You should probably think about this whole situation more. A video game developer ain't a register clerk at Macy's.
Peter FriesThere's also the fact that Price used sexims as a shield to deflect the criticism that she was getting from the Guild wars 2 community for her tweets when her being a woman had nothing with it. That is not okay.
You get to decide what's firable? This is not the first nor the last time an employee will be fired over social media, man or woman.This isn't new. Calling a user a "rando asshat" is definitely within the scope of things you could expect to get fired for saying. Sometimes reading this thread I feel like almost everyone arguing otherwise has ever actually worked in any professional environment. This does not have to be explicitly stated or written in an employee handbook to be obvious.What she did was not worth firing over. They caved to mob pressure. If she had set fire to the office we wouldn't be talking about this. Well I guess we would, but not for the same reasons.
Like do people truly and sincerely think that if a dude dev on twitter replied to someone calling them an asshat that they would get fired? Do they think that it would even gain enough tractaion to warrant a thread here?
Like do people truly and sincerely think that if a dude dev on twitter replied to someone calling them an asshat that they would get fired? Do they think that it would even gain enough tractaion to warrant a thread here?
Peter Fries.You get to decide what's firable? This is not the first nor the last time an employee will be fired over social media, man or woman.This isn't new. Calling a user a "rando asshat" is definitely within the scope of things you could expect to get fired for saying. Sometimes reading this thread I feel like nobody has ever actually worked in any professional environment. This does not have to be explicitly stated or written in an employee handbook to be obvious.
If you think that businesses are obligated to serve everyone at all times uncritically then I'd love to hear your explanation
There's also the fact that Price used sexims as a shield to deflect the criticism that she was getting from the Guild wars 2 community for her tweets when her being a woman had nothing with it. That is not okay.
Sure. Or at the least, if fired, I'd say it was their fault. Not every company has the same policy.
So, in your view, what should a female game developer on Twitter do if she wants to talk about her work in one of the places where many game devs talk about her work in a way that will allow it to be interacted with by people she trusts and looks up too, while not getting spammed with helpful messages about how to do her job?
They guy who got fired was fired in response to Price's firing. It didn't happen in a vacuumNah dude would get fire (like he did here) and there would be no thread because no one would care (like no one cares about him here other than those begging the question)
Can someone point me to a TLDR post here describing what happened?
Well, I personally do think developers serve the people who buy their games. I also think most videogames are entertainment and not art, but that's an entirely different (and probably more complicated) argument. I also think developers should also serve their employers, and what happened definitely didn't benefit them. It didn't benefit anyone.developer's don't fucking 'serve' the people who buy their games. jesus christ. they don't, and should not, and to suggest otherwise says something PROFOUNDLY fucking depressing about the medium as an art form.
they owe NOTHING to people who are being assholes to them, whether they spend money on the game they helped make or not.
I don't think it's going to have the same punchline that one did though
there it is again, that treasured pearl of wisdom:
Like do people truly and sincerely think that if a dude dev on twitter replied to someone calling them an asshat that they would get fired? Do they think that it would even gain enough tractaion to warrant a thread here?
Yeah I was active in the Diablo forums (and playing the game) when it went down, got to report few death threats during that time. I still remember those comments almost word for word, since I was bit shocked how people think it's okay to speak like that about game devs (beheading, driving over with a car) and even do it so publicly. And I've tried to call out people here and in GAF for their attitude and comments against Cliff and BossKey, but I felt pretty fucking alone in that. Also I mentioned earlier how reading GAF made the creative director of Rime cry and he didn't even have any abrasive social media history, the game wasn't even out yet but people were incredibly cruel towards their team. Gamers can be really toxic and hostile which is a problem, as is misogyny in gaming and otherwise.Cliffy B routinely had long threads on GAF shitting on him for his social media behaviour. Adam Orth was eviscerated on GAF with memes and celebration of him leaving MS due to anger around his behaviour. Jay Wilson was shit on as well with long topics on GAF about his fuck that guy comments, and while Blizzard didn't fire him he was sent grovelling - https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/6398870250
Kamiya does seem to get away with more, but that's not to say he doesn't get called out by people pissed off at his brash behaviour, but for better or worse he's managed to create a social media character around his banning and snark. Not everyone gets "Hideki Kamiya" level "privilege" on social media.
I'm not linking to any more GAF topics but just search
"Jay Wilson neogaf"
"Cliffy B neogaf"
"Adam Orth neogaf"
in Google and quickly remember history around some other notable mouthpieces who have said things on social media and ended up facing consequences.
It happens and it's not always equal as each employer might act differently and/or your position in the company does sometimes give you a veneer of privilege. I think a thing with Hideki Kamiya is him behaving cool and decent in real life, so his social media account is treated more like an act or overly stimulated behaviour. Like some sort of comedian.
