• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.

The Division 2 Is Ditching Steam For The Epic Games Store On PC [See Threadmarks]

Oct 25, 2017
3,519
lol so you conveniently left out the part where devs get to make less on steam, especially less-successful devs?

or how about the perspective of devs on steam where they see games that are heavily-advertised and theirs being on page #35 of some genre or filter?
maybe look at the picture again
 

Static

Loki
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,665
Looks like I did miss the news last month - thanks for the link.

Those cuts - 30% up to $10m, 25% up to $50m, and 20% beyond that - are still pretty far out from what Epic store are offering.

Ubisoft maybe have it worked out that they would still turn a greater profit from shifting from Steam.
That’s true, but steam also lets developers generate keys for free to give away or sell elsewhere which steam will service without charge. Those are sales that valve does all the same stuff to support, but without getting paid. Steam keys sold elsewhere account for a significant portion of games registered on steam, and reduces the effective steam cut. For games successful enough to go far beyond the $50m threshold, it may be reducing the steam cut to below 12%. I suspect that it may be untenable for valve to both continue to offer and support free key generation and match the storefront cut of EGS, Discord, and certainly Itch.
 

invid02

Self requested ban.
Member
Oct 28, 2017
61
That’s true, but steam also lets developers generate keys for free to give away or sell elsewhere which steam will service without charge. Those are sales that valve does all the same stuff to support, but without getting paid. Steam keys sold elsewhere account for a significant portion of games registered on steam, and reduces the effective steam cut. For games successful enough to go far beyond the $50m threshold, it may be reducing the steam cut to below 12%. I suspect that it may be untenable for valve to both continue to offer and support free key generation and match the storefront cut of EGS, Discord, and certainly Itch.
This steam key argument comes up frequently, it might be have been relevant years ago mostly for indie games, but its not salient anymore. Games are a service now, especially stuff like the Division, nobody wants to continue paying Valve 30% of all service generated revenue like season passes, microtransactions etc
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,975
This steam key argument comes up frequently, it might be have been relevant years ago mostly for indie games, but its not salient anymore. Games are a service now, especially stuff like the Division, nobody wants to continue paying Valve 30% of all service generated revenue like season passes, microtransactions etc
Imagine if Epic, unlike steam, lets Ubi process mtx through uplay for the Epic store version (as return for being the 3rd party exclusive store for one of 2019's biggest game) then Ubi makes 100% on all mtx for a service based game that entirely relies on mtx to support itself.
 
Dec 18, 2017
368
lol so you conveniently left out the part where devs get to make less on steam, especially less-successful devs?

or how about the perspective of devs on steam where they see games that are heavily-advertised and theirs being on page #35 of some genre or filter?
the devs over at Ubisoft are really struggling with all of their games on page #35 with little to no advertising. Epic is sticking up for the little guy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,879
Imagine if Epic, unlike steam, lets Ubi process mtx through uplay for the Epic store version (as return for being the 3rd party exclusive store for one of 2019's biggest game) then Ubi makes 100% on all mtx for a service based game that entirely relies on mtx to support itself.
That's probably the biggest part of it. They're like Apple at this point right? Like, you have to completely separate your ecosystem out into Steam/nonsteam variants and only get to sell shit through steam if someone buys the steam version of your game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,975
That's probably the biggest part of it. They're like Apple at this point right? Like, you have to completely separate your ecosystem out into Steam/nonsteam variants and only get to sell shit through steam if someone buys the steam version of your game.
Yep. I have both steam and uplay version of Siege. If I try to process an ingame mtx through uplay version the transaction process is started on uplay itself and I am given the option to choose my payment method. If I boot up the steam version and try to process an mtx in that, the point where I originally got the option to input payment method I only get one option and that option is to redirect me to steam which is where I have to put in my payment method.

I have the uplay version of AC Origins and steam version of AC Odyssey, it's the same exact story there. If I try to make a transaction in Odyssey then despite the "steam version" of the game running on uplay and the game itself being built around uplay and its store....it wont let me process the transaction on uplay.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
873
New York, NY
People here are always saying competition in the gaming industry is a good thing, except when a game isn’t launching on Steam.

People also endlessly complain about Uplay, and now that Ubisoft is giving us another option it’s more of an issue?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,975
People here are always saying competition in the gaming industry is a good thing, except when a game isn’t launching on Steam.

