• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.

The Division 2 Is Ditching Steam For The Epic Games Store On PC [See Threadmarks]

Oct 27, 2017
1,181
Scotland
It's Tencent most likely in this case. They own a big chunk of Epic and they are a significant investor into Ubisoft. Plus add in some sort of special deal due to Epic's bankroll.
Also according to their wiki page they are considered the direct competitor to Steam in China and are wanting to expand their service to the West. From the wiki.

In 2017, 21 April, Tencent announced the rebranding of its Chinese 'Tencent game platform' as WeGame,[174]which was launched in September 2017. Tencent has since announced plans to develop a Hong Kong edition of WeGame that can be used by players outside of China, potentially setting up the platform to compete with Valve Corporation's Steam platform.
Conspiracy theory time but is it in Tencents best interest to weaken Steam before making any sort of move on a western market? Maybe a reaction to Steam launching in China last year?
 
Aug 23, 2018
1,148
People explained you why that's not a good thing for customers and in the end, developpers.
Lower cut for stores means the death of 3rd party stores. Death of 3rd party stores, which relied on a price competition thanks to flexibility on their cut, means fixed prices, or higher than actual ones. Which means less buying power. TOday for 60 bucks, I can buy one AAA game and one or two indie titles.
Tomorrow, with 60 bucks, I'll buy my AAA game and the others will get shit.
Take it down to 20% and 3rd party stores can still make their dough by taking 10% off.
Reducing storefront cut will definitely give developers more money. It is only an assumption that 3rd party key sites will go out of business to the detriment of developers. Why discard what is a certainty for mere conjecture?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,791
Take it down to 20% and 3rd party stores can still make their dough by taking 10% off.
Reducing storefront cut will definitely give developers more money. It is only an assumption that 3rd party key sites will go out of business to the detriment of developers. Why discard what is a certainty for mere conjecture?
So instead of having 20% off discounts, I'm getting 10%. I don't benefit here.
Take it down to 20% will still be more than the 12% though.
How is that a mere conjecture ? That's basically a realistic look at how it works. You'd know it if you were using these sites.

I agree that it shouldn't be that way. But Epic is going to do it and good games will sell well even if they aren't on Steam.
That's where I'm doubtful.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,385
People explained you why that's not a good thing for customers and in the end, developpers.
Lower cut for stores means the death of 3rd party stores. Death of 3rd party stores, which relied on a price competition thanks to flexibility on their cut, means fixed prices, or higher than actual ones. Which means less buying power. TOday for 60 bucks, I can buy one AAA game and one or two indie titles.
Tomorrow, with 60 bucks, I'll buy my AAA game and the others will get shit.
I am going to politely disagree. I think Steam has gotten too big and now the smaller lesser known titles could suffer because of it. Even their royalty ratio promotes the big guys. Epic could be a place that has less clutter.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,087
Belgium
Yeah, store exclusivity sucks. But that's obviously the way Epic is going to attack Steam, so it's going to happen more and more. It's inevitable, so I just hope that the Epic store will catch up fast with all those features steam offers. Or at least the most important ones.
It's not inevitable. If enough PC gamers raise their voice and vote with their wallets against this, devs and publishers will stop accepting Epic's moneyhats and Epic will stop doing it. Meanwhile, there are plenty of other great games to play on PC.
 
Nov 1, 2017
4,111
Eastern US
So instead of having 20% off discounts, I'm getting 10%. I don't benefit here.
Take it down to 20% will still be more than the 12% though.
How is that a mere conjecture ? That's basically a realistic look at how it works. You'd know it if you were using these sites.

That's where I'm doubtful.
That's the question, isn't it. Are games selling well on Elic's store? Division 2 may sell because it's an AAA title and somewhat fits with Fortnite audience but the indie games? Not particularly convinced and of course Epic won't release sales figures een though they hired SteamSpy guy who was super critical (justifiably mind you) when Valve stopped the API allowing for SteamSpy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,791
I am going to politely disagree. I think Steam has gotten too big and now the smaller lesser known titles could suffer because of it. Even their royalty ratio promotes the big guys. Epic could be a place that has less clutter.
You're disagreeing but you're not replying to what I said. I'm not talking about Steam here, but Humble, GreenManGaming, Voidu. The smaller less known titles suffers from better titles. That's all.

