The controversial ArenaNet firings of Guild Wars 2 writers (READ OP)

[Palazzo]

That being said, I do think the Kamiya comparison is an interesting one. Why is it that if you engage positively with your community, but then make a shitty remark, that is a problem, but if you are always a giant asshole it is strangely endearing? I am guessing people are just giving Kamiya, specifically, a giant pass...? Or maybe we see it as some form of a satirical character? I honestly don't know, but it is definitely a double standard of some sort.

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I think what makes Kamiya different is, generally speaking, if you tweet something benign at Kamiya that happens to bother him (like a repeat question), the most that will probably happen is he'll just block you without saying anything more than "blocked". He saves the actual insults for people who are directly insulting or trolling him.

This isn't to say that Kaimya isn't weirdly childish on Twitter, and it is sometimes disheartening to see some of the exchanges on his feed started by ignorant fans who don't know how his twitter works ("wow i've loved devil may cry 3 since I was five years old, you inspired me to get into game development!" -> "CHECK MY BIO. BLOCKED." but I think Price's comments actually crossed a line that Kamiya's twitter weirdness doesn't.

 

[Jom]

Why did she lash out at that guy though, nothing he wrote was inflammatory or sexist, and it certainly didnt seem like mansplaining or anything. Just someone who knows his stuff and is a fan of the game striking up conversation. Look there are sexist shitty people in this industry whom that type of response might be appropriate for, this guy didnt seem like one of them. Should she have been fired? No, in that case people like kamiya should also be fired.

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Knows his stuff? What he mansplained to her was basic knowledge to anyone who's subbed for the 30 day free trial for an MMO.

 

[newmoneytrash]

I understand why it's happening. I don't understand why people are making goofy threads or praising it online, then turning around and talking about how it's very important you treat all your customers with the utmost respect. I have no problems with Kamiya being an asshat to fans on Twitter. I also have no issue with Price doing what she did or Cliffy B owning folks on Twitter, as long as none of it denigrates into hate speech or harassment.

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Exactly. This is the point. It's not "yeah but who is going to fire Kamiya?", it's the double standard

Either you care about civility or you don't. And if you embrace Kamiya's attitude on twitter while saying Price deserved to be fired then all it shows me is a bias against Price

 

[oni-link]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

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10/10 post

 

[newmoneytrash]

Sexist

The Rapp thing was even worse because she never even did anything, just GG digging in and getting to NOA puritans

That was hardcore bullshit

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She also never said that

At least used what she said

That's moving the goal posts. You said no white male and I gave you one

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And they're explaining how it couldn't be more different. The goalposts are in the same place, you just whiffed

 

[Deleted member 888]

Yeah I was active in the Diablo forums (and playing the game) when it went down, got to report few death threats during that time. I still remember those comments almost word for word, since I was bit shocked how people think it's okay to speak like that about game devs (beheading, driving over with a car) and even do it so publicly. And I've tried to call out people here and in GAF for their attitude and comments against Cliff and BossKey, but I felt pretty fucking alone in that. Also I mentioned earlier how reading GAF made the creative director of Rime cry and he didn't even have any abrasive social media history, the game wasn't even out yet but people were incredibly cruel towards their team. Gamers can be really toxic and hostile which is a problem, as is misogyny in gaming and otherwise.

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Well said. I don't think everyone engaging in those topics was part of GG, I just thought a history lesson of this community is relevant to anyone saying the above names didn't face severe backlashes. Obviously death threats weren't flying on GAF but the Adam Orth leaves MS topic has a lot of memes about being jobless and always online searching for a job.

It's the celebrating of perceived revenge or comeuppance audiences revel in when they see someone else taken down a peg. Lots of people from all walks of life just like this and engage in it.

But that does have to be discussed alongside the fact all of the names above have faced consequences for social media behaviour ranging from genuine public criticism to employers acting in some manner.

Precisely what has happened here. People revelling in the firing or outright celebrating and a company which has acted on disciplinary measures. They're not both mutually exclusive even if they appear linked.

Not every employer is going to act like every other employer. And your level in the company and your quickness to apologize may also save your bacon or give you "extra privilege" at times. PR shit storms are what they are though and as social media has boomed in popularity many companies just don't want to take the heat. Either you fly low profile online or you might risk your job.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

That's moving the goal posts. You said no white male and I gave you one

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Ok, let's play hard: He resigned. So dosn't count.

