The Binding of Isaac |OT| A new Era Walk Card, without the Bloat

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,260
Rochester, New York
Never mind, there's still Bloat. You can never escape from Bloat.

Catch all thread for the Binding of Isaac, Binding of Isaac Rebirth, Afterbirth, Afterbirth+ on all consoles and PC.


What is the Binding of Isaac?

Wikipedia says
The Binding of Isaac is an indie roguelike video game designed by Edmund McMillen and Florian Himsl, initially released in 2011 for Microsoft Windows; the game was later ported for OS X, and Linux operating systems. The game's title and plot are inspired by the Biblical story of the Binding of Isaac: after Isaac's mother receives a message from God demanding the life of her son as proof of her faith, Isaac flees into the monster-filled basement of their home, where he must fight to survive. Players control Isaac or one of six other unlockable characters through a procedurally generated dungeon in a roguelike manner, fashioned after those of The Legend of Zelda, defeating monsters in real-time combat while collecting items and power-ups to defeat bosses and eventually Isaac's mother.
Wrath of the Lamb is DLC for the Flash game
Rebirth is a remake of that game + Wrath of Lamb
Afterbirth is the first expansion to Rebirth
Afterbirth+ is an expansion to Afterbirth
Booster Packs are mini expansions to Afterbirth+
The Eternal Edition is a mini-DLC pack for the original Flash game, that never saw its content moved to Rebirth (thank god) because it actually released after Rebirth!

That's very confusing, but basically, if you're just getting into the series, you should just start with the "complete" edition, with AB+, sold at retail or for download on the Switch and PS4, and off Steam or other stores on PC. For the best and smoothest experience, the Switch and PS4 versions are actually better balanced for new players, by making a ton of stuff unlockable that is unlocked by default on the PC. The "complete" PC version can be a little overwhelming for newer players.

The original Flash game and it's expansion are just a curiosity at this point. They're fun, but very dated. It does have a better soundtrack, though.

Who made this game?
Noted indie developer Edmund McMillen of Super Meat Boy fame, with the help of his buddy Florian. Nicalis, the indie publisher who doesn't release their games in a timely manner, helped Edmund make Rebirth and now appear to actually own the IP and are updating the game with Ed's input.

So what consoles is this thing on?
Basically everything that has existed in the last decade has some version of Isaac on it.

Binding of Isaac + Wrath of Lamb is PC only
Rebirth is on the New 3DS, Wii U, PC, 360, PS3, Vita and iOS.
Afterbirth is on the PC, Xbone and PS4
Afterbirth+ is on PC, Switch, PS4

I have one of those systems! And now I've started playing the game, but it's really hard :(
This game can be very hard when you first start. Not only are most of the very good items unlockable, but the game is just... hard. The best advice I can give is get a good feeling of the enemy patterns. A good run can end very quickly with poor dodging, but a bad run can be saved by excellent dodging, so memorize enemy patterns. And there's a lot of enemies and bosses, but you get used to them.

By the end of your time with Isaac, you will have memorized all the signs of the Zodiac, the alchemic symbol for Sulphur and various obscure biblical references you had no idea existed.

Did you say biblical references? ABORT ABORT ABORT
This isn't that sort of game. Not at all. There's lots of gross out stuff like poop, enemies with bleeding empty eye sockets and so much more. But don't think this game is disgusting to play or anything like that, the graphics are done in a cutesy retro style where you kind of forget one of the bosses doesn't have any eyes and the other is bleeding out of every orifice. No really. It just sort of sinks in and you forget this game is somewhat of a horror game.

The religious undertones in this game are intentionally done because of Edmund's childhood and his experiences with religion. It mostly pokes fun at Christians, although not in a malicious way, just in a "did you know what Sheol is? Or that that's another horseman named Conquest?" It's kind of critique on religion, but it's not heavy handed at all. The game is gameplay focused, and the theme never gets in the way of that.

