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The Daily Dot has discovered that the script for Netflix's Evangelion is totally different when compared to the original English release and one scene has people very angry with Netflix for the erasure of a character's queerness in the Netflix translation of Evangelion (SPOILER ALERT FOR POST):




When the seminal mid-'90s anime Neon Genesis Evangelion dropped on Netflix last week, some of the changes to the new translation left longtime fans of the show accusing the show's translator of diminishing the significance of the queer relationship depicted in the show. Now, after revelations about the translator's past work—including opposition to a ban on fictional child pornography—fans are further calling his intentions into question.

When it was announced in late November of 2018 that Evangelion was coming to Netflix, many people were excited to finally have the classic show accessible again. Both a deconstruction of the popular mecha genre and an intense psychological drama, Evangelion's influence on culture is hard to overstate. In spite of this, it hasn't been distributed in English since 2011. Excitement became more cautious as talk began circulating of a new dub that explicitly avoided including any of the original voice actors.

Evangelion became available on Netflix on June 21, with some longtime fans skeptical of how the new dub would live up to the original. Some worries were assuaged: The show still had the iconic original theme, and Casey Mongillo did an excellent job voicing the main character, Shinji Ikari.

But the iconic ending credits song, a cover of "Fly Me to the Moon," was gone. While its absence was felt at the end of the very first episode, there was a different change, near the end of the series, that angered queer fans specifically. The entire show was retranslated for Netflix's new dub, and while some argued the translation is aptly more literal, others said the emotional weight of certain lines was lost.

Dan Kanemitsu, who's credited with the translation for Netflix's version of Evangelion, tweeted he tried his best to be "faithful to the original source material" but also said that "leaving room for interpretation [makes] things exciting." For example, there is an argument to be made that the Japanese word "suki" can be literally translated as "like," although it doesn't accurately reflect the depth of feeling implied by that word.

His defense of a more "literal" translation is under further scrutiny by people who noticed that every instance of "terrorist" was replaced with "leftist" or "left-wing terrorist."

In episode 24, Shinji Ikari, the anxious 14-year-old pilot antagonist, meets Kaworu Nagisa, the mysterious new Eva pilot whose forward nature frequently makes Shinji blush. He's only there for one episode, but he makes an enormous mark on Shinji's psyche. After they take a shower together, Kaworu says in the original English subtitles, "You have my regard." When Shinji is confused, he clarifies by saying "It means I love you." In Netflix's version, he instead says "You're worthy of my grace" and "I'm saying I like you."

As people watched the new dub and discovered changes to the queer context, many longtime fans grew upset. Some turned their anger over what they felt was queer erasure into art, celebrating the relationship or making fun of the trope of poorly veiled queerness.
 

blast0rama

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I understand the concern, but the translator says it's more accurate to be more ambiguous about the relationship.


Being a non-Japanese speaker, I'm inclined to believe those who translate such for a living, versus the original translation from ADV, who – if I recall correctly – were known to take liberties in their translations.

EDIT: Just read the part about the, uh...ickiness of the translator. Yikes. Time to walk my words back... haha
 

Masoyama

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I understand the concern, but the translator says it's more accurate to be more ambiguous about the relationship.


Being a non-Japanese speaker, I'm inclined to believe those who translate such for a living, versus the original translation from ADV, who – if I recall correctly – were known to take liberties in their translations.

The translator does not have a great track record with regards to this kind of stuff

 

Dreamwriter

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Dang, changing that line isn't "erasing the queerness", did that article author watch the rest of the scene and interaction between the characters? At most it's toning it down and making it more ambiguous (which is more accurate to the original Japanese). Did the author just read the overreactions on forums and Reddit?
 
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The translator Netflix hired for Evangelion is coming under scrutiny according to the article:

Adding to growing suspicions about his political leanings, Twitter user @avatarskorra_ on Wednesday pointed out that Kanemitsu is one of the creators behind a self-published manga and accused him of depicting sexualized young females wearing the iron cross, a symbol associated with Nazism. Kanemitsu confirmed to the Daily Dot that he is the creator of an unofficial spinoff of the manga and anime series Strike Witches.

"Strike Witches is a complete fictional world where nations all unit to fight an alien threat," Kanemitsu said. He added the character in the illustration shared to Twitter is wearing the Knight's Cross, a German military symbol, and that "there are no Nazis in the world of Strike Witches."

