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YolkFolk

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,212
The North, England
*WWF Attitude PPV main event promo video package*

When 9/11 happened it was the catalyst for the war on muslims and immigrants who came from muslim countries.

The wars in Iraq/Afghanistan turned young muslims against the West.

The media idea was that any immigrant could eventually become a terrorist like we saw on 9/11, 7/7, Manchester bombings etc.

Over many years this way of thinking was pushed via the media through newspapers and news stations. This created huge amounts of distrust.

This anti media tirade turned more young muslims against the West due to them barring the brunt of these headlines.

Eventually this media theme evolved into ALL immigrants becoming a 'threat' to our way of living.

This created a visible return to far right/nazi style extremism by those brainwashed by the events of 9/11 and the follow up sustained media attack. The far right sought rid of these traitors.

These people sort a new leader who would take down these muslims/immigrants and take things back to where they used to be before 9/11 ever happened. When America was great, when the world was great.

Trump became that leader after years of media conditioning. Brexit became a thing because of the same conditioning.

Both of them are now heavily linked to Russia, and neither of them would have ever happened if it wasn't for 9/11.


What is the end game of all this?
 
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Snack12367

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,191
No offence OP, but you could easily say WW1 was the catalyst for this whole thing. You could say the Afghan Civil War is what led to 9/11.

The desire for one root cause is rational, but the truth is that when it comes to Geo-Politics is that it's always more complex.
 

Captain Goodnight

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
765
This sort of OP seems like it has a place on a different sort of board. Like the conspiracy reddit.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,380
The root cause is that millions of people have a hard time not being racist and processing information.
 
OP
OP
YolkFolk

YolkFolk

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,212
The North, England
For who?

Islamic radicals want to bring about the end of the world, the West are reacting to this by perpetuating the notion that all immigrants are bad, simply because fear is a great way of controlling the population.

Radical Islam was created through the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan, the media hate campaign against Muslims and the actions people took against Muslims fearing they were 'terrorists'.

Hate breeded hate.
 

Temp_User

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,699
I thought it was the Magnitsky Act that acts as the catalyst for for Russia to use its stooge, Donald Trump, to undermine America. As for Brexit, iirc, the immigration question (moreso towards Indians and Pakistanis and less towards Muslim Arabs) has always been a simmering topic in the UK, only it was stoked white-hot by the likes of UKIP and BoJo to further their political careers. I would probably say PR firms like Cambridge Analytica are more the catalyst for it.
 
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Openrob

Member
Nov 5, 2017
636
Humanity has never been stable, there were world wars not 100 years ago. Nationalist thinking has been around for even longer.

The literal boundary lines of countries were change often. Whole countries were broken up and created in the 20th Century.

Point being that nothing is new.
 

Ahhthe90s

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,294
The Syrian Civil War was the cause for all this shit IMO. Millions of refugee Muslims crossed into Europe without much vetting, that terrified people.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,097
Nope. Margret Thatcher and then New Labour's failure to address the harm she caused is to blame for Brexit.
 

Crocks

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
963
Nope. Margret Thatcher and then New Labour's failure to address the harm she caused is to blame for Brexit.
Hehehe. Since Thatcher ceased to be Prime Minister, the EU was created, we joined it, were in it for 23 years and then voted to leave it. Seems a bit of a stretch to blame her for us leaving an institution that didn't even exist when she stopped being in frontline politics.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,097
Hehehe. Since Thatcher ceased to be Prime Minister, the EU was created, we joined it, were in it for 23 years and then voted to leave it. Seems a bit of a stretch to blame her for us leaving an institution that didn't even exist when she stopped being in frontline politics.
Look at the areas she fucked over and then the distribution of leave votes and see if you can spot a pattern.

Edit: also you are wrong about when the EU was created.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Even without out 9/11, we still would have had Trump and Brexit. Unfortunately.
 

ADee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
963
Sweden
You could say the fall of the Ottoman Empire was the catalyst for all of this, or heck the creation of the Ottoman Empire. Why not go back to the Byzantine Empire weakening so the Ottoman Empire could be created. But then we could go back to the split of the Roman empire, but the cause of that was invading "barbarians" and the Turks. So let's blame the Seljuk Turks! But hmm the Turks wouldn't have been able to form if it hadn't been for the forming of the Sunni Islam, so let's blame Muhammed.... Though christianity beliefs helped form Islam, but the Jews helped to form the Christianity beliefs.... So let's blame the Jews... Or heck let's blame the civilization for forming religious beliefs.....

So in the end let's blame aggriculture, what made us being able to control fire, the evolution of homo sapiens... or the great ape we evolved from...
What I'm trying to say is that let's just blame the dinousaurs that would become mammals.

TLDR: History is not formed by one thing, it's a rubble rolling down a large mountain collecting everything in it's way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
I want to agree, but I just can't. A lot of the incredibly racist rhetoric has existed for god knows how long, but never was allowed to surface.
The internet is entirely to blame. Hell, the entire world would have gone a different course if GamerGate had never existed.
 

ZiZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,716
Racism, bigotry and xenophobia were present in America long before 9/11. It definitely affected the Muslim ban, but the "build the wall" and "maga" attitude would've happened regardless.
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
I would say it probably more likely stems from the financial crash and the growing mistrust of institutions and (let's say traditional) governments who fell over themselves to help while imposing hardship on the public. Immigration is just a distraction that's always used to beat the drum.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,748
You must be really young OP if your optics are limited to the 2000 era. US foreign policy in the middle east has always been a disaster.
 

Deleted member 8197

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,340
Consider this. September 11th 2001, WTC attacked, September 17th 2002, Build-a-Bear workshop is incorporated and begins trading in the UK. After years of integration and normalisation, During Trump's controversial visit to the UK, they stage the 'pay your age' riots.

Destabilise > Assume control

And we're just watching it happen.
 

Crocks

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
963
I think the truth is, basically, I've been bored ever since 9/11. I mean, I was watching the news with Mark the other day, and he was, like, all up in my grill about the euro, and I was, like, "Ooh, the Italians might leave the euro, big wow." It's not exactly planes smashing into buildings, is it? That was good news. Not good news, obviously, but good news. Y'know, in terms of events and consequences, it was just huge news. Maybe I've been bored since 9/11. They set their standards too high with 9/11, the news. They can't top it.
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
Nah, you build a country based on the idea of making the rest "others" and this Is the natural outcome. Dont look out there for the rot that has been inside the country since day one.
 

Ms.Galaxy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,653
All of this could be linked to Reagan, which can be linked to the Cold War, which can be linked to WWII which can be linked to the Great Depression, which can be linked to WW1 which can be linked to Napoleon Bonaparte, which can be linked to the French Revolution, which can be linked to the American Revolution, which can be linked to the British Imperialism, which can be linked to *continues to go back in time until the creation of the universe*

What I'm getting at is that things continue not because of one event, but rather a long trail of events that leads up to this moment.

I think the OP is right and that was Bin Ladens plan all along. I think it is working even better than he could have ever dreamed it.

This is true. His main goal was always to create political and civil unrest, and it worked, unfortunately.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
I think the OP is right and that was Bin Ladens plan all along. I think it is working even better than he could have ever dreamed it.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,149
Would be curious how many Americans even really know what led to 9/11 itself. How many American's know how fucked up the process to produce the conclusion that you needed to go to war in the east was.
Asking because this reads very ignorant in the assumption that only these things gave rise to the racism that would lead to Trump but I'm sure PoC can go even better in depth about that. But in general the greatest mistake I see people make is trying to find the easy scapegoat instead of facing the truth that things are really bad in a multitude of ways and that they're complicated.

Like there aren't even any economic reasons listed here which makes messaging/lying on certain things also very easy. Which presidents made it possible for money in politics in the form of lobbying to run wild? Which presidents were deregulating wall street? What are the laws that have news channel be able to run speculations and punditry under the "news" label as if it was all factual reporting?
Which presidents put policies in place that would ultimately harm the base that they could propaganda to just based on the black/white racism that already existed?

I feel like most unironically think once you have Trump away things going to be normal again somehow when a ton of pretty crazy gop(all of them having supported Trump in certain ways) will still be in office after.

TLDR: Reads like a critic worthy form of motivated reasoning. OP had a conclusion and then looked at a very limited amount of evidence to support it. It feels incomplete and way simple in the analysis.
 
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Scarecrow

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,515
I've been thinking about this recently, how the poor decisions made by the US in the wake of 9/11 are effecting the current climate. End game? Well, there's really no real end this. Countries will keep getting revenge on each other for past sins. People don't really look at world events by decade or century as they should. Most can't see past lunchtime.
 

ty_hot

Banned
Dec 14, 2017
7,176
Seems like the end game is to pour more money into the gun industry, the only ones that are profiting (a lot) out of all this.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Way earlier than that.

Take Bexit out of the title OP. You're equating decades of UK problems to it.

Literally. Fucking. Decades. They had a referendum in the 70s about leaving the EU and we had only been a part of it for a few years and a not insignificant amount of people (like a fifth of the population) wanted to leave and even when I was a kid in the 90s people still complained about it.

It's always been this daft belief that Europe doesn't respect us, doesn't listen to us, doesn't let us get involved and really just costs us obscene amounts of cash and expects us to just do what we're told.

Which is a load of bollocks. Even a cursory glance at the voting outcomes over the last forty years within the EU proves British values and goals typically align with European values and goals.

In reality these people just don't like that the EU isn't run by the UK the way they think it's run by Germany. Which is about as childish a reason to want to leave the EU as you can get.
 

cyba89

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,631
Meh, not convinced. You can't trace back a dozen of different events happening to one single thing. That's movie stuff but not how history works.

Why not go back further?

Why did 9/11 happen? That was also an effect of things happening before.

Without 9/11 Trump becoming President would have been impossible.

Unless someone has a time machina and prevents 9/11 literally no person can answer that.
 
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