Before I read the article, I wasn't sure how I felt about it.
After reading the article, I think they made the right decision.
After reading the article, I think they made the right decision.
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[The Atlantic] My wife was dying, and we didn't tell our children
- Thread starter Kieli
- Start date
I feel like a reaction this visceral deserves unpacking.
- In what sense is it "fucked up"?
- Even if you think you should be told right away, do you genuinely see no reasoning at all (either logically or emotionally) as to why they might want to withhold it for at least a little while? Like, none all? And if so, why? This needs elaboration?
- Why would it make you stop talking to them for a period of time? Presumably you are at least partially upset that you have been robbed of the ability to maximise your time with them with the clock ticking, which makes shunning them completely illogical?
Doctors sometimes in Japan don't tell the patient they are terminal, just the relatives. Both ways are fucked up.
If you know about it it completely changes your actions. You can be there to help support them. You can be there to do things with them you wouldn't otherwise do. You can help support research causes and search for treatments.
Not being told robs you of all of this and you're left with nothing left but resentment and regret. Even if some of this would still remain if you knew all along, you would have way more by never knowing in the first place. My grandfather pulled this shit on my dad, it's awful.
You can have some time not to say it but the family should know well ahead of time if possible. If not possible they should know ASAP.
None of this is incorrect, but that may not be what they need or want. If the ill person needs those things from their kids and can't get them elsewhere, they will tell them.
Like I said earlier in the thread I have some skin in this particular game. I have enough, (i.e. too many) people already offering me sympathy, support, advice etc. You would be surprised how easy it is to get "sympathy fatigue" where you get so fucking sick of people worrying about you, to the point where you start being short/rude with them because you just can't have the fifth conversation that day about "what did the doctor say exactly.... did he say the cells were on the margin or just close... did they say this was more precautionary than serious... do they seem like a good doctor? Did they sound grim or optimistic? do you need a ride to the hospital... what's the parking situation? Did you ask about that trial I mentioned... why haven't the6 called about a follow up appointment yet, have you heard from the income protection insurance people yet... we hate the thought of you sitting home by yourself, we will come visit... what should we bring etc etc"
What I want for, and from my son while I am in treatment is to see him happy, living an innocent childhood and unburdened by scenarios and fears that he isn't able to effectively deal with at his age. I want to see him burst in the door from daycare exciting to show me the caterpillar he made from an egg carton and pipe cleaners rather than see the fear and confusion on his face when I tell him that there were cancerous cells right up to my margin, followed by a lecture of "Radiotherapy explained for three year olds."
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That's some total bs dude. It's also completely infantilizing. Like oh I'm sorry you don't respect my own intelligence or mental stability enough to tell me, I'm just your own child. It'll be much better when you're just dead some day and I'll I know is that you didn't think I could be bothered to know.
When my dad was put in a similar situation he immediately let everyone know because of the pain the alternative causes and because he respects us. There wasn't a costant doom and gloom over all interactions, it was the opposite.
So like I said, hiding near death is bs and I wouldn't forgive it. I guess it works out for the dying person because they don't have to deal with the fallout.
You seem very black and white about it all and taking everything to its extremes. To start with, the scenario isn't about them not knowing until your dead. It's about waiting for the right time in the eyes of the ill person. Secondly, suggesting that not telling your child straight away means you don't respect them or their intelligence is a very hot take. There seems to be a strong sense in your argument that the parent in these scenarios is being "selfish" but when you flip it around, it kinda comes across that you are putting yourself at the centre of everything... not really considering the person actually dying and what they might want from their remaining short time on earth.
The only thing I think I can agree with is that yes, I am infantilizing my three year old child. Guilty as charged.
The only really correct answer in this thread is that every family is different, and that the realities of a terminal illness strike at the equilibrium like nothing else. People will do what they think is right in the situation and there is really no objectively right approach that applies across the board.
Think of it this way- for the rest of their life, no matter what anyone tells them, your child will have a nagging voice in the back of their mind wondering if they weren't important enough/you didn't like them enough to tell them you were dying. And nothing will ever make that go away.
No. Do not do this to your kids or family. My wife has a friend this happened to (her dad died) and it's still affecting their life everyday.
It's a difficult situation, and i have been in this one, not as child, as a grown up, but i would protect the children. There is no need for them to know, and even if you know, you will never be prepared for what is coming and how are you gonna feel. I knew it for 6 years, and though i was prepared, but when it happened it destroyed me. And i also didn't have any life for 6 years, cause i wanted to spend as much time as possible with my mother, and i enjoyed my time with her, but you will also miss on soooo many things in this time.