That's the question, isn't it. Are games selling well on Elic's store? Division 2 may sell because it's an AAA title and somewhat fits with Fortnite audience but the indie games? Not particularly convinced and of course Epic won't release sales figures een though they hired SteamSpy guy who was super critical (justifiably mind you) when Valve stopped the API allowing for SteamSpy.
I doubt Division 2 is gonna sell on Epic Store for a reason: It's sold on Uplay and every other stores are selling Uplay keys. People buying Ubisoft titles on Steam are buying it for Steam. What's the incentive to buy it on Epic Store though ? It's available in better shape on Uplay. It's available everywhere else with Uplay keys for cheaper. If you want to buy it on Epic Store you have to actively want to own it on the Epic Store. The only point here for Epic is to prevent Steam from having it. They compete for mindshare here.
 
Nov 1, 2017
4,111
Eastern US
It's not inevitable. If enough PC gamers raise their voice and vote with their wallets against this, devs and publishers will stop accepting Epic's moneyhats and Epic will stop doing it. Meanwhile, there are plenty of other great games to play on PC.
Yeap, if that 12% cut comes along with shit sales, does it matter? We won't know for a while since Epic will probably prop some exclusives up but it's going to be interesting to see what happens in next year or two.

On Tencent, I wouldn't be surprised if Epic store gets rebadged WeGame in the East and gains WeChat integration for their social aspects.
 
Aug 22, 2018
876
I could only imagine the uproar if valve were to do something like this.

If they lowered their cut significantly all thise small stores could never in a million years compete. Epic has made a lot of money ey from this one game but steam has made a lot of money from a lot of games for a lot of years. They could money hat anu game they wanted. I wonder how some people would react to that...


And the notion that this is good for smaller devs is so stupid. These are still largely curated stores, were back to the whole well, i need to stand out in a market place that is crowded with goos games, steam, or i probably wont be allowed in at all a the other store.

For the few that get in it might be profitable but the vast majority will only suffer from a more splintered user base.
 
Nov 1, 2017
4,111
Eastern US
You're disagreeing but you're not replying to what I said. I'm not talking about Steam here, but Humble, GreenManGaming, Voidu. The smaller less known titles suffers from better titles. That's all.

I doubt Division 2 is gonna sell on Epic Store for a reason: It's sold on Uplay and every other stores are selling Uplay keys. People buying Ubisoft titles on Steam are buying it for Steam. What's the incentive to buy it on Epic Store though ? It's available in better shape on Uplay. It's available everywhere else with Uplay keys for cheaper. If you want to buy it on Epic Store you have to actively want to own it on the Epic Store. The only point here for Epic is to prevent Steam from having it. They compete for mindshare here.
The incentive is Tencent :).
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,791
I could only imagine the uproar if valve were to do something like this.

If they lowered their cut significantly all thise small stores could never in a million years compete. Epic has made a lot of money ey from this one game but steam has made a lot of money from a lot of games for a lot of years. They could money hat anu game they wanted. I wonder how some people would react to that...


And the notion that this is good for smaller devs is so stupid. These are still largely curated stores, were back to the whole well, i need to stand out in a market place that is crowded with goos games, steam, or i probably wont be allowed in at all a the other store.

For the few that get in it might be profitable but the vast majority will only suffer from a more splintered user base.

That's what some indies dont want to hear unfortunately. If the store were to be curated, they'd be the one curated.

The incentive is Tencent :).
I mean for the user. Not the reason on Ubi's deal :p
 
its a good time to say fuck you to epic store and ubisoft. i still in all the pages read here, have not found a single compelling argument in favor of epic store moneyhatting.
no features, barebones client, and people with their strawman competition argument saying they are not here for features, but for the game. gtfo with that bullshit. as if you have never pressed f12 on steam to save a screenshot.

see, i can get the division 2 on gmg with 15 percent off and another 10% for a code i have earned after buying so much from there. Thats a ridiculous discount for a place that takes i believe, 30% as well for their cut? so ubisfot putting it on gmg yet not on steam, only proves epics moneyhatting even more.

but whatever, competition is good is what the illusionists keep saying. lets see how good competition is when triple A games dont sell shit on epic store.

either way i have made up my mind and i wont even bother with this game until it comes to steam, cause we all know they will come back to it at some point.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,133
Scotland
So it's on Uplay and Epic Store instead of Uplay and Steam. Ok. I'm nonplussed. Unless I own stock in Valve I don't see the kerfuffle. Business is business and Epic must have given them better terms.

