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Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,673
Thing is, Mallory and Sarsour have a decision to make. They can stay at the forefront of a wonderful and powerful movement or they can stand behind their support of Farrakhan. They can't do both. I get that Mallory's relationship with NOI is powerful and helped shape who she is, but she's at a crossroads now and can't have it both ways.

If they persist or ignore the pleas to denounce NOI, they will be hurting their cause which is just selfish.
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
3,435
It's not a reach when you post a shitty article that makes excuse for a racist organization, and then when that article is criticized, you get personal and say stupid shit like "Yeah, I'm not surprised you're opinion is what is" without any context of what you're referring to. If that's not where you were going after, that's on you. This isn't the kid's table. Say what you mean and mean what you say especially given what is being discussed.

I posted an opinion article from The Root, a black blogger site, with quotes, of why SOME posters were twisting themselves in knots over this particular story. I NEVER got personal and said "Yeah, I'm not surprised you're opinion is what is" in response to YOUR criticism. I wasn't quoting an opinion. I responded to what the OP said about Powdered Egg. Reducing his comment to "Jews can Suck it." I WASN'T EVEN QUOTING YOUR ASS!!!!! Again, what the entire FUCK are you talking about? You yourself are twisting in knots trying to be correct. You are WRONG.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,611
Australia
Look at the Women's March Board and see some Jewish names. The Jewish women on the board could have been the first people to toss Tamika under the bus but didn't. Why not? Probably because they had a common cause as women to fight a patriarchal society that has deemed them subservient playthings for men since time immemorial. It doesn't matter if you are any race, ethnicity, or religion, women around the world have a common enemy. These sisters set aside any possibly conflicting differences and put together something beautiful. When you're in the trenches with bullets whizzing at you isn't the time to argue about differences, you're at war. Similar thing with the Civil Rights Movement, we had everyone from religious preachers to gang members fighting for Human Rights. It's complex.

Unless you happen to be a woman that's also trans, then you can go pound rocks:

The Feb. 25 speech, which was given at an event for Saviour's Day, a religious gathering of the Nation, ran for almost three hours. During it, Mr. Farrakhan said that the "powerful Jews" were his enemies, and that Jews were "responsible for all of this filth and degenerate behavior that Hollywood is putting out turning men into women and women into men," as well as other incendiary remarks.

xpdjc8wpisb3.jpg
 
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sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
User Warned: Personal Attacks
I posted an opinion article from The Root, a black blogger site, with quotes of why SOME posters were twisting themselves in knots over this particular story. I NEVER got personal and said "Yeah, I'm not surprised you're opinion is what is" in response to YOUR criticism. I wasn't quoting an opinion. I responded to what the OP said about Powdered Egg. Reducing his comment to "Jews can Suck it." I WASN'T EVEN QUOTING YOUR ASS!!!!! Again, what the entire FUCK are you talking about? You yourself are twisting in knots trying to be correct. You are WRONG.

What am I trying to be correct about? That you wrote something antagonist towards a user that had a problem with your article that dismisses criticism of Mallory's antisemitic affiliation because white people are threatened by her? A comment that is vaguely racist in the context you were using? You're here throwing a temper tantrum because you've failed to convey your ideas without sounding like a crazy person. You may not be racist, but only an idiot would not look at what you wrote and think something of it.
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
3,435
What am I trying to be correct about? That you wrote something antagonist towards a user that had a problem with your article that dismisses criticism of Mallory's antisemitic affiliation because white people are threatened by her?

Where? Point where the FUCK I did that. Please.


A comment that is vaguely racist in the context you were using? You're here throwing a temper tantrum because you've failed to convey your ideas without sounding like a crazy person. You may not be racist, but only an idiot would not look at what you wrote and think something of it.

I'm throwing a tantrum? Ok. Nigga YOU accused me of CALLING you racist when I've done no such thing. You took "i'm not surprised" as me calling you racist. I explained myself and you are still going at it. FUCK off!
 

sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
Where? Point where the FUCK I did that. Please.

"The reductionist slant some of you take is truly baffling, but I'm not surprised."

I'm throwing a tantrum?

Clearly.

Ok. Nigga YOU accused me of CALLING you racist when I've done no such thing. You took "i'm not surprised" to me calling you racist. I explained myself and you are still going at it. FUCK off!

I explained myself. You can either accept it or continue acting like you are now. Either case, you need to learn some self-reflection and improve your communication skills.
 

Deleted member 4274

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Oct 25, 2017
3,435
User Banned (24H): Repeated Personal Insults
"The reductionist slant some of you take is truly baffling, but I'm not surprised."



Clearly.



I explained myself. You can either accept it or continue acting like you are now. Either case, you need to learn some self reflection.

