No that was specifically about women regretting they had become mothers. Thread was filled with people calling those moms inhuman monsters and other names because they couldn't bear to think that their own mom might have regretted having them
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The Costs of Motherhood Are Rising, and Catching Women Off Guard
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We are infinitely lucky my wife is a nanny and can bring our daughter to work.
Thr family pays her 2 grand a month for it. They got 3 kids. I don't see how I could afford my own wife :p
I can also see why they are so nice to my wife considering they'd probably be paying a lot more for the three kids in daycare.
Thr family pays her 2 grand a month for it. They got 3 kids. I don't see how I could afford my own wife :p
I can also see why they are so nice to my wife considering they'd probably be paying a lot more for the three kids in daycare.
Nannies do a ton more than daycare facilities, plus 3 kids for 2k Nanny is actually a good deal.
" wouldn't have kids if they could do it all over again", does that not imply regret?
The problems stem way earlier than that. It's the early years that kills everything.
I know i'm just saying it was specifically about moms; I think that's inportant. But I'm glad you did bring it up tho and it's telling everyone's ignoring ur post
Seriously, my coworker is thinking of going in with another parent, so just two kids, and I think 2k would be about her half of the total.
My wife became a stay at home mom and it solves so many problems. The missing salary is almost entirely made up by lack of daily childcare, gas, lunch, and clothing expenses. That's just the financial consequences without considering the stability and better environment our kids are raised in. My wife loves it, but it's gotta be rough for two married people who are very ambitious in their careers.
Look for Hui groups on Yahoo. We signed up for these and they've been a great resource. You'll find specific ones for geographic areas and when your kid is born (e.g. North Brooklyn spring parents) so that you can
I think most ignored it because that thread I think most people were 'upset' about the fact that some moms we're telling their own kids about regretting having them.
In my circle of friends almost all women who decided to have children work part-time now. The few who don't are perpetually stressed and overworked. One of my closest friends has a PHD and she now works at a small business part time because her former employer made it clear they would not cater to her needs as a mother like getting more unpaid sick days in case her child gets sick.
I decided not to have children for the sake of my career.
I decided not to have children for the sake of my career.
Yeah, it is. She cleans and takes the kids for outings. Still. Point is I couldn't afford my wife ;p
Thats my wife. When her maternity leave ran out she decided she wanted to stay home with the baby instead.
Oh believe me there's still plenty of Sherie-Down-The-Streets out there, it's one of the easiest things for a stay-at-home mom to do and make good money. Just take on 4-5 other kids during the day for 300 a month. There's at least 3 women in my neighborhood who offer child care and they're always posting on Next Door and stuff advertising that they have openings.
And she'll be able to start doing stuff part time once your kid(s) are going to school full time every day.
4-5 is very different to 20 and even that is a lot for one person to look after depending on the age of the children.
Kills what?
Very easily. I've seen $2000 prices in some in demand areas
Capitalism and consumerism have done a great job of convincing us our career is paramount to our family or the people around us.
The OP alluded to a dual income household. Imo the choice to live to the limit of both incomes creates the situation your talking about. But it is a choice not a guarantee. The onus is on the family having children and "giving the kids the life they want" is unique to each which is where sacrifice comes in.
100%. A great many (most?) people live well beyond those limits, too.
I remember watching a lecture Elizabeth Warren gave before she went into politics and she was talking about (among various things) this subject. She talked about how families used to rely on just one income, almost always the father, which at the time was sufficient (funny to think nowadays eh?), while the wife would be a stay at home mom. If something were to happen to the income that the father was bringing in (loss of job, injury/sickness) the wife could pick up the slack by going to work and bringing in income herself. Nowadays with families relying on two incomes, if one source of income is lost they're fucked.
OP
OP
She wrote the book on it. Literally.
https://www.amazon.com/Two-Income-Trap-Middle-Class-Parents-Going/dp/0465090907
Yeah, at my work many of the females (lol) have recently had babies, and they seem pretty stressed out. The cultural demands of being the primary caregiver don't really go away if you have a job. I mean sure their dads aren't exactly deadbeats, but the brunt seems to fall to Mom pretty often. My mom was a nurse and she stopped working after me and my sister were born. And daycare, oof. My wife has expressed some interest in going back to work (right now she works super flexible side jobs on and off), but if you're not pulling in pretty good money it's absolutely not worth it to work just so you give most of it to some asshole watching your kid.