People also endlessly complain about Uplay, and now that Ubisoft is giving us another option it’s more of an issue?
Uplay is mandatory regardless of what the other option is. Also most people do like uplay because it gives 20% store discounts to its users and has managed to consolidate players regardless of where they bought the game (steam, uplay, origin) into one system i.e. uplay due to it being mandatory for Ubi games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
FIN
People here are always saying competition in the gaming industry is a good thing, except when a game isn’t launching on Steam.

People also endlessly complain about Uplay, and now that Ubisoft is giving us another option it’s more of an issue?
Are they giving another option? In a way I guess, while removing another option from consumer.

How their games sold on Steam wasn't already another option to purchasing from uPlay?

People very rarely, especially now days, get riled up over uPlay or Origin as they are now good and competitive platforms in their own right. If you have done any variety PC gaming over past 8 or so years you do know that, those platforms matured nicely. Without paying off publishers and dev houses to joink games from Steam after they were already listed and sold on Steam.

If you have been paying attention to discussion you do know that most of peoples issues with Epic Store are with how Epic is operating their store and how they have openly said that they have next to no interest in improving it, not so much with PC landscape getting 28th launcher and storefront. We are used to those.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,202
Epic's refund policy was changed to match Steam's (as of 1/9/2019).

https://epicgames.com/site/en-US/store-refund-policy

You can cancel your preorder and get a refund at any time before release. After the game is released, you can request a refund within 14 days if you have not played the game for more than 2 hours. For purposes of this policy, “release” includes any playable version of the game, including beta versions.
It is kinda funny how everyone says Epic is good for competition because that will fix Steam, but it seems like Steam is fixing Epic.
 
Jan 31, 2018
1,586
Now this is just plain childish.
Again, I've said it before, but if anyone said something like this on Sony, MS or Nintendo they'd be shot down quick.
Eh if you bold that first sentence and don’t read what I was actually saying it’s childish sure. But that’s a nice hot take you have there.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
Oct 28, 2017
5,087
Belgium
People here are always saying competition in the gaming industry is a good thing, except when a game isn’t launching on Steam.

People also endlessly complain about Uplay, and now that Ubisoft is giving us another option it’s more of an issue?
People want to buy and play their games in their ecosystem of choice. How hard is this to understand?

Also, while Ubisoft is giving us another option, they also took a very popular option away. No one would complain if Ubisoft sold their games on both steam and Epic's store.
 
I just wrote my opinion on why Ubi games on Epic's Game Store are a special kind of stupid on another thread, and I think the post is more relevant here so I'll copy paste it.

Steam versions of Ubi games made sense because some people just "like" to have their games on Steam. They accept having a Steam version that comes with Uplay bundled in, and prefer that to the standalone Uplay version, because it integrates with Steam. So they accept Uplay, but they still want to have Steam features given the option.

But people who have the equivalent feeling of "wanting the game on Epic's store" don't exist. The EGS version of The Division 2 makes no sense. Previously, these people who prefer having their games on Steam could choose between having the game on a store they like bundled with a store they don't care about, or just having the game on the store they don't care about period. Now they can choose between have the game on one store they don't care about or... having the game on a store they don't care about bundled with another store they don't care about. Double DRM just like Steam + Uplay except with no advantages...

yeah... lol.

I don't understand who is gonna buy Ubi games on EGS. Who is this aimed for. It makes no sense no matter how you look at it. It would make more sense for them to just drop Steam and stick to Uplay period lmao
 
Jan 31, 2018
1,586
I just wrote my opinion on why Ubi games on Epic's Game Store are a special kind of stupid on another thread, and I think the post is more relevant here so I'll copy paste it.

Steam versions of Ubi games made sense because some people just "like" to have their games on Steam. They accept having a Steam version that comes with Uplay bundled in, and prefer that to the standalone Uplay version, because it integrates with Steam. So they accept Uplay, but they still want to have Steam features given the option.

But people who have the equivalent feeling of "wanting the game on Epic's store" don't exist. The EGS version of The Division 2 makes no sense. Previously, these people who prefer having their games on Steam could choose between having the game on a store they like bundled with a store they don't care about, or just having the game on the store they don't care about period. Now they can choose between have the game on one store they don't care about or... having the game on a store they don't care about bundled with another store they don't care about. Double DRM just like Steam + Uplay except with no advantages...

yeah... lol.