Ummmmmmm, was that in response to YOU in ANY WAY shape or form? Because I didn't quote you and i wasn't talking about you. That wasn't in response to your reaction to the article I posted. It was a response the person i quoted. Again, fuck off.

And me telling your stupid ass to fuck off is not me throwing a tantrum. It's what I'd like you to do.
 

Arkage

User requested ban
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Oct 27, 2017
453
Glad to see the islamophobes continuing their smear campaign on Era with selective quoting of out-of-context snippets (already debunked multiple times) and guilt-by-degrees-of-association, while unironically supporting notorious supremacist publications. Same as the old site.

The Atlantic is a supremacist publication? The one that keeps featuring Ta-Nehisi Coates in many feature length editorials, who is on the forefront of social justice leadership for black America? I assume you're talking about a different publication that came up in the thread.
 

Domcorleone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,191
"The reductionist slant some of you take is truly baffling, but I'm not surprised."



Clearly.



I explained myself. You can either accept it or continue acting like you are now. Either case, you need to learn some self-reflection and improve your communication skills.


The delicious irony won't got unnoticed

I think you are the one who needs some self reflection. Throughout this thread you have stuffed words into peoples mouths and then attacked them for things they didn't say but rather what you interpreted they meant. That is absolutely no way to argue with someone. It's childish.
 

sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
Ummmmmmm, was that in response to YOU in ANY WAY shape or form? Because I didn't quote you and i wasn't talking about you. That wasn't in response to your reaction to the article I posted. It was a response the person i quoted. Again, fuck off.

No shit, Sherlock. You even quoted and bolded where I acknowledged as such:

"wrote something antagonist towards a user that had a problem with your article"

Do you see where I said "user" and not "me"? Do I need to draw you pictures to make you understand the things you even present? On top of that, why does it matter who you were being shitty towards?
 

sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
The delicious irony won't got unnoticed

I think you are the one who needs some self reflection. Throughout this thread you have stuffed words into peoples mouths and then attacked them for things they didn't say but rather what you interpreted they meant. That is absolutely no way to argue with someone. It's childish.

Like where? Be an adult and use examples, please. Also, isn't interpretation a part of communication? I'm not sure you understand how language works. Let me spell it out for you. You say something. I interpret what you said. I respond based on that interpretation. If someone can't articulate what their meaning is properly, there's going to be friction. That, however, is different that stuffing words into people's mouths. You sure you even know what concepts you're expressing mean? I also don't think you're able to differentiate between attacking an idea and attacking the person.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
Antisemitism is prominent on both the left and right and it sucks.

This reddit post sums up my feelings:

I'd say I agree, but he's really never heard a criticism of Israel that isn't anti-semitic? Sounds like someone's either got terrible friends and acquantainces or is really not trying to listen. And the fact that Jews turned around from being one of the biggest groups of a terrible genocide to running their own racist eugenics in their new country is exactly why people can point out they are talking from both sides of their mouth.

I was only barely familiar with the three women, but they all come off pretty badly about this. Mallory's pivot in her defense of NOI from "I hear how you're offended but I'm one so progressive, how dare you question my record" and then to "everyone is a bully" is kind of amazing.

If you're running an intersectional liberal smovement, it's kind of required that you actually give a damn about that intersectionality, even when it's not convenient. Trying to point to right-wing demagogues whose base don't ostracize them for their repugnant views and associations doesn't make you look good, it makes you look as cheap as the people you profess to oppose.
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
3,435
No shit, Sherlock. You even quoted and bolded where I acknowledged as such:

"wrote something antagonist towards a user that had a problem with your article"

Do you see where I said "user" and not "me"? Do I need to draw you pictures to make you understand the things you even present? On top of that, why does it matter who you were being shitty towards?

Where the fuck did that user have a problem with my article? Because i missed it. His Quote was not in response to my article. YOU had a problem with my article.

The person I quoted went all the way left with his comment. Just like you're going all the way left with me right now. Again, twisting yourself in knots to come off as correct.
 

sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
Where the fuck did that user have a problem with my article? Because i missed it. His Quote was not in response to my article. YOU had a problem with my article.

You're right, the person didn't have a problem with your article. That was my bad. But that doesn't dismiss your shitty comment[/QUOTE]
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Two weeks ago, during a Saviours' Day event to commemorate the life of Nation of Islam founder Master Fard Muhammad, Louis Farrakhan had some things to say about Jews. The "powerful Jews," he told the audience inside Wintrust Arena in Chicago, "are my enemy." The Jews are also "responsible for all of this filth and degenerate behavior that Hollywood is putting out turning men into women and women into men" — that is, for the existence of transgender people, which Farrakhan apparently views as a pressing moral concern. He issued a warning to a subset of the Jewish community — "Farrakhan has pulled the cover off the eyes of the Satanic Jew and I'm here to say your time is up, your world is through. You good Jews better separate because the satanic ones will take you to hell with them because that's where they are headed."

