The Anti-Anime "Left" is Garbage and Here's Why (Don't Let the Alt-right Claim Anime +Stuff About Orientalism)

[Iloelemen]

https://floatingintobliss.wordpress.com/2019/01/29/the-anti-anime-left-is-garbage-and-heres-why/

Anti-Anime: a dismissal of anime and its related communities and aesthetics characterized by a belief in anime's supposed "backwardness" or "weirdness" relative to western media.

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Our enemies certainly know what their relation to this media must be. Let it not be said that they understand the works they consume, a mere glance at the anime right should put that thought right out of your head, but they know that culture is a battleground, and are preparing for another battle. AnimeGate is nigh-inevitable at this point, it seems likely to happen in the next year, and with conflicts over Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero, and Zombieland Saga scarcely banished from our collective memories, it appears that this will be a fight against the "Western anime industry" of Crunchyroll and Anime News Network, while a number of unfortunate suspects sit by, ready to lead the fight and, if they're lucky, to make a profit from doing so. This obviously their actual aim, let's be clear, they saw how GamerGate worked out for those involved and they wanted. Wait, those guys ended up nowhere? Maybe these new people should try something else. Regardless, while this coming AnimeGate may end up less effective than ComicGate — and that would be saying something — it must be strictly opposed by the left, after all, GamerGate did play a big role in radicalizing many Extremely Online people into outright fascists, though of course, we needn't and shouldn't ally with the companies involved either, only the unfortunate people caught in the crossfire.

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So, let me be clear: for as much as the right ignores reality in acting as if Japan is a safe-haven, free of the SJW scourge, my attentions here are turned towards many members of the left. By accepting that Japanese works are necessarily 'weird' and 'backwards' due to their supposed lack of struggle, they end up infantilizing and depoliticizing an entire nation that is, like any other, political on all fronts, and that ain't the tea, sis.

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Given that it is a real phenomenon in this very site to trash anime as a whole and to trash those sporting anime avatars (which erases, for instance, lots of trans lgbtq+ people sporting anime avatars) I feel like this video feels at home here.

This video talks about Orientalism, the brand of Orientalism that a lot of "progressives" partake in and how this can be both damaging and contribute to pushing the "Nihonjinron" image that japanese nationalists are pushing.

It of course acknowledges that anime isn't representative of Japanese culture as a whole and it also acknowledges that Japan is behind in many issues compared to the west, but the video criticizes how a lot of people ultimately homogenizes Japan which has result of erasing the voices of those struggling and those that are in opposition of the oppression in Japan.

 

[L Thammy]

AnimeGate is nigh-inevitable at this point, it seems likely to happen in the next year, and with conflicts over Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero, and Zombieland Saga scarcely banished from our collective memories, it appears that this will be a fight against the "Western anime industry" of Crunchyroll and Anime News Network, while a number of unfortunate suspects sit by, ready to lead the fight and, if they're lucky, to make a profit from doing so. This obviously their actual aim, let's be clear, they saw how GamerGate worked out for those involved and they wanted.

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This is the part of the OP that my brain is honing in on.

Specifically, I'm not sure I buy that the anime fandom is going to rebel and form a group that's going to radicalize them when I'm pretty sure that element's already there in some subset of the fandom. From the anti-censorship videos on YouTube to the fact that /pol/ arose out of an imageboard that started with /a/.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I agree.

The right doesn't hold dominion over games, and they dont hold dominion over anime or manga. don't give them such a lazy out to take over hobbies. If you see shitheads, call them out for what they are, horrible people in general. it doesn't define the hobby, it defines the people who watch them.

Yes, Japan has right wing assholes with a mindset a century behind just like any place else, and those values can and will seep into media. But don't allow that as justification to dismiss or give credence to groupthink on these issues or the content at large.

 

[deepFlaw]

This kind of video essay isn't my sort of thing, but I might try watching it later; I can really agree with the points posted here.

I just don't know if a formal "AnimeGate" will happen, in that because a lot of the grosser behaviors/terms/whatever just stems from 4chan/channer culture anyway, it feels entirely associated with GG for me. And specifically, the games that tend to be censored in a way that prompts tantrums tend to have an overlap in community/fandom.

So while that may or may not come to pass, it would be very good for people to not lean into these weird generalizations. Not only does it get a little racist to begin with, but it also makes it harder for people to handle these clashes within the fandom when the people that should be supporting them are busy dismissing the entire medium.

