• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Vonnegut

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,082
This past week, a Christian missionary named John Chau was slain by the Sentinelese tribe, a hunter-gatherer group of people who live on North Sentinel, an island in the Andaman sea. The Senintelese do not take kindly to foreigners and will attack with arrows if they are approached by outsiders. The Indian government has forbidden people to see go to the island.

Naturally, John Chau and a group of missionaries to which he belonged thought it would be a good idea to go there and try to convert the tribe to Christianity.

The tribe shot arrows at the group and Chau managed to survive the first attack, but he tried again the next day and was slain.

Now, onto the part that relates to my title. There are at least three threads in r/Atheism that are responses to this event. Here are two of them.

Thread 1 title: "Extremely annoyed at this vulgar display of religious arrogance"

In thread one, the OP expresses annoyance (and disgust) at the family of the slain missionary for forgiving the Sentinelese tribe for killing him.

The OP equates the modern missionaries of today with the missionaries of the past who preceded the massacre of natives and the destruction of civilizations.

The OP's primary argument for why he is angry is that the missionary likely carried diseases that would have (and might still) destroyed the Sentinelese.

Thread 2 title: "Despite what the fundies day, John Chau wasn't killed for being a Christian missionary. He was killed by his own stupidity. He was a fucking criminal who flagrantly disregarded the law and put the health of an isolated tribe in jeopardy to further a bullshit ideology. I don't feel sorry for him."

The OP of this thread reiterates that the missionary risked spreading illnesses to the Sentinelese. He also stresses that the missionary was a criminal for breaking the law, which I think is the weakest part of his argument, since I believe that it's appropriate to debate the morality or benefit of someone's actions rather tha whether or not they broke a law.

The last sentences of the thread are: "This fucking moron got what he deserved. Do stupid shit, enjoy shitty consequences."

Now, I'm not saying that these people in r/Atheism don't have valid concerns. What I am saying is that these people are practically celebrating the death of this naive Christian missionary.

Each of these threads was guilded three times, which means people spent real money to reward them.

While I agree that the missionaries should not have gone to the island to try to convert the Sentinelese tribe, I strongly disagree with the vicious remarks from many of the people who frequent the r/Atheism subreddit.

Frankly, despite them subscribing to the rational, empirical position regarding the supernatural, these Reddit atheists can be aggressive, arrogant, and immature.

Calling god an "imaginary sky daddy" doesn't make them seem smarter. It makes them sound like snarky, pompous, assholes.

When I was reading these threads, I imagined the OPs looking like this:

GettyImages_1042005510.0.jpg
 

Doober

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
4,295
Atheists can be knobs, especially on a forum like reddit, but ain't none of those arguments wrong.
 

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,355
Are you sure you weren't reading the ResetEra thread about that? Sounds pretty much identical.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
r/Atheism is highly tribalistic, as are a lot of outspoken "atheist" internet groups.

They're not wrong though, and Chau definitely posed an existential threat to the Sentinelese even if he didn't mean to (he probably knew it regardless, but his mission outweighed that).

If your problem is with the rhetoric specifically, we live in strange times and there's vitriol coming from a lot of places. That's not going to change until the surge of right wing nationalism peters out. At its peak toxicity, gaming side was not so different from what you described, and that didn't even involve potential genocide.
 

Zoc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,017
You could have picked better examples, imo. You don't have to be atheist to dislike missionaries.
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
I'm confused why the first one is upset the family forgave the tribe if said poster believes the actions of the tribe were justified. I don't know how much of this is me missing context.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,578
I wouldn't say the missionary was naive. If you read up on that tribe's interactions with missionaries of the last century, it's fraught with horrors. People will do horrible things to others in the name of and in service to their god.
 

sayuuna

Member
Sep 6, 2018
548
臺灣 「 臺北市 」
Yeah as much as I hear your argument, a lot of the disregard I have for these situations stem from the website and its propensity to produce ignorant content, sometimes to the extreme.
 

brandywine

Member
Oct 27, 2017
166
In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,108
The era thread about that didn't really strike a very different tone.

People are very heavy handed online.

EDIT: Looks like the tone of some of the posts in this thread will also parallel the reddit ones.

I'm confused why the first one is upset the family forgave the tribe if said poster believes the actions of the tribe were justified. I don't know how much of this is me missing context.
Based on OP, it reads that the thread's saying that there's nothing to forgive. They're arrogant in forgiving them, because forgiveness implies wrongdoing. Some might even feel that an apology is more appropriate.
 

Conor419

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,320
London
I was uncomfortable with the people laughing at the death of what seemed like a decent man; however, we must ensure that we attack religion for the lives it ruins, including the victim of this event.
 

Karasseram

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,358
He was a shit head for going there and risking the whole tribe which has no immunity against the diseases we are carriers of. It's fucking arrogant to think your going to wade in and be white savior no these people don't need your Jesus or your modern world they just need to be left alone.