Under normal circumstances, sadly, none of this would come as a surprise. As the Anti-Defamation League and plenty of other organizations have amply documented, Farrakhan has been a hardened anti-Semite — not to mention a committed enemy of LGBT rights — for a long time, and the broader Nation of Islam movement has a longstanding problem with anti-Semitism (as the ADL noted, Farrakhan was not the only speaker to make wildly offensive remarks about Jews that day). This is a man who has described Adolf Hitler as a "very great man."

The lunatic actually said all of that. Jeez.

What made this address different was one of the attendees: Tamika D. Mallory, co-president of the successful Women's March organization that has served as an important part of the anti-Trump resistance movement ever since it was formed. During the portion of his speech not dedicated to recycling ages-old anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, Farrakhan explicitly praised both the March and Mallory herself. Mallory posted an Instagram video of herself at the event, and previously had posted a photo of herself with Farrakhan describing him as the "GOAT," or "greatest of all time."

Once Mallory's attendance at the event was revealed, she was repeatedly asked to denounce Farrakhan's rhetoric, and she declined to do so. When she addressed the controversy, she did so vaguely. In one tweet, she did denounce anti-Semitism and transphobia without explicitly mentioning Farrakhan; in another, she made the dispute out to be some sort of thorny moral dilemma entailing "nuance & complexities."

The phrasing is strikingly milquetoast: "Minister Farrakhan's statements about Jewish, queer, and trans people are not aligned with the Women's March Unity Principles, which were created by women of color leaders and are grounded in Kingian Nonviolence." Also striking is the group's explanation for why it took a week and a half for it to issue a statement: "Our external silence has been because we are holding these conversations and are trying to intentionally break the cycles that pit our communities against each other. We have work to do, as individuals, as an organization, as a movement, and as a nation."

Who is being pitted against whom here? The only question is whether or not viciously anti-Semitic claims — claims that have historically led to the murders of millions of Jews — should be swiftly denounced. And there is no version of "social justice," whatever one's conception of that might be, where the answer isn't obvious. There is nothing to discuss here.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...-denounce-louis-farrakhans-anti-semitism.html
 

Domcorleone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,191
Like where? Be an adult and use examples, please. Also, isn't interpretation a part of communication? I'm not sure you understand how language works. Let me spell it out for you. You say something. I interpret what you said. I respond based on that interpretation. If someone can't articulate what their meaning is properly, there's going to be friction. That, however, is different that stuffing words into people's mouths. You sure you even know what concepts you're expressing mean? I also don't think you're able to differentiate between attacking an idea and attacking the person.
You say that I am unable to differentiate between the two yet you have just been warned by a mod for personal attacks. So is the mod incorrect too? If you do not understand what someone is saying or they are not being articulate you should ask them to clarify their stance. I'm not going to talk down to you as you have other members. We are all adults here and can disagree without being entirely disagreeable. Look at your exchange with tatsu123 for examples of you manipulating what they wrote.
 

sleepInsom

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,569
You say that I am unable to differentiate between the two yet you have just been warned by a mod for personal attacks. So is the mod incorrect too? If you do not understand what someone is saying or they are not being articulate you should ask them to clarify their stance. I'm not going to talk down to you as you have other members. We are all adults here and can disagree without being entirely disagreeable. Look at your exchange with tatsu123 for examples of you manipulating what they wrote.

I asked for examples, and you haven't given any. Now you're just trolling. You've not even discussing the topic, are you? I misinterpreted Tatsu's post, I've given my reasoning for why I interpreted that, and obviously things broke down. I'm not going to automatically assume everything I read that is unusual is because their stance isn't clarified. I don't treat people like children who need their hand held. If there's a miscommunication, one can hope it works out or it doesn't. Now act like the adult you think yourself as and either contribute to the topic, or get off my nuts because you don't like my tone.

And if you want to reference my warning, I concede I can be a little aggressive at times, but Tatsu was banned. So unless you have something relevant to add here, I'm done spelling things out to you.
 

Domcorleone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,191
I asked for examples, and you haven't given any. Now you're just trolling. You've not even discussing the topic, are you? I misinterpreted Tatsu's post, I've given my reasoning for why I interpreted that, and obviously things broke down. I'm not going to automatically assume everything I read that is unusual is because their stance isn't clarified. I don't treat people like children who need their hand held. If there's a miscommunication, one can hope it works out or it doesn't. Now act like the adult you think yourself as and either contribute to the topic, or get off my nuts because you don't like my tone.

