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The Division 2 Is Ditching Steam For The Epic Games Store On PC [See Threadmarks]

False

Discord split is better for the industry yet we aren’t seeing as much activity as epic store , I guess devs don’t like money @[email protected]
Wait, there's a Discord store?

As a developer I would have more trust in a company like Epic that knows the gaming Industry for decades.

Even a 99% share is useless if nobody knows that the store exists.
 
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Mar 1, 2018
312
Excuse me if I don't believe for a second that what Epic is doing is out of pure benevolence and not leveraging their Fortnite coffers to torpedo a competitor and to catapult themselves into the lead.

Steam and Valve allow developers to distribute Steam keys on the developer websites with 100% dev revenue, that's a way way better deal than what Epic is doing.
I said it factored into their decision.

False

Discord split is better for the industry yet we aren’t seeing as much activity as epic store , I guess devs don’t like money @[email protected]
I said better, not best. Already addressed it, but again, if you don't buy from the place where they get the best split it doesn't all of a sudden mean you don't care. It's about balance.
 

ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,502
United Kingdom
False

Discord split is better for the industry yet we aren’t seeing as much activity as epic store , I guess devs don’t like money @[email protected]
I guess devs don't like putting their game on a store that nobody uses?

Epic Store gives them a better split*, a store that already exclusively houses one of the most popular games in the world and potentially a moneyhat.

I could see Discord hitting two of those but you also have to factor in your decision the fact that nobody knows the store exists. I think this is relevant to a studio deciding how to release their game. I'm sure others will make other choices, there's clearly not a correct answer. I'm sure Steam is more attractive to most even with a worse cut of revenue just because it's the default PC gaming store for a lot of gamers. But, don't forget, the Epic launcher/store is probably the default gaming app for a hell of a lot of gamers too. Imagine how many people have that installed purely for Fortnite and have never made a Steam account.

*not the best, clearly
 
Jun 7, 2018
787
I'm sure Steam is more attractive to most even with a worse cut of revenue just because it's the default PC gaming store for a lot of gamers. But, don't forget, the Epic launcher/store is probably the default gaming app for a hell of a lot of gamers too. Imagine how many people have that installed purely for Fortnite and have never made a Steam account.
Which begs the question how many of those actually browse the Epic store daily to discover games and not just use it as a the Fortnite launcher and nothing more? How many of those millions of Fortnite users are actual customers for the shop? Guess we'll see.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,798
The Epic Store split is better for the industry. That's the perspective of most who are supporting the store for that reason I'd imagine, that's also part of the reasoning behind Epic's decision. It's better and healthier for the industry for people who make games to get more for it.

Whether or not it's a lesser product or how much so depends entirely on your perspective. If it is worse off, how much are you okay giving up? For some, giving up those Steam offerings is an easy choice if it means the creators are paid more, or they might not consider them meaningful.

So for you to imply to others that "We as customers shouldn't worry about that fee" is what's truly silly. Instead speak on what you value.
Saying that it's healthier based on that revenue split ignores other factors that play in, like the userbases on other stores, utilizing multiple userbases by selling in several stores at once (relevant with Epic working for exclusivity instead of being another option), being able to generate and sell Steam keys and sell for a 100% revenue split in other stores, etc.

If Epic compensates for such things, then yes, it can be healthier (when the game sells enough that the increased revenue split actually works in their favors), but asking us customers to take a stance in this issue, when so many factors and numbers are in the dark for us, I'm not buying into it.

The Epic store is so extremely barebones that the only way a game there wouldn't be a lesser product compared to Steam/GOG Galaxy would be if I didn't utilize a single feature beyond install/play on those stores.

How much am I prepared to give up? As long as the games are being sold for essentially the same price, with nothing extra being added for me, and I'm being kept in the dark about the finances behind the game, then nothing. I am a customer on Steam, GOG, Humble Bundle and different crowd funding sites, and very often buys games for the asking price day 1, so I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

But if a game is being sold completely DRM free, then I'm willing to give up both features on the platform and pay extra for that, as long as the platform selling it has the bare essentials, which the Epic Store doesn't have.