You mentioned Booster Packs. What are Booster Packs?
These are "small" (the last one was huge) updates for Afterbirth+ that is a mix of Steam Workshop content and developer made content released as official mini DLC packs for free if you own AB+. They generally add a handful of items, community requested quality of life tweaks, and the most recent actually added a ton of new rooms and enemies. These were supposed to be released in packs, once a month, for 12 months, but that didn't happen. Now there will only be 5. And 4 are already released, so the next one is the last.

The Switch and PS4 get the Boosters later than PC. They're up to Booster 3, and will get 4 and 5 at a later date (after 5 is released).

Steam Workshop?
Yep! The PC version of AB+ comes with mod support. Do you want a boss to look and sound like Shrek? Of course you do! Well that's totally possible on the PC using mods. Mod everything and anything except for all the things that actually can't be modded. Mods disable achievements (and by extension, unlocks) until you beat a certain boss in the game, after that, feel free to just use whatever mods you want and not block progress. Nice for graphics mods!
 

Cass_Se

Member
Oct 25, 2017
924
I need this thread once I manage to get time to sit down and finish Afterbirth+.

From my experience complaining on the Internet always helped my rng.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,703
Kitchener, ON
Venting is always the secret to getting the RNG gods to smile upon you.
Incidentally, I finally started mowing through Hush/Delerium unlocks this week and I'm surprised by how smoothly it's all been going.
Only have Samson, Eden, Apollyon, Keeper and The Lost to go. Greed mode was so much more taxing than this.

Once those are out of the way I can start on my Hard mode cleanups (so many co-op babies) and then it's just a waiting game until boosters 4 and 5 hit the Switch and I'll be all done.
For ONE save file, at least. I just know I'm going to want to kick off the whole wild ride again to fill out the other two but my backlog has to take priority.
 
OP
OP
ned_ballad

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,260
Rochester, New York
I like the part where Nicalis fixed Loki's Horns not unlocking in the same update they added the Broken Modem achievement which has no known current unlock requirement and might be bugged.

Ironic because the item is called the Broken Modem
 

viral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
296
Finally bought the game after having watched hundreds of NL's videos of it. It feels like I've been playing it for years.
 
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ned_ballad

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,260
Rochester, New York
Finally bought the game after having watched hundreds of NL's videos of it. It feels like I've been playing it for years.
That's how I learned how to play. I watched streamers play the game for a year or so before diving into the game (on the Wii U lol)

I played the original Flash game for ~5 hours, didn't quite care for it. Bought Rebirth, played for a bit, put it down and never came back. Started watching some streamers a few years later, learned all about the game from them. Picked up the Wii U version, beat about 80% of it, then finally just bought AB+ on the PC and I haven't gone back to any console version (my Wii U is put away, and I am NOT going through Greedier mode again on the Switch, even if the new achievements appeal to me).

There's a lot of nice people out there who play the game and are helpful if someone asks them in chat to quickly explain something. There's little quirks and stuff that you can only learn either via experience, or by watching others play. Isaac streams really well, and is fun to watch, so it's a good way to get into the game.
 

viral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
296
That's how I learned how to play. I watched streamers play the game for a year or so before diving into the game (on the Wii U lol)

I played the original Flash game for ~5 hours, didn't quite care for it. Bought Rebirth, played for a bit, put it down and never came back. Started watching some streamers a few years later, learned all about the game from them. Picked up the Wii U version, beat about 80% of it, then finally just bought AB+ on the PC and I haven't gone back to any console version (my Wii U is put away, and I am NOT going through Greedier mode again on the Switch, even if the new achievements appeal to me).

There's a lot of nice people out there who play the game and are helpful if someone asks them in chat to quickly explain something. There's little quirks and stuff that you can only learn either via experience, or by watching others play. Isaac streams really well, and is fun to watch, so it's a good way to get into the game.
Yeah, I would be totally lost if I didn't watch a lot of videos, it feels like a great advantage knowing what every item, cards, etc. does (still don't know most of the trinkets though, because NL). I still suck at the game, but at least it's because of me, and not because I took a garbage item. :P
 
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ned_ballad

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,260
Rochester, New York
Yeah, I would be totally lost if I didn't watch a lot of videos, it feels like a great advantage knowing what every item, cards, etc. does (still don't know most of the trinkets though, because NL). I still suck at the game, but at least it's because of me, and not because I took a garbage item. :P
On Twitch, Cobaltstreak is a nice streamer who plays Isaac in the early evening (US) as a warm up before playing other games. He's more of a hardcore Isaac player, and will usually speed through the game if he has the build for it. Another user, Lethalfrag, streams Isaac occasionally at night (US) (less than he used to, but he still does occasionally). He's more relaxed and casual, and plays with a few mods, but nothing that changes the game, just minor tweaks. Both are good about explaining items and mechanics if chat asks.