And if you want to reference my warning, I concede I can be a little aggressive at times, but Tatsu was banned. So unless you have something relevant to add here, I'm done spelling things out to you.

Thank you
 

Deleted member 15326

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Oct 27, 2017
4,219
Reading back over that spat seems like they both should have gotten popped if anything but whatevs.

Anyway, honestly dunno why association with Farrakhan is even up for debate. He was already a joke decades ago
 

Deleted member 888

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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Pretty remarkable that this is getting phrased as an issue of anti-Semitism and not also deep and obvious trans antagonism.

To be honest the guy seems like he's just everything rolled into one. The worst of conservative religious bigotry and conspiracy theories about Jewish people leading to an obsessive hatred. Whatever you want to claim about the movement itself it doesn't seem to do a good job of picking leaders. The guy before him was an extremist as well.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
That is a great thread and part of the reason why I hate this controversy. Farrakhan still being viable is an indictment of America and the "fox" Democratic party that Malcolm X warned us about. All these clowns on TV and the media want to take down the organizers without critical thinking or addressing the root of the problem. It's a red flag when they throw Sarsour and Perez in the mix when they're even less culpable than Tamika. Clowns like Bari Weiss and Jack Tapper have tried taking these women down before in the past. The latter's network gave a billion dollars worth of free publicity for a presidential candidate that courted NeoNazi's and gave a platform for his surrogates and he stayed silent on the matter.

The media's involvement is nothing more than those in power trying to take over a populist Left-leaning movement.
Interesting that you're using war as an analogy. Let me ask you this, what is this war fought over? Land? Oil? Trade? No, it's a war of ideologies. The Woman's March is fighting to make all women be treated with the same respect and dignity that anyone man would. The Woman's March is part of a greater progressive movement which seeks to make society more inclusive and welcome people who were marginalized because of their sex, gender, sexual orientation, race, etc. And yet, we have the leaders of this organization who are on record celebrating a man that has spent his career spreading a message of bigotry, racism, and ecxlusion.

Your comparison to the Civil Rights movement is also misguided. A preacher standing side-by-side with a "gang member" doesn't devalue the message of equal rights. Civil Rights wasn't a movement predicated by conditions. As in, you deserve equal rights if x. No, the gang member, despite his deeds, still deserves to be treated equally. If anything, that inequality probably aided in that person going in that direction. Contrast this where the leaders' personal history is a direct contradiction to the message they're trying to fight for. You can't continuously celebrate a racist and say you're fighting for equal rights.
As far as me invoking war I meant that society was at war with women in general. If society is waging a war on half the population, there's no way in hell they will all agree on everything outside of the fact that they are women and are fighting for their human rights together, as women. This point isn't lost on the Jewish people and Queer folks who are also part of the Women's March Board (and no I'm not saying other people have to be ok with Tamika just because they are). They are working towards a common cause and I'm sure this was all discussed thoroughly and with nuance amongst themselves or she would have been ousted long ago. To add, just because Tamika is a NOI member does not mean she has the same exact views as Louis Farrakhan. I'd be more comfortable with her ouster if she were an anti-Semite herself.

As for the second paragraph, I hear you. But can Tamika celebrate Farrakhan, the activist and not subscribe to his shitty views? The man's given hope to some discarded and hopeless souls. He is terrible and hateful but I understand why he has a following and why Black public figures give him the time of day. Farrakhan is in the streets helping while the Democrats just wants the streets in the prisons making cheap products for their donors.
If you're going to talk about Jewish women in high positions in the movement, I hope you have no problem with conservatives pointing to Ben Carson or any other minorities in high positions on the other side and saying "see, we're not racist!".
The reason why I brought up The Jewish members high up on the Board wasn't to prove "See, Tamika's not Anti-Semitic!!", it was to show that there are high ranking Jewish members who have been ok with Tamika staying on board. I am sure they substantively discussed this in the past, as they know her personally and the media attempted this Farrakhan boogeyman in the past year also. They didn't call for her ouster or snitch to the internet- she passed their litmus test as fellow activists.

