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The Black Culture Community [OT 4] - Melanin and Estrogen - The new Kryptonite

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
Kiawe is tight. If it wasn't for marshal looking like a street fighter character , he would be my favorite
 

Kreed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,925
If schools want kids to learn more math, they need to replace all their equations with "Jeff Bezos is a Billionaire" math problems. Kids would be making A+++s thanks to Twitter.
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,347
Miami, FL
I get the sentiment and relate but like

There are defo mad black people in pokemon before nessa

One of my favorites is my homie marshal




I marked out when i saw that man

The champion of that region is also a 10 year old black girl

Its like when G5 hit they just decided to include people of color and and gamefreak has been suprisingly ...really good about it. Them and the splatoon dudes. Which is suprising considering this is nintendo which has the zelda fanbase.
Were kinda missing the point of the person's tweet, I shared because of that whole colorism thing with Nessa sucked. It pissed me off.


Prior to Nessa there wasn't any female trainer with her skin tone is a good message. We have Iris, Leona, Olivia but Nessa really vibes with a lot of people.

Also if were speaking favorites Iris is my favorite Black pokemon trainer
 
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Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
Were kinda missing the point of the person's tweet.


Not to be rude but her point here is of course a dark skinned woman. Prior to Nessa there wasn't any female trainer with her skin tone. That's important to point out.
But there were dark skined trainers with her skin that skin tone?

2 in gen 5 actually, not to say progress still can't be made, just mentioning that
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,479
Prior to Nessa there wasn't any female trainer with her skin tone is a good message.
I don't understand. There were, some of which you listed already. And as far as I know, Nessa is the only time there's been this issue with whitewashing and it was with fanart (not even in official art/merch like the fuckery with the Splatoon 2 Marina doll). Pokemon has had people of a variety of skin tons in a variety of roles since they Gen 5 when they started basing them on places outside of Japan
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
13,967
I get the sentiment and relate but like

There are defo mad black people in pokemon before nessa

One of my favorites is my homie marshal




I marked out when i saw that man

The champion of that region is also a 10 year old black girl

Its like when G5 hit they just decided to include people of color and and gamefreak has been suprisingly ...really good about it. Them and the splatoon dudes. Which is suprising considering this is nintendo which has the zelda fanbase.
If I had to guess, it's because ever since gen 5 the regions have been based on places outside of Japan so they have attempted to show more diversity with character designs (even though Japan has dark skinned people as well...). It does line up with a general sense of wanting to improve diversity in Nintendo's games within the last few years though, ARMS and Xenoblade X being a few other examples. Mario and Zelda still feel like they're falling short though despite the presence of Gerudos in BOTW (whose portrayal I think is a mixed bag overall, but that's another topic).
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
If I had to guess, it's because ever since gen 5 the regions have been based on places outside of Japan so they have attempted to show more diversity with character designs (even though Japan has dark skinned people as well...). It does line up with a general sense of wanting to improve diversity in Nintendo's games within the last few years though, ARMS and Xenoblade X being a few other examples. Mario and Zelda still feel like they're falling short though despite the presence of Gerudos in BOTW (whose portrayal I think is a mixed bag overall, but that's another topic).
I do not expect anything good in that regard from zelda and its fanbase. Its sad, but I don't. This is a fanbase of a series where the protagonist can be reincarnated into any goddamned thing and they will give dissortations as to why he needs to be white and male and explain why they sexist or racist. And then get in their feelings that link is barely a character and him being changed or a CaC would change nothing. I'm out here playing BOTW and zelda is fucking having an emotional break down and link looks like a lifeless doll in the background. But he totally is a character guys. Bleh. It feels like nintendo fears as though those people are most of that fanbase and they cant break from it.

Mario confuses me because it kinda seems like an active decision, not saying zelda isn't. But considering miyamoto wants mario to be mickey mouse in his own words, it would do well to be I dunno a bit more inclusive. Mickey has the advantage of being anthropomorphic and the view can read any race they want to into the character. Mario is a white dude, a cartoony white dude but a white dude. So it seems kinda weird for them to watch mario to be bigger than ever, but not take any active steps to like... include other types of people in that scenairio
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
13,967
I do not expect anything good in that regard from zelda and its fanbase. Its sad, but I don't. This is a fanbase of a series where the protagonist can be reincarnated into any goddamned thing and they will give dissortations as to why he needs to be white and male and explain why they sexist or racist. And then get in their feelings that link is barely a character and him being changed or a CaC would change nothing. I'm out here playing BOTW and zelda is fucking having an emotional break down and link looks like a lifeless doll in the background. But he totally is a character guys. Bleh. It feels like nintendo fears as though those people are most of that fanbase and they cant break from it.

