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Deleted member 249

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Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
I'm sure you all remember Game Dev Tycoon- it was a riff on Game Dev Story, a great iOS and Android game studio sim, that made waves a few years ago when it released on PC. This week, it launched on iOS- by all accounts, this should have been a slam dunk. The game was $5, with no ads, no further monetization, incredible word of mouth and reviews, and perfectly suited to iOS. What happened next, however, is sobering:

--

Sale Numbers

1,463 copies in 24 hours is pretty good for a first game on a platform but if you take into account our audience and if we compare this data to other platforms and to the amount of copies we have to sell to break even on the mobile version, it becomes more sobering.

Even on the Windows 8 Store, back in 2011 when we had an audience reach of zero and very few people had Windows 8 (and even fewer wanted to have anything to do with the Store app on it), we sold around 450 copies on day one. Given the massive reach of iOS, the much lower price ($4.99) and given that we (tried) to reach our audience we certainly hoped for a better launch day.

day-nosteam-850x482-529x300.png

To give another comparison, when the game launched on Steam we sold over 32,700 copies on day one.
day-withsteam-850x482-529x300.png

App Store patience

Apple says that it can take up to 24 hours for the Store to be updated and show new releases. They are not kidding. We sent our newsletter out six hours after the game release (after we had tested the game link extensively among the team and our friends) but even 18 hours after release people were still saying that the link resolved to nothing. Game Dev Tycoon was also not showing up in search results and we were simply not visible in the Store for the clear majority of the day. This was rather stressful and unexpected. We certainly would consider a soft launch next time we release something on the App Store.

Charts

During the end of the first day, we did show up in Top Paid games' charts across the world which, given the sales numbers, was surprising. In the US we made spot 42 under Top Paid and in many 'Strategy' lists we were in the Top 20.

app-annie-ranking.png


If you are wondering what Rank 42 in Top Paid relates to in Top Grossing category, the answer is apparently Rank 1,560+ which, together with our earnings from our first day, just highlights how steep the Top charts on the App Store fall. I suspect for premium games, if you are not in the Top 30, you are not very profitable (though this is all based on App Annie rather than data from Apple so take it with a grain of salt).


---

You can check out the full release day analysis for yourself on Greenheart's website.

For me, it's the fact that a game can sell just 1600 copies and still rank in the top 50 that's the most eye opening- it indicates that, in spite of the massive, billion device install base iOS has, most people are not paying for games. This also demonstrates that traditional games apparently simply don't have a market on iOS (and even less so on Android, where people are known to spend less money on apps)- $5 is not a huge amount for a great game that can last you dozens of hours (I have over a hundred hours on the Steam release, and another hundred from the pre-Steam one)- but people won't spend that money.

What this should demonstrate more than anything is how top heavy the mobile market is. You can make bank, as long as you are at the top- but if you are not, it's a struggle to even get noticed, and make any money back. It also shows that mobile gamers are so used to the idea of games being free, they won't spend any money on them- they would rather have their games lag with bullshit ads, or spend hundreds of dollars on abusive in app purchases, than spend the price of one coffee on a great game.

What this shows us, most of all, that mobiles may have a massive install base- but as a gaming platform, they are not necessarily commercially viable for everyone. Sure, you can have the good luck of inexplicably going viral like Flappy Bird did; or you can have a major brand attached to you like Pokemon GO did (and even that's not a guarantee, as Mario Run showed us); or you can have hundreds of millions to advertise your game relentlessly, like with Clash of Clans and Game of War, so that mobile gamers will at least look into downloading the game once, leading to those games charting, and then further downloads and interest- but what if you don't have those hundreds of millions of dollars? What then?

What I am saying is, mobile gaming has become a race to the bottom, with games being devalued to the point that a paid game doesn't even need to sell much to chart, and you need to have equity via brand recognition or advertising to do well. The dream of mobile gaming being the future doesn't seem that likely, given the situation as suggested by this example (and many others, including something as surefire of a hit as Super Mario Run).
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
I have to ask, is this some thread a way to let people know the game has been released? It's not clear if you yourself are the dev or not.

