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Nov 4, 2018
486
As someone who's been keeping up with the PR surrounding DoA 6, and saw what happened recently, I think it's a safe call to say that whoever has been managing this game's PR has been doing a fucking abysmal job at it.

First off, Dead or Alive as a series has, for the longest time, been a sexy fighter. The series distinguishes itself from other 3D Fighters out there by being sexy.
Secondly, they really need to stop trying to separate sexiness from Dead or Alive. Dead or Alive 5 tried this exact thing and fucking failed and ended up making an assload of fanservice costumes.
Dead or Alive 6 is also trying to do the same thing, and as mentioned before, is failing fantastically to appeal to any market. It's not appealing to people who want a serious fighter without the fanservice because of how fanservice is ingrained in the series' DNA, and it's not appealing to the fanservice fans by compromising on said fanservice. Frankly, I think everyone would be better off if Dead or Alive stopped pretending it'll ever be anything more than what it always has been, especially when Koei Tecmo has a new DoA Extreme game release just around the corner.

The Fighting Game's market is crowded enough as is, so having a dedicated niche within the genre is actually pretty fortunate. If Koei Tecmo wants to make a fighting game that's taken seriously, they need to make a game that isn't called Dead or Alive. What they're doing now is a case of wanting their cake and eating it too.

They want Dead or Alive to be taken seriously but they also want the fans of the series to stick around. Instead of giving everyone options they're compromising on both aspects and failing miserably to do so. They really need to stop trying to make Dead or Alive a fighter that's taken seriously and either just focus on what makes the fans happy, or make a new fighting game that isn't called Dead or Alive.
 
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aSqueakyLime

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,434
England
Don't have much else to say other than I agree. I don't know why Koei are trying to change their plans when iirc the earlier games always did pretty decently?
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
I think it's possible to be both a quality fighting game and a fanservice festival. Aesthetic and gameplay quaity don't impact each other.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
What "compromise"? The entirety of their "compromise" is literally just them saying they're going to tone it down, they're not actually altering their approach in any way and they don't even try to pretend that they're not lying out their asses for PR's sake.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
I'm glad to see it go - the rampant sexualization and objectification of women is a disservice to this hobby.
 

shaneo632

Weekend Planner
Member
Oct 29, 2017
29,008
Wrexham, Wales
Yeah I don't really care for the fan service but I don't think the franchise can ever really be taken seriously, so there's not much point bothering. Stick to what works and keep the current fans happy rather than alienating them entirely for a "broadening" of the IP that probably won't work anyway because many will always see DoA as a "titty fighter."
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,892
Pakistan
If anything, the biggest problem I have with DoA is that the sexiness isn't distributed equally.

I enjoy a fun fighting game with female characters in ludicrously skimpy clothing but it just feels weird if the male characters aren't also in speedos and tight leather pants and cut up tuxedos.
 

IwazaruK7

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,155
. Dead or Alive 5 tried this exact thingand fucking failed and ended up making an assload of fanservice costumes.

You forget that before retreating to DLC machine, DoA5 ended up being best and deepest DoA gameplay-wise, recovering from epic fail which was DoA4. DoA6 seems to be step back again though. Well, in absence of Virtua Fighter 6, we just stick to DoA5LR, then...
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,176
I'm fine with erotica in video games as long as it doesn't feel demeaning. Not just to the female characters, but the player as well - a lot of games feel like they're saying "we think you'll be bored unless the screen has half-naked women on it at almost all times," which makes me feel like they think I'm an idiot.

It's easier said than done, of course. The line between tasteful and exploitative is hair-thin.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
and it's not appealing to the fanservice fans by compromising on said fanservice.
Is DoA6 actually compromising on the fanservice? Because from what I understand, that was purely PR to make the game seem less lascivious than it actually is.
I'm glad to see it go - the rampant sexualization and objectification of women is a disservice to this hobby.
If this is serious, and it's the common argument, but I think the Mortal Kombat series is just as much of a "disservice."
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,213
If anything, the biggest problem I have with DoA is that the sexiness isn't distributed equally.