Mario confuses me because it kinda seems like an active decision, not saying zelda isn't. But considering miyamoto wants mario to be mickey mouse in his own words, it would do well to be I dunno a bit more inclusive. Mickey has the advantage of being anthropomorphic and the view can read any race they want to into the character. Mario is a white dude, a cartoony white dude but a white dude. So it seems kinda weird for them to watch mario to be bigger than ever, but not take any active steps to like... include other types of people in that scenairio
You could write a fucking dissertation on the Zelda series upholding white supremacist ideals by featuring the lily blond, pale skinned elf royalty/chosen ones fighting the evil, Arab-coded dark skinned man from the desert that is literally the only male of his race... but you get the idea.

Mario I think comes from Miyamoto initially wanting to push back against the human characters taking the spotlight; he was against the idea of Rosalina having the storybook in Galaxy and they've stopped creating new characters for spin-offs, even a couple of the old sport games had dark skinned humans. Instead of making a new focal human character for Odyssey, they brought back Pauline. Generally speaking post-Wii/DS they feel very hesitant to add new major Mario characters, especially new humans. New Donk City had black NPCs though... which is... uh, something, I guess.

Hopefully as more new blood comes to work on Nintendo games, the tide will shift.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
You could write a fucking dissertation on the Zelda series upholding white supremacist ideals by featuring the lily blond, pale skinned elf royalty/chosen ones fighting the evil, Arab-coded dark skinned man from the desert that is literally the only male of his race... but you get the idea.

Mario I think comes from Miyamoto initially wanting to push back against the human characters taking the spotlight; he was against the idea of Rosalina having the storybook in Galaxy and they've stopped creating new characters for spin-offs, even a couple of the old sport games had dark skinned humans. Instead of making a new focal human character for Odyssey, they brought back Pauline. Generally speaking post-Wii/DS they feel very hesitant to add new major Mario characters, especially new humans. New Donk City had black NPCs though... which is... uh, something, I guess.

Hopefully as more new blood comes to work on Nintendo games, the tide will shift.
My fear is that even with new blood a lot of control will still be maintained over mario and zelda, because they are " Mario and Zelda" and all the change will come with everything else. Nevermind that pokemon is bigger than both of them, and started changing years ago. But gamefreak is kind of its own thing
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,347
Miami, FL
Is Rock Lock the first POC to appear in My Hero Academia?
The first Black/Brown skin person on the show as a hero? Yeah

You see some in the first movie as extras.

But there were dark skined trainers with her skin that skin tone?

2 in gen 5 actually, not to say progress still can't be made, just mentioning that
I don't understand. There were, some of which you listed already. And as far as I know, Nessa is the only time there's been this issue with whitewashing and it was with fanart (not even in official art/merch like the fuckery with the Splatoon 2 Marina doll). Pokemon has had people of a variety of skin tons in a variety of roles since they Gen 5 when they started basing them on places outside of Japan

My bad ya'll I wrote my response really fast. I just wanted to highlight the weird ass thing were people make dark character lighter.

Also we all know Black & Brown is a multitude of shades right? So yeah I get her tweet. It's not saying there weren't any prior she means her skin tone.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
The first Black/Brown skin person on the show as a hero? Yeah

You see some in the first movie as extras.





My bad ya'll I wrote my response really fast. I just wanted to highlight the weird ass thing were people make dark character lighter.

Also we all know Black & Brown is a multitude of shades right? So yeah I get her tweet. It's not saying there weren't any prior she means her skin tone.
It was never on this racist scale or rather in the racist lime light but it happened actually

Mad fan art of pokemon artists just not getting skin tones right.

This is the first time it's been so blatant. it's something that's been building for a while. This is in combination with folks trying to say some of the black pokemon characters weren't black for the longest.

Some with some form of social science and psychology degree could problably do you one better. But I figure in a few cases its folks not wanting to come to terms with that they like or in the case of nessa and Olivia they wish to sexualize the characters but for very obvious racist reasons dont want to sexualize black ones. "Oh I just think the art looks better this way" was a frequent excuse.

But it happened , it just finally boiled over
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,347
Miami, FL
It was never on this racist scale or rather in the racist lime light but it happened actually

Mad fan art of pokemon artists just not getting skin tones right.

This is the first time it's been so blatant. it's something that's been building for a while. This is in combination with folks trying to say some of the black pokemon characters weren't black for the longest.