It takes a lot for me to pay for anything on mobile, regardless of what type of app it is. The same goes for Desktop applications in general.

The quality of paid phone games aren't necessarily that much better than the free ones, and there are so many free ones to choose from.
 

eKongDiddy

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,521
Beach City
Yeesh. Puts into perspective the backlash Nintendo got for charging $10 for Mario Run. Games on mobile devices just aren't as profitable as they are on dedicated devices. You have to be free to play, rely on ads, and resort to micro transactions if you want to make money on the platform. It's pretty much trying to be the next fad.

I bought Game Dev Tycoon the other day, but buying games on iPhone makes no sense to me when there are plenty of free choices to choose from.
 

halvvapoori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
368
Amsterdam
The mobile game market definitely isn't nice to paid apps, this puts things into perspective especially when you compare it to the top grossing chart which is full of f2p games.
Didn't apple once say they want to make the App Store environment friendlier towards paid apps?
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
1) There is a market for paid games. Paid games and ports release on mobile every week, so often that it's overwhelming and impossible to keep up. There are many developers who only or mostly release paid games and have been able to do so for years. Inkle, Simogo, TinyTouchTales, Ustwo, Fireproof Games, Michael Brough, Fallen Tree Games, Wave Light Games, to name a few

A paid game will never sell as much or be downloaded as much as free games, but not being as successful doesn't equal not successful. They're successful enough among their audience

2) Game Dev Tycoon's PC release was riding a pretty large wave of internet and critical attention due to its unique anti-piracy measures. It also was, as far as I can tell, the first game like that to release on PC. Game Dev Story has been on iOS for years now.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
2) Game Dev Tycoon's PC release was riding a pretty large wave of internet and critical attention due to its unique anti-piracy measures. It also was, as far as I can tell, the first game like that to release on PC. Game Dev Story has been on iOS for years now.
This is hardly a good excuse given that every other game on iOS is either a match three, or a tapper, or a 'strategy' game.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
Yeesh. Puts into perspective the backlash Nintendo got for charging $10 for Mario Run. Games on mobile devices just aren't as profitable as they are on dedicated devices. You have to be free to play, rely on ads, and resort to micro transactions if you want to make money on the platform. It's pretty much trying to be the next fad.

I bought Game Dev Tycoon the other day, but buying games on iPhone makes no sense to me when there are plenty of free choices to choose from.
Aside from the "I don't pay for mobile games" crowd, the backlash was about charging $10 for a runner, not that they were charging money for a runner. Rayman, Lost Socks, and other quality/premium runners tend to be in the $3-$5 range. $10 or higher is usually reserved for major ports or expansive games like board game adaptations, 4X games, cRPGs, and so on.

Mario may be a major brand but its gameplay was nothing special or unique compared to the comparable games in the subgenre.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,255
Apple removed the wishlist in iOS11, so all the games I were tracking will no longer get purchased by me. They are lost in the ether.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,830
Without backing or a really good hook I can't imagine how one gets noticed? Their are a gazillion mobile games daily. I usually just get the free games and if I enjoy it I'll pay throw the devs 5-10 bucks. But it's hard to compete in the paid game market with the top ten being Minecraft and such.
 

bluemax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
140
I used to work on F2P mobile games, we had some stuff that on iOS was in the low 100s for games category (not overall) and they were making only a few grand a month.

Mobile is not a good place to be small anymore. Everything is trend based and that shit changes super fast.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
This is hardly a good excuse given that every other game on iOS is either a match three, or a tapper, or a 'strategy' game.
How is it an excuse? There was nothing like Game Dev Tycoon on PC when it released and it had a ton of attention due to the media coverage.