As unfair as it may be, Kamiya is simply too high up in the food chain to be let go easily. Especially not in Japan where these things are handled quite differently, so the whole comparison doesn't workIn other words, "he's wacky and Japanese so it's OK, but she was just being a non-sensical woman who doesn't know what's she's talking about."
Like do people truly and sincerely think that if a dude dev on twitter replied to someone calling them an asshat that they would get fired? Do they think that it would even gain enough tractaion to warrant a thread here?
Kamiya, in addition to being Kamiya's boss, responds normally to people who actually @ him with praise and doesn't strong people up as hidden bigots. Most of the insults are responses to insults or people purposely asking him about shit he says not to (or in long English, but that's another story)
Is following kamiya even still popular
Peter Fries.This situation seems to bring to light the unfortunate snag that we as a community have when it comes to being critical of someone who is "on our side." If she had been exposed as alt-right, no doubt this thread would be full of laughing or reaction gifs, regardless of the validity of her claims. We can't be hypocritical when it comes to situations like this and forming some kind of narrative that Deroir is a bigoted GGer when he's clearly just a fan trying to have a conversation is gross, wrong and the kind of thing you'd expect from GG themselves.
She had just been in a reddit AMA answering questions and comments and her twitter thread was a direct continuation of that. She could have easily ignored the tweet if she didn't want to answer. Deroir's reply was completely polite, and he proposed a solution that he believed would help relieve the issue presented by Price. There is nothing wrong with this, unless we're no longer allowed to make suggestions or criticisms of a game in the presence of one of it's developers? Which is definitely something that happens on Era.
Remember also that the tweet in which Deroir expresses his disappointment that she got angry and apologized was made after she called him an asshat, mansplainer and made him out to be a sexist all because of his suggestion. He definitely wasn't the one who threw a tantrum first.
You can make fun of free speech and applaud all you want when the outcome is in your favor, but acting like Price's behavior was professional and appropriate is not what I'd have expected from Era, given our track record with similar events in the past, and definitely not an ethical response or the truth.
Was Price's behavior, considering she clearly listed her affiliation with ArenaNet on her twitter, appropriate? No.
Did she deserve to have rabid GGers sicced on her? No.
Should she have been fired for this? Debatable. We all know only bad things happen when you use your affiliate twitter account to express your personal opinions in an unprofessional manner.
Did ArenaNet unceremoniously throw her to the wolves after firing her? Absolutely.
Does Deroir deserve to be treated like a terrible individual in this thread? Absolutely not. And if that's what is required to form some kind of defense for Price, then it's time to reevaluate your position.
But acting like her being fired is any sort of surprise after what happened, especially since we're so familiar with it on this forum, and holding the indefensible position that her twitter account should be a safe space for any kind of behavior despite us literally laughing at the prospect until now, shows a really skewed and hypocritical side to our frame of mind as well as our twisted sense of justice.
Can someone point me to a TLDR post here describing what happened?
The difference he's talking about is that no white dude developer would have a hate mob demanding his firing after a benign comment
Sure, agree to disagree on whether they are in the wrong. With that said, ArenaNet is indisputably entirely within their rights, and within general industry norms for firing people over acting out on social media, especially as it refers to insulting others publicly.Knock it off. I'm allowed to give my opinion. ArenaNet is in the wrong for firing her.
do you think that someone who works on a movie is beholden to serve anyone who watches their movie? are the readers of a book 'customers' of the author, and thus should the author always defer to the wills and opinions of their readers? is a painter a 'customer' of anyone who goes to their exhibition?
Kamiya, in addition to being Kamiya's boss, responds normally to people who actually @ him with praise and doesn't strong people up as hidden bigots.
Sure, agree to disagree on whether they are in the wrong. With that said, ArenaNet is indisputably entirely within their rights, and within general industry norms for firing people over acting out on social media, especially as it refers to insulting others publicly.
That's an oversimplification of the platform and the situation. Just because you can reply to something doesn't mean it's always appropriate or wanted. Twitter users and gamers are dense when it comes to social intelligence and etiquette. Telling someone to buzz off when they've overreached is not a valid reason to get fired.
That's an oversimplification of the platform and the situation.
As unfair as it may be, Kamiya is simply too high up in the food chain to be let go easily. Especially not in Japan where these things are handled quite differently, so the whole comparison doesn't work
A bigot?If the dev worked for someone else and not only insulted them but called them a bigot and the person was a partner with his employer then yeah
That's not at all my point. They could have been looking over her shoulder as she posted the tweet and then fired her, they still were caving to hate mob pressure that had existed LONG BEFORE this incident.
Adam Orth was years ago in the wake of one of the most unpopular gaming decisions ever. And he wasn't even fired inmmediatly (he actually resigned) even after gainning way more gaming press traction that this stupid incident that was a fucking fart in the middle of the Sahara desert.