oh nooooooo
Im just gonna quote this to leave this thread on a higher note. It's succinct and 100x more nicely written.
The Anti-Blackness of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
oh nooooooo
Based on his views of black men’s bodies, you can easily imagine what physical features he felt Marina was lacking.
They were dancing around it for sure. That’s why I was trying to get out exactly what they meant but same, I wasn’t expecting THAT to come out.
Like, I’ve seen some absolutely dog shit takes on race whenever black representation is brought up on this site but I’m still kind of shocked he really said that. I keep scrolling up to make sure.
Well said. While the uh... "conversation" that just took place was probably frustrating to a lot of people, I'm super optimistic about threads like this and even conversations like that, that people come out more educated and understanding about stuff like this. I know even people who are being honest and forthcoming will still have differences of opinion on coded or ambiguous characters, but we can have still healthy discussion about those differences and what we feel about representation. Which to be fair, is mainly what goes on in these threads, and I appreciate it.
I think this is a good a moment as any to shout-out Marina's great outfit and characterization in the Octo Expansion.
She might not make the most sense as a Smash character, especially with Inkling already being included, but it would be cool to have her as an Echo fighter even. I'm not even sure who I'd want in Smash, but Marina is probably my favorite "black" Nintendo character regardless.
Always a White person pretending to be a Black online, until the mask slips like this.
Rest in piss.
I’m just gonna say I have always gotten weird vibes from HeroR across their entire post history and if it was a white troll pretending to be black I wouldn’t be surprised.
Anyway...
To me the appeal of Punch-Out is largely in its goofy, larger than life boss characters. That’s why I would prefer Mr. Sandman to Doc Louis. He could be really animated and fun in Smash, especially with taunts. He’s also been in every Punch-Out game. It’s a shame Nintendo doesn’t do more with the IP.
According to their profile, HeroR is female.
he’s not in the arcade Super Punch-Out
other than that he’s got a perfect record
I thought this thread had more posts recently because of Forspoken, didn't expect to find Stormfront talking points.
Yes
Oh absolutely, been doing a lot of dancing in these kind of threads for some time now. But even then, woof
For real, I was read that shit on my phone and had to put it down. Couldn't even respond because there was so much to unpack there.
Let’s talk about Forspoken! Because Frey would be a great character. Forspoken is a new AAA RPG IP made by a Japanese developer that stars a black woman. It’s the closest thing to the “well, it’s not Smash’s fault, maybe if Japanese developers would make the perfect black-lead game Sakurai would consider it” game. (Note that it absolutely is Smash’s fault they don’t have a black character, I’m just summarizing the argument.)
I suppose next you're gonna parrot the old wives' tale that Black People can't swim because they have denser bones or some shit.
Get the fuck outta here man.
Peep what he saying bro.
He ain't black just a poser pretending to be one. The ban was justified.
wow... what the fuck this is almost quentin tarantino django unchained level racism bullshit.
Please let me know if I'm on it. I need to know for science :P
I feel that this is something western studios are better at since we have such a diverse country, full of minorities.
Smash (and most other Nintendo games) are developed by Japanese studios. I've never been to Japan, but I'm fairly confident that there isn't a ton of darker skinned folks living there. I'm also assuming that most of the player base they have overseas are Asian, they don't want to alienate their initial audience by giving them a protag/character that they can't look at and say "wow this character looks like me!". I was initially nervous to post this since I don't want to be banned for simply stating what I see is going on with this situation. I see and understand your concern, but it does feel like a bit of a reach to expect a foreign video game company to comply with your standards and your desire to see more POC. I say this as a POC.
Smash (and most other Nintendo games) are developed by Japanese studios. I've never been to Japan, but I'm fairly confident that there isn't a ton of darker skinned folks living there. I'm also assuming that most of the player base they have overseas are Asian, they don't want to alienate their initial audience by giving them a protag/character that they can't look at and say "wow this character looks like me!". I was initially nervous to post this since I don't want to be banned for simply stating what I see is going on with this situation. I see and understand your concern, but it does feel like a bit of a reach to expect a foreign video game company to comply with your standards and your desire to see more POC. I say this as a POC.
You’re on mine for not liking Xenoblade X
Nah, you’re cool. For NOW.
Its like the most polarizing game I ever played. 1 minute I love it, the next I fucking despise it. A lot of it could be fixed in a remaster though. XC1 wasnt even broken and the remaster fixed it. So there is hope famYou’re on mine for not liking Xenoblade X
Nah, you’re cool. For NOW.
I'm not saying this to be a jerk but this exact thought process has been addressed numerous times throughout the thread's life. I'm not saying it's outright wrong to start out thinking like this, but it's not the bulletproof argument in favour of Nintendo and the games industry it gets touted as.
I agree, and I really hope more people begin to rally around Mr. Sandman. He's actually become one of my most wanted Smash requests in general over the last few months as I've reacquainted myself with the Punch-Out!! series.
First of all, are you Black? Because otherwise you being a POC has nothing to do with this thread.
Secondly, when there are a bunch of white characters in Nintendo games, the comments about them being a homogeneous country seem to fall flat, don't you think? Aren't white people a small minority in Japan? Why are there white characters in Smash but no dark skinned characters from other countries?
Thirdly, are Nintendo not a global company with branches in both America and Europe? Are they not trying to reach a global audience?
Fourthly, why is it okay to take influence from Black culture but not actually represent Black people in your game that's there to celebrate your company's franchises?
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*wakes up from nap* Hey everyone, how's......SWEET CHRISTMAS!!!!!