And it's also relevant to look at what devs that are behind these games that gets the extra revenue split. When it's either massive AAA publishers like Ubisoft, or indie devs with massive hits behind them, like Team Meat and Supergiant Games, then I'm not going to feel sorry for them and take their side in the battle for higher revenue splits. It would be a different thing for smaller devs really struggling, but not these that have been selected so far.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,790
I guess devs don't like putting their game on a store that nobody uses?

Epic Store gives them a better split*, a store that already exclusively houses one of the most popular games in the world and potentially a moneyhat.

I could see Discord hitting two of those but you also have to factor in your decision the fact that nobody knows the store exists. I think this is relevant to a studio deciding how to release their game. I'm sure others will make other choices, there's clearly not a correct answer. I'm sure Steam is more attractive to most even with a worse cut of revenue just because it's the default PC gaming store for a lot of gamers. But, don't forget, the Epic launcher/store is probably the default gaming app for a hell of a lot of gamers too. Imagine how many people have that installed purely for Fortnite and have never made a Steam account.

*not the best, clearly

Not potentially. They moneyhat.
 

ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,502
United Kingdom
Which begs the question how many of those actually browse the Epic store daily to discover games and not just use it as a the Fortnite launcher and nothing more? How many of those millions of Fortnite users are actual customers for the shop? Guess we'll see.
Yeah that's the great unknown at the moment. It's gonna be a gamble for those first few studios. But they're also presumably in the best position to get better deals out of it while it's a risk too.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,054
Have we had any confirmation that Ubisoft have received payment to use the Epic storefront?
The Division 2 was slated for Steam but removed because of Epic’s sudden involvement. The same Epic that struck deals with indies to delay their games on Steam.
I mean, do you really think this stuff just happens with no monetary incentive?

They’re not going to come out and tell you money exchanged hands.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,429
I seriously doubt Epic paid Ubi anything.
I seriously doubt ubisoft would have made this decision if epic didn't give a bunch of cash.

The Division 2 was slated for Steam but removed because of Epic’s sudden involvement. The same Epic that struck deals with indies to delay their games on Steam.
I mean, do you really think this stuff just happens with no monetary incentive?

They’re not going to come out and tell you money exchanged hands.
Exactly. It's reasonable to believe that when Epic has done the same thing multiple times.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,459
Omni
I seriously doubt Epic paid Ubi anything.
I seriously doubt Ubisoft would release a AAA title on one platform over another on good faith.

If the cut was really a issue, they have their own store and generate their own keys which are on third party sites , in which it would have been better for them to turn into Bethesda or EA

There’s literally no benefit for them to remove a game from one store in favor of another competitor unless they were paid to do so.

If the publisher had the intention to release it on as many platforms to attract as many people to engage with people who exclusively play or buy on one particular store, we would be seeing it on epic, steam and uplay.

Have we had any confirmation that Ubisoft have received payment to use the Epic storefront?
They aren’t gonna disclose a contractual agreement between two groups to the public. It’s worse PR than what is happening lol

Closest you will get is that press release announcement about the game coming to epic instead of steam

You wouldn’t wanna show the Internet your family’s will (if you had one ) , would you?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,466
But, don't forget, the Epic launcher/store is probably the default gaming app for a hell of a lot of gamers too. Imagine how many people have that installed purely for Fortnite and have never made a Steam account.

*not the best, clearly
You have to take something into consideration: Fortnite is a F2P game. You just need to download the launcher, then download the game and you are good to go. If Fortnite Battle Royale had an introductory price, the situation would be completely different.

Epic and many of these developers are taking a gamble to see if these players are willing to buy games in the store. Personally, I doubt it. They may be too invested in Fortnite already to buy another game and others just want to play a free games.

I also find quite interesting the lack of sales data, especially from a guy that used to show how many games were sold in Steam.
 

ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,502
United Kingdom
They aren’t gonna disclose a contractual agreement between two groups to the public. It’s worse PR than what is happening lol

Closest you will get is that press release announcement about the game coming to epic instead of steam

You wouldn’t wanna show the Internet your family’s will (if you had one ) , would you?
I didn't actually think they had (or would), was just double checking because we're talking like it's gospel. Maybe a very well educated guess but was just checking I hadn't missed something.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,459
Omni
They get more people buying directly from Uplay. Alsothe news about the deal is a good promo.
They would have gotten the same publicity if they went EA’s route and the full 100% rather than a 88% cut


No way in hell they threw a bone to epic for free lol

I didn't actually think they had (or would), was just double checking because we're talking like it's gospel. Maybe a very well educated guess but was just checking I hadn't missed something.
No business would make a change like that without any compensation - it’s the only logical explanation , this isn’t a conspiracy against the top player in the pc market or anything lol
 
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ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,502
United Kingdom
You have to take something into consideration: Fortnite is a F2P game. You just need to download the launcher, then download the game and you are good to go. If Fortnite Battle Royale had an introductory price, the situation would be completely different.

Epic and many of these developers are taking a gamble to see if these players are willing to buy games in the store. Personally, I doubt it. They may be too invested in Fortnite already to buy another game and others just want to play a free games.

I also find quite interesting the lack of sales data, especially from a guy that used to show how many games were sold in Steam.
Of course it's a free game. But it's also a game that millions of people throw money at and their card details need to be in the store already for that to happen. In the 'top downloads of 2018' chart that PSN put out Fortnite had 8 entries in the top 20 DLCs of the year. They had positions 1-7. That's a lot of Fortnite DLC purchases. I can only assume it's similar on PC. It's a free game but let's not pretend that everyone on PC is downloading it and then never using the Epic store. Fortnite prints money. People are already using the Epic store with their Epic accounts in droves.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,466
Of course it's a free game. But it's also a game that millions of people throw money at and their card details need to be in the store already for that to happen. In the 'top downloads of 2018' chart that PSN put out Fortnite had 8 entries in the top 20 DLCs of the year. They had positions 1-7. That's a lot of Fortnite DLC purchases. I can only assume it's similar on PC. It's a free game but let's not pretend that everyone on PC is downloading it and then never using the Epic store. Fortnite prints money. People are already using the Epic store with their Epic accounts in droves.
Last I remember on PC, microtransactions were inside the game, not in the store.

Time will tell if this move will work or not.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,087
Belgium
Because itch.io is more known as being an indie game store rather than the store that Fortnite is exclusively on? I guess they're getting a better cut and putting their game on a store that millions of people already use.
You mean a launcher that millions of people already use for a free to play game? Ubisofts games have been VERY successful on Steam. I really doubt that Ubisoft expects to earn more money on Epic's Store than on Steam.

It's very, very likely that Epic paid them to dump Steam in favor of Epic's Launcher. The fact that Epic and Ubisoft made a deal for several upcoming games as well, may indicate that Epic paid them a HUGE sum of money.

But despite that huge moneyhat AND the lower royalties, The Division 2 is still €59.99 on Epic's Store. It's f*cking sad...
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,466
You mean a launcher that millions of people already use for a free to play game? Ubisofts games have been VERY successful on Steam. I really doubt that Ubisoft expects to earn more money on Epic's Store than on Steam.

It's very, very likely that Epic paid them to dump Steam in favor of Epic's Launcher. The fact that Epic and Ubisoft made a deal for several upcoming games as well, may indicate that Epic paid them a HUGE sum of money.

But despite that huge moneyhat AND the lower royalties, The Division 2 is still €59.99 on Epic's Store. It's f*cking sad...
Worst is that in some countries like Argentina or Mexico, it is even more expensive than in the US.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,459
Omni
Of course it's a free game. But it's also a game that millions of people throw money at and their card details need to be in the store already for that to happen. In the 'top downloads of 2018' chart that PSN put out Fortnite had 8 entries in the top 20 DLCs of the year. They had positions 1-7. That's a lot of Fortnite DLC purchases. I can only assume it's similar on PC. It's a free game but let's not pretend that everyone on PC is downloading it and then never using the Epic store. Fortnite prints money. People are already using the Epic store with their Epic accounts in droves.
If you are playing fortnite and investing money on the microtransactions , I highly doubt those same people will invest on other games specifically single player ones
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,181
The only confirmation we ever got about payment was for Satisfactory.