I don't understand who is gonna buy Ubi games on EGS. Who is this aimed for. It makes no sense no matter how you look at it. It would make more sense for them to just drop Steam and stick to Uplay period lmao
If I had to guess it’s a marketing deal for Epic. This thread and everyone complaining/talking about it is free marketing for epics game store.
 
If I had to guess it’s a marketing deal for Epic. This thread and everyone complaining/talking about it is free marketing for epics game store.
I see it as free hatred. Every piece of news about the EGS generates a terrible response because they are just taking away things from us, they have offered exactly ZERO good things for any consumer ever. Sure we are talking about EGS but these kind of news that generate such a "oh fuck you" response aren't gonna make people spend money on the store.
 
Oct 25, 2017
464
lol so you conveniently left out the part where devs get to make less on steam, especially less-successful devs?

or how about the perspective of devs on steam where they see games that are heavily-advertised and theirs being on page #35 of some genre or filter?
Lol
 
Jan 31, 2018
1,586
I see it as free hatred. Every piece of news about the EGS generates a terrible response because they are just taking away things from us, they have offered exactly ZERO good things for any consumer ever. Sure we are talking about EGS but these kind of news that generate such a "oh fuck you" response aren't gonna make people spend money on the store.
Everyone hated steam when it came out now look at this thread. No such thing as bad publicity for a new marketplace. Awareness is far more important.
 
Oct 25, 2017
414

BernardoOne

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
lol so you conveniently left out the part where devs get to make less on steam, especially less-successful devs?

or how about the perspective of devs on steam where they see games that are heavily-advertised and theirs being on page #35 of some genre or filter?
Less-sucessful devs don't make less on Steam. In fact, they make exactly zero dollars on the Epic store.
Mind you, Durante didn't leave it out of the image at all. Get some glasses.
People here are always saying competition in the gaming industry is a good thing, except when a game isn’t launching on Steam.

People also endlessly complain about Uplay, and now that Ubisoft is giving us another option it’s more of an issue?
What about stop shitposting and actually think for a minute.

Ubisoft isn't "giving us another option". At all. In fact, they pulled The Division 2 from both Origin and Steam. Surely you know enough math to realize that yes, this is less options, and this isn't competition.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,879
Less-sucessful devs don't make less on Steam. In fact, they make exactly zero dollars on the Epic store.
Mind you, Durante didn't leave it out of the image at all. Get some glasses.

What about stop shitposting and actually think for a minute.

Ubisoft isn't "giving us another option". At all. In fact, they pulled The Division 2 from both Origin and Steam. Surely you know enough math to realize that yes, this is less options, and this isn't competition.
If you guys want Steam to remain competitive, maybe direct your questions at Valve and why they aren't willing to budge on the cut they give pubs. It's that simple. This isn't equivilent to real life retail, it's not hard for someone to download another launcher, and a huge percentage of gamers already have said launcher.

It's really that basic. It's only going to keep happening with big pubs as long as steam doesn't represent an attractive option to them.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
If you guys want Steam to remain competitive, maybe direct your questions at Valve and why they aren't willing to budge on the cut they give pubs. It's that simple. This isn't equivilent to real life retail, it's not hard for someone to download another launcher, and a huge percentage of gamers already have said launcher.

It's really that basic. It's only going to keep happening with big pubs as long as steam doesn't represent an attractive option to them.
They already budged on the cut. Why do people keep on coming into these threads with uninformed bullshit
 

Static

Loki
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,665
They already budged on the cut. Why do people keep on coming into these threads with uninformed bullshit
I think TheYanger knows that they just mean meet or beat EGS's 12%. Which is kind of a shit deal for them. They do way more and offer free off site key generation. If EGS manages to bully them into that position they'll be the store doing vastly more than any other for a lot less money.

Even that may not be enough though, so long as Epic remains happy to bankroll exclusives and Valve remains ideologically opposed to it.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
4,879
I think TheYanger knows that they just mean meet or beat EGS's 12%. Which is kind of a shit deal for them. They do way more and offer free off site key generation. If EGS manages to bully them into that position they'll be the store doing vastly more than any other for a lot less money.