So yeah, i can fully understand this decision!
So yeah, i can fully understand this decision!
Why do I have to think of it that way? That is not in any way an objective truth or guaranteed outcome.
I could just as easily say "for the rest of their life, that child will be in awe of the incredible bravery, love and selflessness their parent showed by letting them have as many joyous last days together with without unnecessarily tarnishing years of their childhood with fear, uncertainty and the spectre of death"
Both scenarios are on the far extreme of pessimism and optimism. The reality would probably be somewhere between the two, because you know what... life is messy, nuanced, confusing... people do what they feel is best in situations of extreme angst and uncertainty. You'd do well to be a little more open to that. You can empathise with people without necessarily agreeing with their particular decisions. It's part of growing up.
It is a guaranteed outcome. It's what will happen. Look at all the other people in this thread on that side of the situation that say similar things. ESPECIALLY if you've told people who aren't your kids.
But like I said, it's not like you'll have to deal with it so you do you I guess
Um, how about you look at the kids in the actual article being discussed?
It's quite unbelievable at this point how you are applying your particular emotional reaction as a universal constant that applies to everyone.
User Warned: Insensitive and antagonistic behavior
The kids in article got fucked over too. It'll Shadow them for the rest of their lives.
It's just wild to me that you're ruining your kids life because you're afraid they will have a negative reaction while simultaneously think they'll have a positive enough response after the fact to not hate you for it.
Wow, you're an asshole to go there. A total asshole. I don't need to engage with this shit any longer.
I still hope you don't have to face the same dilemma one day. It's not fun.
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My mom died while my dad and brothers were on vacation, and after I called my dad and told him, he decided not to tell my brothers until they returned from the vacation 3-4 days later, so that they could enjoy themselves. They resented him for it for years and it messed up their grieving process pretty badly. He made a number of other mistakes with how he handled the situation but that one sticks out to this day.
I already told you that I don't have to because my dad did the right thing.
This sacrifice meant their kids could enjoy their childhood for a little while longer. Nobody should judge.
The fuck?
The fuck?
The end of that article hit like a truck.
I'll echo the posters saying there is no right or wrong choice. Truly a depressing dilemma.
My mom passed away in cancer when I was about four years old and I honestly don't remember what they told me or didn't tell me. Got some faint recollection of waking up one moring and dad telling me that mom is in heaven now (not a religions family but I guess that's much easier for a child to coprehend rather than the meaning of death.
My brother, four years older, probably knew and understood more about what was going on. Can't imagine how it must have been through his eyes, nor my parents.
I suppose trying to make the best of the time giving is all that matters. The way I see it, that does not really sit well with telling everyone about the horrors that await. But I'd respect either decision.
I'll echo the posters saying there is no right or wrong choice. Truly a depressing dilemma.
My mom passed away in cancer when I was about four years old and I honestly don't remember what they told me or didn't tell me. Got some faint recollection of waking up one moring and dad telling me that mom is in heaven now (not a religions family but I guess that's much easier for a child to coprehend rather than the meaning of death.
My brother, four years older, probably knew and understood more about what was going on. Can't imagine how it must have been through his eyes, nor my parents.
I suppose trying to make the best of the time giving is all that matters. The way I see it, that does not really sit well with telling everyone about the horrors that await. But I'd respect either decision.
Best not to waste your time there.
I appreciate your giving your perspective and trying to at least be reasonable about the topic that has no easy answers. Especially when it comes to young kids. All the best to you in your treatment and recovery.
It has an easy answer, it's just not easy to do. Apparently not everyone's up to the task.
This. I believe that once you have kids, your life is no longer just yours. That life is yours and theirs. They have as much say in it as you do. If you lie to them, you are robbing them of what precious time they have. How awful would it be for them to forever be reminded the last words to a loved one were said in anger? I can understand the desire to shield, but I cannot support it.
That's a hard decision to make when you're actually put in that situation. I think the ages of the kids would be really important in making that decision for me. I probably wouldn't tell my kids either unless they were teenagers. I believe he made the right call.
There isn't really any way to "shelter" them from death in this context; they were always going to find out no matter what. There is no real benefit to exposing them to the protracted grief and hopelessness of a situation like this. They waited until death was close and then told the kids in a comfortable place during a time of year where they'd be able to spend days grieving without the embarrassment of crying in school.