To add, Ben Carson is a sambo who is actively hurting Black people. He works for a political platform that hates Blacks and he is doing damage to them by removing discriminatory protections in HUD's mission. Neither Mallory nor The Woman's March inflicts policy harming Jewish people.
The Feb. 25 speech, which was given at an event for Saviour's Day, a religious gathering of the Nation, ran for almost three hours. During it, Mr. Farrakhan said that the "powerful Jews" were his enemies, and that Jews were "responsible for all of this filth and degenerate behavior that Hollywood is putting out turning men into women and women into men," as well as other incendiary remarks.

even ignoring the antisemitism and transphobia, this is just insane paranoid ramblings. theres nothing to defend or disavow because its not actually a coherent thought
LOL. Which is why the NOI needs reform. Louie's gone batshit and has even incorporated anti-vaxxing and collaborates with Scientology. I was hoping he'd refine himself over the years but after watching some Breakfast Club interviews I nearly sprained my neck shaking my head. He even proposed Blacks seperating from America, then invited Obama become our leader lol.
To be honest the guy seems like he's just everything rolled into one. The worst of conservative religious bigotry and conspiracy theories about Jewish people leading to an obsessive hatred. Whatever you want to claim about the movement itself it doesn't seem to do a good job of picking leaders. The guy before him was an extremist as well.
Elijah Muhammad was living in a society surrounded by infinitely worst extremists known as the average American. He was born in the 1890s, his hatred for whites is excusable. I would prefer the NOI catch up to modern times and dial it back. They can do good for Black people without the hateful rhetoric against Jewish people and other minority groups. If not, they'll continue to see membership dwindle. Their viability today is the complete failure of The Democratic Party, who choose to serve corporate donors over marginalized, poor Americans.
 

Deleted member 15440

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Oct 27, 2017
4,191
The more politically expedient path indeed seems obvious—but the stakes here for Mallory are personal and not simply political. I asked Mallory if she thought Farrakhan was anti-Semitic, or sexist, or homophobic. "I don't agree with everything that Minister Farrakhan said about Jews or women or gay people," said Mallory. "I study in a tradition, the Kingian nonviolent tradition. I go into prisons and group homes and I don't come out saying, 'I just left the criminals or the killers.' That's not my language. That's not something I do. I don't speak in that way. In the tradition that I come out of, we attack the forces of evil but not people."

this is a good response
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,280

One prominent civil-rights activist cautioned against reading some black Americans' sympathy with Farrakhan's critique of white racism as a wholesale embrace of his message.

Part of the issue with that seems to be that he links white racism with being controlled by The Jews, like we saw earlier in the thread with that bit about the FBI.

this is a good response

I wonder what she's doing to combat those forces of evil then...?
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,280
she's an anti-racism activist who's helped organize multiple multi-million person direct actions? wtf?

Within the Nation of Islam. Presumably she's doing more to combat antisemitism and anti-lgbt bigotry when she works with that group, instead of just, like, going to an annual speech and nodding along when the organization's leader says "Trans people are a conspiracy created by the Jewish-run media" and then doing photo ops with him where she says he's really Good and Cool.

The bit in the article where it's like "She didn't know any Jewish people growing up, so learning about antisemitism has been an adjustment for her" is pretty wild too.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
This is great, thanks!
Within the Nation of Islam. Presumably she's doing more to combat antisemitism and anti-lgbt bigotry when she works with that group, instead of just, like, going to an annual speech and nodding along when the organization's leader says "Trans people are a conspiracy created by the Jewish-run media" and then doing photo ops with him where she says he's really Good and Cool.

The bit in the article where it's like "She didn't know any Jewish people growing up, so learning about antisemitism has been an adjustment for her" is pretty wild too.
Tamika is not in charge of changing Farrakhan. He's an 84 year old loon at this point. The average white liberal can't even flip their bigoted relatives to vote Dem, yet Tamika is supposed to flip Louis? Hopefully she or some NOI members can influence Farrakhans replacement and just focus on empowering Black people.

All of Farrakhans anti-Semitic ramblings should just focus on White people. White people control the fbi, the banks etc.... His obsession with Jewish people is crazy. Condemn white America and all his institutional bases are rightfully covered.

I appreciate the real substantive nuance, even for those who support an ultimatum. But the hot-taking white media who refuse to give a hard look into the "Why?" of the nation of Islam can seriously fuck off, as they consistently misrepresent Black issues time and time again and gaslight the hell out of us.
 

FrequentFlyer

Banned
Dec 3, 2017
1,273
Don't agree with anti Jewish stuff but seeing the things the Nation of Islam does for the black community made me believer. They do so much around here and I'm proud to be affiliated with them.
So you're proud to be affiliated with an anti-semitic, racist hate group (as by SPLC, ADL), okay. And think you can just brush the antisemitism aside by saying "yeah I don't agree with that"?
 

Red Cadet 015

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,947
So you're proud to be affiliated with an anti-semitic, racist hate group (as by SPLC, ADL), okay. And think you can just brush the antisemitism aside by saying "yeah I don't agree with that"?
Why are you (and alot of other people here) acting like this is some sort of binary choice? I'm not real familiar with the NOI, but if they really are keeping people in homes and building up communities like that, then yeah, people are going to support them. Farrakhan is one man, and is ultimately divisable from the good work the organization does. If he died today it would go on.