EDIT:

And yeah, the "anime avatar" thing is something people should be more aware of. I know a lot of people who aren't comfortable with their appearance and so use characters they feel represent them and their ideal appearance well, for reasons very different than "I want this smug anime girl I like to be the face of me saying horrible nonsense".

 

[Error 52]

Didn't people like Zombie Land? What was the controversy there? I know there was a trans character in it, and that riled up some shitheads, but it seems weird to mention it in the same breath as the other two.

I agree, though. Despite having a weeb avatar I'm actually not like, a huge anime nerd by any stretch, but even back when I watched literally zero anime I always thought it was super petty to shit on the medium outside of the occasional tongue-in-cheek joke. Shit on shows in a case-by-case basis, not as a whole.

 

[samoyed]

Marx called. He said this ain't the dialectic.

(The problem is what's commercially viable skews towards alt right stuff. Let me know when the industry gives a voice to Japan's LGBT like this: https://www.amazon.com/Lesbian-Experience-Loneliness-Nagata-Kabi/dp/1626926034 )

 

[Sparkedglory2]

That little mention about shieldbro hits me since I loved the novel so much. It's just too good for everyone to argue over.

That being said. The alt-right trying to take it over is very disheartening. As well as people hating on it without giving certain shows a chance to actually get going and get their story across.

You can see it every now and then on era with all the avatar hate and people just jumping into the threads to shit on the medium

 

[Iloelemen]

If skulls can be reclaimed by the left, so can anime.

 

[Video Games Are Dumb]

I haven't watched the video yet but I have read the pull quotes.

I think it's tremendously important to continuously remind others that anime and Japanese video games are not an accurate representation of Japan. I know that seems obvious (like, no shit) but some fans tend to overlay what they view in media as a real place. But Japan has serious social problems that are unlikely to be realistically conveyed in cartoons intended to sell figurines. Social isolation, sexual harassment, workplace bullying, and youth suicide are real issues that don't just fix themselves in 22 minutes.

WATCHING ESCAPIST MEDIA IS NOT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF JAPAN'S SOCIAL ISSUES

Once again, this should be fucking obvious. But you'll still see people throw down the "It's a different culture" line as to somehow excuse to really disturbing and objectionable behavior.

So when that alt-right uses japanese cartoons as an endorsement of it's behavior, it's just more bad faith Jordan Peterson style readings of fiction.

 

[Cow Mengde]

This video talks about Orientalism, the brand of Orientalism that a lot of "progressives" partake in and how this can be both damaging and contribute to pushing the "Nihonjinron" image that japanese nationalists are pushing.

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The progressive are racists? Why I never. Progressive these days just means you're better at hiding your racism or partake in diet racism instead.

 

[samoyed]

If skulls can be reclaimed by the left, so can anime.

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https://theoutline.com/post/6809/karl-marx-anime-china-bilibili?zd=1&zi=zu3cqjjl

It's not like I want to seize the means of production or anything, baka!

 

[andymcc]

(The problem is what's commercially viable skews towards alt right stuff. Let me know when the industry gives a voice to Japan's LGBT like this: https://www.amazon.com/Lesbian-Experience-Loneliness-Nagata-Kabi/dp/1626926034 )

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The reality is: most TV anime is produced with a shoe-string budget to advertise series that are long-running in popular manga anthologies or to promote some sort of other product (Gunpla, card games, video games, etc.).

 

[deepFlaw]

Didn't people like Zombie Land? What was the controversy there? I know there was a trans character in it, and that riled up some shitheads, but it seems weird to mention it in the same breath as the other two.

I agree, though. Despite having a weeb avatar I'm actually not like, a huge anime nerd by any stretch, but even back when I watched literally zero anime I always thought it was super petty to shit on the medium outside of the occasional tongue-in-cheek joke. Shit on shows in a case-by-case basis, not as a whole.

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I mean, that's the conflict on that one. People struggling as much as they possibly could to deny that a very clearly trans character was trans.

It got a pretty significant amount of attention from those shitheads, so I think it merits being listed- it was still a conflict, it was just not in a way where anyone involved was criticizing the work. Actually, I saw way more happen around it than the other two series mentioned.

 

[Wein Cruz]

But I need anime to be real..

 

[andymcc]

Also, on the subject itself-- I feel this is a long time coming. In the Goblin Slayer threads even on here, lots of the defense of it reeked of the same crap you'd see during Gamergate.