He reaped what he sowed.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
I'd also like to add I don't really disagree with their points, however vitriolic. I am someone that did not have much sympathy either.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,939
Yeah those people suck but none of the arguments that you mention in the op are wrong or even really questionable. The legality thing is kind of simplistic, sure, but if you just look at the morality of his actions there was nothing moral about them whatever. Lots of people don't know how to be remotely empathetic to those with different perspectives which stops their points from landing even if they absolutely correct
 

legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252
As an Atheist, I just tend to shut the fuck up. Theres no convincing people that believe in an imaginary wizard in the sky. I WILL fucking yell when they lean on religion to jusufy being bigots or murderers tho
 

Mimosa97

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,754
Chau could have wiped out the entire population. And he wasn't " naive ". He was a grown ass man who was told again and agian not to approach them and that he posed a real danger to them. But he was convinced he was " special " and wanted to bring the " gospel " to people who didn't ask for shit. I mainly blame his parents and his church for brainwashing him since childhood but he's not really a victim here.

Having said that, I'm not surprised that people on r/atheism are having a schadenfreude over the death of this young man. Plenty of awful people will use rational argument to justify their lack of compassion/humanity.
 

Lkr

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,524
I mean did you really not know what r/atheism was? I feel like I'm reading a thread from 2012

That said, none of these examples seem bad. I don't get the vibe anyone is celebrating his death. I also have no sympathies for this missionary though, people like him come across as complete lunatics
 

Leek

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
732
People on the internet are happy to openly celebrate the death of somebody they don't like. We even had a thread here the other day in which many of the posts were cheering for the fact that somebody had died. It's not really something exclusive to r/Atheism.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,016
They aren't incorrect at all, I don't see the problem.

And ALWAYS remember that oppressed minorities are angry for a fucking reason and I'm glad there are places like r/atheism where they can talk/vent about the problems that religion brings to the world and their personal lives, even if I don't think this is a case of that.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
If the news had come out as "'Uncontacted' tribe of Sentinel Island decimated by disease spread by a missionary" I assure you you'd feel very differently about this.
 

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,388
Seoul
They're definitely not wrong, especially in this situation. It's an iron/stone age tribe they aren't gonna give modern justice or whatever to "invaders".

He could have easily killed off that tribe by just being there
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,933
I was uncomfortable with the people laughing at the death of what seemed like a decent man; however, we must ensure that we attack religion for the lives it ruins, including the victim of this event.
Decent man or not, his legacy is now dying while trying to destroy an undocumented culture. Internet atheists can be massive arseholes (as well as massive hypocrites about proselytising), but they're not entirely wrong in this case.
 
OP
OP
Vonnegut

Vonnegut

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,082
I'm confused why the first one is upset the family forgave the tribe if said poster believes the actions of the tribe were justified. I don't know how much of this is me missing context.

The poster is upset because he believes that the tribe was totally within its right to kill John Chau. The poster believes that the family of the slain missionary is in no position to forgive the tribe, and that their son bears full responsibility for what happened.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
Oh. When I saw the thread title I thought it was gonna be calling out New Atheists for their general intolerance and Islamophobia. Which would be perfectly valid. But nah. You're just criticizing them for saying something that is completely valid. Fuck anyone who puts indigenous people at risk in the way this missionary did.
 

ScandiNavy

Banned
Apr 13, 2018
1,551
Norway
They weren't wrong, though. Based on the examples you provided, that is.

I struggle to find your point with this thread, to be completely honest.
 

cnorwood

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,345
Religious people need to understand that just because you see your religion as pure good does not mean everyone else does. This comes off as "Why taunt some guy who died trying to spread good in the world?" Well they didn't think it was good and they shouldn't given the history of Christianity and missionaries. If a Scientologist did the same you would laugh too
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,578
That doesn't mean you have to laugh at someone's death.........................
But maybe in some cases, the Darwin Awards exist for a reason, and fools should be held up as examples so others are encouraged to not repeat the same mistakes?

People laugh at death all the time. It is a natural response. If you witness a horrific accident in real time, as it's unfolding, that is the body and mind's way of coping.

Gallows humour exists for a reason, because it's been a part of human culture for a very long time.
 

Invictus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
653
I'm having a hard time disagreeing with any of the examples you provided. I guess I'm an asshole too for not wanting people with no immunity to our diseases not to get wiped the fuck out.
 
OP
OP
Vonnegut

Vonnegut

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,082
They're definitely not wrong

You agree that John Chau got what he deserved?

I read that after he was shot and killed with arrows, his body was torn apart. I don't think he deserved that.

Also, I am of the opinion that the Sentinelese tribe is allowed to remain undisturbed because scientists want to study their culture from a distance. The Sentinelese tribe probably would benefit from modern medical advances and modern farming techniques and all sorts of modern inventions, but instead their anachronistic existence is fascinating to academics so we leave them alone.

We were born to a family with access to modern comforts by chance. Imagine being born to a Sentinelese mother. You would be surrounded by a world of modern civilizations who have decided that the best thing to do for you and your family is to watch you from a distance.
 
Dec 9, 2017
1,431
Most lose that initial "I just stopped going to church last week" smugness after a while but there are quite a few who are dickheads who never grew out of that stage. Any forum or thread dedicated to atheism is going to be packed with those types.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.