Neither are obnoxious and both have well moderated chats.

If you wanted a more live set up for watching runs, versus YouTube videos.
 

Cipher Peon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,041
Hello, friends!

I never really posted or lurked much in the other Binding of Isaac threads, but why not give it a shot now?
I love Isaac, I bought it on PC during a Humble Bundle, then bought it on Vita for portability, then bought it on Switch for Afterbirth+ and physical (!!!). Playing it on Switch is a dream, except no achievements really kills it for me.

Still one of my favorite games ever hehehe
I beat Hush once (thank you Mask of Infamy) but can't beat Ultra Greed at all wah
 

JCW

Member
Oct 26, 2017
336
I finally double-dipped for this on Switch. It's been a while but it feels good to boot up every so often (and I had always wanted to play Isaac on a handheld)

I got the digital Australian version which means I got the sweet first-run logo art instead of the shitty angry Isaac art.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,703
Kitchener, ON
I love Isaac, I bought it on PC during a Humble Bundle, then bought it on Vita for portability, then bought it on Switch for Afterbirth+ and physical (!!!). Playing it on Switch is a dream, except no achievements really kills it for me.
If anything, the achievement structure for Isaac on the Switch is more refined and established than on any other platform. Try to separate the fact that the game doesn't have a back-end trophy/achievement chart like it does on Steam or Playstation. Almost every single one of those was tied to unlocking items in the Secrets menu... and there are more of those on Switch than anywhere else. 375 and counting... more will be added once Boosters 4 and 5 go live. Treat that screen as your achievement list and then multiply it by all 3 save slots and you've got PLENTY of acheivements to track in the game.
 
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ned_ballad

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,260
Rochester, New York
I really hope Edmund doesn't "forget" about the Switch achievements on the PC for the last booster...

It slipped his mind for Booster 4. If the PC version doesn't get those achievements, the Switch/PS4 versions will basically be the best version of Isaac on the market, if you don't care about mods.
 

Cipher Peon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,041
If anything, the achievement structure for Isaac on the Switch is more refined and established than on any other platform. Try to separate the fact that the game doesn't have a back-end trophy/achievement chart like it does on Steam or Playstation. Almost every single one of those was tied to unlocking items in the Secrets menu... and there are more of those on Switch than anywhere else. 375 and counting... more will be added once Boosters 4 and 5 go live. Treat that screen as your achievement list and then multiply it by all 3 save slots and you've got PLENTY of acheivements to track in the game.
It's not the same :(
The Switch not having achievements really bums me out, it's my biggest problem with the console. Second biggest is no Activity Log.

I love Isaac, but achievements/trophies were one of the main things that kept me going.
 

Stat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,184
Really want to find a Switch original run copy.

After months and months of Eden streaks, I've started a new save file to rediscover what it was like trying to earn things. Loving some of the new items from the booster packs; just wish there were more
 

Bear

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,422
Woo, glad this thread was created. Still playing this months after launch on the Switch. Love this game so much.
 

Nicktals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,058
Finally bought the game after having watched hundreds of NL's videos of it. It feels like I've been playing it for years.
I still watch NL almost every day. Its been what, almost 6 years? Absolute mayhem.

Weird to explain to people who ask, but *shrug*, its a part of my routine now.

Love playing the switch version, i can actually rank well on the dailies occasionally lol. The screen showed 3 on yesterday's lost daily when i finished, about halfway through the day. Rarerly break top 200 on PC.