Even that may not be enough though, so long as Epic remains happy to bankroll exclusives and Valve remains ideologically opposed to it.
Steam goes way beyond just a cut difference, they also take a huge 30% cut on every microtransaction any steam version of a game sells. Ubisoft forces you to use Uplay even if you buy a steam game, but you STILL have to pay valve just to buy a dlc item. In games based almost entirely around DLC this is huge.

It's basically the exact same problem companies like Spotify and Netflix have with Apple and the app store, except that since this is a PC all they have to do is...not sell it through a completely optional ecosystem and still have effectively the same market.

Steam is basically in a position where they are acting the same as MS/Sony/Apple, except that they're not in a closed market and thus the market is responding. That's what this is. This shift has been happening for several years now and it's not likely to stop - at this point if you're attached to Steam as a marketplace, you cannot ALSO extol the virtues of a PC without being willing to budge on that front. You're no longer able to buy a reasonably large percentage of the largest games on the platform if you do so, and it's only going to grow not shrink. Again, if you think Steam is what you'd rather play games on, you have two options: Don't buy products not on steam, or Tell valve that hey maybe you should work a bit better with pubs so their stuff comes here because I want to support you. The first one is far less likely to actually work, seeing as these companies already have factored in the number of people their marketing departments think give THAT much of a shit about Steam as their only source of gaming and considered it unimportant enough to go ahead regardless.
 
Oct 27, 2017
201
Steam's share changes are going to do jack shit for titles that already made up their mind (or paid to) to not be on Steam. It's still a worse deal that you need to first earn $X (in however long it will take you) to get. Compared to 88% from the very first sale. The Steam change might cause devs who were toying with the idea to re-consider and not sign exclusive deals with Epic.
 

Deleted member 43077

User requested account closure
Member
May 9, 2018
5,741
You dont announce a partnership then. And if it was about the cut, it wouldnt be sold on 3rd party stores taking the same cut.
we dont know what the conditions of said partnership are, for all we know they are doing Division 2 and like 1 more 2019 game like this and that's it for the current partnership as it stands.

Idk only time will tell how well this plan works and what they do moving forward, personally dont really care and will just get the game on Uplay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,790
we dont know what the conditions of said partnership are, for all we know they are doing Division 2 and like 1 more 2019 game like this and that's it for the current partnership as it stands.

Idk only time will tell how well this plan works and what they do moving forward, personally dont really care and will just get the game on Uplay.


That's the thing. I dont see it working. This move is just one meant to hurt Steam rather than making Epic Store more appealing.
What's the incentive to buy on the Epic Store ? Every 3rd party stores sell Uplay keys. The game is cheaper on Uplay and gives more money to the dev.

The only point here is the mindshare.
 

Deleted member 43077

User requested account closure
Member
May 9, 2018
5,741
That's the thing. I dont see it working. This move is just one meant to hurt Steam rather than making Epic Store more appealing.
What's the incentive to buy on the Epic Store ? Every 3rd party stores sell Uplay keys. The game is cheaper on Uplay and gives more money to the dev.

The only point here is the mindshare.
I dont know, personally id prefer it if it was just sold everywhere Steam, uplay, Epic, MS Store etc etc all with no boundaries at all but oh well.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,526
It's basically the exact same problem companies like Spotify and Netflix have with Apple and the app store, except that since this is a PC all they have to do is...not sell it through a completely optional ecosystem and still have effectively the same market.
Will they have the same market? We'll see whether or not that is indeed the case.

Steam is basically in a position where they are acting the same as MS/Sony/Apple, except that they're not in a closed market and thus the market is responding. That's what this is. This shift has been happening for several years now and it's not likely to stop - at this point if you're attached to Steam as a marketplace, you cannot ALSO extol the virtues of a PC without being willing to budge on that front.
I absolutely can and I absolutely will. On an open platform like the PC customers have the choice to support services that they think are doing a good job and reject those that are doing a bad job without putting absolutely everything on the line. Simply put: if you think that Sony sucks and don't want to support them by using their services, you are completely locked out of the Playstation platform. If you think that Steam sucks and don't want to supoort them by using their services, you still have tons of games available to you through various services. It is this open nature of the PC that allows me to ignore, say, Ubisoft games and still have thousands of other games at my disposal without having to switch platforms completely.
 