She lived for nearly 10 years. If you don't think the thought of today is the day your mom might die, for 10 years, won't have a negative impact on a kid's psyche then I don't know what to tell you.
Nah man, didn't you hear, I'm ruining my three year olds life. I should stop him learning letters, numbers and animal names so I can unload all the details of my cancer on him at once, including journal articles and statistic survival rates over 5 to 10 years. I should have got the surgery team to film themselves cracking open my sternum. Beats Peppa Pig any day.
I am also disrespecting him and his intelligence, and he is going to hate me forever and think that I thought he isn't important enough to be told.
It's all such a simple black and white equation if only I was "up to to the task".
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There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to these things, I totally sympathise for anyone in this scenario. When my mum had cancer my siblings and I were 19, 24 and 26 and the emotional burden is a lot even at that age, it must be a hundred fold more difficult when there are kids involved.
Thanks team.
As I said in my first post, my situation isn't anywhere near as hopeless as the subject of the article, but the worst case scenario still can't be ruled out at this stage, as my type of cancer (thymoma) is very rare and relatively less understood. The uncertainly makes it even harder in some ways to know what to say and when, as does my son's young age.
I really cannot stress enough how much of a curveball it all is though, and you really can't judge people on how they go about it, even if you've been through it yourself. Everyone is different, everyone is doing what they feel is right.
What I will judge though, is anyone who tries to claim it's a clear, black and white issue, or even worse, claims that people who choose one path over another somehow don't love or respect their kids or are taking the "easy way out". That is a revolting thing to say. It's an incredibly tough call to make, not just in whether to tell them or not, but also how much to tell them, when, how. It's agonising.
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I would rather be able to share in the joy of knowing my parent outlived the prognosis than find out retroactively that she was keeping a dark secret from me for a decade.
Cool, that's your preference.
Now can you perhaps allow for the faintest possibility that the woman and her partner in the article maybe had a better insight to their particular family's dynamics and made the best judgement call they could under the circumstances? Or are you better placed to decide for them?
It is sheltering. I think this line of thought of yours is very similar to the logic that cheaters use - that not telling someone something important isn't actually lying. You're "doing it to protect them". "Telling them would only hurt".
Well, as I and others have told you, you're not protecting them. Hiding something like this from those close to you send out a message - you're not close enough to me for me to share this information with you. That's the message that the kids will be getting. The stuff about kids being in anguish and having a horrible childhood because their parent is honest with them? Sorry. but that just sounds like a horrible joke.
Like this
Which is just pure projection. They sound like people who aren't dealing with this that well, and then mishandle the situation because of that. Which happens, and I'm not going to fault someone in such an emotional and confused state, but I will tell you that it is indeed mishandling the situation.
What I think is happening there, is that you're protecting yourself from the harsh truth. Not having to explain it all to your kids, not having to handle and guide them through this difficult time. It's difficult, and it would be a bother. I can understand that you'd rather not have that and live on with your kids like everything is fine. But don't pretend like you're doing it for the kids. Be honest and admit that you're doing it for yourself, and don't advise other people to do the same, when the ones actually affected by it are here telling you otherwise.
Grug your kid is 3, the problem is that she literally won't understand. Your seem to actually be telling your kid what's going on, so that's alright. I don't think you should be taking this personally. And there is no right way of handling something like this. I most definitely sympathize with your situation.
...right. Thanks for your contribution: didn't really need to consider any of the rest after this gem. You're a goddamned fool if your primary takeaway from this story and the circumstances within is "The compassionate thing to do would've been to subject the children to 10 years of worry and anguish".
Bit hard not to take it personally when a poster explicitly tells you you are ruining your kids life, you don't respect them and that they are guaranteed to hate you for it.
I'm not calling you a cheater, and I'm not calling people in general who do this cheaters. The logic is just very similar. As I say, in the same post that you neglected to read, I understand and sympathize people who do this (not cheaters, mind you).
Is there a case to be made for a reasonable period of notice though. Somewhere appreciably after diagnosis but also appreciably before death bed?
Not sure whether a kid carrying the stress and fear for six years passes the cost benefit analysis test over maybe them being somewhat sheltered from it for at least half that time.
Something worth discussing in a thread that has become a bit black and white.
Grug
There is really no clear answer, do it the way you think it's the best, and children should be protected. Stay strong, much much love from me!