If you follow the trail off of this game alone it's not hard to figure out what is happening.

Edit: Guess the Youtube time stamp doesn't work with the media function here on reset era so I removed the media link. Click here:

https://youtu.be/7V4UPiBOshY?t=90

My only other commentary is if Epic is going to start buying up all these exclusives, at the very least they can get some keys generated for sites like Green Man Gaming and Fanatical. Why even use the epic store for The Division 2 when you can buy a key cheaper for uplay on green man gaming.

I personally buy a decent amount of steam keys from sites like green man gaming and fanatical because I can pre order a game for 45 to 47 dollars. Resident Evil 2 remake is 45 dollars right now on green man gaming for a steam key. I'd definitely buy less games at 60 dollars.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
7,459
Omni
If epic wants to money hat games, instead of moneyhatting indie games and multiplat titles, they should moneyhat first party console published titles for an example like with journey

It would be awesome and I would be all up for it lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,888
False

Discord split is better for the industry yet we aren’t seeing as much activity as epic store , I guess devs don’t like money @[email protected]
EA offers (or at least used to offer) 0% for 90 days years ago and we didn't see big movement there either


Epic's refund policy was changed to match Steam's (as of 1/9/2019).

https://epicgames.com/site/en-US/store-refund-policy



It is kinda funny how everyone says Epic is good for competition because that will fix Steam, but it seems like Steam is fixing Epic.
One details is, Epic doesn't give refunds for DLC or non-consumed microtransactions (that isn't bundled with game) unlike Steam.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,879
People really think UbiSoft would give up millions of Steam sales without compensation? I don’t know how you could arrive at that conclusion.
I don't think you've read any of the thread if you believe this.

A) They're not losing millions of sales. The number of people that REFUSE to buy anything not on steam is miniscule and only getting smaller over time, not bigger.
B) They don't require 'compensation' in the sense you're trying to paint it, they get flatly more money on the Epic store. It's not a moneyhat, it's a business decision based on Epic offering them more than Steam.

Now that Epic is putting in 2 of the reasons everyone in this thread crying keeps bringing up for why their store sucks and they will ONLY buy steam products (even people that don't live in regions that need regional pricing), the reasons to remain only with steam are slowly shrinking to "Because I'm a PC gamer that wants to be a console warrior at heart" and that's gonna be largely it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,438
Now that Epic is putting in 2 of the reasons everyone in this thread crying keeps bringing up for why their store sucks and they will ONLY buy steam products (even people that don't live in regions that need regional pricing), the reasons to remain only with steam are slowly shrinking to "Because I'm a PC gamer that wants to be a console warrior at heart" and that's gonna be largely it.


10/10 I legitimately laughed
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,429
I don't think you've read any of the thread if you believe this.

A) They're not losing millions of sales. The number of people that REFUSE to buy anything not on steam is miniscule and only getting smaller over time, not bigger.
B) They don't require 'compensation' in the sense you're trying to paint it, they get flatly more money on the Epic store. It's not a moneyhat, it's a business decision based on Epic offering them more than Steam.

Now that Epic is putting in 2 of the reasons everyone in this thread crying keeps bringing up for why their store sucks and they will ONLY buy steam products (even people that don't live in regions that need regional pricing), the reasons to remain only with steam are slowly shrinking to "Because I'm a PC gamer that wants to be a console warrior at heart" and that's gonna be largely it.
You have no idea what your talking about and if you honestly believe that Epic is not giving Ubisoft some extra money for exclusivity than you are naive or delusional or both especially since there's proof it has happened multiple times in the last month. The number of people buying on the epic store I bet you is tiny compared to buying it on steam and I have no doubt in my mind that will continue.
 
Nov 3, 2017
3,271
I don't think you've read any of the thread if you believe this.

A) They're not losing millions of sales. The number of people that REFUSE to buy anything not on steam is miniscule and only getting smaller over time, not bigger.
B) They don't require 'compensation' in the sense you're trying to paint it, they get flatly more money on the Epic store. It's not a moneyhat, it's a business decision based on Epic offering them more than Steam.