 

[Deleted member 15326]

She also never said that

At least used what she said


And they're explaining how it couldn't be more different. The goalposts are in the same place, you just whiffed

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You can go ahead and put me on ignore b

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Sexist

The Rapp thing was even worse because she never even did anything, just GG digging in and getting to NOA puritans

That was hardcore bullshit

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Nah, Rapp was a similar situation. She broke company policy and thus was fired, even if that information was obtained through less than savory means. If anything, it was more clear cut than this situation is.

Where Nintendo failed is the same as where ANet failed; not protecting their employee from harassment, or at the very least calling it out swiftly and while it's happening. The firing was always warranted.

 

[spman2099]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

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This is an excellent post.

Nah, Rapp was a similar situation. She broke company policy and thus was fired, even if that information was obtained through less than savory means. If anything, it was more clear cut than this situation is.

Where Nintendo failed is the same as where ANet failed; not protecting their employee from harassment, or at the very least calling it out swiftly and while it's happening. The firing was always warranted.

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I think both firings were really unfortunate and handled poorly, but I think the Rapp situation was on a whole other level. It left a terrible taste in my mouth. Rapp desserved better than that.

 

[DorkyMohr]

So because someone is unpopular with a fringe radical group of Nazis means that anything they do shouldn't be acted on? Dude, GG is doing the same thing Trump did with those kids stuck in a cave with their coach. Do nothing then bandwagon on after the fact like it was all their doing. This is right wing rhetoric 101. I hate that GG is piling on but I still won't crucify AN for doing what they had to do after a developer insulted one of their partners who drives game interest and revenue.

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The degree to which this was acted on is suspect because of the GG pressure to fire her ever since she was hired.

 

[Deleted member 15326]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

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Agreed

 

[Deleted member 1635]

imagine if platinum fired kamiya every time he told some idiot on twitter to get fucked lol

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I certainly wouldn't have been surprised if he were fired long ago, but he seems to occupy a very special place at that company being a founding member and a longtime colleague with the founder.

 

[Thorn]

Ok, let's play hard: He resigned. So dosn't count.

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"We didn't fire them, they resigned!" is such an old ass business trick. Come on. How many people "resigned" from this White House Administration ?

 

[Deleted member 1635]

Adam Orth was years ago in the wake of one of the most unpopular gaming decisions ever. And he wasn't even fired inmmediatly (he actually resigned) even after gainning way more gaming press traction that this stupid incident that was a fucking fart in the middle of the Sahara desert.

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Look up Chris Pranger, then, for a much more recent example that's also much closer to this one.

 

[aSqueakyLime]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

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Really good post.

 

[a stray cat]

People just retreat to the defensible constantly. Oh, he's high on the company food chain. He can't be fired. Please don't notice that I'm criticizing a woman for being rude defending her existence as a female game developer while I giggle at a man being even more rude for literal nonsense reasons.

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I think that the fact that he's being rude for literal nonsense reasons has a very real effect on the perception of his tweets. He's just an asshole.

That Price chose to make it about gender is what made everyone straighten up and notice. Otherwise she would have just been an asshole too. However, she did make it about gender, which is a very serious subject in American Corporate, so they have to treat everything she said around it very seriously as well. Hence, she got fired. Without that, I doubt the reddit storm would have gotten nearly as large, and her disciplinary action would have been much smaller.

 

[ElectronicOldMen]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

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IDK man, I found pretty much all of Deroir's comments to be immensely condescending and honestly pretty fucking stupid.

He is at no point 'politely trying to start a conversation', or 'just asking questions', or whatever. Literally just 'well, actually' and then getting mad that Price treated it as such. Just cause he was being ostensibly 'polite' doesn't mean wasn't also being a giant fucking ass.

 

[newmoneytrash]

"We didn't fire them, they resigned!" is such an old ass business trick. Come on. How many people "resigned" from this White House Administration ?

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So to accept your single example we have to assume that an official company statement is actually lying?

And you're accusing other people of moving goalposts?

IDK man, I found pretty much all of Deroir's comments to be immensely condescending and honestly pretty fucking stupid.

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Yeah but he's a customer so he PAID for the privilege to be incredibly condescending and she should have just sat there quietly and accepted it or at least thanked him????

 

[cosmicblizzard]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

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Best take in the thread. Summed up my feelings perfectly, so I think I'm done with this thread unless I get quoted.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

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Very good post here.

 

[213372bu]

developer's don't fucking 'serve' the people who buy their games. jesus christ. they don't, and should not, and to suggest otherwise says something PROFOUNDLY fucking depressing about the medium as an art form.

