what they believe in, we know what they are about, and we know their shitty tactics.

So what discussion is actually happening? We're pretty much telling each other how stupid the other one is.

Im perfectly fine staying on my "side" and helping those that I can and doing what I can. Being a decent human being is simply innate, Im not looking for "converts"

 

[mutantmagnet]

I've already reached that endgame he and his team prescribes but it does help bring clarity to some of the minutiae of the overall plan. The means don't justify the ends.

We are at a point that liberal Congress has take away executive responsibilities from the conservative President. We don't have to do that by simply staging a coup. The government fundamentally is a cohesive force for the states so liberal Congress should work with non-profits and local governments (conservative and liberal) to enable policies that move the country forward. Liberal Congress can use their constitutional power to disburse funds to enable these actions without explicitly taking away the President's power to perform an executive order.

 

[mutantmagnet]

This is correct, I haven't gotten to watch the video yet but WaffleTaco made the point. Theres really no point in arguing with these people anymore. We know what they believe in, we know what they are about, and we know their shitty tactics.

So what discussion is actually happening? We're pretty much telling each other how stupid the other one is.

Im perfectly fine staying on my "side" and helping those that I can and doing what I can. Being a decent human being is simply innate, Im not looking for "converts"

Click to shrink...

We simply shouldn't stay on our side. We should ignore their feelings but we still have to take care of them on a very basic level. They can benefit and grow by being passive recipients of the better policies we push through.

Our endgame is equal stability for all, so they can't be forgotten when we figure out how to reach that end goal, while fighting back against their tantrums and ignoring their appeals that only serve to slow us down.

 

[Fergus Mac Roich]

You notice the same patterns of behaviour when you engage with these people. The one big thing they love doing, is muddying the waters. The answer the question terribly but then write a stream of consciousness style post which draws from things you aren't even discussing.

Their ability to stay on one topic is terrible. It's better to keep on at them on one topic by continually ignoring all the over shite they write or say.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Highlights an issue even here where fuckheads espousing rhetoric about having to follow the rules and not causing disruption. Fuck that going high shit. There's no 'high' and 'low', just ineffective and effective. I'd go as far as to banning certain assholes, as more times than not they're clearly rightist shitbags needing to be told to get fucked rather than the weak-ass slap on the wrists they're too frequently given.

 

[Chris McQueen]

I've been subbed to his channel for a while now, excellent content.

 

[Ogodei]

Will def watch but yeah, this sentiment called out to me with just how dumb it all is.

It invokes the same metaphor Game of Thrones did during Tyrions Trial by Combat at the Vale.

Bronn fights the Vales Champion, and wins by throwing dust/sand in his eyes before going for the kill.

"YOU DONT FIGHT WITH HONOR!"

"YEAH..... But he did" points to the non-existant Champion


Yeah that guy was def honorable, but he's fucking dead now. How much that honor matter when you no longer on the playing field?

Click to shrink...

There's one thing to be said for this, and it's that left-leaning voters are motivated by different things. As much as many anti-Trump activists want to see Fascism get completely stomped, that kind of motivation doesn't play into the psyche of a lot of left-leaning voters who are motivated by positivity and can be turned off by negativity.

I very much agree with the point in the video but there's a reason that Obama but "hope" first.

The point being it's a case where playing dirty might make you less likely to win despite being against an opponent who's full-willing to play dirty. It's a difficult line to tread because you have to counter the foul play but have to do so in a way that maintains your integrity or else you lose your support. Can't kick someone in the sack just because they threw sand in your eyes.

 

[Naijaboy]

I want to point out a significant part of his video: that the left isn't as united in policy as the right, which may be as design.

That's why I've seen the anti-Trump as less of a Resistance and more of a Rebel Alliance, multiple groups with different priorities but who all agree that kicking out Trump will benefit them all. Yet that may not mean they stay united once he's gone.

Like how the rebels defeated the Empire, but their squabbling lead to the First Order.

 

[Foffy]

Why would you follow rules that not only are designed to create injustice, but by their very design prevent reformation to a more just system?