Life. It's tough.
Life. It's tough.
Laws regarding max # of children that a given teacher can be watching. In oregon it's 4 to a teacher for 8wk-2yr, after that it's 8 or 10 to a child. Where we're going the rates are $1250/mo for infants and $1050/mo for toddlers, yet teachers are making minimum wage or barely above. It's by no means a super profitable venture -- if it was, there would be more competition for it. As it stands most places you damn well better run to find a daycare center when you find out you're preggo, we did that and still got super lucky to have someone accept our daughter right as wife's maternal leave expired.
Its a choice but at the same time it isnt. Society has moved beyond the single income family for everyone except the well off. Purchasing a home on a single income means you arent buying in a good neighborhood and you are sending your kids to a bad school. The 200k to 300k house has completely dissappeared in my area. Homes are made for people on the polar opposite ends of the spectrum with the true middle class being priced out even with two incomes.
I got news for you, it's almost double that. We're going to pay $1650 for full time care.
OP
OP
As the primary source of income in a single income household I am slightly biased.
The move to dual incomes as standard has exacerbated the problem as companies increased prices and stretched the buying power of an average family. I don't blame them; they saw an opportunity to charge more and people went along with it.
In addition, house prices are soaring around me as well (Seattle area) which makes it increasingly difficult to find good housing.
Regardless of all the surrounding factors it is still my responsibility to provide for my family in the best ways possible. Maybe that means I don't have the nicest car or receive less amazon packages; but overall what it means is that my children are taken care of and cared for by my spouse who desired the ability to stay home with them while they are young. As they get older she will start working again because it would be financially beneficial to do so.
That's not to say that corporations can't help. My initial post was that companies should, and do, provide child care on site for working professionals. This would benefit every family; married, divorced, single etc, and positively grow the workforce.
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I think a lot of it is the stigma now that being a stay at home Mom brings. As if it's a bad thing to be a caretaker of your children. I'd love to be a stay at home dad. Most days you just want to spend time with your children not earn some street cred badge by being a workaholic.
The case where a father murdered his wife and kids and the news came out stating they were in 70k debt, husband and wife combined to bring in 90k. But their mortgage and car payments we're 4,000$+ a month
No, Europe. I currently live in Austria and have lived in Germany and France before.
The friend I wrote about lives in Germany. Daycare is supposed to be guaranteed there but in many cases you won't be able to get your child into daycare even if you put them on the waiting list before they are born. Another issue is that many daycare facilities are lacking in quality. Too many children in a group and too few educators since it is not a desirable job due to the low salary.
My case is a bit different. I chose not to have children because I love my job and want to keep doing what I do. I am a trauma surgeon and go abroad with MSF once a year. That is not possible with children.
I won't be surprised if more and more women, including the next generation will decide to not have children and focus on their careers. This is currently happening in places such as Japan and South Korea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmwfNdUbd4c
Videos like this demonstrates just that. I think young women are still pressured to start a family, while young men are less burdened with the same expectations. Financially the cost of raising children has increased to a point as well. Lastly women are actually working more than their husbands, mainly because their husbands aren't taking up housework as much.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/...me-but-not-as-much-as-they-think-they-do.html
The chart here also shows that while women are doing less housework, they are actually doing more childcare
than a few decades ago.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/06/13/fathers-day-facts/
In the future if women are more focused on their careers more and more young people will likely opt out on raising a kid unless legislation is passed to ease the burden of child raising free tuition, paid leave, and affordable daycare will definitely help with that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmwfNdUbd4c
Videos like this demonstrates just that. I think young women are still pressured to start a family, while young men are less burdened with the same expectations. Financially the cost of raising children has increased to a point as well. Lastly women are actually working more than their husbands, mainly because their husbands aren't taking up housework as much.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/...me-but-not-as-much-as-they-think-they-do.html
The chart here also shows that while women are doing less housework, they are actually doing more childcare
than a few decades ago.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/06/13/fathers-day-facts/
In the future if women are more focused on their careers more and more young people will likely opt out on raising a kid unless legislation is passed to ease the burden of child raising free tuition, paid leave, and affordable daycare will definitely help with that.
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yea, fuck that. Sounds like a shitty job, with shitty management and or ownership.