Just like people can separate their belief that there should be a state of Israel from the current actions of the Israeli government- which has senselessly killed scores of people (unlike the NOI) and just admitted to the sterilization of Etheopian women, they can separate Farrakhan from the good work and other messages coming out the NOI. Hell, we do the same fucking thing with the US government- just see the Iraq threads!
 
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FrequentFlyer

Banned
Dec 3, 2017
1,273
Why are you (and alot of other people here) acting like this is some sort of binary choice? I'm not real familiar with the NOI, but if they really are keeping people in homes and building up communities like that, then yeah, people are going to support them. Farrakhan is one man, and is ultimately divisable from the good work the organization does. If he died today it would go on.

Just like people can separate their belief that there should be a state of Israel from the current actions of the Israeli government- which has senselessly killed scores of people (unlike the NOI) and just admitted to the sterilization of Etheopian women, they can separate Farrakhan from the good work and other messages coming out the NOI. Hell, we do the same fucking thing with the US government- just see the Iraq threads!
Because openly supporting hate groups, no matter if they help their peers (most usually do), is simply not an acceptable thing to do and being a minority does not grant you an exception to that. Neither does claiming ignorance ("I'm not real familiar with them") and going on to defend them anyways. And neither does pretending like it's all just Farrakhan. Go read the ADL & SPLC reports and quotes on the NOI.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/nation-islam
https://www.adl.org/education/resources/profiles/the-nation-of-islam

ADL said:
The Nation of Islam (NOI), the oldest Black nationalist organization in the U.S., has maintained a consistent record of anti-Semitism and racism since its founding in the 1930s.

SPLC said:
"Who are the slumlords in the Black community? The so-called Jews. … Who is it sucking our blood in the Black community? A white imposter Arab and a white imposter Jew."
— Speech by NOI national official Khalid Muhammad, Nov. 29, 1993

"Jews have been conclusively linked to the greatest criminal endeavor ever undertaken against an entire race of people … the black African Holocaust. … The effects of this unspeakable tragedy are still being felt among the peoples of the world at this very hour."
The Secret Relationship Between Blacks and Jews (NOI book), 1991
 
Because openly supporting hate groups, no matter if they help their peers (most usually do), is simply not an acceptable thing to do and being a minority does not grant you an exception to that. Neither does claiming ignorance ("I'm not real familiar with them") and going on to defend them anyways. And neither does pretending like it's all just Farrakhan. Go read the ADL & SPLC reports and quotes on the NOI.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/nation-islam
https://www.adl.org/education/resources/profiles/the-nation-of-islam
Noi was funded specifically to help, the impact they have had on the civil Rights movement and blacks in ghetto is nothing less than incredible, they are certified. I'm not about to defend anything ignorant they spew but cut out the comparisons to other "hate groups" helping.
 

Red Cadet 015

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,947
The Atlantic said:
The Nation of Islam may be essential to anti-violence work in poor black neighborhoods. It may be an invaluable source of help for formerly incarcerated black people whose country has written them off as irredeemable. It may offer a path to vent anger at a system that continues to brutalize, plunder, and incarcerate human beings because they are black. And it may also be impossible to continue working with the Nation, and at the same time, lead a diverse, national, progressive coalition that includes many of the people Farrakhan and the Nation point to as the source of all evil in the world.
And this is why intersectionalism will not work at the present time.
Because openly supporting hate groups, no matter if they help their peers (most usually do), is simply not an acceptable thing to do and being a minority does not grant you an exception to that. Neither does claiming ignorance ("I'm not real familiar with them") and going on to defend them anyways. And neither does pretending like it's all just Farrakhan. Go read the ADL & SPLC reports and quotes on the NOI.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/nation-islam
https://www.adl.org/education/resources/profiles/the-nation-of-islam

All that has been posted in this thread multiple times. And you can't just say "it's not acceptable" as an argument. That's not actually an argument, it's simply a statement of what you believe.

There isn't a real reason a person can't separate Farrakhan from the NOI, as Mallory eloquently does in the article above. If that's not enough for you, then it simply reflects (what I consider) the reality that intersectional organizing is simply not possible in any real way right now. What would probably work right now is a series of alliances between smaller groups on specific issues.
 
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Dude Abides

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,382
There have been a couple attempts to make the NOI an actual Muslim organization rather than a kooky cult. Farrakhan thwarted the last one. Hopefully after he kicks the bucket someone will reform it. Till then it stays trash.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,280
Tamika is not in charge of changing Farrakhan. He's an 84 year old loon at this point. The average white liberal can't even flip their bigoted relatives to vote Dem, yet Tamika is supposed to flip Louis? Hopefully she or some NOI members can influence Farrakhans replacement and just focus on empowering Black people.