In this respect, I am in full agreement with people who want to tear the whole thing down. We have a very serious problem with "conservatism", which, if we're to be honest, should just be called political terrorism. It's a game that has only made this country worse since the '70s, and all the left has tried to do is "compromise" with the GOP. Look at healthcare: for all regards, it's conservative healthcare, hence why it was lambasted by the UN Human Rights Council as the least this country could have done in regards to healthcare, but if you listen to the GOP it's some awful super duper far left spooky program. They'll never support anything more than the already failing by design model we have. This means the rope we're tugging on has been watered down to appeal to these losers of humanity, and the problem with compromising with an enemy of human life is that the real solutions become hypothetical asterisks, meaning any major issue is never solved. The GOP doesn't support anything more than the ACA, and if anything, they support less than that. You'll never be able to work arm in arm with someone who thinks the entire prospect should be improved upon in any way whatsoever. This has been true for this country since the Civil Rights Movement, and more people should wake the fuck up to this fact. Perhaps now people will see this, seeing as social rights, the only thing the left has accomplished in this time, are all up for grabs by movements no longer having dogwhistles to be "civilized" about wanting the poor and the elderly to be euthanized, literally or policy wise is genuinely irrelevant to their goals.

Why would you compromise with an enemy to human dignity? The answer has always been "for the system" and "for civility" but you're dealing with a party that already doesn't care for those things and is precisely why they rig the system in their favor. Civility depends upon people agreeing on the social game rules, and that's been a dead beast for decades. You could argue it started under Nixon, though in many respects, Newt Gingrich helped make it into a much more public, binary political movement amongst the population, not just within power.

The GOP is just savages with pens instead of swords, for they produce similar levels of hatred, of divisions, of ideology fighting the accountable world that literal barbarians do.

 

[AnansiThePersona]

The Alt-Right is powerful because they hate almost everyone and will do anything to make them suffer. They have no rules, so they seem unstoppable.

 

[Doober]

Look no farther than GAF to see it in action.

 

[Ogodei]

The Alt-Right is powerful because they hate almost everyone and will do anything to make them suffer. They have no rules, so they seem unstoppable.

Click to shrink...

*Seem* is important. The thing is that the movement, at least in the United States, is actually very weak on its own and only gleans power from how it's managing to capture Republican leadership into its ideas. They're like cockroaches who thrive in the darkness but scatter the instant you turn the light on them. They thrive because they find the crawl-spaces of society that people who are otherwise of good conscience neglect and forget about, and it takes someone reminding society that they're there to go in and send them scurrying.

Like how Alex Jones withered and died once somebody started giving a damn.

The big danger in this regard is the excess of power held by certain major websites and social media platforms where folks like Zuckerburg and Dorsey can defend these assholes, but that too can be resolved through legal changes.

 

[DigitalOp]

We simply shouldn't stay on our side. We should ignore their feelings but we still have to take care of them on a very basic level. They can benefit and grow by being passive recipients of the better policies we push through.

Our endgame is equal stability for all, so they can't be forgotten when we figure out how to reach that end goal, while fighting back against their tantrums and ignoring their appeals that only serve to slow us down.

Click to shrink...

If I had political office, I wouldn't be suggesting to round up Clown Supporters and the like. Obviously thats not the way to move forward, but they def wouldn't occupy my headspace when it comes to policy. That focus would go to the progressives and general ordinary people who need leadership and direction at this time. The honest main issue is that Conservatives are fucking batshit insane in regards to reason and logic. They constantly shoot themselves in the foot and buy into the rhetoric that it was the "evil immigrant muslim black lesbian with a jewish wife" who did the shooting.

Majority of welfare recipients are White People. White. People.

Republicans scream about cutting Welfare everyday despite their constituents being the most affected simply because Black People use the program too.

Me literally supporting the expansion of welfare systems and services means I give more of a fuck about white people than they do for themselves.

Thats a big fucking problem. And it still won't be fixed with rising tide policies.

There's one thing to be said for this, and it's that left-leaning voters are motivated by different things. As much as many anti-Trump activists want to see Fascism get completely stomped, that kind of motivation doesn't play into the psyche of a lot of left-leaning voters who are motivated by positivity and can be turned off by negativity.

I very much agree with the point in the video but there's a reason that Obama but "hope" first.

The point being it's a case where playing dirty might make you less likely to win despite being against an opponent who's full-willing to play dirty. It's a difficult line to tread because you have to counter the foul play but have to do so in a way that maintains your integrity or else you lose your support. Can't kick someone in the sack just because they threw sand in your eyes.

Click to shrink...