And to OP: I wonder where the series goes from here. Do you have a link to the info that Nicalis owns the IP now?
 

pukadon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26
This has to be my most played game of all time. I'm currently trying to 100 percent the ps4 version (in case nothing is glitched).
 

viral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
296
I just got 1st on the daily (PC)! Sure, it's only been up for half an hour, but still. :P
 

azeke

Member
Oct 30, 2017
920
Astana, Kazakhstan
I was near 100000% completion on Switch with only some booster items left (and that darn broken modem however it is unlocked)... And the game kinda became stale.

Obviously i took it as a signal to start second save file.

It's fun again. Especially with the way i do it -- avoiding killing Mom's Heart for as long as possible (to postpone "Everything is Terrible" event that makes the game harder). I have just 2 Mom kills and yet i got Satan, Lamb and occasional Mega Satan kills on 4-5 characters. I even managed to get to Cathedral one time to unlock Abaddon.

I had Mario Odyssey since Friday but i still ended up playing Isaac more this weekend. Stayed up to 5am, completed Greed Machine and unlocked Keeper.

At this point the plan is to stop progress on other characters and grind Keeper and Ultra Hard. With less items unlocked pools are less polluted with useless stuff.
 

phlpp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
83
Have been considering to jump in again now that AB+ is on PS4, although my last Keeper loss (Brimstone, Swallowed Penny) kinda broke me forever.
 

just_one

Member
Oct 26, 2017
332
Been playing Greedier mode on PS4.

Goddamn its hard! Although last night was able to clear 3 characters! Isaac , Maggy and Azazel

how will i beat greedier mode with lost and keeper is beyond me...but its a very addicted game to say the least
 

dickroach

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
953
Been playing Greedier mode on PS4.

Goddamn its hard! Although last night was able to clear 3 characters! Isaac , Maggy and Azazel

how will i beat greedier mode with lost and keeper is beyond me...but its a very addicted game to say the least
greed(ier) mode with the keeper is fiiiine. you have free health respawning every 5 or 10 or whatever seconds. he was the first one i beat greedier with.
getting a swallowed penny from bombing a pot is real easy to come by and a lifesaver
 

just_one

Member
Oct 26, 2017
332
greed(ier) mode with the keeper is fiiiine. you have free health respawning every 5 or 10 or whatever seconds. he was the first one i beat greedier with.
getting a swallowed penny from bombing a pot is real easy to come by and a lifesaver
swallowed penny is not that easy , any way of knowing if a pot has something? like when a rock has something has that little sign on it.
 

rostad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
89
greed(ier) mode with the keeper is fiiiine. you have free health respawning every 5 or 10 or whatever seconds. he was the first one i beat greedier with.
getting a swallowed penny from bombing a pot is real easy to come by and a lifesaver
I've tried so many times with keeper but I can't beat it! I think it was easier with the the lost + holy mantle.
 

viral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
296
I had a great greedier run with Lilith today, took one of the new items (the thing that turns my tears into those ipecac-like shots that explode into smaller shots on contact), and my familiar just stopped shooting, so I was left with my Buddy in a Box as my sole damage source. RIP.
 

just_one

Member
Oct 26, 2017
332
amazing run last night with the lost on greedier mode.

got leaf and then meat ball.

just a little pacience and greedier mode with lost is done!
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,703
Kitchener, ON
For some reason I never wind up with the Gnawed Leaf and a host of orbitals in an opportune time to synergize them. Either wind up with the Leaf late in a run where I'm otherwise overpowered and/or have very few orbitals of note... or early in a run and wind up dead before I wind up with any good orbitals to partner with.

Had a productive Keeper run yesterday. Kicked things off with a Eucharist in my first sacrifice room which led to me milking Angel Rooms the entire run to load up... and yet flying and/or Holy Mantle failed to materialize. Only wound up with Sacred Heart via a Joker card in The Void. Ran into a bit of a snag, however. Saved up two Chaos Cards for the last two battles without realizing they would only work on Hush... NOT Delirium. Which led to me going for the full clear and getting snakebit by a spike trap where I couldn't retrieve my coughed up coin from the Swallowed Penny in time. Run over. So that Delirium win to unlock the Crooked Penny continues to remain elusive.
 

azeke

Member
Oct 30, 2017
920
Astana, Kazakhstan
For some reason I never wind up with the Gnawed Leaf and a host of orbitals in an opportune time to synergize them.
Back when i was starting the game Gnawed leaf+orbital seemed like THE trick but after playing the game for hundreds of hours i see it as a complete waste of an item slot.