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Video games are commercial products pumped out mostly with the intention of making dosh.

In an MMO especially, video games live and die by the community and constant interactions with the community, and "listening" is very much the core of what allows these services to continue.

Why people are getting red in the face to the point of barking like a fucking dog is beyond me. A dev antagonized a prominent community leader and painted him as misogynist, despite him just giving feedback which is more than usual for the genre. The dude even praised her specifically the day before and called her "a god".

Some people just can't accept that they can disagree with the firing, no, this has to man and ArenaNet has to have "enabled" the harassment of many more women to come, so as to warp their non-toxic behavior and cast them as Saturday Morning Cartoon Villains.

Hell, multiple posters in this very thread have used the dreaded ~whataboutisms~ to OK harassment against the dude. Some have been banned, but like, what?

 

[chaobreaker]

I don't disagree, but that's not on Deroir.

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It was never on him. He's post wasn't warranted is all.

 

[Gentlemen]

Yeah that is called face saving.

Resign or be fired .

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This is called goalpost moving.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

Look up Chris Pranger, then, for a much more recent example that's also much closer to this one.

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I mean, wasn't that a NDA breach?

 

[JesseEwiak]

Yeah, I don't get the Deroir was just asking a reasonable question thing. All his Tweets I've seen seem like the typical, "I know better than the game designers" post I see people trash here are on GAF in the past, including some developers. I remember the developer of Skullgirls wrecking shop on people who had no idea how much it actually costs to create characters, for example. Weird how nobody called for him to be fired or have his game boycotted when he was not very nice at all.

 

[Kumquat]

The degree to which this was acted on is suspect because of the GG pressure to fire her ever since she was hired.

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And she worked there how long before Anet "caved to the pressure," which coincidently had to do with her attacking not just some rando on twitter but a PARTNER and a content creator whos content actively drives people to their game. The same guy who said how much he loves her AMA's. He called her the god of AMA's.

ANet had every right to fire her to limit the damage to their customer base whether we agree with it or not but GG isn't the real issue here. Her attacking a partner and content creator and revenue driver out of the blue was. I get that she experiences harassment but if you are going to be a public face like this you will always have haters. You can't just lash out when you feel like it and then double down and not apologize. It's not like she lost her shit for just a second then came back to her senses. SHE IS STILL DOING IT! If I were a game studio I wouldn't hire her because she clearly can't control her anger. I would feel like I had a ticking time bomb in my company no matter how skilled she may be. You have to look at it as the head of a very profitable company who only makes said profit on one game. You have to protect that property. I hate that she was fired and would prefer a reprimand but ANet is entirely justified for doing it GG or sans GG.

 

[Blade Wolf]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

Click to shrink...

Excellent post, seriously.

 

[Hamchan]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

Click to shrink...

My feelings as well.

 

[udivision]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.
.

Click to shrink...

Well, this is like the 5th time we've attempted this thread for a reason, lol.

 

[newmoneytrash]

Yeah, I don't get the Deroir was just asking a reasonable question thing. All his Tweets I've seen seem like the typical, "I know better than the game designers" post I see people trash here are on GAF in the past, including some developers. I remember the developer of Skullgirls wrecking shop on people who had no idea how much it actually costs to create characters, for example. Weird how nobody called for him to be fired or have his game boycotted when he was not very nice at all.

Click to shrink...

Yeah his tweets being continually framed as just a polite question is incredibly disingenuous

 

[a stray cat]

Yeah but he's a customer so he PAID for the privilege to be incredibly condescending and she should have just sat there quietly and accepted it or at least thanked him????

Click to shrink...

I can't help but laugh at this.

It's like you believe the only choices she had were to reply as she did, or accept that she was wrong.

She could have ignored his comments. She could have politely disagreed. She could have taken his criticism to be genuine, and explained why she thought Deroir was wrong.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

Yeah, I don't get the Deroir was just asking a reasonable question thing. All his Tweets I've seen seem like the typical, "I know better than the game designers" post I see people trash here are on GAF in the past, including some developers. I remember the developer of Skullgirls wrecking shop on people who had no idea how much it actually costs to create characters, for example. Weird how nobody called for him to be fired or have his game boycotted when he was not very nice at all.

Click to shrink...

Don't break the narrative dude.

 

[DorkyMohr]

People are focusing way too much on Deroir and acting like Price was in a long twitter feud with him. Price told him to buzz off and then went on to talk about what his reply was emblematic of. Ironically it's what most of the issue is around this discussion is about: get it through your head gamers, not everything is about you and not everything needs your input.

