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The Division 2 Is Ditching Steam For The Epic Games Store On PC [See Threadmarks]

Oct 30, 2017
54
I loved the first Division and put over 100h into it. Was considering getting the second near launch, but now I'll wait for bargain bin price. Not being on Steam means the product is worth less to me, so I won't be willing to pay as much.
 
Oct 27, 2017
24
As someone who's recently been enjoying using steam link on my mobile, this trend is not looking good to me as a consumer. I've already run into issues on the epic launcher, like not being able to manually limit the speed of my (free) game download, which caused my video streaming to be unwatchable while it downloaded and used up all my speed. The lack of features compared to steam which i rely on such as user reviews, discussion forums, big picture mode, wish lists, ability to buy steam gift cards, family sharing, as well as the questionable refund policies just further cement my disgust towards this situation. I may not particularly like it, but I can respect it when a publisher chooses to only to release a game on their platform. This however, is something else entirely, with one of the last remaining big publishers left who seemed to play nice with Steam now choosing to not just release on another platform, but to take their game off of Steam entirely for no good reason at all after it was already set to release on Steam.

Again, I wouldn't have a problem with this if Epic were to do like Origin and Uplay and offer their own developed and published games exclusively on the platform, while also selling indie games that are free to be bought elsewhere such as what GoG does. The real benefit to me as a consumer would be if they were to compete with Steam based on the features, the prices, and the user experience that they're able to offer. The dubious thing that Epic is doing is that they're snapping up games that they had no hand in creating, and should therefore have no exclusive claim to. We've never seen Pyre exclusively held ransom on EA's Origin store for example, or Super Meat Boy exclusively sold on the Blizzard store. These publishers have so far stuck to their respective lanes and I can appreciate that, but Epic is trying to change all that, and to me as a consumer it's not something that I can appreciate. They're effectively ensuring that in 2019 I'm going to have to sacrifice so many helpful features I've come to expect and rely on when it comes to the bulk of my PC gaming, and ensure that I'm going to have less options with how I buy my games (steam gift cards, user reviews, wish-lists, download speed limiter), play my games (big picture mode, steam-link, family sharing), and refund my games (something I don't do often, but works perfectly on Steam when I do). This isn't even getting into the whole regional pricing issue which I imagine is a real downer for a lot of other people.

Again, it's not that I have a problem with opening yet another shitty launcher before I play a game. I do that already with all my other launchers for their exclusively published games and I can deal with that. The problem here that is so unprecedented is that I now have to deal with a shitty launcher devoid of features and user friendliness so that I can play 3rd party and indie games that would have previously been released either on Steam, GoG, or CD key sites, effectively leaving me with less choice than ever when it comes to how I buy and play my own games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,070
So we are suppose to give epic the benefit of the doubt for their shitty store that has been around for years? They don't deserve any benefit of the doubt and deserve to be called out for them buying exclusivity.

Epic doesn't need you blindly defending them
Not that i would be against defending Epic but how precisely am i defending Epic?
 
Oct 25, 2017
762
I loved the first Division and put over 100h into it. Was considering getting the second near launch, but now I'll wait for bargain bin price. Not being on Steam means the product is worth less to me, so I won't be willing to pay as much.
Lets say the game did release on Steam... You would STILL have to use the Ubisoft launcher to launch it.

How is it any different? Just buy it on the Ubisoft launcher.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,640
I'm actually really surprised (maybe naively) of the negative sentiment and understanding towards this.

The launcher of the most successful money-printer on PC in 2018 with more than 8million active players in the US alone can now host other games and takes far less of a cut than its direct competitor. Ditching Steam for Epic is a no-brainer for devs/pubs that aren't reliant on Steam's discoverability.

I don't get how this is bad for consumers beyond maybe having to install a new game store on their system - one that currently offers up to 2 free games a month.