Some with some form of social science and psychology degree could problably do you one better. But I figure in a few cases its folks not wanting to come to terms with that they like or in the case of nessa and Olivia they wish to sexualize the characters but for very obvious racist reasons dont want to sexualize black ones. "Oh I just think the art looks better this way" was a frequent excuse.

But it happened , it just finally boiled over
You right man.

That's why I like to see us talk about this after a major game release with Black and Brown folks.
 

Mr Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
938
It bothers me that the internet can influence my life enough that I read Tom Hanks and think "The Last Nigga On Earth ".

Sup Y'all.
 
Nov 17, 2017
7,892
Oh no oh god oh no

I do not expect anything good in that regard from zelda and its fanbase. Its sad, but I don't. This is a fanbase of a series where the protagonist can be reincarnated into any goddamned thing and they will give dissortations as to why he needs to be white and male and explain why they sexist or racist. And then get in their feelings that link is barely a character and him being changed or a CaC would change nothing. I'm out here playing BOTW and zelda is fucking having an emotional break down and link looks like a lifeless doll in the background. But he totally is a character guys. Bleh. It feels like nintendo fears as though those people are most of that fanbase and they cant break from it.
One thing I've noticed is that whole "Is Link an avatar or a character" conversation tends to revolve around the idea of Nintendo making a female Link to be more inclusive. I don't see nearly as many people pushing for a PoC Link as much as a female Link or Linkle and I think that says a lot. I've brought it up before and a lot of people will say something like "well he'd have to be a Gerudo." That always bothered me because there really isn't anything that says Hylians have to be white. It's great now too since BotW is the first Zelda game to have unambiguously black and brown Hylians.



Personally, I feel that Link is a character in some games more than others. For example, I definitely see him as a character in Twilight Princess as opposed to BotW where he feels like such a blank slate. I think the "Link is a character" argument in that scenario is often more about Link being an iconic member of the Nintendo cast of characters. Even when the Links look different they all share enough traits that they still identify as the same character on that broader scale. However, I think a big hole in that argument is the idea that Link needs to be white and male to read as Link and not just some random CaC. After all, a big part of Link's identity is his green hat and tunic but as Breath of the Wild shows, it's not really that important in the end because no matter what he wears, he still looks like Link. I don't see any reason why they couldn't do the same thing while changing Link's race or sex. I think any skilled character designer could pull that off and I'm not just talking about taking Link and making his skin brown either. Do I think Nintendo would ever do it though? Hahahaha
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,375
I do not expect anything good in that regard from zelda and its fanbase. Its sad, but I don't. This is a fanbase of a series where the protagonist can be reincarnated into any goddamned thing and they will give dissortations as to why he needs to be white and male and explain why they sexist or racist. And then get in their feelings that link is barely a character and him being changed or a CaC would change nothing. I'm out here playing BOTW and zelda is fucking having an emotional break down and link looks like a lifeless doll in the background. But he totally is a character guys. Bleh. It feels like nintendo fears as though those people are most of that fanbase and they cant break from it.

Mario confuses me because it kinda seems like an active decision, not saying zelda isn't. But considering miyamoto wants mario to be mickey mouse in his own words, it would do well to be I dunno a bit more inclusive. Mickey has the advantage of being anthropomorphic and the view can read any race they want to into the character. Mario is a white dude, a cartoony white dude but a white dude. So it seems kinda weird for them to watch mario to be bigger than ever, but not take any active steps to like... include other types of people in that scenairio
Nintendo is a weird company when it comes to many things but the fan base never presses them to do better so they don’t
 

Avixph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
629
Evening peeps.
So now TPCI is going after leakers.
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,347
Miami, FL
Oh no oh god oh no


One thing I've noticed is that whole "Is Link an avatar or a character" conversation tends to revolve around the idea of Nintendo making a female Link to be more inclusive. I don't see nearly as many people pushing for a PoC Link as much as a female Link or Linkle and I think that says a lot. I've brought it up before and a lot of people will say something like "well he'd have to be a Gerudo." That always bothered me because there really isn't anything that says Hylians have to be white. It's great now too since BotW is the first Zelda game to have unambiguously black and brown Hylians.