Edit - I am 100% a single player of games so my opinion is skewed that way. If you are a sociable person who enjoys playing with others and the associated functions available through digital online storefronts then sure I could see some kerfuffle.
 
Last edited:

khamakazee

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,385
Apparently only Steam is not allowed 30% but the others get a pass because REASONS! The Steam hate brigade is pathetic.
Why is it hate to support more options? yes I understand the contradiction being this game and a few others are not available on Steam but why use the term hate?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,975
Take it down to 20% and 3rd party stores can still make their dough by taking 10% off.
Reducing storefront cut will definitely give developers more money. It is only an assumption that 3rd party key sites will go out of business to the detriment of developers. Why discard what is a certainty for mere conjecture?
It already is 20% for AAA developers (and also AA in most cases)
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,466
Why is it hate to support more options? yes I understand the contradiction being this game and a few others are not available on Steam but why use the term hate?
Edit: nvm, I'm stupid.

You say this like its some kind of gotcha but that would be great if consoles gave developers a bigger percentage. Who knows? Maybe in several years time we will be talking about Epics new console.
Think that will be even harder, assuming Epic develops their own console. Doubt indies will accept money to put a game exclusive to one console (especially a newcomer console) while ignoring the other 3.

Do you think some consoles have a monopoly and that is why they moneyhat titles?
Unless I'm wrong, these days console exclusives are exclusives because the console manufacturer helps funding the development of said game, in case it is a third party game.
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
3,555
EU
It's not inevitable. If enough PC gamers raise their voice and vote with their wallets against this, devs and publishers will stop accepting Epic's moneyhats and Epic will stop doing it. Meanwhile, there are plenty of other great games to play on PC.
True, I just don't believe that enough gamers will vote with their wallet. There have been multiple big games that haven't been released on Steam and I believe they are strong enough to skip steam. Especially on the Epic store where millions of Fortnite players will spread the message. With small games though I agree, see Thronebreaker on GoG which did not sell well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,798
Man, Epic is firing on all cilynders. Sooner than later will be a formidable foe in the PC market. Hopefully it moves Steam to reduce its fee.
We as customers shouldn't worry about that fee. We should instead worry about getting what the games we want, where we want them, packaged in a way that we're comfortable with, at a price we think is fair.
 
Jun 7, 2018
787
Why is it hate to support more options? yes I understand the contradiction being this game and a few others are not available on Steam but why use the term hate?
You must've missed all the "Stick it to Valve" and "hope Valve suffers so they make HL3" posts, Valve is one of those companies that get irrational hatred by many posters around here, some with a feverish fanaticism. And like you said there's no options given by Epic's move, only options taken off the table.

I hope steam moneyhats devs and publishers so people can actually have a reason to call steam a monopoly
I'd love it just to see the massive hypocritical reaction by the people cheering Epic's moneyhatting.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,385
You must've missed all the "Stick it to Valve" and hope "Valve suffers so they make HL3" posts, Valve is one of those companies that get irrational hatred by many posters around here, some with a feverish fanaticism. And like you said there's no options given by Epic's move, only options taken off the table.
I wish they would make more traditional games but other than that Steam/Valve has been great. But what do I know, Sandersson thinks I'm some peasant console fanboy. The hostlie attitude seems to be going both ways and is uncalled for.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
7,459
Omni
Do you think some consoles have a monopoly and that is why they moneyhat titles?

I don’t think any console has a monopoly but if you throw enough money at something , you can convince someone to do something other than what they originally planned such as with shadow of tomb raider.

I mean these companies simply didn’t decide to all of a sudden on good faith to stop releasing games on one platform that they previously announced and had a store page just to jump over exclusively (excluding their own store I.e Ubisoft) to another store - money is involved, these are businesses , not some charity group.

If one group does moneyhatting, I expect the competitor to do so the same soon.
 