On the other hand, Game Dev Story was hugely popular when it released. Major sites covered and reviewed it. Eurogamer, IGN, Giant Bomb, and other sites reviewed the iOS release.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
Without backing or a really good hook I can't imagine how one gets noticed? Their are a gazillion mobile games daily. I usually just get the free games and if I enjoy it I'll pay throw the devs 5-10 bucks. But it's hard to compete in the paid game market with the top ten being Minecraft and such.
Same way PC games get noticed. Reviews, media coverage, word of mouth, and being highlighted on the curated front page among the other featured releases
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
How is it an excuse? There was nothing like Game Dev Tycoon on PC when it released and it had a ton of attention due to the media coverage.

On the other hand, Game Dev Story was hugely popular when it released. Major sites covered and reviewed it. Eurogamer, IGN, Giant Bomb, and other sites reviewed the iOS release.
My point is a hugely popular game like Clash of Kings hasn't stopped other games that have followed in its wake from being successful- most popular iOS games are Clash of Kings/Candy Crush clones. If multiple titles in those genres can find success, nothing should stop a Game Dev Story clone, and one releasing SEVEN YEARS after it, from finding success, too.
 

Starmud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,443
Relying on mobile alone is hard, there's a few between I like to point out as examples who have cultivated an audience and took advantage to expand product from their games.

Iron side studios has done an excellent job of carving out a piece of the marketplace and keeping a fan base. The later release on steam has helped but they also offer in app content for sale along with an entry price.

As for small devs, Mika Mobile is like two guys? And has found success on iOS with a few releases and once again with making a product suited to the system and building an audience for their aesthetic of game play and design.

You can find sucsess without being one of the top grossers or f2p but it more often requires finding your nichie and building from mobile to start.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
My point is a hugely popular game like Clash of Kings hasn't stopped other games that have followed in its wake from being successful- most popular iOS games are Clash of Kings/Candy Crush clones. If multiple titles in those genres can find success, nothing should stop a Game Dev Story clone, and one releasing SEVEN YEARS after it, from finding success, too.
Nothing except interest and visibility. And Game Dev Tycoon being way late to the party. And that fact that other paid games and ports released this week.

Even among paid games, it was overshadowed by GNOG, Neverending Nightmares, and Grid Autosports
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
Yeesh. Puts into perspective the backlash Nintendo got for charging $10 for Mario Run. Games on mobile devices just aren't as profitable as they are on dedicated devices. You have to be free to play, rely on ads, and resort to micro transactions if you want to make money on the platform. It's pretty much trying to be the next fad.

I bought Game Dev Tycoon the other day, but buying games on iPhone makes no sense to me when there are plenty of free choices to choose from.
Mario Run's issue was being overly expensive, not that good, barebones content and being online only as well.
 

deussupreme

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
404
I avoid mobile altogether now. Outside of Mario Run and ten minutes of Pokemon Go, I haven't played a mobile game in at least three years. Got tired of sifting through all of the free to play BS with microtransactions. There are also a lot of garbage games flooding the market, so I don't even bother looking in the app stores anymore. I'd go back if the content was curated.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,281
Relying on mobile alone is hard, there's a few between I like to point out as examples who have cultivated an audience and took advantage to expand product from their games.

Iron side studios has done an excellent job of carving out a piece of the marketplace and keeping a fan base. The later release on steam has helped but they also offer in app content for sale along with an entry price.

As for small devs, Mika Mobile is like two guys? And has found success on iOS with a few releases and once again with making a product suited to the system and building an audience for their aesthetic of game play and design.

You can find sucsess without being one of the top grossers or f2p but it more often requires finding your nichie and building from mobile to start.
Well said.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,255

Yeah. I mean I remember the big games like Final Fantasy VI that I check the price from time to time because I'm not paying that Square tax. However there were smaller gems that I wishlisted that I can't remember the names of. It makes no sense to get rid of it. Now the likelihood a game continues to sell after release is going to be pretty slim.
 