Maybe the Epic games launcher also has more outreach in CIS and Asia than Steam does?
Is it too hard to read the thread? Seriously, is it? Open a page, any page, and it will have been answered 5 times already.

Jeez. This forum is a fucking mess.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,120
Aside
Lets say the game did release on Steam... You would STILL have to use the Ubisoft launcher to launch it.

How is it any different? Just buy it on the Ubisoft launcher.
People keep saying this but it’s pretty seamless for steam on recent games. I don’t even see Uplay unless I specifically click on the shortcut anymore. Odyseey just shows a splash screen and starts.
 
Oct 27, 2017
309
Lets say the game did release on Steam... You would STILL have to use the Ubisoft launcher to launch it.

How is it any different? Just buy it on the Ubisoft launcher.
That's kinda the boat I'm in. I always picked up Ubi games on PC directly through Steam instead of a site like Green Man Gaming, even though GMG might have 10-15% off pre-ordering the game, because I was willing to give up the sale for having it in my Steam Library. At the same time, I still had to go through Uplay, so functionally it was just that I wanted to be able to see the game in my library, which is ultimately kinda silly. The same people in my friend's list on steam that i'd play Division 2 with are already on my uplay friend's list, so I'll be just fine. This makes me want to pick the game up on GMG and get the discount, so it kinda works out in my favor.
 
May 5, 2018
64
Is it too hard to read the thread? Seriously, is it? Open a page, any page, and it will have been answered 5 times already.

Jeez. This forum is a fucking mess.
Hey man, cmon - can i not contribute to the conversation and ask questions without reading through every post in the thread?

Sorry if i asked a question or made a point that's already been made - but im not gonna read through every post before trying to join the conversation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
i dont have problem if they are in epic store, my problem is when they choose to make only epic store.
They will never stop using ubi's digital store, my issue is this game was on steam until yesterday and now it's taken off to be exclusive to epic's store in addition, it's pretty shitty.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,244
Watertown, NY
Seriously. I don't understand anyone who won't buy this game because of the launcher lmao. Who cares.
People that care about security? I've used the epic launcher for Unreal tournament, and fortnite. I had it on my system for almost a year, and have had my account hacked almost on a by weekly basis.

Doesn't happen with any of my other accounts like Blizzard, steam, even shitty origin.

Epics security is garbage.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,978
USA USA USA
I'm actually really surprised (maybe naively) of the negative sentiment and understanding towards this.

The launcher of the most successful money-printer on PC in 2018 with more than 8million active players in the US alone can now host other games and takes far less of a cut than its direct competitor. Ditching Steam for Epic is a no-brainer for devs/pubs that aren't reliant on Steam's discoverability.

I don't get how this is bad for consumers beyond maybe having to install a new game store on their system - one that currently offers up to 2 free games a month.

Maybe the Epic games launcher also has more outreach in CIS and Asia than Steam does?
putting it on the epic store makes sense yes

no one gives two shits about that

"ditching" steam for it is what people are just straight confused about

hope the money was worth it i guess ubisoft
 
May 5, 2018
64
putting it on the epic store makes sense yes

no one gives two shits about that

"ditching" steam for it is what people are just straight confused about

hope the money was worth it i guess ubisoft
Yeah, i see that now - dropping an already existing platform is a pretty harsh scenario.

At the end of the day, its all politics and revenue. The shift to Epic store is revenue driven. Steams 30% cut is revenue driven. It's a big cut. Developers have been asking Steam to reevaluate that cut for some time. We're in a world where the AAA pubs don't need Steam to hit decent player numbers anymore.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Not that i would be against defending Epic but how precisely am i defending Epic?
In multiple posts you are pretending that epic will magicly add features when there's little proof of that especially with their store being the way it is for so long and that stuff like epic buying exclusivity on games is a good thing. It's a shitty thing for epic to do.

Yeah, i see that now - dropping an already existing platform is a pretty harsh scenario.