Mar 1, 2018
312
We as customers shouldn't worry about that fee. We should instead worry about getting what the games we want, where we want them, packaged in a way that we're comfortable with, at a price we think is fair.
What? There's a reason people buy free range eggs and fair trade coffee. Many people believe, rightfully so, that companies have a social responsibility. It's up to you where your line is or what you're willing to give up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,798
What? There's a reason people buy free range eggs and fair trade coffee. Many people believe, rightfully so, that companies have a social responsibility. It's up to you where your line is or what you're willing to give up.
If Valves revenue split was completely unjust, and where they didn't give anything back for what they take, your comparison would hold up better. Trying to paint supporting the Epic Store revenue split as something akin to social responsibility is just plain silly.

If I had the option to pay more, for a product where the devs get a bit more, and the product is "ecological" (less DRM and similiar stuff) then I would gladly pay that. That's a better comparison with how I chose which groceries. But as with groceries, I will not the same or more for a lesser product, which is why the Epic Store is a bad option for me, and in that context, the revenue split cannot be something I as customer base my purchasing decisions on.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,459
Omni
What? There's a reason people buy free range eggs and fair trade coffee. Many people believe, rightfully so, that companies have a social responsibility. It's up to you where your line is or what you're willing to give up.
Itch.io offers a bigger cut in games than epic or steam yet none of these well known pubs and devs went to their store

I wonder why ....
 

ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,502
United Kingdom
Itch.io offers a bigger cut in games than epic or steam yet none of these well known pubs and devs went to their store

I wonder why ....
Because itch.io is more known as being an indie game store rather than the store that Fortnite is exclusively on? I guess they're getting a better cut and putting their game on a store that millions of people already use.

That doesn't mean for a second that Fortnite players are suddenly gonna all buy The Division 2 on the Epic store but I can see why it would be the decision over something like Itch.io.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,211
Surely this will also force Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft to reduce their fee too.
This is likely never happening in the console space as long as physical retail exists.
Because itch.io is more known as being an indie game store rather than the store that Fortnite is exclusively on? I guess they're getting a better cut and putting their game on a store that millions of people already use.
So why not the Discord store then? Millions of users, better cut than Epic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,791
Because itch.io is more known as being an indie game store rather than the store that Fortnite is exclusively on? I guess they're getting a better cut and putting their game on a store that millions of people already use.

That doesn't mean for a second that Fortnite players are suddenly gonna all buy The Division 2 on the Epic store but I can see why it would be the decision over something like Itch.io.

No one use the Epic Store as of yet. People use the Epic launcher. That is two different things. And even then, it's relying on the blurry "200M Fortnite users" without telling how many are PC users.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,385
I don’t think any console has a monopoly but if you throw enough money at something , you can convince someone to do something other than what they originally planned such as with shadow of tomb raider.

I mean these companies simply didn’t decide to all of a sudden on good faith to stop releasing games on one platform that they previously announced and had a store page just to jump over exclusively (excluding their own store I.e Ubisoft) to another store - money is involved, these are businesses , not some charity group.

If one group does moneyhatting, I expect the competitor to do so the same soon.
Steam won't go there. They are very open and have repeatedly suggested in VR for example to be an open space. The only thing I could see Valve doing is continuing to just release their own games on Steam only.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,459
Omni
Because itch.io is more known as being an indie game store rather than the store that Fortnite is exclusively on? I guess they're getting a better cut and putting their game on a store that millions of people already use.

That doesn't mean for a second that Fortnite players are suddenly gonna all buy The Division 2 on the Epic store but I can see why it would be the decision over something like Itch.io.
My post was in reference to the indies who ended up taking a game off the steam store to exclusively sell on epic

But if we are talking AAA pubs and devs , discord announced a even higher rate than itch.io, steam or epic.

(What I am saying is changing fee won’t do anything)
 
Mar 1, 2018
312
If Valves revenue split was completely unjust, and where they didn't give anything back for what they take, your comparison would hold up better. Trying to paint supporting the Epic Store revenue split as something akin to social responsibility is just plain silly.

If I had the option to pay more, for a product where the devs get a bit more, and the product is "ecological" (less DRM and similiar stuff) then I would gladly pay that. That's a better comparison with how I chose which groceries. But as with groceries, I will not the same or more for a lesser product, which is why the Epic Store is a bad option for me, and in that context, the revenue split cannot be something I as customer base my purchasing decisions on.
The Epic Store split is better for the industry. That's the perspective of most who are supporting the store for that reason I'd imagine, that's also part of the reasoning behind Epic's decision. It's better and healthier for the industry for people who make games to get more for it.