Nov 1, 2017
4,111
Eastern US
That's the thing. I dont see it working. This move is just one meant to hurt Steam rather than making Epic Store more appealing.
What's the incentive to buy on the Epic Store ? Every 3rd party stores sell Uplay keys. The game is cheaper on Uplay and gives more money to the dev.

The only point here is the mindshare.
It's Tencent most likely in this case. They own a big chunk of Epic and they are a significant investor into Ubisoft. Plus add in some sort of special deal due to Epic's bankroll.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,555
EU
So many moves by and news about Epic. I don't have a problem with them getting big games on their store. But I hope they will update their store constantly to make it more attractive as it's pretty barebones right now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,790
I dont know, personally id prefer it if it was just sold everywhere Steam, uplay, Epic, MS Store etc etc all with no boundaries at all but oh well.
Ideally, yes.

So many moves by and news about Epic. I don't have a problem with them getting big games on their store. But I hope they will update their store constantly to make it more attractive as it's pretty barebones right now.
There's no problem with them getting big games. There is a problem with them limiting people's choice.
 
Aug 23, 2018
1,148
That’s true, but steam also lets developers generate keys for free to give away or sell elsewhere which steam will service without charge. Those are sales that valve does all the same stuff to support, but without getting paid. Steam keys sold elsewhere account for a significant portion of games registered on steam, and reduces the effective steam cut. For games successful enough to go far beyond the $50m threshold, it may be reducing the steam cut to below 12%. I suspect that it may be untenable for valve to both continue to offer and support free key generation and match the storefront cut of EGS, Discord, and certainly Itch.
This argument keeps cropping up, and it still remains disingenuous.
Most purchases are done on the steam storefront, a fact many of you reference when you keep talking about 'Steam Customer base'. Those purchased offsite are still redeemed on Steam, an event which is still of great value to Valve since it brings customers to the storefront where other games can be marketed to them.
on this forum, many of us damn the likes of Activision, Ubisoft and EA for chasing more and more revenue despite soaring profits, yet aren't keen to urge Valve to cut their take to help the developers that are responsible for their ever increasing profits. Their recent changes to give large publishers a better cut is a slap in the face of small developers on the platform.

In due course, competition from the likes of Epic will force them to give small developers a better share. And that's a good thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,790
This argument keeps cropping up, and it still remains disingenuous.
Most purchases are done on the steam storefront, a fact many of you reference when you keep talking about 'Steam Customer base'. Those purchased offsite are still redeemed on Steam, an event which is still of great value to Valve since it brings customers to the storefront where other games can be marketed to them.
on this forum, many of us damn the likes of Activision, Ubisoft and EA for chasing more and more revenue despite soaring profits, yet aren't keen to urge Valve to cut their take to help the developers that are responsible for their ever increasing profits. Their recent changes to give large publishers a better cut is a slap in the face of small developers on the platform.

In due course, competition from the likes of Epic will force them to give small developers a better share. And that's a good thing.

People explained you why that's not a good thing for customers and in the end, developpers.
Lower cut for stores means the death of 3rd party stores. Death of 3rd party stores, which relied on a price competition thanks to flexibility on their cut, means fixed prices, or higher than actual ones. Which means less buying power. TOday for 60 bucks, I can buy one AAA game and one or two indie titles.
Tomorrow, with 60 bucks, I'll buy my AAA game and the others will get shit.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,555
EU
There's no problem with them getting big games. There is a problem with them limiting people's choice.
Yeah, store exclusivity sucks. But that's obviously the way Epic is going to attack Steam, so it's going to happen more and more. It's inevitable, so I just hope that the Epic store will catch up fast with all those features steam offers. Or at least the most important ones.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,790
Yeah, store exclusivity sucks. But that's obviously the way Epic is going to attack Steam, so it's going to happen more and more. It's inevitable, so I just hope that the Epic store will catch up fast with all those features steam offers. Or at least the most important ones.

It's not inevitable. It's not normal. It's not the way it should happen.
I have a problem with the "Release first, fix later" mindset Epic is going for. Because the "fix later" tends to never happen.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,555
EU
It's not inevitable. It's not normal. It's not the way it should happen.
I have a problem with the "Release first, fix later" mindset Epic is going for. Because the "fix later" tends to never happen.
I agree that it shouldn't be that way. But Epic is going to do it and good games will sell well even if they aren't on Steam.