So I understand and agree with what you're saying. For sure, the major issue with our politics is that we are all voting AGAINST something rather than FOR. Thats a pretty fucked way to try to establish policy and its tearing the fabric of our system apart.

However, never allow Conservatives to use their favorite weapon: False Equivalency. Its dangerously effective.

The parties have different standards.

When Dems talk about fighting dirty, they mean upping the intensity of language to call these people what they are, Racists, Liars, Thieves

They mean civil disobedience and disturbing those who wish to harm people through policy. Especially when they want to talk shit about Mexicans but want to have a Mexican lunch (seriously, fuck them for that. No Mexican food for you. thats annoying)

They mean social campaigns against companies who support destructive candidates


When Republicans talk about fighting dirty, they mean rolling back voter registration laws and suppressing votes.

They mean gerrymandering district lines to swing elections

They mean ramming their car through a crowd of protestors


Big difference in 'fighting dirty' there. Dems should absolutely focus on policies that will help those and affect change for the most vulnerable. IM AGAINST CLOWN isn't enough. I absolutely agree with you there.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

I want to point out a significant part of his video: that the left isn't as united in policy as the right, which may be as design.

Click to shrink...

GOP is focused on an endgame and not so much specific policy, which is why they're ok with falling in line when time comes to vote. They don't care HOW it gets there, just that it gets there.

 

[wisdom0wl]

Honestly fuck honor. The 'go high' bullshit really does let the right pull the fuckery they do now.

When they go low we gotta smash their ankles with a bat, fuck anything else.

 

[Hey Please]

Watched the video and wow, I am hooked. Going to watch rest of the episodes. Thanks for posting this.

 

[mutantmagnet]

So I understand and agree with what you're saying. For sure, the major issue with our politics is that we are all voting AGAINST something rather than FOR. Thats a pretty fucked way to try to establish policy and its tearing the fabric of our system apart.

However, never allow Conservatives to use their favorite weapon: False Equivalency. Its dangerously effective.

The parties have different standards.

When Dems talk about fighting dirty, they mean upping the intensity of language to call these people what they are, Racists, Liars, Thieves

They mean civil disobedience and disturbing those who wish to harm people through policy. Especially when they want to talk shit about Mexicans but want to have a Mexican lunch (seriously, fuck them for that. No Mexican food for you. thats annoying)

They mean social campaigns against companies who support destructive candidates


When Republicans talk about fighting dirty, they mean rolling back voter registration laws and suppressing votes.

They mean gerrymandering district lines to swing elections

They mean ramming their car through a crowd of protestors


Big difference in 'fighting dirty' there. Dems should absolutely focus on policies that will help those and affect change for the most vulnerable. IM AGAINST CLOWN isn't enough. I absolutely agree with you there.

Click to shrink...

I think you misunderstand his valuable point. One major reason our leaders have to do things the way they do is that they have to appeal to their base.

Even if we completely ignore Republicans and white supremacists the base is filled with rules lawyers and people who think they have a clear understanding of what it means to be realistic.

The author directly tackles this by pointing out how bad ideas will get outnumbered by good ideas and implies that the ends will justify the means.

If I had political office, I wouldn't be suggesting to round up Clown Supporters and the like. Obviously thats not the way to move forward, but they def wouldn't occupy my headspace when it comes to policy. That focus would go to the progressives and general ordinary people who need leadership and direction at this time. The honest main issue is that Conservatives are fucking batshit insane in regards to reason and logic. They constantly shoot themselves in the foot and buy into the rhetoric that it was the "evil immigrant muslim black lesbian with a jewish wife" who did the shooting.

Majority of welfare recipients are White People. White. People.

Republicans scream about cutting Welfare everyday despite their constituents being the most affected simply because Black People use the program too.

Me literally supporting the expansion of welfare systems and services means I give more of a fuck about white people than they do for themselves.

Thats a big fucking problem. And it still won't be fixed with rising tide policies.

Click to shrink...

Well we generally agree that they will benefit from our policies. I do think it is mistake to to go from being so dismissive to ignore their complaints to ignore their existence which is what I'm getting from you. It's the same mistake they clearly made at Chancellorsville and could be making if this Blue Wave is big enough to give at least simple majority to both chambers. We all have to work together to control their tantrums.