If you require your workers work 60+ hours a week to get shit done, your doing something wrong, going to burn out your staff and have higher turnover for it.
I won't be surprised if more and more women, including the next generation will decide to not have children and focus on their careers. This is currently happening in places such as Japan and South Korea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmwfNdUbd4c
Videos like this demonstrates just that. I think young women are still pressured to start a family, while young men are less burdened with the same expectations. Financially the cost of raising children has increased to a point as well. Lastly women are actually working more than their husbands, mainly because their husbands aren't taking up housework as much.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/...me-but-not-as-much-as-they-think-they-do.html
The chart here also shows that while women are doing less housework, they are actually doing more childcare
than a few decades ago.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/06/13/fathers-day-facts/
In the future if women are more focused on their careers more and more young people will likely opt out on raising a kid unless legislation is passed to ease the burden of child raising free tuition, paid leave, and affordable daycare will definitely help with that.
Nice to see dads stepping up as well, obviously not as much as moms.
I've worked in fast food since 2008. A substantial portion of my coworkers are parents -- often single parents, usually single mothers. They're all struggling to what I'd consider an extreme degree. Several had to quit their jobs because the costs of hiring a babysitter or daycare for their child while at work outstripped the entirety of their paychecks -- why go to a job to earn $8 an hour, when the cheapest trustworthy babysitter costs $10?
One result of this is that it's not uncommon for desperate parents to bring their kids to work. We collectively as a team handle our professional duties as well as keep an eye out on little Johnny or Susie playing in the break room...while understanding that it's against company policy, and we could be reprimanded or dismissed for supporting our teammates' struggles in this regard. There's no one to help us but each other and we risk our livelihoods in the process.
I think if I were to relate some of the uglier stories of parents I've worked with over the years, many people would wonder if I was describing a fictional dystopia, not the United States. On two separate occasions, a GM of a Taco Bell threatened different parents with termination if they wouldn't abandon their young children at home to come to work instead. "The babysitter isn't there yet? That's not my problem. You're supposed to be here. Just lock her in the bedroom and leave the key under the doormat for the sitter. If you're not on your way here in five minutes, don't expect to have a job anymore." For reference, the children in question in these incidents ranged from 4-6 years old.
I'm really tired of hearing the mothers and fathers I work with fantasizing about not waking up in the morning because they can't see any way out or any way to keep going. We need living wages, sensible employment reforms, and robust parental supports badly.
One result of this is that it's not uncommon for desperate parents to bring their kids to work. We collectively as a team handle our professional duties as well as keep an eye out on little Johnny or Susie playing in the break room...while understanding that it's against company policy, and we could be reprimanded or dismissed for supporting our teammates' struggles in this regard. There's no one to help us but each other and we risk our livelihoods in the process.
I think if I were to relate some of the uglier stories of parents I've worked with over the years, many people would wonder if I was describing a fictional dystopia, not the United States. On two separate occasions, a GM of a Taco Bell threatened different parents with termination if they wouldn't abandon their young children at home to come to work instead. "The babysitter isn't there yet? That's not my problem. You're supposed to be here. Just lock her in the bedroom and leave the key under the doormat for the sitter. If you're not on your way here in five minutes, don't expect to have a job anymore." For reference, the children in question in these incidents ranged from 4-6 years old.
I'm really tired of hearing the mothers and fathers I work with fantasizing about not waking up in the morning because they can't see any way out or any way to keep going. We need living wages, sensible employment reforms, and robust parental supports badly.
So, you either spend tons of money on daycare, or risk fucking up your career by being a stay at home mom.
I've seen close female family members and friends that are quite bitter with the choice of being a stay at home mom. Sure, they didn't pay, but for some getting back into the workforce was impossible or very hard. One was left in a very bad position when her husband divorced her.
Unless I know I can get a lot of help from my mother or my child's parental grandparents, I'm not having a kid. I'm putting my career first, and I couldn't ask any partner to sacrifice his career if I'm not willing to do the same. So, nop.
I've seen close female family members and friends that are quite bitter with the choice of being a stay at home mom. Sure, they didn't pay, but for some getting back into the workforce was impossible or very hard. One was left in a very bad position when her husband divorced her.
Unless I know I can get a lot of help from my mother or my child's parental grandparents, I'm not having a kid. I'm putting my career first, and I couldn't ask any partner to sacrifice his career if I'm not willing to do the same. So, nop.