@avatarskorra_'s tweets also pointed to Kanemitsu's essay in opposition to a 2011 policy implemented in Tokyo that expanded bans on child pornography to include fictionalized works, as well as a campaign to ban fictional graphic depictions of anyone under the age of 18 engaged in sex acts. In the essay, Kanemitsu writes that "widening the definition of child pornography to include fictional material belittles the gravity of real sex abuse." He told the Daily Dot that he advocates for "safeguarding the ability to [discuss] sexuality in fiction helps protect and encourage diversity in fiction."
 

HStallion

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Wasn't this more to do with Khara and possibly even Anno's demands for a literal translation?
 

Masoyama

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You brought this up in the other thread and I still fail to see how it's relevant to this other than involving the same translator

I did not bring it up in a previous thread (as far as I can remember), so I wont be putting words into why someone else did. For me, however, when a guy with extremist views like this tries to argue about the subtleties of language to erase context, they lose me.
 

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I understand the concern, but the translator says it's more accurate to be more ambiguous about the relationship.
As was stated by wiser people than I, "love" could still be ambiguous. Familial love, platonic love, love for a friend, love for a companion... Switching it to "like" is nothing more than downplaying the possibly romantic connotations involved... In that sense it's technically less ambiguous even
 

Kain

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So the guy who gets rid of the gay elements is the same who advocates for underage porn mmmmm
 

Einchy

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I did not bring it up in a previous thread (as far as I can remember), so I wont be putting words into why someone else did. For me, however, when a guy with extremist views like this tries to argue about the subtleties of language to erase context, they lose me.
It's not just him arguing that, though. I had already seen a ton of Japanese speakers say the Netflix translation was more accurate to the original Japanese before I had even seen what the actual translator had said about the subject.

That guy can be the most awful human being ever but it doesn't mean that his translation isn't more accurate to what was originally there.
 

AFI-kun

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The translator does not have a great track record with regards to this kind of stuff



There was also a Twitter thread about the same dude having a lewd loli Nazi OC (spawning off the discussion based on his translation of "sect" being "leftist terrorists"). Thread is gone now though so not sure if that was disputed.
 

Lunar15

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I'm of the opinion that it was always intended to ambiguous but intentionally bisexual - playing off of Shinji's insecurities and making the audience wonder about it. But that's the thing, "Love" already accomplished that, if debates back in the 90's were anything to go by. Changing it to like definitely feels like wanting to downplay that debate and lean towards one side.
 

Blader

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I think the new translation is managed by Khara, not Netflix. I am sure Netflix, for one, did not mandate that "Third Child" become "Third Children."
 
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I did not bring it up in a previous thread (as far as I can remember), so I wont be putting words into why someone else did. For me, however, when a guy with extremist views like this tries to argue about the subtleties of language to erase context, they lose me.

Sorry, someone posted this exact tweet so I erroneously assumed it was you in that case as well.

Regardless, is the point that he's being hypocritical? Because it seems like in both cases he's adhering to the idea of "maintaining" the original Japanese material as closely as possible, which seems pretty consistent with his explanation for why he translated the line the way he did.
 
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This GameSpot article states that this change has people calling it "straight-washing":


5. One scene's gay subtext has been removed


Some fans are especially up in arms about one particular change that's being called "straight-washing." In the original translation, a pivotal scene featured one male character telling another that he is "worthy of love," saying outright, "I love you." In the new version--both out loud and in the subtitles--the character instead says, "You're worthy of my grace," and, "I like you." That's not just awkward--what the hell does "grace" mean in this context?--it totally alters the meaning of the scene.

This may not have been a malicious change--if you go in-depth on the original Japanese, as Reddit user thethirst did, it becomes clear that this is more complicated, due to the ambiguity present in the original Japanese script. The translation most fans are accustomed to used the word "love" to make the scene's subtext explicit, but "The Netflix translation leans into navigating the sort of flirty, wink-wink-nudge-nudge I-like-you-but-you-know-what-like-means-right? that's present in the original script," according to thethirst.

Regardless, the change certainly looks bad, and it's probably not what Netflix wanted people to focus on with this release.
 

TronLight

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Does the censorship affect the english subs too? The fact that the guy was gay was pretty clear to me.

Netflix really fucked up with this series, the italian dub was so bad they removed it today after a ton of people complained, and they're redoing it from scratch.
 