 

[ElectronicOldMen]

if i'm honest i'm 100% on team 'price did literally nothing wrong and actually developers insulting condescending 'civil and polite' shithead 'community leaders' is something the industry should be encouraging, really. gamers need to be taken down a notch

 

[Deleted member 4976]

No seriously though, what's the justification for firing Fries? I don't get it.

 

[newmoneytrash]

I can't help but laugh at this.

It's like you believe the only choices she had were to reply as she did, or accept that she was wrong.

She could have ignored his comments. She could have politely disagreed. She could have taken his criticism to be genuine, and explained why she thought Deroir was wrong.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, or she could have just dismissed his comments while highlighting how people continually feel the need to tell her how her job works, which is an equally valid response, and the one she chose

 

[Dennis8K]

Are people really so clueless that they don't understand that in the given situation both Microsoft and Adam Orth both had a clear interest that he "resign" rather than be fired?

Looked better for both parties. This is how these things work in the real world.

 

[ElectronicOldMen]

No seriously though, what's the justification for firing Fries? I don't get it.

Click to shrink...

he's an 'enemy of the community' my dude

 

[Gasoline]

No seriously though, what's the justification for firing Fries? I don't get it.

Click to shrink...

ArenaNet wants their employees to live in perpetual fear so they don't stand up for each other when someone gets harassed

 

[GlitchyDegree]

The way ArenaNet has handled this situation is truly Sad. Price was being a ass but neither her nor Fries deserved to be fired for what she did. It also sucks that misogynynistic assholes are going to use her firing as a win and as a reason to try to get more women in the industry fired.

 

[Silky]

"telling games writer how to do games writing" definitely isnt condescending at all apparently

Deroir's comments may have not been framed as negative or whatever but they sure as hell wasn't necessary, stop dumping your low rent games ideas on random people involved in the development process. Use forums like literally everyone else

 

[Deleted member 2620]

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

Click to shrink...

wanted to add a few bullet points here:

Is a laser-tight focus on Price's behavior above Fries warranted? Absolutely.
Is it a good thing to take for granted that corporations can disenfranchise an employee over social media postings? Hell yes dude.
Is it hypocritical to be glad that a white supremacist gets fired yet upset when it happens to Price for a comparatively microscopic transgression? Extremely.

 

[Super Corpse Soldier]

This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.

She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.

Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.

You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.

Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.

But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.

Click to shrink...

This is an excellent post. Sums up my feelings as well.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

he's an 'enemy of the community' my dude

Click to shrink...

ArenaNet wants their employees to live in perpetual fear so they don't stand up for each other when someone gets harassed

Click to shrink...

Figures. ArenaNet are a bunch of cowards.

 

[newmoneytrash]

wanted to add a few bullet points here:

Is a laser-tight focus on Price's behavior above Fries warranted? Absolutely.
Is it a good thing to take for granted that corporations can disenfranchise an employee over social media postings? Hell yes dude.
Is it hypocritical to be glad that a white supremacist gets fired yet upset when it happens to Price for a drastically different transgression? Extremely.

Click to shrink...

hahahaha

 

[Dennis8K]

"telling games writer how to do games writing" definitely isnt condescending at all apparently

Click to shrink...

ResetEra tells developers how to "fix" their games ALL the time.

That is what a videogame discussion forum is for.

 

[QueenPriscilla]

We keep lowering the goal post of what mansplaining is. Its crazy.

I fully support women like Price who are well on their way to smash the patriarchy.

Time to be on the right side of herstory.

 

[Thorn]

"telling games writer how to do games writing" definitely isnt condescending at all apparently

Deroir's comments may have not been framed as negative or whatever but they sure as hell wasn't necessary, stop dumping your low rent games ideas on random people involved in the development process. Use forums like literally everyone else

Click to shrink...

This was on a public forum literally right after a public AMA.

All I'm hearing is never disagree with a developer.

 

[a stray cat]

Yeah, or she could have just dismissed his comments while highlighting how people continually feel the need to tell her how her job works, which is an equally valid response, and the one she chose

Click to shrink...

She could have done what you said, but she didn't do that either.

She chose to make it about her being a female game developer and THAT's why people needed to continually tell her how her job works. Then she went on to insult Deroir. Then she went on to say that she doesn't have to play nice on Twitter and she doesn't have to like her customers. All while wearing the hat of an ANet employee.

Don't pretend all she did was say that she was tired of receiving unwarranted and unasked-for criticism.