I enjoy a fun fighting game with female characters in ludicrously skimpy clothing but it just feels weird if the male characters aren't also in speedos and tight leather pants and cut up tuxedos.
Exactly.

I want to see Daddies with their crotches bulging in sight of the camera with cock physics and next generation ball sweat dripping down and staining their undies. You should also be able to hear the sound of their cocks flapping against their legs as they do acrobatic moves.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
Is DoA6 actually compromising on the fanservice? Because from what I understand, that was purely PR to make the game seem less lascivious than it actually is.

If this is serious, and it's the common argument, but I think the Mortal Kombat series is just as much of a "disservice."

Of course it's serious , and I agree with you on MK.
 

IronicSonic

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,639
In the Twitch era, you only need a good streamer to change the perception of given game. I think it's worth to give a try with DOA6 even though I can see how the change of tone can upset long term fans.

To me though, a DOA wothout fan service is always welcome
 

ldcommando

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,480
after the evo stream, people still think doa6 will be toning down objectification? I have a bridge to sell to you guys, pm me.
 

Deleted member 10551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,031
In the Twitch era, you only need a good streamer to change the perception of given game. I think it's worth to give a try with DOA6 even though I can see how the change of tone can upset long term fans.

To me though, a DOA wothout fan service is always welcome

Folks didn't exactly make VF a big thing, and that is a better core game than DOA.
 

applejuice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
416
Tampa, FL
Exactly.

I want to see Daddies with their crotches bulging in sight of the camera with cock physics and next generation ball sweat dripping down and staining their undies. You should also be able to hear the sound of their cocks flapping against their legs as they do acrobatic moves.
I would buy this product.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
This. Tired of all these misogynistic Japanese games like this and Senran Kagura. Doa6 toning down that crap is a yes for me.

They're not toning it down, though. They've made comments to western media outlets that state as much but the game hasn't actually changed one iota.

Any talk about toning it down is done just to placate people who they probably suspect aren't going to play the game and thus won't ever call their bluff.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
They're not toning it down, though. They've made comments to western media outlets that state as much but the game hasn't actually changed one iota.

Any talk about toning it down is done just to placate people who they probably suspect aren't going to play the game and thus won't ever call their bluff.

didn't they rework all the costumes?
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
An attempt at fixing it however small is good. Either they do fix it or do like somebody else said and make male fighters also have the exact same amount of fan service crap as women.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Ehhh, I disagree.
You can do both at the same time.
If anything, the biggest problem I have with DoA is that the sexiness isn't distributed equally.

I enjoy a fun fighting game with female characters in ludicrously skimpy clothing but it just feels weird if the male characters aren't also in speedos and tight leather pants and cut up tuxedos.
True.
Is DoA6 actually compromising on the fanservice? Because from what I understand, that was purely PR to make the game seem less lascivious than it actually is.

If this is serious, and it's the common argument, but I think the Mortal Kombat series is just as much of a "disservice."
Yeah. Even eurogamer made an article and said the fanservice is still very much there, just not on default costumes anymore.

People being surprised at this don't seem to remember the pre-launch period for DOA5.
 

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,233
Why not both? It's not hard really, just have normal default costumes for all characters and then go crazy with DLCs.
 

Rodjer

Self-requested ban.
Member
Jan 28, 2018
4,808
I just saw the Season Pass.

2 characters and 62 COSTUMES.

lmao
 

DimitriLH

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,521
Aguadilla, Puerto Rico
I thought they were doing a decent job promoting it being good on bringing more focus on the gameplay again(twitter page has been giving info on mechanics these past few days).....then the Evo thing happened. Like DoA will always be known for being Sexy, that is never going away, but that Evo announcement turned off quite a few peeps that were regaining interest. Im actually still excited for this one as its looking fantastic, just hope they play it smart with how they handle it after release....
 

lucebuce

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,892
Pakistan
I just saw the Season Pass.