Also I wasn't advocating rising tide policies will fix everything. I was merely presenting that as the bare minimum we should do. Personally I think our issues with race need to be tackled directly by offering alternative forms of media that shows the breadth and depth of various minority groups, to pouring energy into local politics where minority groups have near equality if not majorities and organize them better so they can take part in the governing process, to forming a new deal with news media that encourages them to talk about minorities in the same way they talk about white people on the news and increase law enforcement efforts against domestic terrorism and create new standards for recruiting police that excludes white supramcists.

 

[Messofanego]

Will watch, this series has been essential.

 

[RellikSK]

Honestly the alt-right isn't even the issue, it is the 100s of "centrists" that stand in the way that are more annoying and dangerous.

 

[DrForester]

alt-right playbook can be pretty much simplified top "lie to fucking morons"

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

The right-wing and fascists get away with lying and breaking all the rules because they know other people are afraid of upsetting the apple cart and inviting chaos. They won't call the lies out directly, or take direct action against the lies, because this invites a battle and battle is uncertain. See the media being afraid of simply saying that Trump is a liar who doesn't care about the truth as long as his supporters are willing to believe anything he says.

So one side pretends everything is still operating according to the rules and hopes the system will fix everything in the end.

People are afraid of deplatforming racists and fascists, for example, because they don't know what will happen in the resulting conflict. Will the fascist strike back and gain more power? Will I be put in danger? Easier to just tell yourself the system is constructed so that everything will be okay. Thus contemporary fixation on the "marketplace of ideas". There are no dangerous ideas harmful to society - just ideas and the market (the process, the rules, the system) will sort everything out in the end.

 

[Johnny Blaze]

That slogan, just like his proponents, was always detached from reality.

 

[SquirrelSr]

MAGAbomber's twitter account wasn't in violation of anything until he sent out 15 pipe bombs through the mail. All these social media platforms refuse to do anything until it hits their bottom line.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

i'm 5 minutes in and this video is making me angry

republicans are dirty af. don't play their games.

edit: video needs a little bit of a rabranding, tbh. the 'republican playbook' outlined is just as important.

 

[Nepenthe]

There's no 'high' and 'low', just ineffective and effective.

Click to shrink...

This.

People against deplatforming, against partisan behavior, against calling fascists fascists, have utterly failed in providing those who are continually hurt by right-wing apathy and terrorism an alternative solution to their issues, because they are afraid that if there is no arbiter or system in place with which to govern on, then their moral outlook is meaningless, or that it justifies Republicans.

But the issue is, as the video said, liberals have framed their morality around systems instead of results. Better a black man be shot and killed unjustly in a system that fairly elected not to install better police, than for the black man to continue to live in a system where Democrats had to put a boot to the Republicans' necks to reform police for the better.

 

[Deleted member 7130]

Which makes me laugh when people post shit like "be better" when this is what we're dealing with.

 

[More_Badass]

This was a fantastic video. Thanks for the recommendation, channel got a new subscriber

 

[Sinfamy]

Genius video.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

Straight up FACTS all up in this video.

 

[LL_Decitrig]

Conservative playbook*

Click to shrink...

Does the asterisk have a meaning that I can read about?

 

[Quixzlizx]

Honestly the alt-right isn't even the issue, it is the 100s of "centrists" that stand in the way that are more annoying and dangerous.

Click to shrink...

You may be right when it comes to people in power, but when it come to online discussions, I'm convinced that a lot of the "centrists" are actually alt-right trolls. Like the ERA posters who just repeat "Violence is never the answer" and "Free speech is absolute" ad nauseam in threads about opposing Nazi thugs, without ever elaborating on their positions, which is exactly the type of faux-reasonable non-answers they love to use to shit up discourse.

 

[DrKelpo]

subbed, great content

 

[Driggonny]

but have we tried hugging the republicans yet?

 

[AYF 001]

You may be right when it comes to people in power, but when it come to online discussions, I'm convinced that a lot of the "centrists" are actually alt-right trolls. Like the ERA posters who just repeat "Violence is never the answer" and "Free speech is absolute" ad nauseam in threads about opposing Nazi thugs, without ever elaborating on their positions, which is exactly the type of faux-reasonable non-answers they love to use to shit up discourse.

Click to shrink...

I see this a bunch in Yahoo article comment sections too.