If you get Gnawed Leaf early AND can use it "productively" -- then you run slows down to complete halt which is just boring and i am better and faster off actually attacking enemies.

If you're still alive in later levels then you HAVE good defence and offence. It simply impossible to get there without them. So if you get Gnawed Leaf late -- it's useless.

The way game works now is that all your runs have to become overpowered by necessity or they are cut short when you die because you're not OP. The middle has completely fallen off. It has been that way for a while actually:

https://justabluddyblog.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/binding-of-isaac-rebirth-the-case-of-the-missing-middle-class/

I also had a cool Keeper run this morning. It was just my second Keeper run after unlocking him on my second save file (half way in the first run i realised i haven't unlocked Swallowed Coin through the challenge yet so i lost motivation and promptly died).

On 2nd run, i bought Mom's Box and it made me OP very fast. Mom's box gave me Cancer, Nose Goblin so my attack was already taken care of. After completing angel key on first sacrifice room, i got Filigree Feather which meant that i get 2 extra items with each angel kill. After that -- i got Sacred Heart, Crown of Light, Holy Mantle through angel kills both in sacrifice rooms and Angel rooms.

It was funny that i had to drop Cancer trinket in favour of Nose Goblin because otherwise Cancer is considered a better trinket, but for the Keeper booger tears are better ultimately.

I got to Cathedral and unfortunately there was no sacrifice room on the floor. I had to contend with just Isaac kill because i don't have Polaroid unlocked. If there was a sacrifice room -- i could also teleport to Dark Room and do Lamb and Mega Satan. Alas. At least i unlocked wooden nickel and abusing sacrifice room will be even easier now.
 
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ned_ballad

ned_ballad

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,260
Rochester, New York
Gnawed Leaf + Cube of Meat on floor 1 of Greed Mode is how I got Lost's mark for it

It took A LONG TIME, but i mostly just AFK'd while surfing the 'net on my phone and peeking every so often to make sure no Hosts or any other enemies that require me to actually do something spawned.

That run eventually got Sacc Dagger as well as BFF and Box of Friends, so it was basically made for me to beat Greed Mode. Greed didn't actually take too long to beat

I console'd myself a broken build and warped to him and beat Greedier in 5 minutes because I'm a filthy cheater who couldn't be bothered to play through Greedier mode
 

Naarmight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
423
Finally killed Mega Satan and Delirium with The Keeper at the weekend. Now I am kinda sad, I kind of got into the grove of just doing Keeper runs whenever I was at a loose end.

I still have Greedier mode to do with the Keeper and the Lost, but honestly I hate that mode and I doubt I will ever do it
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,703
Kitchener, ON
Made it to The Void with Keeper a second time yesterday with a build largely built around Ludovico and Swallowed Penny. Milked that build to death with a delayed run courtesy of Mama Mega where I cleared out a bunch of shop pools courtesy of exploiting Swallowed Penny until Humbling Bundle showed up to make it easily profitable. Died to The Lamb in a fluke boss encounter after like 2 hours. Was not happy. I was sitting on two Algiz runes for crying out loud. That's like getting bounced from Survivor with an immunity idol in your pocket.

Made it a 3rd time just now with a run that started off pretty basic. Magic Mushroom and Cracked Crown carried me despite the absence of a Swallowed Penny safety net. Picked up Dry Baby in the Caves. The run almost ran south a couple times early on thanks to grabbing an unnecessary Chaos in the final shop for shits and giggles which rendered the post-Heart Angel Room I triggered utter garbage.

At 29 minutes in the Womb, I mulled over a decision to go back for a Dead Cat from a Golden Chest spawn for the extra lives in the Blue Womb / Void deciding to roll the dice on a health up drop despite the absence of Health Up pills in my pool. Decided to gamble, hit the Blue Womb, triggered a Beelzebub transformation but alas no health up. To add salt to the wound I also bagged Head of the Keeper which made me instantly regret going for Dead Cat.