LordBaztion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,808
Lima Perú
that's what worries me about the all digital future, the limited exposure games has in a single limited storefront. More with the rise of evergreen games that problem may increase. Thankfully gamers are for the most part incisive enough to know what they are looking for.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
I avoid mobile altogether now. Outside of Mario Run and ten minutes of Pokemon Go, I haven't played a mobile game in at least three years. Got tired of sifting through all of the free to play BS with microtransactions. There are also a lot of garbage games flooding the market, so I don't even bother looking in the app stores anymore. I'd go back if the content was curated.
The content is curated. Just like Steam has Popular New Releases and Featured sales and whatnot, the App Store has the same.


I think I've made this same point and took these same kinds of screenshots in practically every thread about mobile games over the last 2 or 3 years
 

MarioW

PikPok
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,155
New Zealand
Releasing on mobile as a paid title is very challenging. The number of people actually willing to pay for mobile games up front is very small, AND those people generally have very high expectations for their 99c or $2.99 - much higher than the standards of what people expect for their dollar on PC for example. That combined with platform featuring (assuming you are lucky enough to get it) being very fleeting, and the marketplace being very crowded, having that small audience willing to pay even being able to find your game is tough. Creating and maintaining momentum is just very challenging.

Releasing free from the outset, regardless of your business model to monetize it, does tend to give you a bigger audience which is more sustainable from greater word of mouth, and therefore more time to tune your business model to get the results you need. Even then, mobile is a tough marketplace.

To give an example from our own experience, back in 2012 Apple included about 1.5s of footage from one of our games in an iPod Touch TV and web ad. That shot the paid version of that game which was 99c up to the top 10 paid app charts in the US. The free ad supported game with no inapp purchases managed to only get up into the top 50 free app charts. But the free version was making 10x as much revenue as the paid one. I don't think we have released a paid game on mobile since 2012, and while our portfolio still has a handful of paid games they literally only make up less than 0.01% of our day to day revenue. Checking in on the paid and free game referenced, both are just sitting there as legacy titles, and the free one now makes 20-40x the paid one day to day.

Releasing a paid game on mobile can work but in order to achieve success you better have low ongoing costs, be targeting an undeserved niche with a high quality product, building up a portfolio of games to move you customers through over time, and working hard to get Apple and Google to notice you.
 

EIGHTVEE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
47
Apple removed the wishlist in iOS11, so all the games I were tracking will no longer get purchased by me. They are lost in the ether.
Oh, there was a wishlist before? I put the iOS beta on my iPad as soon as I got it (I heard about all the iPad-specific things being added), so I assumed that was just one of those iOS things that didn't make sense (like notifications).
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
I think there's a huge gulf in the perceived value of games between those who primarily game on consoles and those who game on smartphones. I'm planning to release a game to mobile in the future but I'm definitely not going to do it asking for money up front. If you're unknown or don't have large brand recognition, I think you're better off releasing free with mtx on the backend.

I know mtx get a bad rep but I believe there's a way to utilize them in a reasonable and ethical manner. I'm personally planning for a free release that gives you several levels free then you can buy additional levels packs separately for like $0.50 if you want to nickle and dime it or just buy the rest of everything for a discounted price. I hope people see that as reasonable.

Conversely, on console I'd release at a single reasonable price point up front because that audience sees more value in games in general and is less hesitant on spending money on games.
That "free with a game unlock IAP" model is pretty common.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,048
I still think the problem is that iOS is even one single store at all.

I think there could be a market for traditional games on iOS -- if it was actually treated separate somehow and if people accepted it will never be as big as the mainstream hits. It's like comparing mid-level PlayStation games to the most popular mobile games, people don't expect them to compete and they don't.

I just think one app store is too narrow a channel to properly show off the totality of software that's being produced for an operating system as widespread as iOS. I don't use Android, but I'm still surprised Google Play is the only significant Android software store in existence. I haven't really heard about other ones that maybe have a more curated focus or focus on certain niches.
 