I'm not saying flip him, but despite so many people saying "Oh yeah no one actually believes the shit he says" he's still, what, the leader of the organization? One would assume that there have to be members who believe his teachings. (But cheers to being all "It's not this activist's job to challenge current power structures" I guess)

All of Farrakhans anti-Semitic ramblings should just focus on White people. White people control the fbi, the banks etc.... His obsession with Jewish people is crazy. Condemn white America and all his institutional bases are rightfully covered.

I feel as though a lot of people would argue that white people did not use Hollywood to create LGBT people.

Also, for people who keep trying to sidestep the issue by arguing that the NOI does a lot of good work: The criticism of Mallory isn't that she worked with them, or was helped by them in the past, or even speaks highly of them, it's her posting things like this on Instagram:
CE1WZRs.png

Like, if this post had been her with other members out helping a community and the caption "We're out helping here because the Nation of Islam is one of the only organizations that's does this kind of thing" or something, it would be one thing. But when someone's saying "I like to go see this extremely good and cool dude, multiple times a year if possible, so I can hear his hardcore truths", it raises a few eyebrows.
 

Deleted member 8860

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,525
Powdered Egg and Black American Psycho have largely covered what I wanted to say more succinctly.

While their cousins are being shot dead in broad daylight, their brothers and sisters imprisoned on trumped up charges, their neighbors being forced out onto the street and their homes demolished, their parents broken by a lifetime of loss, whether domestically or abroad, PoC activists largely don't have the opportunity to master euphemisms and media savvy the way that their oppressors do. Moreover, young PoC activists don't have many older activists to look to for mentorship -- Farrakhan's Nation of Islam has long been the strongest advocate for empowerment within the black community in America. (One might recall how jubilant white America was -- conservatives, moderates, and liberals alike, the parents of today's white progressives among them -- with the assassinations of Martin and Malcolm, who might have provided another option.)

And don't think that this story is just about three no-names. It's part of a broader effort to force out black representatives throughout government and community organizations that's grabbing headlines across conservative and "moderate" media outlets:

The Daily Caller said:
California Reps. Maxine Waters and Barbara Lee, Illinois Rep. Danny Davis, Indiana Rep. Andre Carson, Minnesota Rep. Keith Ellison, New York Rep. Gregory Meeks and Texas Rep. Al Green have all attended meetings with Farrakhan while in Congress, according to photos, videos and witness accounts of the meetings reviewed by The Daily Caller News Foundation.
...
The Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) held a meeting with Farrakhan in 2005 where then Democratic Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois was photographed smiling with Farrakhan.

Twenty-one current CBC members were part of the caucus in 2005 when Farrakhan attended a CBC meeting. TheDC reached out to all 21 members' offices to ask if they were willing to denounce Farrakhan. None would.

ABC News said:
The Republican Jewish Coalition is calling for the resignation of seven Democratic members of Congress...
The lobbying group on Tuesday called for the following lawmakers to step down: Reps. Keith Ellison, D-Minn.; Barbara Lee, D-Calif.; Maxine Waters, D-Calif.; Danny Davis, D-Ill.; Andre Carson, D-Ind.; Gregory Meeks, D-N.Y.; and Al Green, D-Texas.

This tactic to discredit the voices of the oppressed is as old as time, and "liberals" are still falling for it.

.


I'm just going to respond to this last bit and then I'm out (or hey, mods, you can ban me again to make doubly sure):

The Atlantic is a supremacist publication? The one that keeps featuring Ta-Nehisi Coates in many feature length editorials, who is on the forefront of social justice leadership for black America? I assume you're talking about a different publication that came up in the thread.

The Atlantic article is a sanitized version of the Times of Israel original (to which it links and from which it depends). This is the author's feed on that site:

avHo30c.png
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Just like people can separate their belief that there should be a state of Israel from the current actions of the Israeli government- which has senselessly killed scores of people (unlike the NOI) and just admitted to the sterilization of Etheopian women, they can separate Farrakhan from the good work and other messages coming out the NOI. Hell, we do the same fucking thing with the US government- just see the Iraq threads!

There's a huge difference between an entire country of millions to hundreds of millions of people and an organization of a fraction of a fraction of that. One is a conscious choice while the other isn't. There isn't a single organization in the world that's a monolith and pretty much all of them have done SOME good. Several terrorist entities, the Nazis, straight-up cults; none of it outweighs the atrocities they commit or the harmful rhetoric they spread. The only difference between them all is scale.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
(But cheers to being all "It's not this activist's job to challenge current power structures" I guess)

I feel as though a lot of people would argue that white people did not use Hollywood to create LGBT people.