Masoyama

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Why did they need to retranslate it.

Because a bunch of people in charge of the new EVA movies saw a screening where people cheered and laughed at their super serious movie and decided that from now on they had to authorized every single line and reading of their media.
 

Blader

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Why did they need to retranslate it.
Khara has an absolute stranglehold on Eva translations. They forced Funi to redub 3.0 from scratch for reasons that still, afaik, aren't entirely clear. ADV was also known to take certain liberties with their translations back in the day, though iirc that was more prominent on End of Eva than the series itself.
 

Kinthey

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Because a bunch of people in charge of the new EVA movies saw a screening where people cheered and laughed at their super serious movie and decided that from now on they had to authorized every single line and reading of their media.

Wasn't the cheering in response to the translators of 3.0 turning up the innuendo to 11, not leaving any ambiguity as it was originally intended? It's not like they have to approve of that.
 

Garlador

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Does the censorship affect the english subs too? The fact that the guy was gay was pretty clear to me.

Netflix really fucked up with this series, the italian dub was so bad they removed it today after a ton of people complained, and they're redoing it from scratch.
Yeah, it affects the subs too.
 

mute

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Sometimes just because it is more accurate doesn't mean it is the best.

Kaworu's character has been established for a couple decades now.
 

Dascu

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I watched it for the first time these past days, and I did not know about the original script, subtitles or characterization before. But it was still pretty clear that there was a gay romance/relationship/subtext between Kaworu and Shinji. Maybe the new translation made it more ambiguous, but saying that it 'erases the queerness' seems very exaggerated.
 

AFI-kun

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I don't think it's been brought up in this thread yet but the same translator translated the same word (suki) as love in End of Evangelion (under a more general, non-homoerotic pretense).
 

Masoyama

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This has nothing whatsoever to do about the quality/accuracy of the translations. It's about the translator's political beliefs.

The translation is pretty bad overall. It is not a great look to argue that you are changing the words here to clear up the context when there are multiple other examples of bad lines and stiff sounding readings. The translation and the dub both feel like a translation, don`t feel natural.
 

Rune Walsh

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Doesn't anyone get vetted for jobs anymore? A cursory glance at this translator's shitty past should have disqualified him.
 

Finale Fireworker

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A literal translation of anything, outside a strict academic text, is enough to turn me off of it completely. Let alone all the weird decisions made here. I was really looking forward to this and am really upset that it turned out this way. What a let down.
 

SigmasonicX

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I don't think it's been brought up in this thread yet but the same translator translated the same word (suki) as love in End of Evangelion (under a more general, non-homoerotic pretense).
I think this is a better reason to question the way Kaworu's line was translated than ad hominen attacks on the translator (as valid as they may be).

Plus, I don't think Japanese speakers should be the ones to judge whether a particular English term matches the ambiguity they were going for. I believe "love" captures it just fine in this case, especially given Kaworu's nature.
 

TronLight

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Lol, why was it so bad?
The translator is an idiot who think that translating should be done word for word and without adapting the text to different grammar rules and such (for example "berserk" became "fury state" which doesn't make any sense in italian). It was basically the equivalent of a shitty fan-sub. Even the voice actors and the dub director complained about not being able to understand what they were supposed to say.

The guys is notorious for this, he also translated all the Ghibli movies and they're terrible too.
 

Nerokis

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I hate that headline so much.

The translator fucked up (perhaps for nefarious reasons, perhaps not), but those scenes are still unambiguously queer.
 

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The straight washing is so disappointing. I was hesitant about the series coming to Netflix but this seals it for me, I won't be watching it.
 
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The translator is an idiot who think that translating should be done word for word and without adapting the text to different grammar rules and such (for example "berserk" became "fury state" which doesn't make any sense in italian). It was basically the equivalent of a shitty fan-sub. Even the voice actors and the dub director complained about not being able to understand what they were supposed to say.

The guys is notorious for this, he also translated all the Ghibli movies and they're terrible too.

DAMN!!! O.O How much did Netflix pay to have Evangelion retranslated into Italian????
 
Oct 27, 2017
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The translator is an idiot who think that translating should be done word for word and without adapting the text to different grammar rules and such (for example "berserk" became "fury state" which doesn't make any sense in italian).
I'm fairly sure I heard them use "berserk" in English, so I don't think that change has to do with the translator, unless one guy handles it for every language which would be...unusual