When we had our son, my wife had to make a big decision...her salary was exactly the cost of putting our son in full-time preschool, a total break-even proposition.
She ended up making the decision to leave her career behind to enter a 4 year medical school program so that we could ultimately have more income and more free time for the whole family. It was a hard decision and we were very lucky that I have a good enough job to keep the family afloat for those 4 years.
I have other friends who are keeping jobs they aren't happy with because it allows them to work from home and stay with the kids, etc. It's a very real point of discussion among my parent friends.
I simply can't imagine being in a minimum wage scenario and trying to make those decisions.
She ended up making the decision to leave her career behind to enter a 4 year medical school program so that we could ultimately have more income and more free time for the whole family. It was a hard decision and we were very lucky that I have a good enough job to keep the family afloat for those 4 years.
I have other friends who are keeping jobs they aren't happy with because it allows them to work from home and stay with the kids, etc. It's a very real point of discussion among my parent friends.
I simply can't imagine being in a minimum wage scenario and trying to make those decisions.
yeeeeeah. I'm looking for a job and I'm getting shit from people for not applying to a certain company for a certain position where I've heard they're pushing people in that position to work 60-65 hours a week every week. Fuck that, that's perverse. This should not be normalized.
See my post above. It's hellish. Most of the parents I work with are struggling hard with suicide and addiction, not because they want to die or be on drugs, but because everything is so god damn hopeless.
My wife struggles with her decision to stay at home often .
I don't think she regrets her choice but it's a huge sacrifice no one else has to make. She had some (now former) friends rub it in how great their career is and how glad they are they didn't have kids.
Its a shit feeling watching her go through with it .
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Yep, do not see myself having children, be them biological or adopted. I am putting my career ambitions first and do not want to be stuck progression wise.
My mom was lucky that my grandparents were retired when she divorced my father so they took care of me and my sister. When we moved to NC though, she did look into a daycare, but the cost for two kids with her earnings and what little child support she got kept her from enrolling us.
My mom was lucky that my grandparents were retired when she divorced my father so they took care of me and my sister. When we moved to NC though, she did look into a daycare, but the cost for two kids with her earnings and what little child support she got kept her from enrolling us.
The lack of any help for families is why white deaths outnumber white births in the US. But you'll never hear a peep about that from the misogynistic assholes on the right. Good luck promoting white supremacy if the majority of your women are too overworked and underpaid to have children.
They are pricing the ability to have children out of the reach of the average American. It's a disgrace.
As a government employee, I have lots of time off, and I can flex my schedule, work from home, or whatever. Plus there's a big age gap between my youngest child and my oldest two, so they help out with their younger sibling. Daycare cost my wife about half of her pay for three years but once our youngest hit kindergarten that ended. Between my flexible schedule and my teenagers we have made our family work. So I count myself fortunate. I've got coworkers who are still paying out over $1k/month for daycare for one kid, or $2k for two. The economics of that don't really work.
You are right. The numbers just don't add up. In the community that I live in, it's more common for mothers (and even an increasing number of fathers!) to not work and try to put together some combination of public housing (or living with family) + SSI/SSDI + food/utility help + child support. And I'm not demonizing them. It makes perfect sense. They want but can't afford children. When our society has priced the ability to reproduce out of the means of the masses then that's a huge fucking problem.
As a government employee, I have lots of time off, and I can flex my schedule, work from home, or whatever. Plus there's a big age gap between my youngest child and my oldest two, so they help out with their younger sibling. Daycare cost my wife about half of her pay for three years but once our youngest hit kindergarten that ended. Between my flexible schedule and my teenagers we have made our family work. So I count myself fortunate. I've got coworkers who are still paying out over $1k/month for daycare for one kid, or $2k for two. The economics of that don't really work.
You are right. The numbers just don't add up. In the community that I live in, it's more common for mothers (and even an increasing number of fathers!) to not work and try to put together some combination of public housing (or living with family) + SSI/SSDI + food/utility help + child support. And I'm not demonizing them. It makes perfect sense. They want but can't afford children. When our society has priced the ability to reproduce out of the means of the masses then that's a huge fucking problem.
You really need to go into having kids with a plan. Could be financially difficult and a really bad idea unless some other logistics are worked out.
People making fun of stay-at home moms as if it was something inconsequential need to be smacked upside the head.