Hush chewed up 7 of my 9 cat lives and I'd given up hope of besting him but Dry Baby put in work and I got lucky by finding a safe spot from his projectile barrage and him largely not moving until his laser light show at the end. Dying so many times with Keeper despite literally bathing in a room full of pennies was downright enraging.

Lost the 8th life in like the 4th room in The Void in a room full of knights that I could barely see thanks to being extra small with an army of blue flies, insect orbitals/followers and Poke Go spawned enemies to further obfuscate things. Proceeded to do a full clear in hopes of landing some kind of health up from a non-Delirium boss but had to know for certain the boss wasn't going to be Delirium before triggering it.

Towards the end I stumbled across a Joker card and popped it. And the Angel Room I landed in had the most glorious piece of Rotten Meat I ever laid my eyes upon. I let out a shriek of joy as suddenly my Wooden Penny active item, my Stop Watch, my Polaroid, my Missing Page 2 and my Head of the Keeper spawned coins all had meaning again. I took an I'm Drowsy pill into the Delirium fight, kicked his ass while he laid into me with the slowest projectile shower in the history of gaming and unlocked that Crooked Penny.

So yeah... my run was saved by Rotten Meat. Now I get to wrap up The Lost on hard with Hush / Delirium to net Godhead. Can't wait!
 

Morisaki

Member
Oct 29, 2017
111
How does one get to the boss rush normally? I play fairly methodically so I take forever on each floor. My only boss rushes are only when I get lucky with a Mama Mega and save it for Mom's floor.

Right now the Lost is driving me crazy. No luck at all with getting gnawed leaf and auto-damage familiars together and I make too many mistakes normally. Ugh.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,703
Kitchener, ON
Normal way to get to the Boss Rush is to beat the Foot within 20 minutes. And I'm pretty methodical, too... so that's a challenge unless you're blessed with a stacked build.

My recommendation there is to play the Basement floors as normal to assess whether the run is even worth going forward with following the first Devil deal. Ideally, try and get through them within 6-7 minutes.

On the next 4 floors you'll want to skip challenge rooms unless they boast an item and forego going out of your way to shoot fires and poops. Mushrooms are still worth blowing up for a shot at Magic Mushroom or a Liberty Cap for mapping. Prioritise finding the Treasure Room and Shop on each floor. Sacrifice Rooms are also important if you're playing as Keeper.

Don't go out of your way to find secret rooms unless they're in obvious locations - look for Secret Rooms at the start of floors and Super Secret Rooms near the boss. If you've got some Soul Hearts as a buffer and a 65-70% Devil Deal shot, don't be afraid to clear out the three pre-Foot bosses as soon as you encounter them.

If your Devil Deal chance is 35% or lower, blow up the Coin Beggars. Milk the Blood Donation machines if you can because every Blood Bag will give you a red heart for deals and a 30% speed boost - plus the coins will give you some valuable shop currency (buy mapping if you can). Abuse the invulnerability window to get two Demon beggar payments for every half heart - Spun is an invaluable transformation if you don't land Guppy. And don't be afraid to pause religiously before making any big decision.

Lastly, for Lost specifically, one exploit you can work with if you find yourself getting hit repeatedly is to abuse exiting the run and restarting it any time your Holy Mantle shield is used up. When you reload, you'll restart the room with a shield back in place. You can even make gradual Boss Rush progress abusing this because earlier bosses won't trigger if you've fully decimated them. It's cheap but so is this game at times so don't be ashamed about exploiting this tactic.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,703
Kitchener, ON
Trying to beat Hush on hard with The Lost feels like the most maddening thing possible in this game.
I'm going to do some Mega Satan runs with other characters to decompress.
 

Cass_Se

Member
Oct 25, 2017
924
Trying to beat Hush on hard with The Lost feels like the most maddening thing possible in this game.
I'm going to do some Mega Satan runs with other characters to decompress.
I'd still say doing anything with The Lost in base Rebirth was way worse. Hush is obviously a harder boss but mere holy mantle gives you so much leeway everything is less soul-crushing.