Well, at least HeroR's banned now.
Well, at least HeroR's banned now.
No argument from me. Square Enix is leading the charge for Japanese companies making new IPs with Black leads. Hopefully the rest follow suit, especially Nintendo & Capcom (though I have some hope for the latter due to the unfortunately-stolen data indicating that they're gonna take representation more seriously going forward).
Mr. Sandman would actually be a great option, one that I did mention in the OP. Granted, it may be easier to rally people behind someone like Twintelle or Marina due to their recency & popularity in their respective franchises. But I wouldn't say no to Mr. Sandman.
Well, Nintendo should do better. Nintendo may be a Japan-based company, but they have global reach.
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I have tried to toy with how you could make a mechanically unique Mr. Sandman that's also true to his in game style, as I too would prefer him over Doc Louis, and it is hard as hell.
The problem is, Mac already hits like a freight train and that is very much Sandman's style territory. With Doc I could design around the idea of him being a more technical fighter and could give him a DLC gimmick with the candy bar.
The problem is, Mac already hits like a freight train and that is very much Sandman's style territory. With Doc I could design around the idea of him being a more technical fighter and could give him a DLC gimmick with the candy bar.
To bring it around to topic, Xenoblade seriously does such a poor job at having any black people in the games. It especially stands on in X because the characters are from America though that doesn’t excuse the other ones.
Neoxon great thread !
This is a real issue and I am glad to see it brought to light in such a detailed and argumented way.
Fully agree with you and even more when even Today wanted to get some games for my son's. Ended up going through the eShop, had a look at Smash and realised once more there is a problem there.
This is a real issue and I am glad to see it brought to light in such a detailed and argumented way.
Fully agree with you and even more when even Today wanted to get some games for my son's. Ended up going through the eShop, had a look at Smash and realised once more there is a problem there.
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Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully Smash’s anti-Blackness is rectified going forward so it can become a game you’re more comfortable with letting your son play.
What the fuck is this???
Every time I pop into the thread it gets even worse takes. Is there a challenge out there to post the most racist shit you can think of? God damn.
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Yeah, this thread really brought out the shitheads. At least they were properly dealt with by the mods. Though it's kinda funny how I napped through the worst of it.
Why can't racist not resist showing their ass in any topics involving minorities?
As for the topic at hand...as a minority (Asian not black)...I believe Nintendo can and should do better for representations in their IP's. It's fair to demand better representation for POC and other minorities and not just representation, but also in better roles not just side/joke/unimportant characters.
I know Japan, and Asia in general are not really exposed to POC alot be it Black or brown people except what is shown in mass media, and unfortunately those same media usually don't show POC in a positive light, or are extremely stereotypical (Ex. Black people are gangsters or rappers, brown people are terrorist or Saudi oil barons ect.).
As for the topic at hand...as a minority (Asian not black)...I believe Nintendo can and should do better for representations in their IP's. It's fair to demand better representation for POC and other minorities and not just representation, but also in better roles not just side/joke/unimportant characters.
I know Japan, and Asia in general are not really exposed to POC alot be it Black or brown people except what is shown in mass media, and unfortunately those same media usually don't show POC in a positive light, or are extremely stereotypical (Ex. Black people are gangsters or rappers, brown people are terrorist or Saudi oil barons ect.).
It always happens when I am away as well.
Oh well, I don't like engaging with racists so that's probably a good thing.
Great thread Neoxon, doing work as usual. Nintendo can certainly do better to represent the diversity of their customers in their products and I see nothing wrong with bringing awareness to that, that goes for Nintendo and any other company quite frankly. Nobody is strong-arming them to make changes to their games but it's certainly not going to hurt anybody to see more black faces amongst the Smash roster. I mean I wanted Elma and a lot of folks don't even consider her Black for spoiler reasons which is understandable but I'll take what I can get since I love XCX.
Marina could be her own character. There are plenty of weapons to choose from, and Splatoon 2, her debut game, introduced the Splat Dualies, so that's already a new basis for a moveset right there.
I just got finished reading this thread and that last page, wow.
Great thread as usual, Neoxon.
Great thread as usual, Neoxon.
I would love Mr. Sandman in Smash. I definitely feel he makes the most sense for a second Punch-Out rep given his Boss Character status in most games.
I've got a question for Neoxon and other POC seeing this thread. What's your opinion on color altering mods? I was just thinking, I came across this nice fan made BLM Mythra Mod
Now, imagine if a basic color edit mode was added to Smash and this was shareable like other content. If people made stuff like this not only would it satisfy a lot of the demand for aesthetic mods but I think it could serve the purpose of getting the message out there to Sakurai/Nintendo that people want more characters or at least alts that look like them.
I'm not saying this would be some miraculous cure that would fix everything. Absolutely not. But you know, it could be a least a tiny baby step in the right direction. Or is this just dumb ignorance on my part? I apologize if so.
Now, imagine if a basic color edit mode was added to Smash and this was shareable like other content. If people made stuff like this not only would it satisfy a lot of the demand for aesthetic mods but I think it could serve the purpose of getting the message out there to Sakurai/Nintendo that people want more characters or at least alts that look like them.
I'm not saying this would be some miraculous cure that would fix everything. Absolutely not. But you know, it could be a least a tiny baby step in the right direction. Or is this just dumb ignorance on my part? I apologize if so.
It doesn’t really address the problem, but it doesn’t hurt it. More of a punt on the issue. I’d welcome it nonetheless, but it’s about more than mere skin color.
