You should probably think about this whole situation more. A video game developer ain't a register clerk at Macy's.
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The controversial ArenaNet firings of Guild Wars 2 writers (READ OP)
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You should probably think about this whole situation more. A video game developer ain't a register clerk at Macy's.
You get to decide what's firable? This is not the first nor the last time an employee will be fired over social media, man or woman.This isn't new. Calling a user a "rando asshat" is definitely within the scope of things you could expect to get fired for saying. Sometimes reading this thread I feel like almost everyone arguing otherwise has ever actually worked in any professional environment. This does not have to be explicitly stated or written in an employee handbook to be obvious.
Nah dude would get fired (like he did here) and there would be no thread because no one would care (like no one cares about him here other than those begging the question)
Sure. Or at the least, if fired, I'd say it was their fault. Not every company has the same policy.
Kamiya's whole Twitter persona is acting like an asshole. It's expected because he has never shied away from it and the company that he works for obviously does not give a shit about his engagement with fans as long as he keeps the insults to the level of low quality shit posting. If Kamiya called a fan a racial slur for example his ass would be fired. There are levels. The real issue with Kamiya is why people don't feel some type of way about his antics but do about this.
If you think that businesses are obligated to serve everyone at all times uncritically then I'd love to hear your explanation
Except for the fact GG harassed her.
She felt he was mansplaining her, and then she made a comment about it and how usual is in the industry.
How's that not OK?
1. Price is kind of an asshole at times and quote tweeting someone negatively when you have 12k followers is a kind of a dick move.
2. Most of the people that wanted Price fired are total assholes that don't care about someone being an asshole
3. ANet should have warned Price instead of firing her, this doesn't seem like a fireable on first offense thing.
4. Treating Twitter as a private message system like Discord or Slack instead of a very public forum is something that people should stop doing.
2. Most of the people that wanted Price fired are total assholes that don't care about someone being an asshole
3. ANet should have warned Price instead of firing her, this doesn't seem like a fireable on first offense thing.
4. Treating Twitter as a private message system like Discord or Slack instead of a very public forum is something that people should stop doing.
The fact that the devs set expectations that their employees don't have to worry about being punished for speaking out like this means that it doesn't matter if an employee insulted a customer.
The difference he's talking about is that no white dude developer would have a hate mob demanding his firing after a benign comment
I don't have a lot to say about the firing that hasn't been said. I feel for Price and Fries. I think assuming they were good employees otherwise, Price should've probably received a private reprimand, and maybe Anet should've apologized to Deroir. Perhaps also privately. Deroir and his initial responses are what I'm most fuzzy about. I'm really conflicted on whether or not that is mansplaining, and the narrative definitively calling it that bothers me. I have a problem with myself being condescending to people in general, and I'm not always great at writing and reading tone in online communication. On one hand, I can kind of see how what he said is mansplaining, and on the other while Price may have not posted what she did inviting a community discussion, I don't think it's unusual to see it as that type of thing. I guess I also don't have a great idea of what the unwritten rules of Twitter might be.
Kamiya, in addition to being Kamiya's boss, responds normally to people who actually @ him with praise and doesn't strong people up as hidden bigots. Most of the insults are responses to insults or people purposely asking him about shit he says not to (or in long English, but that's another story)
Is following kamiya even still popular
Is following kamiya even still popular
Why did she lash out at that guy though, nothing he wrote was inflammatory or sexist, and it certainly didnt seem like mansplaining or anything. Just someone who knows his stuff and is a fan of the game striking up conversation. Look there are sexist shitty people in this industry whom that type of response might be appropriate for, this guy didnt seem like one of them. Should she have been fired? No, in that case people like kamiya should also be fired.
Regardless of gender, I would make sure my employer is cool with my saying whatever to whomever on Twitter about my work at the company.
They guy who got fired was fired in response to Price's firing. It didn't happen in a vacuum
If guys being rude to customers was treated the same way as this we'd have a thread once a fuckin week
Even if there's a TLDR post it would still be way too long.
I suggest just search it on YouTube.
Well, I personally do think developers serve the people who buy their games. I also think most videogames are entertainment and not art, but that's an entirely different (and probably more complicated) argument. I also think developers should also serve their employers, and what happened definitely didn't benefit them. It didn't benefit anyone.
That said, I do agree they don't owe anything to people who are being assholes, especially if they didn't spend money on the game.
I don't think it's going to have the same punchline that one did though
there it is again, that treasured pearl of wisdom:
｡･:*:･ﾟ★ "it is what it is"
This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.
She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.
Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.
You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.
Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.
But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.
She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.
Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.