HighFive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,622
Ios11 is a piece of crap. I got tons of games that no longer work, and since their old, no update....

Screw this market honestly, im not speding 1$ more on IOS.
 

SuperPac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,324
Seattle, WA
Seems pretty cut and dried - developer makes mobile version of popular steam game based on the assumption of mobile market riches, is surprised(?) when they discover what premium mobile games are able to generate in 2017. Steam back in 2012 is very different from Steam in 2017 so I hope they're going to temper expectations of whatever their next game is accordingly too or they will be in for a somewhat rude awakening. Not saying they should have gone F2P on mobile, but, even looking at publicly available tools and blog entries from other developers they could have ballparked their potential success in premium. Even with the port taking a year, a year ago the state of premium games on mobile was similar.
 

munancho

Banned for suspected use of alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
394
Signal to noise ratio. And cheapskates. Darn cheapskates.
 

Hattori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
474
I think the new iteration of the App Store is a step forward, I actually open the app to see what the featured games and apps of the day are
 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
In the last year, I've basically stopped playing mobile games at all.

I tried Pokémon GO and Mario, but honestly don't think I've played any since those came out. I used to buy/play a lot more but now almost everything big is gatcha, has some secondary currency related to IAP, or some other cash grab mechanic. Wading through the crap sours the whole experience for me.
 

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,232
It's not that strange when you think that mobile audience isn't really a "segment" of the population. It's literally everyone, except toddlers. You can't expect everyone to care about games (otherwise game sales would be through the roof), the only way to get them interested is giving the game away for free. Most people out there don't give any value to videogames and thus aren't willing to spend a dime to play one.
 

gcwy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,685
Houston, TX
Yeesh. Puts into perspective the backlash Nintendo got for charging $10 for Mario Run. Games on mobile devices just aren't as profitable as they are on dedicated devices. You have to be free to play, rely on ads, and resort to micro transactions if you want to make money on the platform. It's pretty much trying to be the next fad.

I bought Game Dev Tycoon the other day, but buying games on iPhone makes no sense to me when there are plenty of free choices to choose from.
I don't see how this is relevant in any way. The backlash was for a barebones mobile game costing $10was fully justified, comparing it to GDT, a $5 port (a good one at that) of a PC game is ridiculous.
 
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Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,794
The dream of mobile gaming being the future doesn't seem that likely, given the situation as suggested by this example (and many others, including something as surefire of a hit as Super Mario Run).

The potential dominance of mobile gaming isn't a dream, it's a nightmare. So many horrible business practices and an audience that largely doesn't want to pay for anything.
 
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More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
Wading through the crap sours the whole experience for me.
I never got comments like this. When you say "wading through the crap", are you like literally just scrolling through the App Store and downloading random games?

I get the sense that half the people who say stuff like that just go to the Top Downloaded Chart or something. That's the only way I can fathom the whole "it's so hard to find stuff, everything I download is just F2P gatcha" reactions
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,356

I'm in a similar boat. I had several games on my wish list that I was looking at, and hoping to buy when I had:

1.) More Time/Trips planned
2.) When they had a sale

With iOS 11, Apple removed the Wish List, so now I have no idea what games I was tracking lol.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
The dream of mobile gaming being the future doesn't seem that likely, given the situation as suggested by this example (and many others, including something as surefire of a hit as Super Mario Run).
What dream? Who ever realistically was trying to make mobile games the future of gaming? If anything, those kinds of comments came across as knee jerk reactions to mobile games making so much money

Mobile was, is, never will be the future because it isn't trying to be and never was. It's just another co-existing platform like PC and consoles, has been for almost a decade now
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,898
JP
I love mobile as a platform (I've always been more into handhelds than home consoles) and there are a lot of actually great games on iOS and Android - but mobile gaming absolutely didn't turn out as I thought it would, and it's really not in a great state at the moment. It truly seems like there's no room for premium games (premium being $5 USD, lol) for the most part, and I refuse to play the money-hungry, always-online, basically gameplay-less "games" that dominate mobile gaming. That's why sites like Touch Arcade and Pocket Gamer are important, as well as the mobile threads here on Era.
 