 

[Kyra]

I feel so bad for Azusa being dragged into this mess.

 

[Deleted member 8777]

Can weebs ever be proletariat?

 

[Yams]

A lot of people will ignore Orientalism because they don't understand, care, or even know what it is

 

[I am a Bird]

I mean the do control bad anime.

 

[samoyed]

Can weebs ever be proletariat?

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The animators who slave away for peanuts are definitely the proletariat.

Weebs are a mixed bag that goes from the bottom class poverty anime pirate to billionaire Elon Musk.

 

[Layla]

A spectre is haunting Europe — the spectre of anime.

 

[Acorn]

"Anime avatar" depends on the place, I don't really let it colour my opinion here but other places like Twitter 9 times out of 10 it seems like it's some asshole.

The Japan stuff I don't really have an opinion. I know very little about Japan beyond some history and videogames.

 

[Verelios]

Anime itself is fine, it's just that a large subset of radicalized GG types use anime avatars so that it's become somewhat of an indicator for people holding those views. Of course anime and hateful people with anime avatars shouldn't be conflated but it's understandable why someone not really vested in the community wouldn't see that.

 

[Yebele]

(Don't Let the Alt-right Claim Anime +Stuff About Orientalism)

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too late

 

[Sanox]

People not overreacting to a series they don't like sure would be a good start to not give a bunch of idiots fuel to "recruit" anyone

The reaction some had towards Goblin Slayer was embarassing and some seem to want to do the same thing again with Shield Hero. You can absolutely talk about the various themes in the series but do it without freaking out, insulting people watching it or reaching to the heavens to find ways to shit on the series.

But no I don't think there is going to be a "Animegate"

 

[samoyed]

A spectre is haunting Europe — the spectre of anime.

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A spectre is haunting the West — the spectre of anime. All the powers of modern Occident have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: President and Prime Minister, Peterson and Chomsky, French anarchists and German conservatives.

Where is the party in opposition that has not been decried as anime by its opponents in power? Where is the opposition that has not hurled back the branding reproach of weebs, against the more advanced opposition parties, as well as against its reactionary adversaries?

 

[jonjonaug]

Marx called. He said this ain't the dialectic.

(The problem is what's commercially viable skews towards alt right stuff. Let me know when the industry gives a voice to Japan's LGBT like this: https://www.amazon.com/Lesbian-Experience-Loneliness-Nagata-Kabi/dp/1626926034 )

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One of the most financially successful shows last year, if not the most successful show period, straight up had a transgender main character in it. Bloom Into You got a lovingly crafted anime adaptation this year and that's one of the best written lesbian romance stories on the market.

In fact here's a bunch of examples of transgender or gender non-conforming characters in anime over the past year, both the good and bad examples: https://blog.yukinogatari.moe/?p=476

 

[Sou Da]

Shield Hero.

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Good lord that premise.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Holy fuck its 40 minutes long. I watched about 5 and it did enough to shift me from being perplexed at how this could possibly be important to kind of getting it though. It would be a shame for kids who find the medium to feel like the only people they share it with are right-wing lunatics. I don't actually know that that is a real danger now.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

Holy fuck its 40 minutes long. I watched about 5 and it did enough to shift me from being perplexed at how this could possibly be important to kind of getting it though. It would be a shame for kids who find the medium to feel like the only people they share it with are right-wing lunatics. I don't actually know that that is a real danger now.

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So far, from what I've watched, the main point is alt-right folks who like anime and progressives/leftists who dislike anime are both engaging in forms of Orientalism that paint Japan as a backwards (for the left) or rigid and traditional (for the alt-right) monocultural Other. How they relate to anime is a good example of this. "Anti-SJW" types view anime as apolitical, progressives see it as socially regressive compared to the West. Both deny the richness and humanity of modern Japan.

 

[Skittles]

Good lord that premise.

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Clearly there hasnt been enough edgy anime

 

[lint2015]

I may be wrong, but I'm not sure anybody is judging others for having an anime avatar. It's okay to like anime and not be a bad person.

But it's not a coincidence that a lot of alt-right sport anime avatars, and it doesn't help that cesspools like 4chan harbour that kind of garbage. Maybe that's something various anime communities should address and establish a no tolerance policy on.

 

[FF Seraphim]

That little mention about shieldbro hits me since I loved the novel so much. It's just too good for everyone to argue over.