You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.
Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.
But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.
If the dev worked for someone else and not only insulted them but called them a bigot and the person was a partner with his employer then yeah
Knock it off. I'm allowed to give my opinion. ArenaNet is in the wrong for firing her.
Yeah I was active in the Diablo forums (and playing the game) when it went down, got to report few death threats during that time. I still remember those comments almost word for word, since I was bit shocked how people think it's okay to speak like that about game devs (beheading, driving over with a car) and even do it so publicly. And I've tried to call out people here and in GAF for their attitude and comments against Cliff and BossKey, but I felt pretty fucking alone in that. Also I mentioned earlier how reading GAF made the creative director of Rime cry and he didn't even have any abrasive social media history, the game wasn't even out yet but people were incredibly cruel towards their team. Gamers can be really toxic and hostile which is a problem, as is misogyny in gaming and otherwise.
As unfair as it may be, Kamiya is simply too high up in the food chain to be let go easily. Especially not in Japan where these things are handled quite differently, so the whole comparison doesn't work
Like do people truly and sincerely think that she was fired simply over word choice with "asshat" in the direction of a fan? Come on, now...
i dont think what Kamiya is doing is justifiable either. but as you said, kamiya is essentially kamiya's boss, and thats the main difference.
User Banned (1 Day): Spamming
Peter Fries.
I'm just going to do this to every post coming in not engaging with anything that was said and pretending how their hottake of this being so justified cause "both sides or similar". Cause that's the level of answers that are deserved.
At mods: I'm totally fine getting a temp for this.
Sure, agree to disagree on whether they are in the wrong. With that said, ArenaNet is indisputably entirely within their rights, and within general industry norms for firing people over acting out on social media, especially as it refers to insulting others publicly.
do you think that someone who works on a movie is beholden to serve anyone who watches their movie? are the readers of a book 'customers' of the author, and thus should the author always defer to the wills and opinions of their readers? is a painter a 'customer' of anyone who goes to their exhibition?
that's not, and will never be, how the interaction between the artist and consumer of art works
I got blocked by him after saying "Hey Kamiya, Bayonetta was great!" :(
This is some hot bullshit. I've been using Twitter for almost a decade now and I must have missed it becoming some sensitive realm of delicate etiquette? Is this part of the whole "don't @ me" thing?
All comments are open for reply. That's the whole point of the damn platform.
It really is not. Twitter does not have etiquette and the platform is designed for engagement. This comes with the territory of having a public account. You make your account public, you gather a large following and you get to enjoy all the things Twitter does for your brand and your reach to other people. You in the same turn do not get to pretend that a very fundamental part of the platform from the jump has boundaries and it's your private place when you want it to be.
It doesn't work like that. It's burying your head in the sand to think otherwise.
Wasn't there some mother who got fired from her job as a real estate or something because her child called lil...something was acting a certain way on social media?
It escapes me, but this stuff happens. Social media is nuts.
This thread is nuts too
It escapes me, but this stuff happens. Social media is nuts.
This thread is nuts too
I understand why it's happening. I don't understand why people are making goofy threads or praising it online, then turning around and talking about how it's very important you treat all your customers with the utmost respect. I have no problems with Kamiya being an asshat to fans on Twitter. I also have no issue with Price doing what she did or Cliffy B owning folks on Twitter, as long as none of it denigrates into hate speech or harassment.
It's good to know a dude a half a decade ago was the last white dude employed at a game studio to act in any way shady.
Adam Orth was years ago in the wake of one of the most unpopular gaming decisions ever. And he wasn't even fired inmmediatly (he actually resigned) even after gainning way more gaming press traction that this stupid incident that was a fucking fart in the middle of the Sahara desert.
People just retreat to the defensible constantly. Oh, he's high on the company food chain. He can't be fired. Please don't notice that I'm criticizing a woman for being rude defending her existence as a female game developer while I giggle at a man being even more rude for literal nonsense reasons.
It is the same tactics used abd it's absolutely deplorable how the industry and media threw her under the bus (and still does)
Sexist
The Rapp thing was even worse because she never even did anything, just GG digging in and getting to NOA puritans
That was hardcore bullshit
So because someone is unpopular with a fringe radical group of Nazis means that anything they do shouldn't be acted on? Dude, GG is doing the same thing Trump did with those kids stuck in a cave with their coach. Do nothing then bandwagon on after the fact like it was all their doing. This is right wing rhetoric 101. I hate that GG is piling on but I still won't crucify AN for doing what they had to do after a developer insulted one of their partners who drives game interest and revenue.
That's moving the goal posts. You said no white male and I gave you one