At the end of the day, its all politics and revenue. The shift to Epic store is revenue driven. Steams 30% cut is revenue driven. It's a big cut. Developers have been asking Steam to reevaluate that cut for some time. We're in a world where the AAA pubs don't need Steam to hit decent player numbers.
Possibly but will taking away from a platform help their revenue at all? I would guess they will lose money on this type of decision because of how the epic store is.
 
Oct 27, 2017
309
Valve had cross-platform co-op (PC/PS3) in 2011 with Portal 2.
This fact would mean a lot more if they had done literally ANYTHING to further cross-platform play in the last fucking decade. Yeah, they had it 2011 on one game, and exactly zero games since then have supported it. This is much more a knock against valve than a point in their favor.
 

burnsy

Banned
Member
May 31, 2018
131
At last we don't have to look for game patches on fileplanet anymore ^^




That evidence is posted several times already in this thread. Both Sweeney and the Satisfactory devs admitted it.




Long. They have millions to spend thanks to Fortnite.
That's a good point to be fair!
 
May 5, 2018
64
In multiple posts you are pretending that epic will magicly add features when there's little proof of that especially with their store being the way it is for so long and that stuff like epic buying exclusivity on games is a good thing. It's a shitty thing for epic to do.

Possibly but will taking away from a platform help their revenue at all? I would guess they will lose money on this type of decision because of how the epic store is.
They would have evaluated that they won't lose money from this decision - which is probably why they made it. As long as the player numbers are not -18% less than what they have predicted they would have gotten on steam - then the decision has reaper profit.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
They would have evaluated that they won't lose money from this decision - which is probably why they made it. As long as the player numbers are not -18% less with The Division 2, then they have made more than what they would have if it was on Steam.
I'm saying we will see if it comes true. I think they will lose some playbase with this decision.
 
May 5, 2018
64
I'm saying we will see if it comes true. I think they will lose some playbase with this decision.
I too think they'll see more than an -18% drop, but not enough to have Ubisoft consider the move a failed decision - the benefits of the move (to them, and AAA pubs as a whole) stretch beyond the revenue of a single title.

But like you've said - we'll see.
 
Jan 31, 2018
1,178
Anything that hurts valve is a ok with me. I want old valve back and the only way I think I will ever get that is if steam crumbles or atleast weakens.

To me every store front is the same. All the niche features steam offers mean nothing compared to even 1 valve game sequel of their old IPs. Portal, half life, l4d.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,070
In multiple posts you are pretending that epic will magicly add features when there's little proof of that especially with their store being the way it is for so long and that stuff like epic buying exclusivity on games is a good thing. It's a shitty thing for epic to do.
Stuff like regional pricing i expect them to tackle if they wish to sell in those areas. Stuff like cards and controllers and VR? Who knows?

And as for buying exclusivity i dont care. i didnt care with consoles where i had to spend hundreds of dollars for hardware just to play the games i wanted, and from the looks of it many people dont care about clicking another icon to access the games they want either.

Anything that hurts valve is a ok with me. I want old valve back and the only way I think I will ever get that is if steam crumbles or atleast weakens.
When HL3 is announced everyone better get on their knees and thank Epic and Tencent lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
I too think they'll see more than an -18% drop, but not enough to have Ubisoft consider the move a failed decision - the benefits of the move (to them, and AAA pubs as a whole) stretch beyond the revenue of a single title.

But like you've said - we'll see.
I just don't see how this really benefits anyone but the epic store, it would be different if they were making it exclusive to the uplay store but taking it off one platform in spite of another just seems like a short sighted decision.
 
Oct 26, 2017
213
California
I've made my permanent switch to Linux. So I'm mostly out of this situation by means of OS, but it is non directly hurting me since Epic seems to be taking games off of the only storefront that did anything with (everything for) Linux gaming, hell gaming in general. I wouldn't be able to buy Division 2 anyways since it seems UBI DRM doesn't play well with Proton. Hopefully these companies get set straight and at least realize what they're doing is anti-consumer and only hurts them in the long run.