2 characters and 62 COSTUMES.

lmao
39175.jpg
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
Is DoA6 actually compromising on the fanservice? Because from what I understand, that was purely PR to make the game seem less lascivious than it actually is.

If this is serious, and it's the common argument, but I think the Mortal Kombat series is just as much of a "disservice."

Persona 4 is a bigger disservice than any MK game to date, and I'm a big fan of the first three.
 

Yappa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,511
Hamburg/Germany
Dunno, I got the impression that they were serious about the game toning down sexiness.
Did anything happen these past days that contradicted that?
Did they already announce skimpy DLC for the girls?
Personnally, the "fanservice" is the main reason I have been interested in the past, though probably not enough to buy it since I'm not too much a fan of the DOA fighting formula. Which is also why I have yet to play the Senran Kagura games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Dead or Alive 6 is also trying to do the same thing, and as mentioned before, is failing fantastically to appeal to any market. It's not appealing to people who want a serious fighter without the fanservice because of how fanservice is ingrained in the series' DNA, and it's not appealing to the fanservice fans by compromising on said fanservice.

I agree. Its half assed attempted to get rid of sexist designs does absolutely nothing for me when it gets relegated to DLC instead.
 

Temp_User

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,702
DOA could be both a legit and sexy fighter. Its just that when you're in a shared public event like Evo Japan, its probably best to tone-down the sexiness aspect on what is shown in-game (default costumes only) and in marketing(less of the type that explicitly draws the male gaze and more about the technical and gameplay aspect).

KT could feel free to go hogwild on DOA-specific event though.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,108
The game has always been promoted in Japan as a softcore porn game, even to this day. Only here they tried to show a more "serious" aspect of the game.

At least there is some truth on their efforts, the primary costumes definitely are more safe than in previous games, making it a little more e-sports friendly, but KT would have never removed the main thing that sells the game for a lot of people
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,532
If the game contains both normal and fan-service costumes for every character, then it seems people could just use whichever costumes they like, ignore the rest, and everyone can be happy?
 

New Fang

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,542
I'm glad to see it go - the rampant sexualization and objectification of women is a disservice to this hobby.
Are movies with over the top sexualized storylines and characters a disservice to the movie industry?

If there is a difference I'm missing here I'd sincerely appreciate it being explained for me.
 

Leviathan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
I get what you're saying, but I wish it felt like you were leaving more room for the fact that it's also the weightiest, most purposeful fighter out there. It offers a sense of impact with its blows and a respect for more mundane martial arts techniques (over more dramatic superpowers) that its competitors don't. It has really good bones beneath the sexy outer layer.

Whichever direction it goes, I hope and know it has many more great games ahead of it.

Source: Playing DOA and loving it since before I cared whether things were sexy or not.
 

blitzblake

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
3,171
DoA is honestly a relic of a sexist past and if it can't evolve with the changes in how women are represented it need to taken out back and put down.

If they seriously can't work out how to promote the game without jiggling breast then fire those people.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
Are movies with over the top sexualized storylines and characters a disservice to the movie industry?

If there is a difference I'm missing here I'd sincerely appreciate it being explained for me.

When it comes to positive representation of women? More often that not. This is obvious, no?
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
I'm sure plenty of people like DoA for the actual gameplay, and the sexy DLC makes a mountain of cash for those who aren't "pretending" to like the gameplay. I'm not going to call shenanigans on KT's market strategy for this game just yet.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Exactly.

I want to see Daddies with their crotches bulging in sight of the camera with cock physics and next generation ball sweat dripping down and staining their undies. You should also be able to hear the sound of their cocks flapping against their legs as they do acrobatic moves.
That escalated quickly lmao.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,408
That line of marketing actually worked pretty well for the series, go check the DoA6's reveal thread here.