Whether or not it's a lesser product or how much so depends entirely on your perspective. If it is worse off, how much are you okay giving up? For some, giving up those Steam offerings is an easy choice if it means the creators are paid more, or they might not consider them meaningful.

So for you to imply to others that "We as customers shouldn't worry about that fee" is what's truly silly. Instead speak on what you value.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,466
The Epic Store split is better for the industry. That's the perspective of most who are supporting the store for that reason I'd imagine, that's also part of the reasoning behind Epic's decision. It's better and healthier for the industry for people who make games to get more for it.

Whether or not it's a lesser product or how much so depends entirely on your perspective. If it is worse off, how much are you okay giving up? For some, giving up those Steam offerings is an easy choice if it means the creators are paid more, or they might not consider them meaningful.

So for you to imply to others that "We as customers shouldn't worry about that fee" is what's truly silly. Instead speak on what you value.
If you truly care the developers get more money, then buy their games from itch.io.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
USA USA USA
The Epic Store split is better for the industry. That's the perspective of most who are supporting the store for that reason I'd imagine, that's also part of the reasoning behind Epic's decision. It's better and healthier for the industry for people who make games to get more for it.

Whether or not it's a lesser product or how much so depends entirely on your perspective. If it is worse off, how much are you okay giving up? For some, giving up those Steam offerings is an easy choice if it means the creators are paid more, or they might not consider them meaningful.

So for you to imply to others that "We as customers shouldn't worry about that fee" is what's truly silly. Instead speak on what you value.
i usually try to buy from humble widget on a devs page

i get a steam key, they get 95% (better than epic)

wow we all win

does the epic store allow developers to produce free keys that they get no cut from like steam

because if not theyre getting a worse deal
 
Mar 1, 2018
312
Itch.io offers a bigger cut in games than epic or steam yet none of these well known pubs and devs went to their store

I wonder why ....
If you truly care the developers get more money, then buy their games from itch.io.
Itch.io offers a bigger cut in games than epic or steam yet none of these well known pubs and devs went to their store

I wonder why ....
As I spoke on, it's about a balance of how much you care along with what you're willing to give up

From the developers perspective it's also a cost-benefit thing, might get a bigger cut of a way smaller audience if you're on a less-visible store, and a guaranteed paycheck is also nice. I have no issue with "moneyhatting" it's not a bad word.

I was offering a perspective on why saying we shouldn't worry about the fee developers get is weird. I usually buy games wherever they are cheapest, but I understand why someone would care how much the people who make the games get, and how they could value it over steam's offerings, AND understand that they might also have other reasons to get it from Epic's store instead of another where they get a bigger cut.

Again, it is weird to say if you truly care about how much they get then you'd get it from itch.io you can care about it to different degrees and also have other things factor in. It's like you're saying if you don't get it from there then you can't possibly care about their well-being.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,459
Omni
The Epic Store split is better for the industry. That's the perspective of most who are supporting the store for that reason I'd imagine, that's also part of the reasoning behind Epic's decision. It's better and healthier for the industry for people who make games to get more for it.
False

Discord split is better for the industry yet we aren’t seeing as much activity as epic store , I guess devs don’t like money @[email protected]
 
Jun 7, 2018
787
The Epic Store split is better for the industry. That's the perspective of most who are supporting the store for that reason I'd imagine, that's also part of the reasoning behind Epic's decision. It's better and healthier for the industry for people who make games to get more for it.

Whether or not it's a lesser product or how much so depends entirely on your perspective. If it is worse off, how much are you okay giving up? For some, giving up those Steam offerings is an easy choice if it means the creators are paid more, or they might not consider them meaningful.

So for you to imply to others that "We as customers shouldn't worry about that fee" is what's truly silly. Instead speak on what you value.
Excuse me if I don't believe for a second that what Epic is doing is out of pure benevolence and not leveraging their Fortnite coffers to torpedo a competitor and to catapult themselves into the lead.

Steam and Valve allow developers to distribute Steam keys on the developer websites with 100% dev revenue, that's a way way better deal than what Epic is doing.