What a fucking mess this all is.
 
Oct 27, 2017
579
Anything that hurts valve is a ok with me. I want old valve back and the only way I think I will ever get that is if steam crumbles or atleast weakens.

To me every store front is the same. All the niche features steam offers mean nothing compared to even 1 valve game sequel of their old IPs. Portal, half life, l4d.
I don't know how much thought you put into this. If steam fails valve isn't going to suddenly start working on games again and getting them out in a timely manner.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,055
I just don't see how this really benefits anyone but the epic store
It doesn't. But that's what Epic is doing going for right now. They are building up a library (slowly) of high profile titles in order to entice people over to their platform. Once they have that, they're basically hoping others will follow suite without needing the moneyhat from Epic. Because I don't think Epic can keep this up forever. It has to cost them a lot of money to pay for the potential loss in sales from Steam's userbase. Especially for a big title like The Division 2.
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,322
Why are people continuously talking about 18%?

The revenue split on Steam for a highly successful full-price game like The Division is no longer 30%.
So that doesn't make sense, unless you are comparing to consoles?
 
Jan 31, 2018
1,178
I don't know how much thought you put into this. If steam fails valve isn't going to suddenly start working on games again and getting them out in a timely manner.
Want to bet? As someone who was gaming when half life 2 came out on PC you could literally watch Valves attention slide from games to steam in real time.
 
May 5, 2018
64
Why are people continuously talking about 18%?

The revenue split on Steam for a highly successful full-price game like The Division is no longer 30%.
So that doesn't make sense, unless you are comparing to consoles?
I think steam has a pretty consistent 30% steam-tax on all games, no preferential treatment. If some titles were getting a better deal from steam than others, that wouldn't be a great ecosystem for devs.

Happy to be proved wrong though.
 
Oct 30, 2017
54
Lets say the game did release on Steam... You would STILL have to use the Ubisoft launcher to launch it.

How is it any different? Just buy it on the Ubisoft launcher.
Well, I like my playtime tracked on Steam. I like to see when my Steam friends are playing the game. I like for my screenshots to be saved and uploaded in Steam to my activity feed because that is where my friends are. This is in addition to many of the other reasons posted in this thread dozens of times. This is similar to when EA took their games off of Steam. I now wait until their releases are sub $5.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,070
Want to bet? As someone who was gaming when half life 2 came out on PC you could literally watch Valves attention slide from games to steam in real time.
As big as a shit show its been with Epic coming onto the store scene could you imagine if they tried this even just a few years ago when the Lord Gaben PC Gaming Master Race stuff was in full effect? The freakouts would be much worse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,183
FIN
I think steam has a pretty consistent 30% steam-tax on all games, no preferential treatment. If some titles were getting a better deal from steam than others, that wouldn't be a great ecosystem for devs.

Happy to be proved wrong though.
I guess you missed this news last year.

The Steam Distribution Agreement was changed last Friday in an effort to give development studios a larger share. Unfortunately, this bigger cut only applies if you can sell a large number of games to begin with. Going forward, Valve will still take its standard 30% cut from games that make less than $10 million. Games that generate between $10 million and $50 million in revenue will only see 25% of that revenue taken by Valve. Meanwhile, games that generate more than $50 million will see an increased saving, with the Valve tax reduced to 20%. This change will affect all revenue earned from the 1st of October 2018 onwards.
https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/matthew-wilson/valve-announces-changes-to-steams-revenue-cut/
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,322
As big as a shit show its been with Epic coming onto the store scene could you imagine if they tried this even just a few years ago when the Lord Gaben PC Gaming Master Race stuff was in full effect? The freakouts would be much worse.
Yeah, a few years of consistent anti-Valve propaganda have prepared some gamers to act against their self-interest.