That being said. The alt-right trying to take it over is very disheartening. As well as people hating on it without giving certain shows a chance to actually get going and get their story across.

You can see it every now and then on era with all the avatar hate and people just jumping into the threads to shit on the medium

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There are people rallying against Shield Hero?! Why? The book is so good.

 

[UltraGunner]

Every leftist I know is a mega weeb, so we are doing our part

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

watching anime is good praxis, engels would have been a sakuga nerd. no i will not explain

 

[Sparkedglory2]

There are people rallying against Shield Hero?! Why? The book is so good.

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From what I can see it's dropped off a lot, but people were saying they didn't like the

Spoiler

false rape accusation

because it "never happens in real life". Which is absolute bs.

 

[Sou Da]

There are people rallying against Shield Hero?! Why? The book is so good.

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Out of context first glance for the book is "isekai guy gets falsely accused of rape and then gets a slave girl"

 

[FF Seraphim]

From what I can see it's dropped off a lot, but people were saying they didn't like the

Spoiler

false rape accusation

because it "never happens in real life". Which is absolute bs.

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Thats there argument against it? Clearly they were never interested in it in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

There are people rallying against Shield Hero?! Why? The book is so good.

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Dude gets falsely accused of raped + exiled by a scheming woman, gets super bitter and buys a little slave girl to help him out, and takes out his misery on his slave. XD

It's generic isekai, so I'm sure he eventually chills out, becomes like a whitebread decent dude, and gets a gaggle of cute girls in his party eventually, but these authors know what they're doing when they frontload the edginess.

 

[Envelope]

People unironically defending disgusting garbage like shield hero already and we're not even 50 posts in

 

[Sou Da]

Thats there argument against it? Clearly they were never interested in it in the first place.

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No, that's *an* argument against it.

Personally I think the self insert nature of isekai makes the whole premise kinda sus up front.

 

[Sparkedglory2]

Thats there argument against it? Clearly they were never interested in it in the first place.

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From what I saw, yes. It's their loss since they'll be missing out on something great.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

As a Japanese person I feel like people on this forum either see Japan as some amazing fairytale wonderland, or a shit hole filled with the most misogynistic racists in the world.

 

[Sou Da]

As a Japanese person I feel like people on this forum either see Japan as some amazing fairytale wonderland, or a shit hole filled with the most misogynistic racists in the world.

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Signal alone makes me hate it tbh.

 

[Negator]

Imagine defending Shield Hero with trash like this:

 

[FF Seraphim]

From what I saw, yes. It's their loss since they'll be missing out on something great.

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Yep, the LN is great and the anime is decent so far. Haters gonna hate.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

No, that's *an* argument against it.

Personally I think the self insert nature of isekai makes the whole premise kinda sus up front.

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For me it's not the self insert nature, it's the fact that no one ever wants to go back home. It's rarely addressed in these books/anime/manga. For me it's the most defining feature, imo. The whole genre takes it for granted that "yeah, this other world is straight up better fuck my old life and family and friends." It's why so many protagonists have to die before they get transported to their new world - any real lingering attachments to their old life would fuck up the escapism. It's so indulgent.

 

[Fishious]

Thats there argument against it? Clearly they were never interested in it in the first place.

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I feel like this is going to devolve into another thread bickering about specific anime and their merits rather than the actual subject at hand, namely how leftists can dismiss anime as a medium and project the issues they have with anime onto the greater Japanese population. I'm going to get to that later (I'm still going through the video), but wanted to say this before this thread got too hairy.

I've watched Goblin Slayer. I'm currently watching Shield Hero. Both have a number of problematic elements to them and these things are worthy of discussion. In fact there was a multipage discussion in the ERA seasonal anime thread about Shield Hero recently. So it's not an issue of people who were never interested in the show. People who watch a lot of anime and are continuing to watch the series have very real issues with them. Trying to pretend that's not the case does no one any good.

Anyways, I'll be back later after I've watched the rest of the video.

 

[Tohsaka]

I feel like anyone who would be attracted to an "AnimeGate" would likely already be into GG anyway due to the audience overlap, so there's really no point. Everyone I know who likes anime also plays videogames, though the reverse isn't always the case.

 

[Doukou]

I feel like this is going to devolve into another thread bickering about specific anime and their merits rather than the actual subject at hand, namely how leftists can dismiss anime as a medium and project the issues they have with anime onto the greater Japanese population.

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Isn't that taking a medium seriously?