Owlowiscious

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,473
A game from 2012 is released five years later on iOS

Why would it sell well?

Also I'm a little bias as I bought the steam release and hated the progression system, which ruins what I believed to be the whole point of the game

(you had to develop games in a specific way and certain pattern to make any constant stream of good rated games)

So I'm also saying why would a game I believe to be bad sell well?
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,949
I'm pretty well invested into this hobby, and I won't spend money on a mobile game.

I do my mobile gaming when I need to kill a few minutes of time. Its not a platform I turn to when I want to get lost in a game, so why devote my play money towards it? Hearthstone is the only game I'm dedicated to on mobile and it's a free to play game in an ocean of free to play games. Mobile is a platform where in my eyes, I don't need to spend money to find a game to entertain me. I have so many free options that it's crazy, and it's not just playing games that's competing for my attention but social apps.

On top of that I was burned as a few games I did drop money on were lost, because the developer abandoned them. So screw it.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Pretty much all of the stuff in OP is well-known to anyone who's released on mobile. "Premium" games do not sell unless they're Minecraft.

However, just to note a few other things.

1. They got limited featuring on iOS in the "Games We Love" section, which probably resulted in most of their sales. Once they're out of featuring, it'll probably dip dramatically. Considering they didn't know if Apple would feature them or not, this is pretty bad. They should've contacted Apple to inquire about featuring.
2. Their UA (user acquisition) was limited to social media. Good luck with that! Major mobile launches spend huge money on UA campaigns via integrated mobile ad networks, but it'll be real hard to justify that when your CPI (cost per install) might end up being higher than you app price.
3. When releasing in mobile, it's generally a good idea to stealth release, then announce it later. This gets around the propagation time. But I guess they know that now!
 
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Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,290
New York
In the last year, I've basically stopped playing mobile games at all.

I tried Pokémon GO and Mario, but honestly don't think I've played any since those came out. I used to buy/play a lot more but now almost everything big is gatcha, has some secondary currency related to IAP, or some other cash grab mechanic. Wading through the crap sours the whole experience for me.

Yea, this is my current take on the mobile industry. Damn shame but the same people that will spend hundreds of dollars on a new iPhone every year with no hesitation are too cheap to spend 5-10 bucks for good games. So much potential but the cheapskates forced mobile devs to put shitty mechanics in these games to turn a buck. And I'm all for the base game being free and paying for content. But paying to ease up manipulative game mechanics such as potions/timers/tokens disgust me.

I'm pretty well invested into this hobby, and I won't spend money on a mobile game.

I do my mobile gaming when I need to kill a few minutes of time. Its not a platform I turn to when I want to get lost in a game, so why devote my play money towards it? Hearthstone is the only game I'm dedicated to on mobile and it's a free to play game in an ocean of free to play games. Mobile is a platform where in my eyes, I don't need to spend money to find a game to entertain me. I have so many free options that it's crazy, and it's not just playing games that's competing for my attention but social apps.

On top of that I was burned as a few games I did drop money on were lost, because the developer abandoned them. So screw it.

I put 60+ hours into FF3 on iOS. Best mobile experience I had. Until my phone died and the game didn't have cloud support at the time. Can't bring myself to re-grind through that game.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
Pretty much all of the stuff in OP is well-known to anyone who's released on mobile. "Premium" games do not sell unless they're Minecraft.
If premium games didn't sell, devs wouldn't keep releasing paid premium games and ports every week

I'd edit that to paid games don't sell unless they have an audience, coverage, and visibility (games from Simogo, Ustwo, Tinytouchtales, Fireproof, etc.), unless they're attached to a well-known property (Hitman Go, Lara Craft Go, FF games, etc.), or unless they're Minecraft