"I'm a centrist, but these democrat's behavior is making me vote straight R"
*checks profile, sees 12,000 (not exaggerating) pro-trump comments*

 

[killerrin]

So what discussion is actually happening? We're pretty much telling each other how stupid the other one is.

Click to shrink...

Half the problem though is that they have evolved their methods to count on this. They have trained people to see that if opinions are left unchecked. Then 'they are probably right'. Despite how contrary to the truth it may be.

You have to remember when engaging in verbal combat online, that you are never going to convince the other person that they are wrong. They will never admit that. Instead you are playing to the arena of public opinion. You need to be writing to the people reading those comments. Those are the people that matter the most.

You also need to utilize the tools of straight out calling them on their Whataboutism, their fallacies or straight up saying that the data doesn't support their claims along. A simple Google search is enough to put them in their place and prevent someone else from being converted. You need to put them on the defense.

But also, don't be afraid to make usage of Browser extensions to flag malicious users. I use Masstagger on reddit specifically so I can see who is acting in bad faith out in the opened so that I know who to avoid, who to just downvote, or if I am forced to engage, be able to plot out exactly how I'm going to be doing so effectively. Control the conversation. Control the game. have a plan of retreat once things have gone on too long.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

Half the problem though is that they have evolved their methods to count on this. They have trained people to see that if opinions are left unchecked. Then 'they are probably right'. Despite how contrary to the truth it may be.

You have to remember when engaging in verbal combat online, that you are never going to convince the other person that they are wrong. They will never admit that. Instead you are playing to the arena of public opinion. You need to be writing to the people reading those comments. Those are the people that matter the most.

Even something as simple as calling out that Whataboutism, their fallacies or straight up saying that the data doesn't support their claims along with a simple Google search is enough to put them in their place and prevent someone else from being converted.

But also. Don't be afraid to make usage of Browser extensions to flag.malicious users. I use Masstagger on reddit specifically so I can see who is acting in bad faith.

Click to shrink...

This doesn't work or at least not as well as you think it does. You should watch his early vid in this series titled "Never Play Defense". He puts forth a good argument as to why engaging people who aren't engaging you in good faith aren't worth your time and you're just platforming their views by willingly being a sparring partner.

 

[mikeys_legendary]

TL:DW incoming...

Democrats are wusses. (Wo)Man up and take a stance, or you'll lose every time. You can't play by the rules all the time if your opponent never plays by them.

 

[EdibleKnife]

This doesn't work or at least not as well as you think it does. You should watch his early vid in this series titled "Never Play Defense". He puts forth a good argument as to why engaging people who aren't engaging you in good faith aren't worth your time and you're just platforming their views by willingly being a sparring partner.

Click to shrink...

Here's that vid just 'cause:

 

[killerrin]

This doesn't work or at least not as well as you think it does. You should watch his early vid in this series titled "Never Play Defense". He puts forth a good argument as to why engaging people who aren't engaging you in good faith aren't worth your time and you're just platforming their views by willingly being a sparring partner.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but the thing here, is you don't play defense. If you are going to engage with these people online you need to have a mastery of keeping them on their exact initial points. To quote the first video in his series. You need to control the conversation and put them back on the defensive. You do your quip to prove them wrong and then you immediately put it back at them. Then you hold it at them. If they try to change it, you force them back onto that question and don't move on until you are satisfied.

Basically Don't play their game. Make them play your own.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

Yeah, but the thing here, is you don't play defense. If you are going to engage with these people online you need to have a mastery of keeping them on their exact initial points. To quote the first video in his series. You need to control the conversation and put them back on the defensive. You do your quip to prove them wrong and then you immediately put it back at them. Then you hold it at them. If they try to change it, you force them back onto that question and don't move on until you are satisfied.

Basically Don't play their game. Make them play your own.

Click to shrink...

Nah. Don't waste your time on people that are bullshitting you. Hit that ignore/delete button when you have to.

 

[More_Badass]

That whole section about checks and balances is so much how my dad views things. He's 1) a Republican conservative and 2) a hardcore Mark Levin-influenced "constitutionalist", so as long as the rules of the Constitution are "abided" by, then checks and balances will always win and nothing is bad or wrong with the country. (And of course any liberal/Democrat actions are trying to ruin and tear up the Constitution and thus are un-American)

 

[Crayon]

What a nice clear picture of what is going on here.