@death
Someone saying my way is the only way is just dumb, i'm sorry. Everyone is different, everyone has a different connection to their loved ones. As i said above, my mom told me when she found out, but she was also supposed to live only for few months at that time, but she lived for 6 years. I took care of her and everything, didn't have a life, because i always knew she would die, and the whole situation really fucked me, and even 2 years after her death i'm still doing with the consequences of giving everything i had (of my own choosing), and could give for her. Watching all my friends having normal lives, building careers, starting family/relationships... and i'm still at zero after 8 years, and it will still take me a long time just to accept anyone by my side, cause i feel so empty/exhausted, and i'm still not over it (do people ever get over it?), so how is this also not fucked up? Death/Sickness is just a terrible burden on anyone, the people having it, and people taking care of someone who has it.
I just wish anyone who has to go through this experience much love and strength, and find people you can talk about your struggles, or get real help, whatever helps you.
There is really no clear answer, do it the way you think it's the best, and children should be protected. Stay strong, much much love from me!
@death
Someone saying my way is the only way is just dumb, i'm sorry. Everyone is different, everyone has a different connection to their loved ones. As i said above, my mom told me when she found out, but she was also supposed to live only for few months at that time, but she lived for 6 years. I took care of her and everything, didn't have a life, because i always knew she would die, and the whole situation really fucked me, and even 2 years after her death i'm still doing with the consequences of giving everything i had (of my own choosing), and could give for her. Watching all my friends having normal lives, building careers, starting family/relationships... and i'm still at zero after 8 years, and it will still take me a long time just to accept anyone by my side, cause i feel so empty/exhausted, and i'm still not over it (do people ever get over it?), so how is this also not fucked up? Death/Sickness is just a terrible burden on anyone, the people having it, and people taking care of someone who has it.
I just wish anyone who has to go through this experience much love and strength, and find people you can talk about your struggles, or get real help, whatever helps you.
That's fine. As I said earlier in the thread there is no right or wrong answer. For every kid that might be rejoicing over their parent living another day there is another kid that won't leave her room because today might be the day.
Oh yeah. Uncalled for, especially to you in your situation. I agree with the saying that there's no right way to handle these kinds of situations. You're overwhelmed with emotions, I'm not going to blame you for not handling it in the best way possible, you can't expect that from anyone. No one handles it in the best way possible, no one can.
Depends on the age, IMO from whenever they can appreciably understand the situation itself, it should be as soon as possible. Every delay between diagnosis and telling them is going to be a period of lies. The shorter the better I would say. All that matters really is that the parent is prepared to talk about it. Children will be able to handle it fine as long as you can talk openly to them about it. Good idea would be to talk to a family therapist about this, so you can get feedback on the best way for you and your family to handle it.
My brother is in a similar situation. He has stage 4 lung cancer so it's statistically unlikely he lives 5 more years. He has two kids that are under 10 years old, he has told them he has cancer but they are too young to really understand it and he and his wife don't really want to get into the details until things start to get worse.
That's really impressive keeping up day to day activities while also successfully masking the illness, and for many years.
As my own family grows and my wife and I expect our child in a few months, these sort of stories really affect me because... what the heck do you do?
I love my wife so much, and I know that one day one of us will pass, but there's this hope and expectation that that day is 60+ years from now.
She lost HER mother when she was a teenager. I can't imagine what that's like, nor do I ever wish for my daughter to grow up without her amazing mother. I'm not sure I could take it either.
I love my wife so much, and I know that one day one of us will pass, but there's this hope and expectation that that day is 60+ years from now.
She lost HER mother when she was a teenager. I can't imagine what that's like, nor do I ever wish for my daughter to grow up without her amazing mother. I'm not sure I could take it either.
I always considered myself pretty non-resilient and always assumed I'd fall over in a heap if ever confronted with something like this. But it is genuinely amazing how after the shock wears off how quickly you can get your head around things and start moving forward. There is a natural desire to take action because it feels a little bit like being in control, and I think in a way it kind of helps that cancer treatment is so involved. There is always an upcoming appointment or treatment so there is a feeling of continual progress.... kinda like grinding in an RPG.
My radiation therapy is going to be a new level of grinding though. Got to go to the hospital every week day for 6 weeks. Still, keeps you focussed. The challenge is to remember to keep living life normally in the spaces in between .
I can't put into words how pissed I would be if my family didn't tell me my mother was dying. That's is I'm never talking to any of you ever again territory.
How does disclosing the number of days she has left teach them about mortality any more than just her dying?