Also, for people who keep trying to sidestep the issue by arguing that the NOI does a lot of good work: The criticism of Mallory isn't that she worked with them, or was helped by them in the past, or even speaks highly of them, it's her posting things like this on Instagram:
CE1WZRs.png

Like, if this post had been her with other members out helping a community and the caption "We're out helping here because the Nation of Islam is one of the only organizations that's does this kind of thing" or something, it would be one thing. But when someone's saying "I like to go see this extremely good and cool dude, multiple times a year if possible, so I can hear his hardcore truths", it raises a few eyebrows.
Black people and our condition are nuanced and complex. This mainstream pearl clutching by the media reeks of privilege, hypocrisy, and insincerity. I've spoken on the topic at length, you can go back to my posts since I don't want to repeat things. Tamika has already denounced Louis' anti-Semitism, homophobia, and sexism yet that's apparently not enough for people (and I think I know why). Go learn something about Black people and the consistent, deliberate failures of the Democratic party. Go find the answer to the question for why Barack Obama, white Liberals' best Black friend, and other high profile Black people acknowledge, work with, befriend, and admire Farrakhan. Go ask yourself why Chicago's Jewish Mayor Rahm Emanuel has given the NOI praise despite Farrakhans stupidity and Anti-Semitism. At the end of the day, Farrakhan is powerless and for his decades of anti-Semitic nonsense there's not one physically hurt Jewish person to show for it. The alt-right actually has the power to harm Jewish people yet this same white media wants to remind you that Neonazi's watch Netflix and can make a mean tuna casserole just like normal people do!

Liberals and the media in general really are something else. You put a candidate in front of us that (amongst other racial transgressions) installed a thievin Uncle Tom puppet president in Haiti, that loots the first Black Republic out of billions to line the pockets of contractors and corporations, actions which the conveniently righteous US media is dead silent on, and then you have the nerve to tell Black people to suck it up and vote Dem. Tim Kaine just backed a bill to remove racial discriminatory oversight in bank lending yet next election loss, Liberals will have the gall to blame Black people for not voting, even when we show up 80+% Dem. Democrats want us for votes and to step the fuck out of the way when it comes to any positions of leadership or any policy that tackles some real shit that legislatively abandoned Black communities face. So pardon me if I don't like the optics of a bunch of hypocrites, that either don't even like Black people substantively to begin with or who believe in equality in the abstract, demanding the removal of a Black woman at the forefront of one of the biggest populist movements in my generation over views she doesn't even believe in.
 
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IrishNinja

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,837
Vice City
just wanted to co-sign all the ugly truths Powdered Egg is dropping here, it's real easy to stay focused on the heinous shit Farrakhan's been saying forever and ignore the reasons why the good the NOI does is celebrated nonetheless. likewise, we can acknowledge the need for intersectionality & holding people accountable (which has happened here with mallory) while also recognizing the narrative here as the next attempt to bring down these women & their movement.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,371
holding people accountable (which has happened here with mallory)
Has it? She isn't stepping down, is she? And neither is Sarsour. In fact, it seems we're supposed to forgive them or let it slide because "sometimes the NOI does something good".

Refusing to tolerate enablers of anti-semitism and other bigotry isn't a conspiracy to bring down the Women's March. Some people might use that as a faux-concern excuse, but that's not what's happening here at least.
 

Aaron Stack

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
1,557
I see people are still making excuses for the NOI.

So just making sure, people are also aware of the heinous shit they've said about the LGBT community and their history with them?
 

Aaron Stack

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
1,557
Go ask yourself why Chicago's Jewish Mayor Rahm Emanuel has given the NOI praise despite Farrakhans stupidity and Anti-Semitism. At the end of the day, Farrakhan is powerless and for his decades of anti-Semitic nonsense there's not one physically hurt Jewish person to show for it.

LMAO

And the NOI praised the American Nazi Party and had them sit down at a meeting.


George Lincoln Rockwell got along well with many Black nationalist groups and their leaders such as Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm X as they shared the goal of racial separation.[29] Rockwell told his followers that Elijah Muhammad "has gathered millions of the dirty, immoral, drunken, filthy-mouthed, lazy and repulsive people sneeringly called 'niggers' and inspired them to the point where they are clean, sober, honest, hard working, dignified, dedicated and admirable human beings in spite of their color...Muhammad knows that mixing is a Jewish fraud and leads only to aggravation of the problems that it is supposed to solve...I have talked to the Muslim leaders and am certain that a workable plan for separation of the races could be effected to the satisfaction of all concerned—except the communist-Jew agitators." He also said of Elijah Muhammad "I am fully in concert with their program, and I have the highest respect for Elijah Muhammad."

Shit guys, I gotta change my mind. If the NOI is praising them even though they are racist and facists, I guess that means I need to see the good and not encourage people to disavow them.
 
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