Luckily not so much PC gamers, at least judging from the reactions in more PC-focused communities.
 
Jan 27, 2018
34
Looks like I did miss the news last month - thanks for the link.

Those cuts - 30% up to $10m, 25% up to $50m, and 20% beyond that - are still pretty far out from what Epic store are offering.

Ubisoft maybe have it worked out that they would still turn a greater profit from shifting from Steam.
Yeah what is that like $7M less money for you when your game has made $50M. Pretty sure the bean counters would think that's significant.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,852
Anything that hurts valve is a ok with me. I want old valve back and the only way I think I will ever get that is if steam crumbles or atleast weakens.

To me every store front is the same. All the niche features steam offers mean nothing compared to even 1 valve game sequel of their old IPs. Portal, half life, l4d.
Now this is just plain childish.
Again, I've said it before, but if anyone said something like this on Sony, MS or Nintendo they'd be shot down quick.
 
Oct 18, 2018
299
Europe
Yeah, a few years of consistent anti-Valve propaganda have prepared some gamers to act against their self-interest.

Luckily not so much PC gamers, at least judging from the reactions in more PC-focused communities.
I feared for different reactions even on PC-focused site, guess ERA has warped my perception after all despite knowing what to expect here, but so far it's been rather negative everywhere else I went and especially on the sites I regularly visit that have a majority of PC folks posting. And in the end those are the ones Epic needs to convince.
 
Oct 25, 2017
762
Well, I like my playtime tracked on Steam. I like to see when my Steam friends are playing the game. I like for my screenshots to be saved and uploaded in Steam to my activity feed because that is where my friends are. This is in addition to many of the other reasons posted in this thread dozens of times. This is similar to when EA took their games off of Steam. I now wait until their releases are sub $5.
I can definitely see this point of view... And while you can always "Add a non-steam game", you still don't have time tracking or library functionality with it (Achievements, screenshots, etc).
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,277
I can definitely see this point of view... And while you can always "Add a non-steam game", you still don't have time tracking or library functionality with it (Achievements, screenshots, etc).
To be fair stat tracking is crazy detailed on the uplay app so that’s not a big deal but having it launcher wide needs to happen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,382
I'm someone who pays more for Ubisoft's games just to have them on Steam, especially if they have achievements! I'm really quite displeased about this news!

The Division is my #1 most played game on Steam by hour count, and now with the sequel I'll have to play it on a service that probably doesn't even track played time and let me easily view that in comparison with my other games!! Why not release it on both Epic Store and Steam and let people decide whichever they like best? I can't say it makes me think very highly of Tim Sweeney and the way he and his colleagues at Epic are choosing to draw attention to their new store. Money is more important than the user experience, which I might add is a lot more than just clicking an icon and booting up the game which I see some people trying to boil this down to. I'm not one bit happy about it whatsoever.


I find it sad that Tom Clancy's The Divsion 2 won't even have the chance to even appear on this list because of an unsavory business dealing!
Have you even used Uplay? Because it does all of these things.
 
Sep 10, 2018
1,510


Happy to help your understanding.
lol so you conveniently left out the part where devs get to make less on steam, especially less-successful devs?

or how about the perspective of devs on steam where they see games that are heavily-advertised and theirs being on page #35 of some genre or filter?
 

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,322
lol so you conveniently left out the part where devs get to make less on steam, especially less-successful devs?

or how about the perspective of devs on steam where they see games that are heavily-advertised and theirs being on page #35 of some genre or filter?
Erm, both of those things are featured prominently in the table. In the "developer" square on the Epic store side 88:12 is the only bold text in the entire image, and "Empty Shelves" is a major point.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,060
lol so you conveniently left out the part where devs get to make less on steam, especially less-successful devs?

or how about the perspective of devs on steam where they see games that are heavily-advertised and theirs being on page #35 of some genre or filter?
Respectively 88:12 and Empty Shelves.