Now that Epic is putting in 2 of the reasons everyone in this thread crying keeps bringing up for why their store sucks and they will ONLY buy steam products (even people that don't live in regions that need regional pricing), the reasons to remain only with steam are slowly shrinking to "Because I'm a PC gamer that wants to be a console warrior at heart" and that's gonna be largely it.
You underestimate the amount of people that buy games because they are on sale, on the front page, or just one click away from an impulse purchase while you are already in the launcher.

Sales: - Epic already said, they are not big on Sales and you must first open the EGS to go to the sale.
Front Page: - if you don't open the epic launcher, you don't see the front page and you don't see that game xyz is out now or be reminded that it came out 3 months ago and you wanted to try it out.
Impulse purchases: You can't impulse buy if you are not in the launcher.

Yes, many many people will buy the game regardless, but don't underestimate the tens of thousands and in the case of big publishers, the hundreds of thousands of impulse buyers/late buyers/sale buyers.
Also: don't underestimate the reluctance of people to add purchase information to yet another storefront. Do you know how many people still only buy games through the adding of Steam gift-cards? PSN and xbox-live gift-cards are always bestsellers on Amazon. If the EGS doesn't have gift-cards, they lose a bunch of customers who only buy games through gift cards (especially in specific countries outside US/EU, where game purchases through gift cards are the norm)


BTW: Do Fortnite players even see the front page of the EGS when they start the game?
 

ghostcrew

Spooky
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,502
United Kingdom
Nov 3, 2017
3,271
To be fair the Epic store only has about 12 games on it so that sounds perfect ;)
That's lifetime ownership. So, we are looking at 1 to 2 games a year. ;)

Edit: If I was Ubi and Epic had me convinced on possible Fortnite Audience engagement, I would have included a penalty payment in the contract if the numbers were below the minimum amount of what Epic convinced me would be guaranteed buyers. (And a bonus payment if it was above the highest number)
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,045
Toronto
I've never played the first game, but since it was available on uplay and steam, was there any in-game global friends-list? (e.g, you can play with the people on the same platform on PC regardless of where you got the game right?)


Just wondering because I don't have anyone on the Epic Games launcher. If friends buy it on uplay will I be able to play with them and or add them to an in-game friends list (if there is one)?
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,526
I seriously doubt Epic paid Ubi anything.
There's no way Unisoft didn't receive a good chunk of cash to keep the game away from Steam.

I didn't actually think they had (or would), was just double checking because we're talking like it's gospel. Maybe a very well educated guess but was just checking I hadn't missed something.
Yeah, just an educated guess, no official confirmation. Epic said they'll be making paid exclusivity deals, Ubisoft presomably likes money, people put two and two together.

Epic Games saving Pc gaming from the tyrannical monopoly by Valve.
Epic rebels vs Darth Gaben.
 

Valdega

Banned
Member
Sep 7, 2018
1,609
I don't think you've read any of the thread if you believe this.

A) They're not losing millions of sales. The number of people that REFUSE to buy anything not on steam is miniscule and only getting smaller over time, not bigger.
B) They don't require 'compensation' in the sense you're trying to paint it, they get flatly more money on the Epic store. It's not a moneyhat, it's a business decision based on Epic offering them more than Steam.

Now that Epic is putting in 2 of the reasons everyone in this thread crying keeps bringing up for why their store sucks and they will ONLY buy steam products (even people that don't live in regions that need regional pricing), the reasons to remain only with steam are slowly shrinking to "Because I'm a PC gamer that wants to be a console warrior at heart" and that's gonna be largely it.
Your argument has a pretty significant flaw. If Ubisoft didn't care about Steam's sales and only cared about getting the maximum cut, THEY WOULD JUST SELL THEIR GAMES EXCLUSIVELY ON UPLAY. Yes, Uplay, their own distribution platform where they make 100% profit from each sale. The only reason Ubisoft would remove Division 2 from Steam instead of simply offering it on both Steam and Epic is if Epic gave them a sizable bribe to remove the game from Steam. Rest assured, just like all of the other Epic "exclusives," Division 2 will be released on Steam exactly one year after it launches on the Epic Store.

I swear, the anti-Steam/pro-Epic pundits don't even try.