Personally, I feel that Link is a character in some games more than others. For example, I definitely see him as a character in Twilight Princess as opposed to BotW where he feels like such a blank slate. I think the "Link is a character" argument in that scenario is often more about Link being an iconic member of the Nintendo cast of characters. Even when the Links look different they all share enough traits that they still identify as the same character on that broader scale. However, I think a big hole in that argument is the idea that Link needs to be white and male to read as Link and not just some random CaC. After all, a big part of Link's identity is his green hat and tunic but as Breath of the Wild shows, it's not really that important in the end because no matter what he wears, he still looks like Link. I don't see any reason why they couldn't do the same thing while changing Link's race or sex. I think any skilled character designer could pull that off and I'm not just talking about taking Link and making his skin brown either. Do I think Nintendo would ever do it though? Hahahaha
Man this is a great point homie. Like as per BoW Zelda got all kinds of melanin now. The Link as a hero/avatar is a weird stance. But the thing about videogames is that strange holding onto tradition. Videogames is a digital entertainment medium that changes like any other. So the argument of keeping things the same doesnt hold up much.

But Link can definitely be anyone
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,377
Oman
Oretty sure there is an article if not a study that has shown that the human player relates to the video game character they play as be it that the character is a blank slate or his a modicum of their own personality.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
Oretty sure there is an article if not a study that has shown that the human player relates to the video game character they play as be it that the character is a blank slate or his a modicum of their own personality.
I don't mind that, just let me customize the blank slate doll that is my avatar. That's it. Let me make link a girl, or black or whatever. BOTW with a CaC is my goddamn dream game
Yeah there probably is or someone is writing it

😭🥺

They look like a final fantasy party in the desert looking for the guy who gives them chocobo's
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,347
Miami, FL
Homie with the shirt got extra armor so he's the tank

So I didn't want to talk about this yet but seeing as it was posted. Let's talk.

So what's really really sad about this. The first time cosplayer was worried to post her photo. Because she was nervous to how it would be received. We Black folks loved it but then she was hit with rampant racism.

So the very thing she was rightfully concerned about happened. Then she had to lock her account and it's now on private because of all the racist bullshit she got.

What's wild is of course when it's a white woman that does this kinda cosplay there's not a peep. Oh my god perfect. But the minute a dark skin woman cosplays a light skin character mfs come out in hordes to be racists.

A lot of Black cosplayer sent support and called out the racism happening yeah. Which is great. You know I haven't seen much from non Black cosplayers with a platform. Geez I wonder why?

And like it's been said on Twitter all these conversations and RTs feel phony. Because it happened in response to racism. & white people share the what 2 Black cosplayers if they do.

Anyway a lot of Black are/were talking how the cosplay community has this problem. I personally make it a point to have shared work by Black folks mainly.

What I hate the most about this aside from the fact anti Blackness happens everyday that end in Y. A Black woman ran into racism when she wanted to show love for something she liked. When she and anyone has that right.

So I short, I'm keep preaching and sharing Blackity Black ass content. Because it's still obvious we have to rely on ourselves
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
Folks Were commenting "nezuka is white" and I'm like do folks just choose to not paying attention to conflicting information with no evidence. How is this japanese character with a japanese name in japan, white

And then I though about our current reality and sighed
 

Ojhe

Member
Apr 13, 2018
472
Bronx
lol my little brother is Chinese and I’ve had white people come up to him speaking butchered Japanese & Korean. So whenever bigotry like this goes down in any of these communities that are based around Asian media I’m never surprised.
 
Nov 17, 2017
7,892
Folks Were commenting "nezuka is white" and I'm like do folks just choose to not paying attention to conflicting information with no evidence. How is this japanese character with a japanese name in japan, white

And then I though about our current reality and sighed


It really is funny and sad how many hoops anime fans will jump through to claim an anime character as white. Even with the brown skinned anime characters, if there's even a slight bit of ambiguity due to art style, people will be like "aren't they just tanned?"
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,347
Miami, FL
Folks Were commenting "nezuka is white" and I'm like do folks just choose to not paying attention to conflicting information with no evidence. How is this japanese character with a japanese name in japan, white

And then I though about our current reality and sighed


It really is funny and sad how many hoops anime fans will jump through to claim an anime character as white. Even with the brown skinned anime characters, if there's even a slight bit of ambiguity due to art style, people will be like "aren't they just tanned?"
So whiteness is a function of power and erasure and claiming what isn't yours is an age old tradition
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,373
I was accused for detracting from a point in another thread because I didn't want to evoke world war II or the Iraq war as comparison points as to what video game is more influential.

wut
 

AgPhoenix

Member
Oct 27, 2017
109
Folks Were commenting "nezuka is white" and I'm like do folks just choose to not paying attention to conflicting information with no evidence. How is this japanese character with a japanese name in japan, white

And then I though about our current reality and sighed
As someone who was a mod at Cosplay.com back in the day, NONE of this surprises me. Peeps were ignorant as fuck back then too. However with the evolution of Social Media, this fuckery is just spotlighted better.